76 replies to this topic

[medievil]

Aniracetam potentiates cannabis quite a bit and acts on acetylcholine wich could make it the ideal candidate.

[kevinseven11]

Cannabis inhibits and releases gaba in certain areas. But the important thing to us is where the gaba is released. its released where memory is important. You guys think that its all about acetylcholine being inhibited but its only partially true. GABA INHIBITS ACETYLCHOLINE! So when we give a rat a gaba (a) antagonist, memory effects are gone. Study link

I've tried racetams and ALCAR with weed and the effects were minimal.

[medievil]

Gaba inhibits acetylcholine so just reverse that with releasing acetylcholine so focussing on just that will do the trick, youll inhibit gaba in too many brainarea's then where mj allready does, welcome to anxiety land

Try better racetams, nefiracetam increases gaba but is extremely potent at improving cognition, it will reverse both the acetylcholine and what you overlooked the anti glutamate actions, glutamate is the motor of cognition.

[kevinseven11]

Gaba is anti glutamate. If you try increase ach too much you can also run into many problems. Also you wont be able to stop all effects by increasing ach becuase glutamate is stopped by gaba directly.
Ive tried choline and it helps only a little! Please post a study to further your claims!

[gamesguru]

No one is using numbers with dosages, but rather relative terms. "Take a micro dose of rimonabant with a conseravtive dose of cannabis"...."No it has to be a modest dose of canabis"..."oh, screw you and your opinion"..."you too".


People are claiming specific neurotransmitter levels are changing in specific regions of the brain, yet no claim (or evidence in support thereof) is given of a parituclar case, involving a paritcular neurotransmitter, in a particular brain region, having particular behavior consequences (which are measurable in mice, say by grad students, who conduct various tests on the mice). This general argument doesn't give much credence to the claim that this this particular neurotransmitter in this particular brain region (say GABA, in the cingulate cortex) is increased by this drug (say cannabis), and therefore explains its memory-inhibiting properties. It's a very fine hypothesis, but you must admit it is untested.

As for kevin's study, Dr. S. A. Varvel and his four colleagues have produced a few dubious studies on cannabinoids, including this one about CBD/THC interactions (http://link.springer...-0356-9...which you'll notice makes no positive conlclusions) and this very late one about the endocannabinoid system and suppression of learned behaviors (http://link.springer...0213-004-2121-2). The study involving bicuculline makes bold claims with very little data. If, for instance, bicuculline is GABRA5 specific, it will have anti-amnesic effects independently of whether you take cannabis or not. [GABRA5 receptors are being investigated because they have promising potential as nootropic sites.] So that would explain why bicuculline "reversed" the non-mnemonic amnesic effects of THC, and debunk their assumption that THC must be causing interference, when infact the endocannabinoids are already causing significant interference (thank you evolution for valuing thought above sex! wait...) and the bicuculline is simply exhibiting nootropic effects. They even mention CB1 knockout mice were supersensitive to the lab test, but fail to include them in their data or conclusions...I expect this kind of lab work from middle schoolers. I have attached the full study for anyone interested.

Attached Files

•  study128.pdf   405.52KB   5 downloads

Edited by dasheenster, 10 December 2012 - 09:38 AM.

[BLimitless]

People might wish to look at Celastrus Paniculatus. It is known very well for clearing away the "weedover" and many people use it directly for this purpose alone. It is a memory tonic and sharpens the brain all round, I believe it does this via some kind of cholinergic activity perhapse acetylcholinesterase inhibition although I cannot remember precisely the method of action.

Source: CelastrusShop.com
Celastrus Seed (Celastrus paniculatus)

Celastrus paniculatus is a treasured medicinal herb that is revered for its effects on the brain and has been used for centuries in Ayurvedic Medicine for sharpening the memory, increasing intellect, and improving concentration. It has great potential as a study aid for students and is also perhaps the most effective memory enhancer available for all ages. In recent pre-clinical trials with rats and mice, those treated with injections of Celastrus oil were able to not only learn skills involving memory retention in far less time, they also retained this information for longer periods of time.
Forget Ginkgo biloba; there’s a new sheriff in town! Further pre-clinical studies of Celastrus seed extract have conclusively shown an improvement in learning and memory in both physical and mental tests. These studies demonstrate that the cognitive-enhancing properties of Celastrus paniculatus seed are now being pursued as memory aids by pharmaceutical companies. It may only be a matter of time before a “smart pill” appears that is far more effective than the Ginkgo biloba that has been used for many years as an aid for memory and clarity of thought.
Celastrus seeds yield a dark brown oil known as Celastrus oil, which possesses the medicinal properties of the seeds. The seeds and oil are reported to contain the alkaloids celastrine and paniculatin, which constitute the active principles of this natural herbal product.
There are a few forms of Celastrus products appearing in shops these days, and the number one question we get asked is what form is the best and most potent? In our personal experience we have found that the liquid extracts are the most potent, probably because liquids have fast absorption rates in to the bloodstream. Second to the liquid form, we like the whole seeds, which can easily be made in to a tea. The last on the list is capsules or memory pills which, like any other pill, have to make their way through the stomach before they are absorbed into the body.
We offer a full discussion about this topic HERE.
Scientific Evidence

Celastrus paniculatus has reportedly shown good results in treating mental depression and in hastening the process of learning and memory in experimental animals. It also gave excellent results in treating panic attacks without any side effects.
In one experimental study, the effect of Celastrus oil on learning and memory in a two-compartment passive avoidance task in rats was studied. The effects on the contents of norephinephrine (NE), dopamine (DA) and serotonin (5-HT) in the brain and on the levels of their metabolites both in the brain and urine were also assessed.
Significant improvement was observed in the retention ability of the medicine-treated rats compared with the saline administered controls. The contents of NE, DA and 5-HT and their metabolites in the brain were significantly decreased in the medicine treated group. These studies clearly indicate that Celastrus oil causes an overall decrease in the turnover of key chemicals that directly support learning and memory.
Celastrus has documented use in the following applications:

• as an aphrodisiac
• as a powerful brain tonic to stimulate intellect
• as a medicine to increase cognitive recognition (helps with dreams)
• as a way to sharpen memory
• as a way to promote intelligence (it is known as Mags-zudi or “brain clearer”)
• as a brain tonic
• as a stimulant

Edited by BLimitless, 10 December 2012 - 05:10 PM.

[kevinseven11]

Apparently some e-cigs contain rimobant. http://www.sciencedi...02196731001366X

Edited by kevinseven11, 15 February 2013 - 07:08 PM.

[machete234]

I have no idea about the mechanism but last time I found bacopa sobers me up a little or at least makes the high less confusing.
Also I think that not consuming so much that you are as high as possible but only 50-75% has less unwanted side effects in the long term.

[Flex]

i have some longlasting deficits from MJ too.

regarding to memory and cognitive impairment if found that sarcosine(its the main component of testforce 2), an indirect nmda potentiator was benefical for me.
,
quercetine posses an strong antagonism at canabinoid receptors (ive read it somewhere but dont have the time to find it..its late i have to sleep ;-))
but conversely i didnt felt anything after ingestion.

activation of CB2 receptors (with i.e Echinacea) inhibits CB1 receptors. but not all, because some brainareas lack of CB2 receptors
unfortuanetly CB2 receptors activates 5-ht2a receptor mrna which elevates the transmission at this receptor and mades you more depressed and maybe a little dumper

regarding to the mu opioid receptor i read that coffeine and lobeine posses a blockade at the mu receptor.

clomipramine helped me for socialisation and cognition, moderately to good out.
maybe due dopamine d3 blockade but im not sure,

[kevinseven11]

I suggest no one try Celastrus Seed (Celastrus paniculatus) with THC. I tried 10 seeds 15 minutes after and I had negative effects and my memory got so bad I thought I would pass out. My legs got realy excited and my face red. It may due to its MAOI properties. Perhaps its okay to take when baseline (I didn't notice too much from it tho).

That study was in silico. It would need further studies plus quercetin has been found to inhibit memory in other ways than that. If you did report back with positives then it'll be extremely interesting. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20466049
THC activates CB2 receptors, so I don't think it will inhibit them enough to notice, Ive also tried CB2 receptor agonists like β-caryophyllene.

The mechanism at which Mu opioid receptor antagonists help are purely from gaba.

I have found that most of the deficits of MJ use are from lowered gaba and its excitotoxic result. The best way to reverse this is via a compound that inhibits excitotoxicity via antioxidation or other mechanism and a compound that upregulates gaba(a) receptors (Gaba(B) is better left down regulated because Gaba(b)antagonists are nootropic ).

[BLimitless]

I suggest no one try Celastrus Seed (Celastrus paniculatus) with THC. I tried 10 seeds 15 minutes after and I had negative effects and my memory got so bad I thought I would pass out. My legs got realy excited and my face red. It may due to its MAOI properties. Perhaps its okay to take when baseline (I didn't notice too much from it tho).

That study was in silico. It would need further studies plus quercetin has been found to inhibit memory in other ways than that. If you did report back with positives then it'll be extremely interesting. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20466049
THC activates CB2 receptors, so I don't think it will inhibit them enough to notice, Ive also tried CB2 receptor agonists like β-caryophyllene.

The mechanism at which Mu opioid receptor antagonists help are purely from gaba.

I have found that most of the deficits of MJ use are from lowered gaba and its excitotoxic result. The best way to reverse this is via a compound that inhibits excitotoxicity via antioxidation or other mechanism and a compound that upregulates gaba(a) receptors (Gaba(B) is better left down regulated because Gaba(b)antagonists are nootropic ).

As for Celastrus, sorry I should have mentioned: you should take it when baseline, the next day or day after.

Acetylcholinesterase inhibition + marijuana probably isn't a good idea given that post, I know it has some serious cholinergic effects (hence the dry mouth) so it's not really worth messing around here willy nilly; if you know what you're doing that's a whole another ballgame.

I did specifically say that it removes the weedover; as in the after-effects, not the main effects.

[kevinseven11]

I understand but I had to try it hah
It seems to have good effects on antioxidants in the brain as well as choline. I will continue experimenting with this substance, but its many effects might be a problem in the long run.

[dopeonarope]

See
Cures for Marijuana Memory Impairment

http://www.longecity...ory-impairment/

[Flex]

I´ve tried Celastrus and have to say that it didnt help me much.

Edited by Flex, 31 March 2014 - 09:39 AM.

[amara bin]

I´ve tried Celastrus and have to say that it didnt help me much.

In what form did you tried? (oil, seeds...)

[Flex]

I´ve taken the oil.

Edited by Flex, 23 April 2014 - 03:11 PM.

[Flex]

There are interactions of Thc and mTor.

postet it on

http://www.longecity...nt/#entry657962