76 replies to this topic

[neuropill]

Yes I know all of that in great detail(I study drugs and pharmacology in my free time), I was just wondering what your proposed purpose for it was and you explained it great for others who may not know about all of those things and now that I know your reasoning I can partially agree. It is just very hard to know what this thread is about when there wasn't as far as I read a real in depth description of what effects, at what time scale, we are even trying to reverse.... my point was that if one quits smoking weed and then months later(for some reason, I wouldn't know get why) wants to "reset" their receptors with an inverse agonist or antagonist, while I know it works sometimes to stop protracted benzodiazepine withdrawal using flumazenil that is a whole different ball game(and like I said it isn't always effective and sometimes detrimental. also I don't believe it is even known if the mechanism of it's success is "resetting" the receptors, which is a vague term which I don't quite understand). Yes you can upregulate receptors and downregulate them, but what does the term "resetting" them mean? Sorry, I suppose I was too vague before.

Also, fun fact: not all antagonists will cause upregulation, in fact some cause downregulation the same as agonists. I believe an example of this is the 5ht2a/c receptors, but my memory is hazy.

No not all antagonists do cause upregulation but the focus of my discussion was aimed the one's I've used and the ones research supports. No need to extrapolate.

Resetting means returning them to a state prior to agonist induced down-regulation or closer to it.

By all means don't take my subjective experiences and the available research alone. This is my experience and that of many others but it may not work for everyone and/or not everyone responses to every drug. I suggest you research it and try it yourself if it suits you.

The main focus of this thread is undoing the negative effects that cannabis can have on some users on memory with a supplement. I believe this can be possible but hard to directly effect the cause without some degree of cannabinoid receptor antagonist which is proven to enhance memory via it's reverse effects on the cb receptor.


Behav Pharmacol. 2007 Sep;18(5-6):571-80.
Short-term memory is modulated by the spontaneous release of endocannabinoids: evidence from hippocampal population codes.

Deadwyler SA, Goonawardena AV, Hampson RE.

Source

Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Wake Forest University Health Sciences, Winston-Salem, North Carolina 27157-1083, USA. sdeadwy@wfubmc.edu

Abstract

Population codes derived from ensembles of hippocampal neurons were assessed to determine whether endocannabinoids were active when rats performed a delayed-nonmatch-to-sample (DNMS) short-term memory task. Multivariate discriminant analyses of the firing patterns of ensembles of CA1 and CA3 hippocampal neurons extracted representations of information encoded at the time of the sample response (SmR codes) during individual DNMS trials. The 'strength' or distinctiveness of trial-specific SmR codes in normal sessions was compared with sessions in which either rimonabant, the well-characterized cannabinoid CB1 receptor antagonist, or WIN 55212-2 (WIN-2), a cannabinoid CB1 receptor agonist, were administered. Results show that performance on trials with delay intervals longer than 10 s was facilitated by rimonabant (2.0 mg/kg) owing to a significantly increased frequency of trials with stronger SmR codes. In contrast, WIN-2 (0.35 mg/kg) suppressed the strength of SmR codes necessary to perform trials with delays greater than 10 s. The positive influence of rimonabant on performance indicated that the action of endocannabinoids was to reduce SmR code strength, resulting in trials that were at risk for errors if the delay exceeded 10 s. Thus endocannabinoids, like exogenously administered cannabinoids, reduced hippocampal encoding necessary to perform long-delay trials. The findings therefore indicate a direct relationship between the actions of endocannabinoids on hippocampal processes and the ability to encode information into short-term memory. PMID: 17762525

Edited by neuropill, 14 October 2012 - 05:50 AM.

[golden1]

Okay, I was just curious if resetting was being used as a scientific term meaning something like the receptors are stuck downregulated like some people believe is the cause of protracted benzodiazepine withdrawal, thats all.

The main focus of this thread is undoing the negative effects that cannabis can have on some users on memory with a supplement.

negative effects during what time frame? I find that rather important in order to understand this whole thread. I'm quite aware the thread is about memory though...haha

BTW, I was just adding to the knowledge base by saying not all antagonists upregulate some even DOWNREGULATE, an interesting thing to know a long with the information you gave everyone.

And yes, I know rimonabant can have positive effects on memory, it is on the wikipedia page :P.

I've just never experienced a need to reverse the effects of weed.. on any timescale(because they were never at all long lasting or horrible unless I smoked a highly recreational dose, which alcohol would impair my memory way worse..and I don't expect perfect memory on a highly recreational dose of a drug), so it's hard for me to understand and I'm trying to figure out what you all are trying to fix, which is why I was curious what time scale we were talking about: during the high, right afterwards, a day or two after, or months after, do you see how the thread confused me about that?

Cannabinoid receptors up-regulate rather fast regardless, and it isn't even an issue for me when I smoke as little amount of material as possible.. so I can't relate to it being an issue really which I believe is part of the problem of me understanding what exactly other people's issues with it regarding memory were.

Edited by golden1, 14 October 2012 - 06:19 AM.

[neuropill]

Okay, I was just curious if resetting was being used as a scientific term meaning something like the receptors are stuck downregulated like some people believe is the cause of protracted benzodiazepine withdrawal, thats all.

The main focus of this thread is undoing the negative effects that cannabis can have on some users on memory with a supplement.

negative effects during what time frame? I find that rather important in order to understand this whole thread. I'm quite aware the thread is about memory though...haha

BTW, I was just adding to the knowledge base by saying not all antagonists upregulate some even DOWNREGULATE, an interesting thing to know a long with the information you gave everyone.

And yes, I know rimonabant can have positive effects on memory, it is on the wikipedia page :P.

I've just never experienced a need to reverse the effects of weed.. on any timescale(because they were never at all long lasting or horrible unless I smoked a highly recreational dose, which alcohol would impair my memory way worse..and I don't expect perfect memory on a highly recreational dose of a drug), so it's hard for me to understand and I'm trying to figure out what you all are trying to fix, which is why I was curious what time scale we were talking about: during the high, right afterwards, a day or two after, or months after, do you see how the thread confused me about that?

Cannabinoid receptors up-regulate rather fast regardless, and it isn't even an issue for me when I smoke as little amount of material as possible.. so I can't relate to it being an issue really which I believe is part of the problem of me understanding what exactly other people's issues with it regarding memory were.

It has not been given a scientific name yet but I'm sure in time it will when new drugs are created to reverse the receptor alterations created by agonists (or antagonists).

Hopefully it will become more mainstream especially with those negatively effected by their SSRI use suffering from ssri brain zaps now using an SSRE like tianeptine to undo the effects.

Hmm well for me I want to be able to undo any possible negative side effects from cannabis or it's analogs both in the short and long term. I use it for a spinal condition along with kratom but do not want to develop any tolerance or negative side effects. Taking it with rimonbant at least for me in very low doses seems to prevents any increase in dosage and higher doses I use by itself to ensure my receptors have been reset as it were. Doing this over time I've reduced my initial dosage and seem to be fine.

I don't believe everyone's cannabinoid receptors always return to normal after short or long term usage hence tolerance or increased side effects (memory, etc) are noticed. If you have never noticed any impairment you've got some nice cannabinoid receptors perhaps you should patent them. So you don't get withdrawal effects?

Edited by neuropill, 14 October 2012 - 06:51 AM.

[golden1]

I don't, no. Not when I smoke responsibly, but you may have to smoke more for pain relieving effects than I do for enhanced creativity and such(as I stated before I smoke a very very small amount at once and am completely content with the high). This method of smoking leaves me with no negative effects and is probably equivalent to taking a higher dose with rimonbant(in my situation, maybe not for pain management). I notice impairment when I smoke a lot with friends occasionally, but like I said it's completely expected and I still don't get tolerance from one session of smoking a lot. So, no I don't get withdrawal effects at all(except smoking a lot daily,but I am over that since it's not needed for me).

I'm glad it works in your position and I understand how it could be helpful if one needed to smoke larger amounts to reduce pain, I hope you recover well(or at the very least this eases the pain efficiently)

Edited by golden1, 14 October 2012 - 07:01 AM.

[neuropill]

I don't, no. Not when I smoke responsibly, but you may have to smoke more for pain relieving effects than I do for enhanced creativity and such(as I stated before I smoke a very very small amount at once and am completely content with the high). This method of smoking leaves me with no negative effects and is probably equivalent to taking a higher dose with rimonbant. I notice impairment when I smoke a lot with friends occasionally, but like I said it's completely expected and I still don't get tolerance from one session of smoking a lot. So, no I don't get withdrawal effects at all.

I'm glad it works in your position and I understand how it could be helpful if one needed to smoke larger amounts to reduce pain, I hope you recover well

I actually don't use too much of it or very often but I prefer to be safe than sorry. Thank you.


I am surprised though as most people I know who use it for recreation have noticed some impaired memory or deal with some degree of withdrawal effects. But with the unique blend of cannabinoids and a person's neurochem everyone's responses are abit different. Perhaps some people reset their receptors faster or more fully than others during exposure to certain compounds.

[golden1]

The doses I use are more nootropic, its not like I get a really nice body high or even slowed thinking/etc, there is a warm head euphoria, but it is mainly enhancement of senses and my creative thinking.. much like aniracetam actually. Simply put I feel mostly normal but with the enhanced mental effects, if that gives an idea of the amount I'm talking about. I still feel like I'm high, and this high becomes the normal high I expect which my guess is what makes it still satisfying. Honestly I used to smoke a lot all the time(and indeed I experienced annoying withdrawal), but my dad, who smoked for 30 something years, at one time told me the best way was to smoke the smallest amount possible and you'd still get all the positive mental effects without wasting weed or getting a high tolerance. It may be that I smoked so often prior that in the end my cannabinoid system became stronger(in some way) or more sensitive to lower doses,, or it could be that I let my tolerance drop to zero and then started with the smallest amount that had the mental positives I enjoy weed for. I will also say I am sensitive to many drugs, so this very well could extend to weed. (for example, I feel piracetam obviously and aniracetam even has what I'd say even feels like a head high with extreme increases in my musical skill and appreciation, it also drastically improves the aesthetics of things in my vision. I also need less amphetamine than most people, less caffeine, less alcohol, less ketamine, the only exception I can think of is psychedelics where I take normal doses.. but psychedelic effects are sort of hard to quantify in intensity so I'm not sure.) Let me note, I don't take any of these regularly... hahah, just thought it would be relevant to mention I do respond to lower doses of most drugs(I still have tried and use higher doses sometimes and my doses aren't that much smaller but I have noticed this almost across the board)... whether it is a psychological thing or not I don't know.

Edited by golden1, 14 October 2012 - 07:35 AM.

[kevinseven11]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/14668977
Cannabis is a pure nootropic. Whilst on it, you don't learn things you usualy do though.

Edited by kevinseven11, 16 October 2012 - 11:16 PM.

[Spectre]

Buprenorphine/suboxone will bring your memory back instantly. It's a kappa opioid receptor blocker, I theorize that long-term use of cannabis subtly targets this receptor system and can be one of the factors that leads to impaired memory.

[Absent]

I used to be an avid smoker and it caused me to nearly drop out of highschool. Since my buddies sold, we collectively smoked nearly an ounce a day... man did that make me super lazy and weak willed over time.

Since then I took a year off and did a lot of mental training to get my brain back in top condition.

When you're recovering from long-term Marijuana use you have to take a few things into account...

-First you have to stop smoking! Stop! Just stop!
-THC and other Cannabinoids inhibit the release of Acetylcholine, impairing memory gradually over time, making it weaker.
-To get it back you have to do 2 things:
--Train your memory, the obvious one. Nobody said it will be easy. You essentially have to relearn how to remember depending on the depth of detail, or at least I did.
--Use a supplement to boost your progress WHILE practicing your memory techniques.

No supplement alone is going to give you perfect memory. You have to do some bit of work. Taking energizing or memory aiding supplements such as various Racetams will allow you to enter a boosted memory state. While you're in this boosted memory state you actually have to practice the act of remembering! Maybe doing school work, or reading books, or something along those lines.

What will happen is by doing the act of remembering while in this boosted state, the mind will send the electrical surges through the neurons that enable that hightened memory state with the aid of the supplement. When neurons are put to use like this, they get stronger, and build. Over time, you wont need the racetam to access that enhanced memory state, rather, that previously 'enhanced memory state' will be your default. You basically repeat the cycle here.

Use a supplement to get into a boosted memory state, PRACTICE the art of remembering & recalling things. That boosted memory state will become your default state after some practice. Then the next time you take the supplement you will go into an even stronger memory state, which then you will normalize that. Etc. You essentially never have to go stop taking the booster. This can be done with out supplements but the idea is that the supplement will give you a HEALTHY boost above your normal level, you normalize that, and the supplement will allow you to go to an even higher level.

If you take memory boosting supplements but don't actually practice your memory then your memory isn't likely to grow much. Essentially the bigger the boost the supplement/racetam gives you, the greater the recovery/learning curve.

Do memory exercises that involve recalling details. Doing this method you can train your memory to reach great heights. This can also be done with just about any mental skill, but memory is one of my favorites. Maybe read a sentence in a book, close your eyes and try to remember it exactly a few times... Once you can do that easily, try for paragraphs, or try pictures, anything like that.


Most importantly... DON'T SMOKE. I mean smoke if you want to but if you do your learning speed is going to be severely impaired, trust me.

Another key thing.... use a healthy supplement. Things like adderal are going to be counter productive due to their mechanism, they leech your dopamine levels on the come down and that will make it even harder to focus when you get off it.

Edited by Siro, 17 October 2012 - 10:32 PM.

[golden1]

Your experience doesn't apply to everyone, sorry :|

[jayfoxpox]

so because you got negative effects from smoking like half an ounce a day since u were a kid you got messed up and so everyone shouldn't touch weed. Gotcha

[Absent]

I clearly said smoke if it's what you want. All of my friends are smokers. I had to give it up, it simply wasn't for me, and did me more harm than good. So as the original poster asked for a way to reverse the negative memory effects, I posed a solution that works for me. It doesn't mean everyone has to follow my advice unless that is what they want.

-Siro

[golden1]

you said, "Most importantly... DON'T SMOKE. I mean smoke if you want to but if you do your learning speed is going to be severely impaired, trust me."

That is the issue that we had... I believe.

[Absent]

Compounds in cannabis inhibit the release of acetylcholine on activating neurons(even after the high is worn off and the inert chemicals are floating around in the body lodging themselves inside of fat cells), limiting neuronal expansion. This effect can persist for days up to a month after smoking, depending on the amount.

This is information I have to know being a medical grower, and I can attest to the affect personally from being high for so much of my child hood. Explain the logic in how memory is going to be repaired by a supplement or training when the release of the Neurotransmitter that learning is largely dependent on is being inhibited. In fact, the more effort that goes into learning, the more acetylcholine will try to be released, and as a result of the inhibitors, the more will be inhibited.

Imagine trying to push a boulder up a hill but the harder you push the heavier it gets. You still can move upward with it, but the more effort you put into it the heavier the boulder becomes and the slower you move.

One possible way I know of counteracting this annoying effect that can persist for many days after the high is worn off and the cannabinoid compounds are still floating around in the body, is to take a large dosage of choline. Though, this has the downside of being pro-depressive, so there's that to deal with.

-Siro

Edited by Siro, 18 October 2012 - 04:34 AM.

[golden1]

I guess I'll state my cure again,
Moderation.

It's that you/most people were smoking too much weed. I said it so many times in this thread, people just smoke WAY too much. It's not going to severely impair learning unless you are abusing it... or you are a special case. The easiest way to reverse the negatives, besides the obvious..stop smoking..is to smoke very little at a time. It works, trust me. When you abuse anything it's going to cause negatives, it doesn't mean that you have to stop completely or your learning/etc will be impaired. Don't be offended by my use of the word abuse because almost everyone ends up smoking too much weed and don't realize the simple solution is just to smoke the smallest amount where you still get positive effects. For me, that is such a small small amount compared to what normal people smoke, you have to let your tolerance fall obviously, but once it does it doesn't even really rise on such a small amount.

Most people when I show them how little I can get positive effects from don't believe me, but it does in fact work. I too used to smoke a lot of weed, heck every day, I know the memory/learning problems you are talking about and if you just smoke the bare minimum they disappear. I can smoke 1-2 times a day like this and not only are the cognitive effects gone(for example, you no longer lose your train of thought when lost deep in thought, it helps me focus, I notice zero learning impairment, etc) in fact I almost feel sober, but with the creative thinking and reasoning, and perception effects still there. I feel like a broken record, but I think this information is kind of important to the topic and it keeps getting passed by.


Edit: it's like taking 5grams of choline and getting negative effects and saying "no, don't take any choline or you will have these symptoms: [brain fog, whatever]," when all you have to do is take much less.

Edited by golden1, 18 October 2012 - 05:52 AM.

[jayfoxpox]

anyways , I've been looking up 5-htp and it seems like if u take it before getting high it prevents the inhibition of working memory. But I can't find any studies except people in forums saying this is so according to a study. I read it also enhances the high so i'm gonna try it out myself .

[kevinseven11]

Compounds in cannabis inhibit the release of acetylcholine.
Alot of these effects are mediated through delta opioid receptors. It works as if opioid receptors and cannabinoid receptors work hand in hand, and without each other their effect is lowered dramatically. If you block the problem receptors, the problems diminishes. The solution we are here to find is a supplement we can take for after our high is over so we can operate at 100% 2 hours after a dose. Small amounts of cannabis equivalent to a buzz and less seem to increase brain levels of serotonin(perhaps just CBD's effects). Cannabis seems to lower cAMP too, but few users report worsened long term memory. Perhaps cAMP downregulation is only after repeated chronic use, as the study on animals used.

Cannabis isn't good for studying unless you use its gaba/adrenaline properties to focus. It is good for creative writing and thinking, that is indisputable. I have come up with a compound that should work very well with ceasing short term memory effects from residual thc(which can persist and have effects for up to 3 days in chronic doses).

Edited by kevinseven11, 22 October 2012 - 10:43 PM.

[noopeptisgood]

Good posting, Siro. I think you've described THE way to utilize nootropics that most of us miss. I believe that's referred to as long-term potentiation.

[noema]

Siro I found your post extremely valuable, thanks!

[kevinseven11]

Siro, this is a good idea but it simply isn't true. THC inhibits the release AND break down of Choline. Choline barely has anything to do with it.

[gamesguru]

"Guys. Cannabis. Lab rats. Memory impairment. Choline interaction! It has to be the cannabis interacting with and inhibiting the acetylcholine!!!! There's no other conceivable explanation for why this plant should impair the memory of lab rats and humans alike."

Quite appropriate is the following quote:

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." ~Einstein

Edited by dasheenster, 25 November 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[kevinseven11]

Studies have shown gaba is why. When we give rats gaba antagonists, they act as if they havn't taken marijuana. My formula includes a gaba antagonist. Choline isn't a big reason because thc also inhibits its breakdown so it balances itself out.

[medievil]

Subject is relevant to my interests as ill be experimenting with my cannabinoids soon, im thinking that a strong racetam like nefiracetam will do the trick, acts on acetylcholine, very pro glutaminergic so wipes out that anti glutamate effect too hopefully. Perhaps cannabinoids will make me lazy not sure but my stims may counteract that.

Rimonabant was discontinued though for side effects. If only we had access to it!

I do think it's a novel idea to create the best natural product for effecting post cannabis usage but some use of an antagonist may be needed at some point to fully or truly reset the receptor.

Post cannabis usage? Could you elaborate more?

The effects and degree of cannabis's changes to receptors is due to and varies as it's mixture of different cannabinoids (mostly agonists) and naturally occurring cannabinoid antagonist(s) (Tetrahydrocannabivarin, etc). So tolerance and withdraw intensity varies on those factors (well and consumption, genetics, etc).

Agonists like thc downregulate CB receptors while antagonists like rimonabant upregulate CB receptors. If dosed properly during or after cannabis or related usage it can help to a degree with tolerance/withdrawal issues and with reversing some of the effects of thc. This can be especially important for memory. (https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/17762525).

Here's an interesting page on CB receptors including some animation.

http://www.gwpharm.c...-of-action.aspx

Flumazenil's another interesting antagonist but for benzos (http://www.bcnc.org.uk/flumazenil.html).

Is this site legal in the US?? If so GREAT find neuropill!
The side effects were depression.

Rimonabant was discontinued though for side effects. If only we had access to it!

I believe it was for other reasons than side effects but that's what they used as an excuse to remove it from the main approved pharmaceutical market. It works great for alot of uses (weight loss, nicotine cessation, resetting cannabinoid receptors and helping prevent tolerance issues, etc). People who have depression or at risk should avoid or use it carefully as it may make it worse but this varies on the person as my friend uses it and it has not worsen his depression but reduced his body fat percentage.

It's currently available through research chemical labs that tend to focus on bodybuilders needs. Here's one:

https://www.iron-dra...?products_id=85

I do think it's a novel idea to create the best natural product for effecting post cannabis usage but some use of an antagonist may be needed at some point to fully or truly reset the receptor.

I don't get it. Do we now assume all receptors need an antagonist to "reset" them if you've agonized them, do you mean while one is high, or do you mean to faster counter the tolerance effects after the high has worn off which leave completely by themselves anyway(even with the highest tolerance within a week)? Please don't say #1 unless you have evidence to back it up... if you mean #3 then sure, if you smoke A LOT of weed I guess it could be useful(if it has been shown that an inverse agonist reduces tolerance). Personally an inverse agonist @ the CB receptors sounds like the shittiest thing ever, I guess I'll look up reviews to see what people say it feels like... lol. Either way, good find. I like to see these drugs available to try at the very least.

If you take an agonist you will generally increase receptor activity while your on it until down-regulation occurs then withdrawal effects happens in varying degrees occurs. Taking an antagonist has the opposite effect (or neutral) on the receptors generally changing their state and causes up-regulation. There's various research on pubmed you can look into but for obvious reasons no one's done a direct study on cannabis because they can't get funding for stuff like that.

My friend uses low dose Rimonabant and Memantine for preventing tolerance issues from cannabis and it works great according to him.

I've used Rimonabant for reversing the effects of short term usage of cannabis (Sativex) or nabilone when I use it so my receptors don't get too down-regulated. Taking high doses however will block or reverse any cannabis effects so low doses are required to make this work during usage.

I also use naltrexone successfully for preventing tolerance issues with Kratom extracts.

I should have some feedback soon on someone who had a bad experience with K2 who's going to try Rimonabant to help reset their receptors to deal with some cognitive impairment they have noticed. Should be interesting.

Ultra low dose rimonabant coadministered with a canabinoid will prevent tolerance without affecting the main effects simular to ultra low dose naltrexone.

[kevinseven11]

Ive tried piracetam, it helps but only the same amount as if i was baseline. The problem with glutamatic promoters are that they degrade into gaba. We must block gaba if we want to prevent the effects. A selective gaba decreaser is optimal.

[stablemind]

Do you guys think it's effects on GABA has any effect on memory impairment? DHM (Dihydromyricetin) seems to counter Alcohol's cognitive impairing effects through GABA Antagonism, so maybe it may help with Marijuana as well.

Edited by stablemind, 01 December 2012 - 12:19 AM.

[kevinseven11]

On my site there is a link to a study that says that ive also said many times too. Dihydromyricetin is the best candidate for gaba antagonism. There are others but they are not so safe.

[RS3RS]

All of the studies I've read show cannabis inhibits the release of GABA, and that could possibly be the source of the anxiogenic / "paranoia" effects. If that's the case, what's the point of a GABA antagonist?

[medievil]

All of the studies I've read show cannabis inhibits the release of GABA, and that could possibly be the source of the anxiogenic / "paranoia" effects. If that's the case, what's the point of a GABA antagonist?

SSRI's are known to block or reduce weeds anxiety, probably related to 5HT3 wich is colocalised with CB1 and does the opposite with regards to gaba (increases it) counteracting the gaba decrease.

[medievil]

Okay, I was just curious if resetting was being used as a scientific term meaning something like the receptors are stuck downregulated like some people believe is the cause of protracted benzodiazepine withdrawal, thats all.

The main focus of this thread is undoing the negative effects that cannabis can have on some users on memory with a supplement.

negative effects during what time frame? I find that rather important in order to understand this whole thread. I'm quite aware the thread is about memory though...haha

BTW, I was just adding to the knowledge base by saying not all antagonists upregulate some even DOWNREGULATE, an interesting thing to know a long with the information you gave everyone.

And yes, I know rimonabant can have positive effects on memory, it is on the wikipedia page :P.

I've just never experienced a need to reverse the effects of weed.. on any timescale(because they were never at all long lasting or horrible unless I smoked a highly recreational dose, which alcohol would impair my memory way worse..and I don't expect perfect memory on a highly recreational dose of a drug), so it's hard for me to understand and I'm trying to figure out what you all are trying to fix, which is why I was curious what time scale we were talking about: during the high, right afterwards, a day or two after, or months after, do you see how the thread confused me about that?

Cannabinoid receptors up-regulate rather fast regardless, and it isn't even an issue for me when I smoke as little amount of material as possible.. so I can't relate to it being an issue really which I believe is part of the problem of me understanding what exactly other people's issues with it regarding memory were.

It has not been given a scientific name yet but I'm sure in time it will when new drugs are created to reverse the receptor alterations created by agonists (or antagonists).

Hopefully it will become more mainstream especially with those negatively effected by their SSRI use suffering from ssri brain zaps now using an SSRE like tianeptine to undo the effects.

Hmm well for me I want to be able to undo any possible negative side effects from cannabis or it's analogs both in the short and long term. I use it for a spinal condition along with kratom but do not want to develop any tolerance or negative side effects. Taking it with rimonbant at least for me in very low doses seems to prevents any increase in dosage and higher doses I use by itself to ensure my receptors have been reset as it were. Doing this over time I've reduced my initial dosage and seem to be fine.

I don't believe everyone's cannabinoid receptors always return to normal after short or long term usage hence tolerance or increased side effects (memory, etc) are noticed. If you have never noticed any impairment you've got some nice cannabinoid receptors perhaps you should patent them. So you don't get withdrawal effects?

What rimonabant dose do you use and has it effects on the "high", the cognitive, anxiety, social etc effects of cannabis?

[RS3RS]

Has anyone considered experimenting with nicotine for this purpose?

The residual effects of marijuana are almost exactly the same to me as the "next day hangover" from doxylamine succinate, which is a strong anticholinergic. Nicotine being a substance that counteracts anticholinergics.

Not saying nicotine is something that should be used long-term, but I'm curious as to its usefulness for counter-acting short term effects post-intoxication.