816 replies to this topic

[vtrader]

Every time I try it now I get some strange dull face/cheek ache. I've been to the dentist so nothing wrong there, it only happens on the days I take ash.

Anyone else experience or now why this is?

[BlueCloud]

I've been reading here and there ( on this forum ) that Ashwagandha is a beta hydroxylase inhibitor ( prevents dopamine from being converted into norepinehrine, thus allowing more dopamine to be available in the brain ), however I can't find any reference or paper concerning this. Anyone has a link to a paper confirming this ?

[Jimmart]

I've taken 400mg of Ashwagandha extract standardized to 5% Withanolides for about 5 weeks.
For the first 3 weeks I took it in two divided doses, 200mg in the morning and 200mg in the evening but realised that if taken in the morning it made me tired, unmotivated, dull, kinda like a dumbed-down-state and because of that I left out the morning dose and took 400mg in the evening instead.

To be honest, I'm kind of disappointed with ashwagandha, probably because my expectations were high due to all the hype I've read about this herb.
Before I ordered the extract I had been using a whole-ground root powder and decided to order an extract instead because I hadn't noticed any effect whatsoever.

So far the extract hasn't had any positive effect on my social anxiety nor any noticeable effect on stress or sleep quality.
Although it makes me abit tired, it's not the kind of "sleepy tiredness", don't know how to explain it.

I will continue to take 400mg ash/day and will post a follow-up after some weeks if i've noticed any new effects.

[Andrey_81]

Hi!
Small update. Ashwagandha still works for me and I never make any breaks (not even a day). This works for me for the past few months without any problems and there is no need to raise the dosage (I usually take up to 500 mg of extract (250 in the morning after morning coffee) and again 250 afternoon when I feel the need.

Interesting, ashwagandha works for me better if I feel worse. Therefore I take the second pill when I feel that I need it (not every day in the same time). Many users reported the same, ashw. works better if you feel really bad. If I feel 'normal' and take ashw. I will just be more calm and relaxed. But if I feel really anxious I will feel this strong effect in just few minutes. Sometimes it happens that I need to take additional pill in short time (500 mg in 2 hours), but this is really rarely.

I have zero side effects so I'm not planing to quit. For me it goes well after coffee because it kills anxiety from caffeine, so you will be more energized but still 'normal'.

I received many private messages from the users who tried ashw. Some have amazing experience (like me) and some say that they cannot feel the difference. Some people are very sleepy after intake (I don't have this problem). Some people reported extreme desire for sex (I cannot feel the difference, I'm too young ) ... so every person is different. Few people reported better sleep if taken before bed ( I had this experience and I used to take it everyday before bed, but after a while it lost it's effect and I started to wake up during sleep, for me schizandra before bed works better).

I think that ashw. is worth trying. it's inexpensive, it doesn't build tolerance (at least in my case and i'm chronic user) and it works in most cases. I also think that you should no rely on too strong extracts. It's better to try lower doses because from what I read some strong extracts can make you really sleepy.

[jetmango]

Andrey, good summary well done

I agree on all, while it is worth to point out that increased sex desire in sme ppl might be due to GABA - GHB/GBL has the same effect.

Also, only thing I would add is just watch out for GABA down regulation on higher doses/long term use especially if your neurotransmitters are screwed up due to substance [drugs, caffeine, alcohol] abuse
- apart from that - ashwa is a one damn good looking herb

[bzyb]

nice study Andrey glad it worked for you. It's working somewhat for me (knock on wood) but I have to play around with stacks and dosages, because sometimes it makes me feel wanting to spend time alone, a little withdrawn...but it is a very good anxiolytic so far. I was reading ScienceGuy's treating anxiety thread and he doesn't seem to be a fan of it, but hey everybody's brain chemistry is different!

[HoldingTheFaith]

Andrey didn´t you try the famous "sensoril" after all? I have already decided I will try Ashwagandha and Schizandra for my social anxiety, HPA dysregulation and severe sleep problems but haven´t decided yet if sensoril or himalaya for the ash. I know both should have an effect but I wonder which is better. I cannot fail more trials of supplements.

[beforeme12]

Ear ringing is caused due to brahmi, I had started using brahmi (by himalya) an year ago and stopped and still it rigs lightly.

I have now started using ashwagandha and its giving me exactly same results what you have described as well as I face same problems as you do.

Along with Ashwagandha I started to use Brahmi , it again created same ringing sound in my ears , I belive its something wrong with Himalya brahmi or either my body is not adapting that.

I will only continue Ashwagandha (Himalya) for tht it gives outstanding results iam feeling like never tired no mental fatigue even.

[jetmango]

I did not noticed any ear ringing, maybe this is somewhat releated to your nervous system being out of balance and this is kind of autonomic hyperarousal burned up by ashwagandha?

Sometimes it might work that way.

[brink]

After reading this article/doing some research I decided I might go and buy some ashwagandha! I would like to know what brand is known to be most effective..as well as what type of ashwagandha provides the most anti-anxiety relief. Some of the products I have looked at have all different types/variations of ashwagandha listed on the label and I'm not sure what to be looking for.

Also, I'm currently taking 100 mg of Sertraline, which is an SSRI antidepressant. I am slowly weaning off of it...but is it safe to take ashwagandha whilst on the SSRI? Thanks for the help in advance!

[jetmango]

I would say - nope.

Do not mix it with drugs like that.

Also, do not expect wonders. If you are on some SSRI ashwagandha is rather less potent, but more healthy from other side... your SSRI did not helped at all?

I recommend Himalaya brand Ashwagandha- feels most natural and okay to me :] also few other ppl tried it before and like it, too.

Edited by mangoa, 21 January 2014 - 12:53 AM.

[brink]

I am not sure how much the SSRI helped or not because some of my symptoms still show up. Regardless it's not working as much as I'd like it to.

I don't have debilitating anxiety...it's more or less social and situational. The physical symptoms such as sweating and facial flushing are amongst the two symptoms that are the biggest problems. I don't have anxiety about being in social situations, I just have anxiety about those symptoms occurring. In any event the anxiety does exist. Needless to say quieting the overthinking and worrying going on in my head would be fantastic. I don't expect wonders to happen, but after reading some of the posts, it seemed to help the symptoms I mentioned above..so who's to say it won't for me!

So Himalaya is a pretty reputable brand for ashwagandha?

[Healthyfreek]

Andrey didn´t you try the famous "sensoril" after all? I have already decided I will try Ashwagandha and Schizandra for my social anxiety, HPA dysregulation and severe sleep problems but haven´t decided yet if sensoril or himalaya for the ash. I know both should have an effect but I wonder which is better. I cannot fail more trials of supplements.

I would strongly suggest not to use Sensoril. It is a root and leaf extract of ashwagandha. I have done quite a lot of research on ashwagandha since it is my most favorite herb among all the adaptogens. Ashwagandha is supposed to be a root extract and not a leaf extract. Traditional books clearly mentions that it is the root that is responsible for the adaptogenic properties. Leaves are good for external dermatological problems, but are toxic when consumed internally.

I recently tried Nutrigold ashwagandha which contains "so called" Worlds best ashwagandha KSM-66 extract. I just love this product and do feel the difference compared to other ashwagandha i have tried previously. KSM-66 is also organic and is backed by multiple clinical studies. This product is also sold by Swanson now. You can also try Ashwagandha from an another company called "Organic India".

I think for your problem of severe lack of sleep, ashwagandha combined with L-theanine would work well. Wonder if you have ever tried that?

I am not sure how much the SSRI helped or not because some of my symptoms still show up. Regardless it's not working as much as I'd like it to.

I don't have debilitating anxiety...it's more or less social and situational. The physical symptoms such as sweating and facial flushing are amongst the two symptoms that are the biggest problems. I don't have anxiety about being in social situations, I just have anxiety about those symptoms occurring. In any event the anxiety does exist. Needless to say quieting the overthinking and worrying going on in my head would be fantastic. I don't expect wonders to happen, but after reading some of the posts, it seemed to help the symptoms I mentioned above..so who's to say it won't for me!

So Himalaya is a pretty reputable brand for ashwagandha?

Hi. If you closely look at Himalaya USA's ashwagandha, it contains only 2.96 mg total withanolides, whereas Nutrigold guarantees a minimum of 15 mg withanolides. I also glanced through the official website of KSM-66. Though a lot of it has technical stuff, but the information was quite useful. I think the most unique thing about KSM-66 that I found was that it was a root extract and something called "full-spectrum". I guess full spectrum means that it resembles the raw root powder in composition but has the highest potency. You can also try swanson ashwagandha as that too carries KSM-66

[Healthyfreek]

Hi!
Small update. Ashwagandha still works for me and I never make any breaks (not even a day). This works for me for the past few months without any problems and there is no need to raise the dosage (I usually take up to 500 mg of extract (250 in the morning after morning coffee) and again 250 afternoon when I feel the need.

Interesting, ashwagandha works for me better if I feel worse. Therefore I take the second pill when I feel that I need it (not every day in the same time). Many users reported the same, ashw. works better if you feel really bad. If I feel 'normal' and take ashw. I will just be more calm and relaxed. But if I feel really anxious I will feel this strong effect in just few minutes. Sometimes it happens that I need to take additional pill in short time (500 mg in 2 hours), but this is really rarely.

I have zero side effects so I'm not planing to quit. For me it goes well after coffee because it kills anxiety from caffeine, so you will be more energized but still 'normal'.

I received many private messages from the users who tried ashw. Some have amazing experience (like me) and some say that they cannot feel the difference. Some people are very sleepy after intake (I don't have this problem). Some people reported extreme desire for sex (I cannot feel the difference, I'm too young ) ... so every person is different. Few people reported better sleep if taken before bed ( I had this experience and I used to take it everyday before bed, but after a while it lost it's effect and I started to wake up during sleep, for me schizandra before bed works better).

I think that ashw. is worth trying. it's inexpensive, it doesn't build tolerance (at least in my case and i'm chronic user) and it works in most cases. I also think that you should no rely on too strong extracts. It's better to try lower doses because from what I read some strong extracts can make you really sleepy.

Hi Andrey, I am glad that you started this post on ashwagandha, which happens to be my favorite herb too. I experience great benefits with it. I take two capsules every day (Nutrigold KSM-66). When I take in the morning with food, I feel energetic the entire day. I take the second capsule in the night, 30 min before going to bed. It actually puts me to sleep like that of a calming baby. Thats the reason it is rightly called the prince of ayurvedic herbs and is the best adaptogen known. Moreover, it is certainly cheaper and does not have any side effects. What is important is the right dosage at the right time. Thanks

[Andrey_81]

Not sure about 'Organic India'. They do not sell extract and for me extract works really fast. Regarding Himalaya, it does contain 2.96 mg total withanolides, but this is enough. In comparison NOW Food extract is much stronger but then I receive negative feedback and people complain that it is just too strong and makes the user sleepy. For me it's better to take milder extract few times per day. I stick with Himalaya brand and it still does the trick after almost 2 years of use.

[Andrey_81]

There is a product called EuroPharma Terry Naturally Adaptra which contains KSM-66 ashwagandha together with rhodiola rosea. This could be worth trying considering that it contains KSM-66 and the synergy of 2 probably the best available adaptogen herbs...

[Healthyfreek]

Not sure about 'Organic India'. They do not sell extract and for me extract works really fast. Regarding Himalaya, it does contain 2.96 mg total withanolides, but this is enough. In comparison NOW Food extract is much stronger but then I receive negative feedback and people complain that it is just too strong and makes the user sleepy. For me it's better to take milder extract few times per day. I stick with Himalaya brand and it still does the trick after almost 2 years of use.

I agree that extracts work better than grinded root powder. I did investigate Himalaya ashwagandha initially, but was wary of trying it since they use "super-critical" extracts which is done by C02 extraction. I have read some articles where the government and food authorities do not recognize this type of extraction. I think the beauty of KSM-66 nutrigold is that it is a full spectrum extract. It is said that for any botanical to have efficacy, all the constituents in the herb play an important role. It is called as herb-intelligence, wherein every component should be present in right proportion. The extract of himalaya either uses alcohol extraction or supercritical extraction, which leaves out quite a lot of components behind which are not soluble in alcohol. They stress only on a single constituent which is withanolides. KSM-66 nutrigold/swanson is not just a full-spectrum extract (they say that they do not use any solvents or alcohol/chemicals for extraction), but it also has the highest optimum concentration of withanolides from the root. Moreover, KSM-66 claims that it has more clinical evidence than any other ashwagandha, and it won "Best botanical" award at the largest natural products show. Initially, i was quiet skeptic in trying it since a lot of companies make tall marketing claims, but after trying it once, I do not feel like switching over to any other ashwagandha.

Anyway, I am sure himalaya is working well for you, and you are happy. But I would strongly recommend to once try nutrigold ashwagandha.

There is a product called EuroPharma Terry Naturally Adaptra which contains KSM-66 ashwagandha together with rhodiola rosea. This could be worth trying considering that it contains KSM-66 and the synergy of 2 probably the best available adaptogen herbs...

Andrey, can you also recommend any other adaptogens which might work well with ashwagandha? will it be safe to have 2 or 3 adaptogens at the same time? Would you recommend any brand for a single herb Rhodiola extract?

[Andrey_81]

Few days ago I added Taurine in my daily regime. I take 1-2 g in the morning. Will see how it will go with ashwagandha and rhodiola, but for now I feel good. Will keep you informed.

[Andrey_81]

Andrey, can you also recommend any other adaptogens which might work well with ashwagandha? will it be safe to have 2 or 3 adaptogens at the same time? Would you recommend any brand for a single herb Rhodiola extract?

I used to take now foods but then I started with jarrow and it works much better. The difference is that now foods contains 3% Total Rosavins and min. 1% Salidrosides while jarrow contains only Rosavins (5%). I read some articles about how this Salidrosides can have negative effect and from that time I stick only with Rosavins

The diference is that I really felt the rush of energy from now f, but sometimes I felt stronger anxiety (if I took too much). I never had this 'side effect' from jarrow even on higher doses.

You can also try Schizandra. I take it before bed.

Edited by Andrey_81, 21 January 2014 - 10:46 AM.

[Healthyfreek]

Thank you. How about combining ashwagandha with ginseng? I believe both are very powerful adaptogens from their respective systems of medicine. There is a product that I just came across which is "PLAN 200" by Purity products. It has KSM-66 and Cereboost ginseng, but this looks to be a fairly new product and there are no enough reviews available.

[Andrey_81]

Thank you. How about combining ashwagandha with ginseng? I believe both are very powerful adaptogens from their respective systems of medicine. There is a product that I just came across which is "PLAN 200" by Purity products. It has KSM-66 and Cereboost ginseng, but this looks to be a fairly new product and there are no enough reviews available.

I used to take ashwagandha and rhodiola in combination with panax ginseng. I think that panax with rhodiola gives a boost of energy and I was a little bit more aggressive during that time. Not sure what to say, I feel good without it so it's probably not crucial supplement for me.

[jetmango]

Hehe seems like eternal topic here regarding ashwagandha

"KSM-66 nutrigold/swanson is not just a full-spectrum extract (they say that they do not use any solvents or alcohol/chemicals for extraction), but it also has the highest optimum concentration of withanolides from the root." - I agree with that. First of all I was taking KSM-66 extract from SuperSmart.com, and it was very strong but sometimes it is not what you want. So, I was mixing it with Ashwa from Himalaya, which contains all parts from the herb and it is mlder in action and you can feel it is like more natural version of it. Might be a placebo, though.

The one frmo SuperSmart.com / smartcity store has 5% withanolides / 300mg capsule and at the beginning of my therapy it was making me really sleepy + giving me headaches. Nothing really bad, just an ordinary headache and being tired.

Also, I still have problems falling asleep even when using ashwagandha, so thats just probably me specifically.

According to mixing it with other herbs - Rhodiola works well, but dont overdo it, as ashwagandha is calming vata according to ayurveda, and rhodiola is aggravating it.

The other good mix is Panax Ginseng, as already mentioned.

I would also add Gotu Kola. Basically u can mix ginseng, gotu kola, rhodiola and ashwagandha as u want, because all of them are synergistic to each other.


Last thing: Brink - can you tell me if you are using any kind of drugs, etc? Are you maybe a heavy alcohol/ caffeine /nicotine /marihuana etc. user?

A big part of all anxieties come from overstimulating your nervous system, specifically its dopamine/GABA/serotonin/acetylocholine pathways. Even things like frequent orgasms/porn use/masturbation cause dopamine depletion [it sounds funny but dig the net for the topic and you will see what I'm talking about]. What might help you is a complete detoxification of your nervous system, and I mean complete. So cut off any kind of legal/illegal drugs, cut off orgasms start excercising regularly, introduce yoga and meditation. You need at least few months to be okay, but you probably can do it yourself, without adding any more chemicals into your body. Good luck

[machete234]

Hi. If you closely look at Himalaya USA's ashwagandha, it contains only 2.96 mg total withanolides, whereas Nutrigold guarantees a minimum of 15 mg withanolides. I also glanced through the official website of KSM-66. Though a lot of it has technical stuff, but the information was quite useful. I think the most unique thing about KSM-66 that I found was that it was a root extract and something called "full-spectrum". I guess full spectrum means that it resembles the raw root powder in composition but has the highest potency. You can also try swanson ashwagandha as that too carries KSM-66

I took really high dosages of AWG extracts but it gives you more problems than herb or say a pill that works as strong as the normal amount of herb you would consume.
Himalaya is good dosage wise and the most I ever take is maybe 3 before public speaking.
15mg would be too much and make me feel tired and drowsy. (But you cannot really overdose on this tired and drowsy and a headache in the morning is all you can get)

[jetmango]

Exactly. mostly because as it was already stated the herb is not an extract, and one should stay in line with nature as much as it is possible

[brink]

Thank you all for the useful information on Ashwagandha. I think I might try out the Himalaya brand for a couple reasons. One being that I would like to take as low of a dose as possible, and the second being that I'd like to stay as "natural" as possible.

mangoa - I don't smoke cigarettes or maijuana, do any drugs, nor drink excessive amounts of coffee. Alcohol usually once a night on the weekends which is definitely a a huge decrease over the years since graduating college haha! In terms of the porn and masturbation..it's funny you mention that. I recently came across a few articles before I found this site, and then again on these forums that I read. Use to be a once or twice a day thing...and I am trying to "detox" for awhile to see if it actually does help!

I know natural treatments doesn't necessarily mean safer...but after some research, I'd much rather be on something like ashwagandha than an SSRI. So for the time being I might make the transition and use ashwa as a crutch to hopefully be med free in the future.

I don't want to go off topic (I think this post is absolutely fantastic)...but in the event that the ashwagandha does not work...I was also researching a product that contained L-Theanine with Lemon Balm which have both been used for anxiety. Has anyone had any experience with either of the two? Can/should it be supplemented with ashwagandha?

[jetmango]

a little bit off topic here, but addiction to pornography/frequent orgasms/masturbation is the next big thing, and I believe in 10-20 years it will be diagnosed exactly as other compulsive obsesive disorders/addictions. It completely depletes brain from dopamine [if u went through mechanisms of ogasms and arousal you will see that it includes releasing large amounts of dopamine - exactly as alcohol, nicotine or caffeine - other 'legal' drugs ] now, most drugs works by producing euphoria due to dopamine release [amphetamine, cocaine] few woks through serotonine mostly [MDMA] etc. and if someone is doing that daily for 10-20 years... then u can imagine level of damage being done.

I'm not saying it is bad when u do it in a balanced way - but there is no way evolution has made us ready to high speed internet porn and several orgasms every day. combination of porn/masturbation/orgasms is simply a dopamine releasing agent, a new drug. causing also other bad things to happen like erectile disfunction , depression, social anxiety disorder and plenty of others. Why? Because our brain loses the natural defence wall in terms of normal dopamine function.

I've tried dozens of natural and not-so-natural drugs over there to help me with anxiety/social phobias/panic attacks - ashwagandha was one of the best, but it did not heal me. It just put a layer of GABA induced calmness over my fear, and I needed to stop taking it after 2,5 months anyway [I dont want to be hooked on something forever and also it wasnt doing any more good for me either] and all of the symptoms came back. Now I'm trying a last option - cut off everything that is habitual or proven bad - cigarettes, caffeine [tough one as u cant even drink normal tea!], alcohol, P/M/O and so on. What is funny I've found out that cutting out orgasms/porn was the most beneficial thing to do! Before I was a habitual P/M/O like most of men, nowadays. And they even saying its pretty normal to do it! Well, it's not!

http://www.yourbrainonporn.com/ check this page, as I dont want to go off topic. Basically if this would not work I will go for shit like SSRI drugs but this is last resort. AFAIK they are not doing any much help either and its just adding bad chemicals to your organism. I want to avoid that at all cost.

Unfortunately, if we were screwing our bodies out for several years then u need long time to balance them again. But yeah - its definetely better to go FROM SSRI to something like ashwagandha and natural methods, than choose the other way around

and finally :D lemon balm - used to drink a tea with it for several months. Helped me to fall asleep if I drank it and went straight to bed. Otherwise no big deal. Did not touched my anxiety as such. So, I would say just a 5% boost u can use to support your other methods. Also check topic on longecity about lemon balm - it is worth mentioning that it down-regulates GABA. Slightly, but for sure.

[Healthyfreek]

Exactly. mostly because as it was already stated the herb is not an extract, and one should stay in line with nature as much as it is possible

@Mangoa- Nice explanation. But if you carefully look at Himalaya, they use two different extracts - super critical and hydro-alcohol. As you mentioned that one should stay in line with nature as much as it is possible, this is where I found KSM-66 to have an edge over other ashwagandha. This is the only product which claims to be full-spectrum because of their process. The extracts like supercritical and the ones extracted by alcohol or water leave a lot of components behind and are never full-spectrum, since these other important components are not soluble in the respective medium. That is when I discovered this ashwagandha from nutrigold brand and my entire family and friends have gotten fond of this. In fact, I might call it as addiction which is certainly not good. But I just cant do without this now. :-) I wish your experience with supersmart would have been a good one. I tried researching about this product and found it too expensive compared to other products containing KSM-66. :-)

[jetmango]

hmm so basically every KSM-66 should be exactly the same [both in contents an in action] no? yeah it was not cheaper but I was looking for something fast and they were the fastest back then

[brink]

mangoa - i believe that explanation above about the addiction to certain things is right on point. i really never thought about it like that until recently.

Healthyfreek - what is the full brand name you are suggesting to take in place of himalaya? i am a little confused at what you are endorsing in opposition to what mangoa is?

[jetmango]

Yeah addictions come in a different shapes and forms and most people dont even recognize the real cause of the problems/anxieties they r having. I mean they take benzodiazepines to kill fear caused from constantly depleted dopamine reserves in their brains... that is being caused by releasing that dopamine during several orgasms per day for dozens of years... which meant to be healthy but isn't ;-)
[and the society keeps telling lies like 'if you are real man you need to have sex 25 times per week' lol well maybe u can, but without O. that's the thing and if u look deeper all ancient techniques like tantra or karezza actually promotes the sexual act itself but not orgasms as they are killing higher energy levels, especially in men] ok end of OT. :]



Well, I was taking Himalaya brand http://uk.iherb.com/...vw&gclsrc=aw.ds

and more potent KSM-66 extract from Supersmart http://www.supersmar...hwagandha--0582

The Himalaya was my 2nd purchase as I've found KSM-66 too strong and there was no point in putting half of a capsule in the rubbish bin. Also, switching from the KSM-66 to Himalaya and taking it alternately seems to help when the tolerance built up [with me it was around a month, maybe 1,5 when I've felt it]

I am sure you cant go terribly wrong here, just check different brands and see what will work for ya

Edited by mangoa, 22 January 2014 - 07:09 PM.