72 replies to this topic

[LazarusMan]

What's actually interesting about this thread is that you can see from peoples' bad experiences whether they are over or under-methylators and whether they have specific allergies/issues.

A negative response to a fairly common supplement can give an insight into general health aspects.

I'm going to throw a few ideas around for consideration:

B vitamin, SAM-e issues - you're probably an over-methylator.

Calcium - you need vitamin D, K & magnesium. Further evidenced by the oxiractem. The anxiety and palpitations suggest overactivity or issues in the dopamine pathway, leading to noepinephrine spikes.

PC heart attack - you have some dangerous rogue gut flora and fauna that may benefit from eviction and replacement. History of antibiotics, medication or hospital stays?

Vitamin C & pericarditis - I'd be looking at a pathogen / infection, including but not limited to lyme disease. Increasing the acidity of your blood may tip you over the edge.

Lion's mane anxiety - you're likely an over-methylator.

DMAE, L-tyrosine, DMAA - 5HT receptor imbalance issues. You're likely an over-methylator.

Choline and yohimbe causing anxiety - you're likely an over-methylator.

Fish oil - rancid product, poor liver function or gut flora issue.

Further reading: http://www.enzymestu...methylation.htm

Yohimbe effects so many serotonin receptors that I don't know if it could simply be chalked up to that simple of an explanation. I don't fit the definition of an "Over-methylator" according to that website and I did not enjoy taking the supplement at all.

As for DMAA, I believe it to be a very ugly stimulant and have had terrible comedowns from it, while the other two you list in the same category I experience little to no effects from.

[balance]

Vitamin C & pericarditis - I'd be looking at a pathogen / infection, including but not limited to lyme disease. Increasing the acidity of your blood may tip you over the edge.

I've tried both sodium/calcium ascorbate and the ascorbic acid version. Any other advice?? Interesting stuff.

[Sartac]

Cat's claw and Zyflamend PM. Best described as never ending psychedelic nightmares.

Something in Zyflamend PM must be an MAOI, and Cat's claw contains DMT analogs.

[fruitlover]

Nuvigil destroyed my appetite and made me incredibly nauseous. I still don't understand why it's considered a Nootropic.

Same here. Nuvigil has similar effects on me. At first I thought I just don't sleep well the night before but when I take it for about a week, I had the same feeling.

[hamishm00]

Resveratrol is the worst for me, in a sense, as it's the only supplement which has actually caused me pain (extreme jaw tension, achilles aches, shoulder blade stiffness that almost has the symptoms of tendonitis).

It's also one of the best supplements I have taken for fitness.

[tintinet]

NSI GTE- caused severe anxiety and depression.

[dear mrclock]

NSI GTE ??

[tintinet]

Nutraceutical Sciences Institute Green Tea Extract (NSI GTE)

One related thread here.

Edited by tintinet, 02 August 2012 - 08:02 AM.

[ikaros]

Huperzine A - horrible mood guaranteed!
After taking it around 10 times and each time ending up with the same result, I just flushed it down the toilet.

[Timbertea]

Vitamin C (any form including lipospheric sodium ascorbate in any amount ranging from 50mg to 3g)

Caused the exact opposite of what it's supposed to do. Made me so sick that I got pericarditis 3 times within 6 months (something I had never gotten before and never since gotten again since stopping 'high' dose vit C). The dose I was taking at that time was between 500mg-1.5g a day.

I have a very strong suspicion I am allergic to vitamin C. Every time I consume something rich in it (food) I feel like I'm about to catch a cold. I get joint pains, diarrhea, constant sneezing etc.

Regards,

Vitamin C and N-Acetyl Cystiene have a rather interesting paradoxical effect in that if you already have existing inflammation (from an illness such as pneumonia, or an autoimmune condition like rheumatoid arthritis -- or from an injury like a crush injury) -- they will make the inflammation much worse rather than better. If you do not have one of these conditions, they both generally work to reduce inflammation. However, high doses of Vitamin C can definitely cause gastro-intestinal distress, and its a very common side effect. I'm not sure what your general state of health is or was, but a lot of research generally points to pericarditis being largely infectious in origin - even if its not always a single infection that causes the immune response. There is quite a lot of interesting research coming down the pike about the way that many forms of bacteria (including L-forms -- which are generally thought, and I believe wrongly to be harmless) not only share their DNA & RNA with other bacteria, but are able to pick up DNA & RNA from the host, and even change our DNA and RNA in the process.

I don't have a reference handy, but I do rememer reading a couple studies about how relative disease risks normalized for people that moved from one continent to another, and that the intestinal flora generally became the same as that in the local population even if the subjects did not change their diet in any meaningful way. Research into the idea of metagemonics is still relatively new, but the idea is gaining a lot of traction in the research community. There are still racial differences in how the MHCC recognizes friend from foe in the immune system, and this accounts for some variation in disease (e.g. sickle cell in people of black African ancentory). However, it would not account for the relative risks equalizing in people of all races when they locate to a new region for the few diseases that do not have a heavy racial bias frequency.

[**DEACTIVATED**]

I used an antidepressant that literally made me uncomfortable to be in my own skin every second night or day. I could only stand it for 4 days before I quit cold turkey. This was years ago so I don't remember which one it was. Not really a supplement either but oh well.

Yohimbe at large doses is one of the strongest and most unpleasant supplement that creates problems for me in many aspects for at least 24 hours.

Maybe because I use it on weekends and there tends to be drinking.. But I'll have stomach issues, "body anxiety" like I can't stop moving, blood pounding semi headache, insomnia, over active mood, and more.

And I STILL use it, haha.

Maybe I'm an over-methylator?

[shifter]

Years ago it was either 1 or the combination of both when I took a Vitamin E product (that contained the 8 forms) with R lipoic acid. I got the worst sickly sore headache that I could barely function. I guess it was like a hangover? Lasted for several hours anyway. I'm guessing either a dodgy batch of something or a combination effect because lipoic acid and vitamin E I normally don't have a problem with.

[spermidine]

I used an antidepressant that literally made me uncomfortable to be in my own skin every second night or day. I could only stand it for 4 days before I quit cold turkey. This was years ago so I don't remember which one it was. Not really a supplement either but oh well.

Yohimbe at large doses is one of the strongest and most unpleasant supplement that creates problems for me in many aspects for at least 24 hours.

Maybe because I use it on weekends and there tends to be drinking.. But I'll have stomach issues, "body anxiety" like I can't stop moving, blood pounding semi headache, insomnia, over active mood, and more.

And I STILL use it, haha.

Maybe I'm an over-methylator?

how can you not remember which antidepresant you took ? i understand if it i ocured 20 years ago, thats fine, but as you state "years ago" and you didnt memorize it ? why share at all man. you are not helping yourself or anyone else here. such ridiculous post.

[TheKidInside]

I find that people have bad experiences with supplements they either don't understand and/or buy terrible quality GNC or Vitamin Shoppe stuff...

in my experience, though;

Bacopa - even the Himalayan brand made me very down and I took it for mental clarity along with choline to help me focus and study so that was terrible

NO Xplode - basically creatine and caffeine...more like Anal Xplode and terrible jitters, which brings me to the next one

DMAA - absolutely terrible cracked out feeling after working out

Fish oil (SOME brands) - some purified brands like Nordic Naturals had no taste and no burps. My girlfriend uses one with an organic/natural mint extract in it so there's no taste and no burps either BUT one brand I got from my mom (pharmacist) had the fish burps and OMFG I finally understand what people say when they take it and think they will hurl afters :P

Provigil and Adderall for obvious reasons lol

[**DEACTIVATED**]

I used an antidepressant that literally made me uncomfortable to be in my own skin every second night or day. I could only stand it for 4 days before I quit cold turkey. This was years ago so I don't remember which one it was. Not really a supplement either but oh well.

Yohimbe at large doses is one of the strongest and most unpleasant supplement that creates problems for me in many aspects for at least 24 hours.

Maybe because I use it on weekends and there tends to be drinking.. But I'll have stomach issues, "body anxiety" like I can't stop moving, blood pounding semi headache, insomnia, over active mood, and more.

And I STILL use it, haha.

Maybe I'm an over-methylator?

how can you not remember which antidepresant you took ? i understand if it i ocured 20 years ago, thats fine, but as you state "years ago" and you didnt memorize it ? why share at all man. you are not helping yourself or anyone else here. such ridiculous post.

Wow thanks, that was really kind of you.

That's actually the first time I've been talked to like that on this forum. Sorry that the exact name of the drug was so important to you that you couldn't help but take the time to be rude about it. First off, excuse me for going on my mild miniature tangent about an anti-depressant that's name still eludes me.

I did however describe in detail the worst supplement I've ever used, as the thread is titled. You must think drugs are supplements?

[krsna]

pramiracetam, followed by piracetam. they induce a very unbalanced feeling in me, the rational brain is overemphasized at the expense of the whole, no real cognitive benefit but simply an emotional blunting spockification which feels pretty gross and unnatural.

[leanguy]

Huperzine at any dose-- guaranteed headache, nausea and muscle tension

[cATsE]

What's actually interesting about this thread is that you can see from peoples' bad experiences whether they are over or under-methylators

Could you please elaborate on this a bit? Because I've seen you mention it a couple of times, but I don't understand what it is exactly and what the implications might be.

[MrHappy]

What's actually interesting about this thread is that you can see from peoples' bad experiences whether they are over or under-methylators

Could you please elaborate on this a bit? Because I've seen you mention it a couple of times, but I don't understand what it is exactly and what the implications might be.

Here's a good primer and further reading / links:
http://www.enzymestu...methylation.htm

[NFP]

ill give you 2 since they gave me pretty much equally horrible experiences: L-Tyrosine and Sam-E

Sam-E made me a nervous wreck throughout the day i tried it. Couldnt form coherent sentences, was very nervous and couldnt think clearly. L-Tyrosine made my heart rate double, couldnt stay still.

[blood]

I am more irritable on days when I take TMG

(but SAMe gives me a brighter mood, and more prosocial feelings).

where does that place me on the under over methylator spectrum?

[adiosameobas]

phenibut. worked like a charm the first time i used it. then every other time i tried to get that initial sweet spot back, it just led me to using higher and higher dosages. caused anxiety even if cycled, days on/off. whether this was psychosomatic or not.

Noopept. I actually like this one, but, its a jekyll and hyde. certain days it makes me very stimulated and 'bubbly', chatty almost.(I do take the suggested month or so off) and other days, sometimes more often than not it makes me grumpy and irritable. often i think this type of thing in public: "You stupid fucking idiots. get the fuck out of the way, you are all so fucking stupid, I can't even fucking believe it." whether thats just the noopept or my own deep seeded loathing of society, i/m not really sure. but the noopept seems to elicit the response more often than not.

[JohnnyP]

Tetradecylthioacetic acid, I used it for weight loss purposes. It works extremely well and maybe I didn't use it appropriately (improper diet etc.) but it made me horribly fatigued.

[Ultravioletbllc]

Too each his own and we all so entirely different in make up @ renfr I couldn't agree more the two supplements I stay from like plague are any calcium , with the rare exception of taking in a boron bone complex with all the major and trace minerals in synergistic levels with( and this makes worlds of diff on bioavailability , and while these days I tinker with low dose d aspartic acid as it is a chemical nmda precursor so say 100 mg l glutamic acid

[Ultravioletbllc]

500 mg d aspartic acid with2-6 grams glycine 120 mcg huperazine a ( for that experimental micro stack think : supra charged nmda system especially you ( like me ) already take aniracetam specifically but especially If you take aniracetam and piracetam................but after that long somewhat interrelated but rant like off topic foray D-Aspartic acid taken at a clinically proven dose for free testosterone boosts gave me such bad panic attacks I literally had too call 911 and thought I was havin a heart attack ...... Interesting about the calcium as an anti anxiety relaxation supplement guru My first advice is always begin b vitamin with heavy magnesium supplementatioOn and avoid all calcium not found in foods and substances ( outside of piracetam wich actually helps my PTSD and a variety of its symtoms

[cATsE]

What's actually interesting about this thread is that you can see from peoples' bad experiences whether they are over or under-methylators

Could you please elaborate on this a bit? Because I've seen you mention it a couple of times, but I don't understand what it is exactly and what the implications might be.

Here's a good primer and further reading / links:
http://www.enzymestu...methylation.htm

Thanks, that was helpful!

[alecnevsky]

Creatine made my hair fall out.

Just curious here: at what doses and for how long?

I'm taking about 5g daily and seeing nothing but subtly enhanced brain energy/focus (and the all the research coming out seems to indicate pure goodness)

It was around 5g/day. I probably took it for a week or two before I figured it out. Creatine raises DHT, which causes the problem. It's a real effect. There's published science on it, or you can just google 'creatine hair loss'. I posted a study here once, but it was years ago.

You saw the detrimental effects in 2 wks? I've been dosing ethyl ester for like a year. I think I am going to toss the other tub now.

P.S threads like these are actually more helpful than the positive ones b/c it's more likely there is no placebo and/or bs

Not sure what i'd say though: probably craze or something, everything else was just ineffective

edit: now that I think back to my hardcore creatine days, I think I recall noticing hair falling out at an unusual rate (more than 1 at a time or something). have no idea how I did not connect the dots

Edited by alecnevsky, 30 May 2013 - 08:24 PM.

[alecnevsky]

I am still blown away by the popular concession of creatine as a harmless cognitive/muscular booster even though there are personal accounts from reliable sources and some research of its deleterious effects on the hair. It's likely that the bodybuilding bros and their aggressive marketing campaign makes everyone think this is an outlier effect, while I think it may be very real.

Are there any more testimonies re: creatine?

[Se4n]

I am still blown away by the popular concession of creatine as a harmless cognitive/muscular booster even though there are personal accounts from reliable sources and some research of its deleterious effects on the hair. It's likely that the bodybuilding bros and their aggressive marketing campaign makes everyone think this is an outlier effect, while I think it may be very real.

Are there any more testimonies re: creatine?

I had been suffering on and off from very high anxiety, up to the point that I had a couple of full on panic attacks in the past several months. I finally discovered that a large part of the anxiety was being fueled by the 5g of creatine that I would throw in my protein shake on a semi regular basis. I didn't have any problems with hair loss, but I know through blood testing that I don't have elevated DHT levels. I stopped the creatine and the anxiety dropped by 80% within 2 days.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[AOLministrator]

Ginkgo. Not the worst supplement but my personally worst supplement experience. I tried a supermarket product, 60 capsules à 2 euro and it worked excellent just like advertised. After using a few packs (real dosage was 8-12 capsules = one day) I learned that the product was discontinued. I have since tried maybe 20 different products, basically all of them: supermarket, ebay, online-shop, etc. only to discover that they are all placebos. Even worse, some contain whatever byproducts and only give you adverse effects. When I ran out I went to the pharmacy and laughed at the 80 euros they wanted for 40 capsules, since I paid less than two for already undeniable quality stuff. They told me you can't trust the supermarket crap, ineffective, possibly harmful, etc. "Of course I know it works, my shortsightedness goes away and I feel more blood running through my head and I can clearly concentrate better.", I said to them. They were actually right - regarding all the other stuff sold.

Well, that taught me the hard lesson that supplements all suck. Basically everything I ever bought since then that wasn't original medication or manufactured by a pharmacy with really elaborate quality certificates was either ineffective or impure, or both. Especially (disguised) China bulk powders. From what I read, the majority of people go for those and I wonder how many are actually poisoning themselves and having the effects just by the power of belief.

Its exactly like drain cleaners (in Europe): they used to actually clean drains but not anymore, because they are supposed to be environmentally friendly or whatever argument to make manufacturing cheaper. Now people are so used to it, they know nothing else, and buy the shit anyway. Just like it would actually work. They are unaware of how crappy the product actually is. Its insane if you think about it.