72 replies to this topic

[panarion]

Just out of curiosity, what's the worst supplement anyone has ever used? This is a pretty open-ended question; it could be because of a bad brand, contaminated product, nasty taste, overpricing, contraindications with other meds or supps, or just plain terrible side effects. Everyone's biochemistry is different, so I'm interested to see the diversity of negative responses.

[Turnbuckle]

Reservatrol, which after using 200+ mg for several years, caused severe knee and hip pain. I never saw any benefits from it either--I was taking it entirely on faith. Fortunately, the pains began going away once I stopped using it and eventually disappeared completely.

[Dorian Grey]

Fish Oil... Thought I was gonna hurl when I burped up that first stinky belch.

Then everything in my GI tract ran through me like grass through a goose.

One and done! Nevermore

[Junk Master]

A second for rancid fish oil.

Among the many bodybuilding supps I'd single out HMB. Costly at the time and worthless.

[nupi]

SAM-e pretty reliably gives me a head-ache

[malden]

Beta aline + niacim on an empty stomach it gives a deadly fluch when combined and you stay red fore 1 hour

[niner]

Creatine made my hair fall out.

[mikeinnaples]

Water. I drank so much of it after a run that I puked non-stop for an hour.

Tequila is a close second, but it is more efficient at the side effect I listed above.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 02 May 2012 - 12:17 PM.

[Synaptik]

I'll have to go with NAC. Gave me severe eye tremors, probably from stripping away zinc/trace metals eye needs to function. Found out it's a strong chelator and that's a no-no for me.

[8bitmore]

Creatine made my hair fall out.

Just curious here: at what doses and for how long?

I'm taking about 5g daily and seeing nothing but subtly enhanced brain energy/focus (and the all the research coming out seems to indicate pure goodness)

[niner]

Creatine made my hair fall out.

Just curious here: at what doses and for how long?

I'm taking about 5g daily and seeing nothing but subtly enhanced brain energy/focus (and the all the research coming out seems to indicate pure goodness)

It was around 5g/day. I probably took it for a week or two before I figured it out. Creatine raises DHT, which causes the problem. It's a real effect. There's published science on it, or you can just google 'creatine hair loss'. I posted a study here once, but it was years ago.

[Orajel]

Choline, it makes me depressed.

After that I'd say glutamine after learning it's entirely unnecessary, unless you're suffering from severe physical trauma.

Yohimbe is questionable, I enjoy it before working out, but any other time it causes severe anxiety and sweatyness for me.

[8bitmore]

Creatine made my hair fall out.

Just curious here: at what doses and for how long?
I'm taking about 5g daily and seeing nothing but subtly enhanced brain energy/focus (and the all the research coming out seems to indicate pure goodness)

It was around 5g/day. I probably took it for a week or two before I figured it out. Creatine raises DHT, which causes the problem. It's a real effect. There's published science on it, or you can just google 'creatine hair loss'. I posted a study here once, but it was years ago.

Thanks for that heads-up, I had no idea; will moderate my intake down to 4g a day and skip the weekends. All the same I guess the reaction to Creatine will differ vastly depending on individual bio-chemistry: I for one is low-testosterone type* - have relatively narrow jawline and much longer index than ring-fingers (this latter indicator have recently been called doubt upon but I reckon its not completely out of the equation yet). Just out of interest, would you consider yourself high/low testosterone type?

*hell I don't even know if that makes sense but intuitively I reckon there might be something to it.

[Cephalon]

Too many :-( Though Donepezil was the worst so far. Found out most the ACh boosters make me sad/mad, but combining Alpha GPC with Donepezil was really bad! How come this stuff is mentioned on most (old/bad researched) reports about cognitive enhancers?

[Solipsis]

DMAE - dizziness, confusion, horrible body-load
L-tyrosine - headaches
DMAA - very peculiar cracked out feeling after repeated dosing

I got flushing effects from GABA plus a very weird effect on respiration (making it very deep IIRC), on more than one occasion it freaked me out a bit but I wouldn't call it evil like DMAE is for me.
A warning about phenibut is that it can produce twisted withdrawal effects when not cycled or abstained properly, but then the user is to blame and the compound otherwise feels wonderful and worthwhile.

[victortsoi]

^^is there a similar withdrawal to picamilon?

[Solipsis]

^^is there a similar withdrawal to picamilon?

Well I'm not sure, I suppose so. There is a difference in action between them, phenibut is analogous to GABA but not identical - it's a partial agonist at GABA_B-subtype receptors in some parts of the brain, full agonist in other parts of the brain it seems, and to a lesser extent of affinity for the GABA_A-subtype. Picamilon is basically GABA itself when dissociated (although I am not aware if it makes any difference in non-dissociated form in the brain) which is by definition a full agonist for it's own receptors.
Picamilon is mild and feels supplement-like rather than drug-like just as phenibut does IMO/IME but probably for different reasons. The GABA coming from picamilon ends up in the natural GABA/glutamate equilibrium - I don't know if this system has a memory i.e. if picamilon abuse chronically changes the citric acid (Krebs) cycle. I never really thought about it before but the mildly stimulating action of picamilon probably comes from the glutamate derived from picamilon's GABA. The body often adjusts for changed levels in some way or another...
...I would not be surprised if severe picamilon abuse and discontinuation of it can leave you with GABA ánd glutamate deficiency because natural influx of compounds into the GABA/glutamate cycle is downregulated somewhere along the way. But it's also possible that this system is so essential that it does not take that much time before the body 'notices' the imbalance, and upregulates/fixes things again.

As far as I know there is not much evidence at all about what can happen with picamilon problems - or even anecdotal reporting. Seems to me like you would have to let this escalate very far before the consequences become severe, I personally would not like to be the one to find out...
With phenibut the feeling does really suck quite hard if you have been using it too much - but the main part of recovery does not take *that* long. I'm afraid though that messing with your GABA and glutamate balance on a chronic basis can be the start of long-term problems like an anxiety disorder developing, or insomnia, essentially problems you might've been taken picamilon or phenibut to begin with.

Edited by Solipsis, 19 July 2012 - 05:02 AM.

[LazarusMan]

Hyperazine - made me feel like I was getting dementia.

[nowayout]

Resveratrol. It triggered inflammation in multiple joints and back, which turned into spondyloarthropathy, a chronic autoimmune condition.

[dear mrclock]

great thread by the way. im finding interesting now twice here and few other reports elsewhere of resveratrol causing inflamation of joints and related parts. seems like that shit needs fucking label at this point saying "limited intake".

anyway, for me it has to be lions mane which had just limited amount of small studies suggesting it as cognitive enhancer which i followed with hope, yet it caused severe anxiety, depression and irritatance, headaches etc.

Edited by dear mrclock, 20 July 2012 - 11:08 AM.

[balance]

Vitamin C (any form including lipospheric sodium ascorbate in any amount ranging from 50mg to 3g)

Caused the exact opposite of what it's supposed to do. Made me so sick that I got pericarditis 3 times within 6 months (something I had never gotten before and never since gotten again since stopping 'high' dose vit C). The dose I was taking at that time was between 500mg-1.5g a day.

I have a very strong suspicion I am allergic to vitamin C. Every time I consume something rich in it (food) I feel like I'm about to catch a cold. I get joint pains, diarrhea, constant sneezing etc.

Carnosine was a supplement I used to tolerate well but these days I get a similar reaction to vitamin C in that it makes me feel sick and gives me a headache.

Omega 3 (from LEF). Every time I take that it feels like my body doesn't recover from exercise (as if the anti inflammatory effect is completely inhibiting a heal up) and strangely I get very depressed when taking it. But I am certain I must be deficient in omega 3 acids... my body is pretty unusual I guess .

I've tried/tested every single LEF supplement and a lot of AOR and Source naturals products. Most never gave me any ill effects nor did I notice anything at all. I've been taking supplements for 6-7 years now and have become increasingly health with respect to eating, exercise, sleep, psychology.

Only supplement that I notice something positive from albeit again causing some anti inflammatory effect (meaning I don't recover the next day after exercise unlike when I don't take it) is pomegranate. Any time I take it (from lef is the only one i've tried) my skin becomes noticably more hydrated and smooth, but the effect wears off after a day or 3.

Regards,

Edited by piet3r, 20 July 2012 - 10:59 PM.

[kevinspaceyisunderrated]

Nuvigil destroyed my appetite and made me incredibly nauseous. I still don't understand why it's considered a Nootropic.

[Lufega]

Resveratrol. No benefits but I did get joint pain, plantar fasciitis and quite possibly, a hernia.

Creatine made my hair fall out.

Just curious here: at what doses and for how long?

I'm taking about 5g daily and seeing nothing but subtly enhanced brain energy/focus (and the all the research coming out seems to indicate pure goodness)

It was around 5g/day. I probably took it for a week or two before I figured it out. Creatine raises DHT, which causes the problem. It's a real effect. There's published science on it, or you can just google 'creatine hair loss'. I posted a study here once, but it was years ago.

So that's why my hair is thinning as of late..

[renfr]

PC, probably the most killer supplement I've ever tried. It nearly gave me an heart attack, I guess I had that enzyme which converts PC metabolites into TMAO in the liver and therefore cause lipid congestion in my blood vessels.

Calcium also is a severe concurrent. I can't even take it and I avoid it, each time I take it I take a ride to hell. Panic attacks, heart palpitations, I thought I was going to die. I can't even imagine that one brand of bottled water puts tons of calcium and says it's good for the body. To me it's stress in a bottle. I think our western gastronomy already contains to much calcium and not enough magnesium.



Oxiracetam, it was one of the worst supplements I took. Not only it doesn't increase my memory but it depletes totally magnesium reserves and makes me hyperstressed, result is that cognition is severely impaired. Cholinergics supplementation doesn't make the trick. It nearly gave me suicidal ideation or at least severe anxiety.

Activated charcoal, that must be used in conjunction with either macrogol or blond psyllium, I didn't know that and got severe constipation. I have so much luck that it happened right when I took a whole cup of coffee, constipation increases absorption and you can imagine the result, it was as if I took a massive dose of coffee.

MSM was deadly in its side effects, it caused me an healing crisis during the detoxifying process, it was very annoying but once the crisis is over (in a few days) it's a really good supplement to cleanse your body and for joint support.

[dear mrclock]

whats PC ? Personal Computer ??

[balance]

He's referring to Phosphatidyl Choline

[dear mrclock]

and what is TMAO ? renfr i see you are from france but in other parts of the world where people arent autistic like you we explain what our avberavtions mean ok ?

[Hebbeh]

and what is TMAO ? renfr i see you are from france but in other parts of the world where people arent autistic like you we explain what our avberavtions mean ok ?

Common acronyms. Do your research before posting and calling names. And I'd rather be autistic than be you.

[MrHappy]

What's actually interesting about this thread is that you can see from peoples' bad experiences whether they are over or under-methylators and whether they have specific allergies/issues.

A negative response to a fairly common supplement can give an insight into general health aspects.

I'm going to throw a few ideas around for consideration:

B vitamin, SAM-e issues - you're probably an over-methylator.

Calcium - you need vitamin D, K & magnesium. Further evidenced by the oxiractem. The anxiety and palpitations suggest overactivity or issues in the dopamine pathway, leading to noepinephrine spikes.

PC heart attack - you have some dangerous rogue gut flora and fauna that may benefit from eviction and replacement. History of antibiotics, medication or hospital stays?

Vitamin C & pericarditis - I'd be looking at a pathogen / infection, including but not limited to lyme disease. Increasing the acidity of your blood may tip you over the edge.

Lion's mane anxiety - you're likely an over-methylator.

DMAE, L-tyrosine, DMAA - 5HT receptor imbalance issues. You're likely an over-methylator.

Choline and yohimbe causing anxiety - you're likely an over-methylator.

Fish oil - rancid product, poor liver function or gut flora issue.

Further reading: http://www.enzymestu...methylation.htm

Edited by MrHappy, 30 July 2012 - 11:09 AM.

[Kahnetic]

Every time I've tried St. Johns Wort the effects have been adverse. I find it makes me extremely irritable and impatient, with none of the anxiolytic effects so many people report.