11 replies to this topic

[andreinikolov]

hi everyone,
i have this problem : when i take ginkgo biloba supplement i expiriance panic attacks or fear phases before sleep; now i desided to try choline, but it also induces the same panic attacks, and stronger ones when combined with ginkgo. i have read a lot to explane this and found the following : autonomic nervous system uses primarily acetylcholine; ANS, suffering from pesticides intoxication prevents enzyme acetylcholinesterasa, which breaks down acetylcholine; during acetylcholine increasing supplements this leads to acetylcholine overstimulation, which disturbes the involuntary functions, such as breathing and puls, causing this way panic attacks. i suppose also, that the ANS problem may be present, but with cause, different from pesticides. so i am asking : how to heal my ANS? or, is there any other way to avoid acetylcholine overstimulation, so to be able to increase my acetylcholine levels, in order to make my memory better? also interesting is, that choline intake makes me dull, lowers concentracion and creates a feeling of weight over the eyes. thanks for attention.

[Synaptik]

I've been taking ginkgo for 10 years religiously and have never felt any effects on it. Strictly an anti-aging antioxidant for me. I doubt you have to worry about pesticide exposure since ginkgo is an extremely pest-resistant plant. In fact, it's the oldest known living life form in the world today (about 100 million years old). The reason scientsts know this is through distinctive ginkgo leaves in fossilized rock. There are ginkgo trees which live upwards of 3000 years. Point is, they are probably the hardiest plants in the world so I doubt pesticides are even needed - but I could wrong (haven't researched it).

I would be more concerned about potential radionuclides in the leaves if sourced from Japan. I inquired recently with my vitamin company who confirmed they stopped sourcing leaves from Japan after the Fukushima disaster (source from China instead). Try to find out if your brand tests for heavy metals (mine does).

[SuperjackDid_]

Gingko and Choline lower my heart rate and worse my panic attack ,i never use Choline or Gingko , except occasional time when i need more brain blood flow might be relate to your situation .
Problem behind might come from acetylcholine problem ,i lake knowledge but need to participate base on my experience .

[andreinikolov]

to Synaptik -
i am using ginkgo for two years allready and i am suprised from these reports that it does not cause any effect, because i feel noticable increase in concentration ability, short term memory, long term memory and mood; my attempt to explane this is by supposing that i have some neurological problem, which is repared by ginkgo to some degree; this problem could be something line ADD or ADHD, acording to selfdiagnose, based on my observations.

to nootropix -
do you have any problems, which may be the reason for this? what is, for instance, the cause for your panic attacks? i am interested in this, becasue acetylcholine increase seems to me pretty important for IQ increase, and i will not allow some panic attacks to stop me.

[rwac]

Yeah, choline doesn't work for me either. I've tried a lot of different forms. citicoline seemed to be working for me, but it was the cytidine (converts to uridine) part of it that was actually helping. I found that uridine itself is pretty damn good though.

[JChief]

to Synaptik -
i am using ginkgo for two years allready and i am suprised from these reports that it does not cause any effect, because i feel noticable increase in concentration ability, short term memory, long term memory and mood; my attempt to explane this is by supposing that i have some neurological problem, which is repared by ginkgo to some degree; this problem could be something line ADD or ADHD, acording to selfdiagnose, based on my observations.

to nootropix -
do you have any problems, which may be the reason for this? what is, for instance, the cause for your panic attacks? i am interested in this, becasue acetylcholine increase seems to me pretty important for IQ increase, and i will not allow some panic attacks to stop me.

If you are interested I just posted here a brief overview of what I was going through and what solved the panic attacks/anxiety (I admitted myself to the ER twice over those feeling so stupid) here

[andreinikolov]

ok, two last questions :
1.if choline does not work for me, does it mean that it is meaningless fot me to try all other acetylcholine-increasing substances like acetyl-l-carnitine or DMAE?
2.if arginine pyroglutamate is chemicaly similar to piracetam, is it possible that higher doses of it will cause identical with piracetam effects? i am currently taking 1.5g.

[JChief]

1. No - ALCAR has unique benefits and DMAE I cannot attest to but I have tried centrophenoxine which is somewhat related and exhibits a far different effect from certain other sources of choline I've tried.

2. No - chemically similar doesn't mean anything as far as effects you might or might not feel.

[andreinikolov]

i have something new on this one : i recently tried ginkgo 3000mg vials, which i have taken before and i remember they had a pretty noticeable effect on me, but this time surprisingly they caused the same effect that choline does; i guess this means two things : 1.acetylcholine increasing substances work paradoxical on me and also cause panic attacks. 2.there is something now, which is the cause of this, and which was not present before.
so, any ideas what is it? i really doubt that i am in acetylcholine overload just from 250mg choline plus 250mg inositol.

[SuperjackDid_]

Please help me ,few gram of citicoline lower my heart rate from 60+ to 40+ ,what cause and problem ,and how to solve? ,please give me some advice .

Edited by Nootropix, 01 November 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[renfr]

Don't take more choline, low heart rate means that you overdosed on cholinergics.
I suggest you take anticholinergics so that your HR goes higher, epinephrine/norepinephrine agonists may also help temporarily.

[SuperjackDid_]

Don't take more choline, low heart rate means that you overdosed on cholinergics.
I suggest you take anticholinergics so that your HR goes higher, epinephrine/norepinephrine agonists may also help temporarily.

But i have good respond to choline ,like my brain much more feel alert and able to concentrate better ,i will try reduce choline tomorrow and not go above HR drop as you advised .

Thank you very much.