816 replies to this topic

[nootrope]

Has anyone here tried KSM-66 ashwagandha extract?

http://www.ksm66ashw...hwagandhaa.html

Studies show it extends lifespan in worms.

http://www.nutraingr...-worms-at-least

[Ultravioletbllc]

I might suggest you purchase a high quality DIM complex with a basic saw palmetto and or boron supplement of you are gaining test through ashwagandha maca or cordyceps you just wanna make sure aromatase > dht> estrogen>metabolites never goes past Testosterone but if you are doing anything too boost test please be aware of estradiol dht etc etc high free test will lead too higher levels of these as well so it's best too nip in the bud as they say and take some sort of aromatase inhibitor if you are a healthy male who enjoys his current libido

[Galaxyshock]

wow Ultravioletbllc, that was a long sentence.

Ashwagandha is the cleanest testosterone booster in my experience. Nothing estrogenic or DHT related sides, doesn't even increase acne or oily skin, and I'm extremely prone to these. Sense of wellbeing, energy, muscle strength, hornyness and controlled aggression I have noted. But I need quite hefty amount of withanolides like >40mg / day for the boost and minimum around a week of use. Ashwa also boosts thyroid hormone T3 which can help with weight loss just got to be careful it's surprisingly potent effect.

[Ultravioletbllc]

Interesting ad I have been cycling between cordyceps and ashwagandha for a few years now , occasionally like two mOnths a year max I'll swap in tulsi but I will say ashwagandha is mentally as in for example Anxiety easily the most effective adaptogen

[chris106]

Interesting, till now ashwagandha allways just seemed to be sedating for me, but I guess I just need to dose it way higher. The thing is, I'm not too fond of bying adaptogenic herbs in extraxt form, so I usually buy organic powder (whole plant, root and berry).

I ordered mine from rawliving.eu, but nowhere on their website or on the packaging does it state the amount of withanolides... Does anyone have a rough idea how much organic powder I'd have to take to get 40mg of withanolides? Any suggestions would be much appreciated...

[machete234]

I think you take like 3g of root powder I also think I read something about 0,2% of withanaloids in the roots.

3000x0,002=6mg
10g of root powder would then be the upper dose

I put it in a cup and pour some smal amount of water over it to shortly boil it in the microwave, then I fill the rest with milk and put it in for another minute.
Putting it in water helps it dissolve perfectly, drinking in milk is the aryuveda way.

How much did you pay? dragonspice has it for 30€ 1kg I think

The only thing I have now is from an italian book called "smart drugs"
There is also something that the german government did but I dont find it anymore probably its linked in wikipedia.

Results
The analysis of the root, the trunk and the leaves of Withania somnifera have confirmed the presence of the withaferine
A and of the withanolide D in all the parts of the plant but with a significant difference in their proportions. In the root,
the withanolide D proved to be present in greater percentage (0.193% vs 0.066%),while in the leaves in smaller percent-
age (0.003% vs 0.238%) compared to the withaferine A. In the trunk, the percentage of both compounds is low (0.007%
for the withanolide D and 0.048% for the withaferine A). Both compounds have been found in the analysed commercial
products. In the solids, the quantity of the withaferine A varied from 0.003% to 0.051% while the quantity of withanolide
D varied from 0.006% to 0.049%. In the liquid commercial products, the quantity of the withaferine A is in the range
0.027-0.065% and the withanolide D varies between 0.238% to 0.364%.

Edited by machete234, 28 May 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

I couldn't get the same results with organic full ashwagandha powder, even in quite big amounts, that I got with extract. The Now brand extract is dark and has a strong smell and taste, and is the most potent of them all. I guess they use certain parts and make strong extract so the nature of the herb changes a bit.

[machete234]

You should be able to get the same effects as two tablets of the himalaya brand quite easily with ~3 grams.

[chris106]

How much did you pay? dragonspice has it for 30€ 1kg I think

That's realy quite cheap! I think rawliving.eu and Indigo-Herbs.uk sell it for about 50€ and 70€ for 1kg. It's noteworthy though that these are powders one can cap, while dragonspice sells small-cut pieces which have to be made into tea.
Still, I didn't even know dragonspice was a german shop before, they even have quite the amount of adaptogens and mushrooms like cordyceps for very afordable prices, so thanks for that!

Also, I'll try "megadosing" my organic ashwagandha powder the next days, starting with an average dose of 5g and let you guys know how that goes...

Edited by chris106, 28 May 2013 - 11:06 PM.

[Seeking]

Andrey_81 (the thread starter), I messaged you but didn't see a reply yet, so I'll post it here. I look forward to comments from anyone else on this too:

Hi, I read the thread you started a year ago on Ashwagandha, the miracle herb. I'm going through nearly all the negative things you mentioned except sweating. After reading your post it sounds incredibly promising that Ashwagandha might actually work. I purchased some and started taking 1 in the morning 2 days ago. Do you still feel it works as well now as it did a year ago when you started the topic? I bought "Himalaya Pure Herbs" brand. The supplement information is here: www himalayausa com/images/oph_sf_ashwagandha.jpg Am I heading in the right direction with this brand/dose? How long did it take for you to feel the positive effects? Thanks for your help.

I also started taking Jarrow's SAM-e 400 once day for almost a week now.

[machete234]

It's noteworthy though that these are powders one can cap, while dragonspice sells small-cut pieces which have to be made into tea.

I yet have to try their roots too, but you would see what you get at least and probably it can be ground into powder.
My other things drom dragonspice where always good so far, they even sold kratom years ago thats how I found them.

[Ultravioletbllc]

I don't like the idea of whole plant vs proven nutriceutical routes , when variables such as soil heavy metal ppm , other possible competitive non therapeutic chemical derivatives of the plant etc and this statement rings too a higher degree for anything sourced out of the Indian subcontinent

[withdrawn]

This is just my own personal anecdotal evidence:

I loved using ashwagandha, I remember the first time I used it, almost 4 years ago, and in the spate of 4 days, my world changed for the better. I became more confident, outgoing, sociable, and my anxiety levels decreased substantially. But then I started to notice, when my capsules had finished, that I started to suffer from some form of strange withdrawal. The anxiety and general feeling of the blues came back full force, even greater than they did before. My motivational levels completely diminished and were at an all time low and I just generally lost interest in everything.

I never tied this in with the fact that my bottle of ashwagandha had finished, until I ordered some more a few weeks later, online, and they arrived and I remember taking 2 capsules in the morning, and that sense of well being returned. That is when the alarm bells started ringing. Through a grueling couple of years of trial and error, I realised that, although ashwagandha made me feel really good whilst on it, it was slightly habit forming and addictive. I basically had to keep on taking it.

Since January of this year, I have gone cold turkey. Has not been easy, and I do miss taking it. The only issue I have is the dependency on it. I did not experience any unwanted side effects whilst taking ashwagandha, except for when.. it use to run out.

Edited by withdrawn, 30 May 2013 - 08:57 PM.

[Seeking]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I am definitely in need of motivation, even if it is just temporary. What dosage did you take? The one I'm currently taking is here: himalayausa.com/images/oph_sf_ashwagandha.jpg

The bottle says take once daily before a meal. I'm not sure if I should take it twice a day for more of an effect.

[cuprous]

I take ashwangadnha on a "here and there" basis. This means I take it maybe once a week or so especially the night before any important calls or meetings. I have not noticed any major spikes in anxiety when I don't take it for a week or two but I do still notice a modulating effect when I do take it.

Keep in mind that most all psychoactive substances will cause rebound effects if they are used for prolonged periods and then suddenly stopped. Ashwagandha is probably no different.

If you are serious about reducing anxiety then you will likely need a multi-pronged approach. Meditation is hugely helpful in this regard and works to rewire the brain as opposed to medicate it. Eliminate caffeine and alcohol and get an exercise routine going.

[withdrawn]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I am definitely in need of motivation, even if it is just temporary. What dosage did you take? The one I'm currently taking is here: himalayausa.com/images/oph_sf_ashwagandha.jpg

The bottle says take once daily before a meal. I'm not sure if I should take it twice a day for more of an effect.

I was taking this brand:

http://www.pukkaherb...shwagandha.html

I always maintained the same dosage throughout the time I'd ever taken it. That was 2 capsules daily (after breakfast). That equaled about 800mg.

It always seemed to have had an effect at this maintained dosage. I therefore never felt the need to increase/decrease it.

[Andrey_81]

Andrey_81 (the thread starter), I messaged you but didn't see a reply yet, so I'll post it here. I look forward to comments from anyone else on this too:

Hi, I read the thread you started a year ago on Ashwagandha, the miracle herb. I'm going through nearly all the negative things you mentioned except sweating. After reading your post it sounds incredibly promising that Ashwagandha might actually work. I purchased some and started taking 1 in the morning 2 days ago. Do you still feel it works as well now as it did a year ago when you started the topic? I bought "Himalaya Pure Herbs" brand. The supplement information is here: www himalayausa com/images/oph_sf_ashwagandha.jpg Am I heading in the right direction with this brand/dose? How long did it take for you to feel the positive effects? Thanks for your help.

I also started taking Jarrow's SAM-e 400 once day for almost a week now.

Hi there! Sorry for late reply, I didn't check this forum for a long time

The anwer is YES, ashwagandha is still working and it's even better than 15 months ago (when I started with it). Don't be afraid to take more because one in the morning cannot last whole day. I cannot remember how long it takes to kick but I remember that I used to take it for one month only before bed (one pill). After that I raised my dose and started to take it early in the morning and again afternoon. Then I realized how good it is. Btw. at the beginning I was mixing it with Brahmi (bacopa moneri) and this was a mistake because brahmi made me feel extremely anxious (once, I wasn't able to speak in front of my whife). I was also taking fish oil which also made me feel worse.

After a while I realized that ashwagandha is the only thing that works for me but I decided to try other adaptogen herbs in order to find a perfect mix.

So, after 15 months I'm still taking asghwgandha, everyday without a day of break. And it still works and I don't need to take more than 500 mg per day (sometimes when I have a hard day with lot's of stress I take 750 mg of extract (250 mg, 3 times/day).

The latest routine I follow every working day is the following and this is the best possible routine I experienced in this 15 months of trying all kind of stuff (this are the brands I'm taking):
- when I get up I take 150-200 mg of rhodiola rosea (the doses are 500 mg, but I open the capsule and take less, cca 150-200 mg)
http://www.iherb.com...35?rcode=nnt354

- together with rhodiola I started to take 1000 mg panax ginseng (this is something new in my everyday routine):
http://www.iherb.com...17?rcode=nnt354

- half hour latter I take strong express (with milk) but only during the working days. During the weekend I don't drink coffee or any other caffeine. This rhodiola+ginseng+caffeine mix makes boost my energy up to heaven and I became extremely focused and prepared for work.

- after the coffee I take ashwagandha made by himalaya. I take the one I bought from ebay directly from India (250 mg caps) because I still have some from my previous purchase but I will continue with this one:
http://www.iherb.com...91?rcode=nnt354

...or with this one
http://www.iherb.com...10?rcode=nnt354

If you decide to try it just make sure it's an extract!

After that I just 'listen' to my body reactions and if I started to feel that I'm losing my confidence I take another ashwagandha at 13:00 or at 15:00. If I know that I have some important meeting or some social situation I take one ashwagandha one hour before this situation, just to be sure that I will remain 'normal' and confident.

If I feel that I need more energy I take 150-200 mg of rhodiola, usually at 17:00 or 18:00. This happens very very rarely because the morning intake makes me energized through the whole day.

A minute before bed I take tho caps of schizandra and I sleep whole night in a deep sleep and with vivid dreams:
http://www.iherb.com...67?rcode=nnt354

I will never make any breaks from ashwagandha and schizandra. Every month I make one week break from rhodiola and after 2-3 months I will make one-two week break from panax ginseng.

This is the best mix I tried so far but there is only one 'negative' effect that I'm experiencing but I can say that I like it

When I started to mix panax ginseng and rhodiola I became more aggressive, not sure why. I have no fear, I'm totally confident and I say what I think to everybody, it doesn't mater who the person I'm talking is (my boss, friend...). I just have no shame to express my thoughts and I feel better than ever in my own body. The problem is that in a second I became aggressive if I'm in some discussions. There's no way that I will turn red (like I used to). I can say that I like this feeling but I have to learn how to control myself.

I read that panag ginseng can make you feel like 'I don't care'. It's also possible that this ashwagandha+rhodiola+ginseng mix boosts testosterone and this could be the reason of this fearless feeling and aggression. Not sure, but I will continue to use all above.

Based on all above, I can say that from the day I discovered ashwagandha my life changed completely in a better way and I feel better then when I was 18. I'm sorry that I didn't discovered it long time ago. In this 15 months period I changed my personality in a better way, all with a help I'm getting from ashwagandha (and lately with other adaptogens). This goes slowly and it takes time, but if I feel so good after 15 moths of use, what will happen after 3 years or more? It's getting better and better as the times go by with the help of nature

And yes, ashwagandha is still my no 1. and I could quit all other adaptogens except ashwagandha. This is a must and all above I tried must be in a mix with ashw. It's good that ashw. goes well with all other adaptogens. It also goes well if taken with beer or any other alcohol and it will turn you into the most talkative and most confident person on a party or when you hang up with friends

Edited by Andrey_81, 31 May 2013 - 09:19 AM.

[Godof Smallthings]

This morning at 6:00 I took 10 mg of noopept without ashwagandha, rhodiola and coffee. Not sure what to say. At 7:00 it was very hard for me to speak and my mind was not that clear and I felt minor anxiety. At 8:00 I was getting better, more focused and relaxed. At 9:00 felt OK but I felt that I'm little bit blocked while talking on the phone, like my mind is not that fast. At 9:45 I decided to take ashwagandha and from that time all is getting better and better. I feel calm, focused, concentrated but still talkative and confident.

Maybe is too early (my second day), or I'm taking lower doses (10 mg) but I can't say that noopept does wonders. For me it is nothing special. I have more benefits from ashwagandha. I expected more from noopept considering its strength. I'm not sure that it is for occasional use. I thought that noopept will work in similar way to caffeine and that it will speed up my brain and improve my speaking skills (again, like coffee does). It makes me more relaxed and I expected opposite reaction.

In my experience, noopept was not an effective 'one time boost' type supplement, but something I needed to take every day for some time to experience positive effects. The first 5-7 days I experienced increased forgetfulness (reduction in working memory and short term memory as evidenced by forgetting appointments and sometimes stumbling over words, something I almost never do otherwise), but after that I experienced lasting benefits.

Personally, I got none of the 'magic serene feeling' or 'increased energy' that others have reported, from noopept. But after the break-in period, it definitely did improve cognition and memory.

I think for your needs (getting rid of brain fog fast) I would recommend this combination:
- Alaska Salmon Oil (or Krill oil)
- A cup of good quality green tea (brewed on leaves)
- Ginkgo Biloba.

ALCAR also works great for me.

[withdrawn]

Are those of you who are taking ashwagandha comfortable in knowing that it is most likely you will have to keep on taking this supplement in order to receive the beneficial effects, and if you stop taking it, you may experience a come down even worse than what you may have had before initially taking it?

[Galaxyshock]

St. John's Wort, Bacopa and Ginseng have done a lot more to me than Ashwagandha ever could. I don't even get really any effect from ashwagandha these days, because I simply don't need it. Except that in big doses the hormonal boost is nice. I don't need to think about any dosing schedules and supplementing as my mind, brain and body seem to have adjusted to a whole healthier and calm. Chronic use of St. John's has been the biggest culprit to return me to a positive, sociable and happy person. Bacopa has removed anxiety tendencies and among with Ginseng got me in touch with my character and cognitive issues are gone too. And these seem to be lasting results unlike with Ashwagandha where I had to keep dosing several times a day and watch when it wears off etc. At some point last year I was using the strongest Ashwagandha extract 3 times a day to keep horrible anxiety and shit away, so the difference is huge.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 31 May 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[Andrey_81]

Are those of you who are taking ashwagandha comfortable in knowing that it is most likely you will have to keep on taking this supplement in order to receive the beneficial effects, and if you stop taking it, you may experience a come down even worse than what you may have had before initially taking it?

Completely comfortable. I doesn't matter if I will have to take if everyday for the rest of my life as long as it works.

[chris106]

St. John's Wort, Bacopa and Ginseng have done a lot more to me than Ashwagandha ever could. I don't even get really any effect from ashwagandha these days, because I simply don't need it. Except that in big doses the hormonal boost is nice. I don't need to think about any dosing schedules and supplementing as my mind, brain and body seem to have adjusted to a whole healthier and calm. Chronic use of St. John's has been the biggest culprit to return me to a positive, sociable and happy person. Bacopa has removed anxiety tendencies and among with Ginseng got me in touch with my character and cognitive issues are gone too. And these seem to be lasting results unlike with Ashwagandha where I had to keep dosing several times a day and watch when it wears off etc. At some point last year I was using the strongest Ashwagandha extract 3 times a day to keep horrible anxiety and shit away, so the difference is huge.

Galaxyshock, I am going to combine (Perika) St John's Wort and Panax Ginseng, too - currently waiting for both to arrive. Probably gonna throw Rhodiola Rosea in there too, if needed.
However, I am a bit hesitant to try Bacopa, despite having a full bottle from Mindnutrition sitting on my table for a few weeks...

The thing is, Bacopa is the only one of the bunch I read allmost as much negative anecdotal reports about as positive ones around here...
Some claim that while boosting memory, it may actually decrease libido and increase anxiety due to excess serotonine. Then again that was only mentioned in conjunction with the Uridine-Stack, so it's probably just a concern in that context?

Also, from your experience, how would you judge St Johns wort's abilitys to raise motivation on a dopaminergic level? I know it pretty much raises all catecholamines, but since my motivational problems are much worse than my mild anxiety, excess serotonin is allways a huge problem for me and makes me much worse...

[Galaxyshock]

St. John's Wort, Bacopa and Ginseng have done a lot more to me than Ashwagandha ever could. I don't even get really any effect from ashwagandha these days, because I simply don't need it. Except that in big doses the hormonal boost is nice. I don't need to think about any dosing schedules and supplementing as my mind, brain and body seem to have adjusted to a whole healthier and calm. Chronic use of St. John's has been the biggest culprit to return me to a positive, sociable and happy person. Bacopa has removed anxiety tendencies and among with Ginseng got me in touch with my character and cognitive issues are gone too. And these seem to be lasting results unlike with Ashwagandha where I had to keep dosing several times a day and watch when it wears off etc. At some point last year I was using the strongest Ashwagandha extract 3 times a day to keep horrible anxiety and shit away, so the difference is huge.

Galaxyshock, I am going to combine (Perika) St John's Wort and Panax Ginseng, too - currently waiting for both to arrive. Probably gonna throw Rhodiola Rosea in there too, if needed.
However, I am a bit hesitant to try Bacopa, despite having a full bottle from Mindnutrition sitting on my table for a few weeks...

The thing is, Bacopa is the only one of the bunch I read allmost as much negative anecdotal reports about as positive ones around here...
Some claim that while boosting memory, it may actually decrease libido and increase anxiety due to excess serotonine. Then again that was only mentioned in conjunction with the Uridine-Stack, so it's probably just a concern in that context?

Also, from your experience, how would you judge St Johns wort's abilitys to raise motivation on a dopaminergic level? I know it pretty much raises all catecholamines, but since my motivational problems are much worse than my mild anxiety, excess serotonin is allways a huge problem for me and makes me much worse...

Bacopa decreases cyclic AMP while Ginseng raises it. While Bacopa alone can be somewhat demasculinizing and definitely serotonergic, Ginseng alone quite "heating" and stimulative, together these issues seem to cancel out and you have very nice synergistic combination. Both have the capacity to reverse stress-induced changes in neurotransmission - something that Ashwagandha lacks, altough it's an effective remedy/treatment. St. John's upregulates 5-HT2A and Ginseng has agonizing effect at the receptor - together a synergistic and very therapeutic effect for anhedonia, depressive issues, and it's overall a very mind opening experience. Perika St. John's is quite activating at least with Ginseng. I find the motivation directs towards going out, meeting people, living life - perhaps not so much for work etc. But doesn't hurt the output either. Perika has more affinity at dopamine-noradrenaline than most brands. I like Rhodiola for extra boost too, goes fine with the other supps. Mucuna may also be considered for dopamine, and it synergizes with Rhodiola, but start slow and see where SJW, Ginseng and Bacopa takes you.

[chris106]

Galaxyshock, you are the best! ^_^

This is the single best, yet comprehensive explanation of working mechanisms of compounds I've ever read around here - being still on an amateur level myself when it comes to brain-chemistry, it would have taken me ages to figure these synergies out!

This sounds very promising - and here I was just literally one click away from ordering selegiline, but now I will try this out first! From my experience, adaptogens are a much safer and more promising alternative (especially long term) than chemical stims...

As soon as I get all the supps together, I'll let you know how it works! Thanx again!

[bob12]

Is it ok to take SAM-e 400 with SJW, Ashwagandha, Bacopa, and Ginseng?

[Guardian4981]

When I took ashwaghanda recently I experienced a surge in libido yet it was very challenging to actually "finish," too much gaba?

[chris106]

When I took ashwaghanda recently I experienced a surge in libido yet it was very challenging to actually "finish," too much gaba?

Why, what have we here? As someone who suffers from quite a severe case of PE, this sounds VERY interesting to me... Might I ask at which dose this "problem" occured...?

[Guardian4981]

When I took ashwaghanda recently I experienced a surge in libido yet it was very challenging to actually "finish," too much gaba?

Why, what have we here? As someone who suffers from quite a severe case of PE, this sounds VERY interesting to me... Might I ask at which dose this "problem" occured...?

I took Nutri Gold brand ashwaghanda on and off, only one capsule a day. Most of nutri gold products are potent and quality.

I could see opportunities to use it for that purpose though I wouldn't want to deal with that all the time.

[machete234]

When I took ashwaghanda recently I experienced a surge in libido yet it was very challenging to actually "finish," too much gaba?

Why, what have we here? As someone who suffers from quite a severe case of PE, this sounds VERY interesting to me... Might I ask at which dose this "problem" occured...?

Read the multi orgasmic man by matak chia, you wont become multiorgasmic because its BS imho but you will
learn control.

Also take drugs that relax muscles, reason: the muscle that triggers the ejaculation is the pc muscle, if that is relaxed it starts later.
A drug like GHB can do this

[chris106]

Thanx for your advice guys! Not to derail this thread, just one last comment from me - I allready succeeded in this by combining low dose anafranil with low dose tramadol - but since this of course isn't the safest combination and can only be used occasionally, a milder adaptogen solution in form of ashwagandha would be more than welcome!

I only have organic root powder ATM though, which is way less potent I guess. Will try the Nutri Gold brand once I find the time, will report back if this actually works and probably open up a new thread regarding this "special" topic

EDIT:

A drug like GHB can do this

Definetely, but GHB is quite hard to come by in Germany - would Phenibut likely do the trick, or is it not potent enough? (no pun intended -_-')

Edited by chris106, 07 June 2013 - 07:48 PM.