816 replies to this topic

[HoldingTheFaith]

More than addiction I would use the term "need". For example, if you have insomnia which screws your life and discover x supplement that "fixes" it, you may find that when the Goverment makes it illegal you are fucked. That is the case of a blogger I read recently. Is that an addiction? Not really, and certainty is worse than an addiction, which you can eventually solve with willpower and lifestyle modification.

I decided to go with sensoril, for what is worth. I´ll update about my experience.

[Healthyfreek]

mangoa - i believe that explanation above about the addiction to certain things is right on point. i really never thought about it like that until recently.

Healthyfreek - what is the full brand name you are suggesting to take in place of himalaya? i am a little confused at what you are endorsing in opposition to what mangoa is?

@Brink: I was suggesting an extract of ashwagandha called KSM-66 (they claim it to be the world's best and have won best botanical award at a natural product show). This ingredient can be found in various products like
nutrigold (they have got amazing reviews too) http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/B0058GXIYG
swanson http://www.swansonvi...-mg-60-veg-caps
Europharma http://www.europharm...oducts/adaptra/
Dr.David Williams http://www.healthydi...ight-mood-plus/ looks like a nice product, and will try.

Mangoa did not had a great experience with a brand of KSM, whereas I and my family find that it work wonders. We both are not much in opposition. What he is suggesting and even what i suggest is that you can try KSM-66 product for some time. If you find it effective, carry on, else can switch over to an another brand later.

[Andrey_81]

Few days ago I added Taurine in my daily regime. I take 1-2 g in the morning. Will see how it will go with ashwagandha and rhodiola, but for now I feel good. Will keep you informed.

After almost a week of Taurine use I can confirm that in combination with ashwagandha and rhodiola (and coffee) this thing works just amazing! This is for sure not placebo. I take it every morning after coffee (1-2 g) and before workout. I'm confident and anxious free like never before. It's worth trying because it's really cheap. I found this:

Taurine is an amino acid that calms the nervous system by facilitating the production of the neurotransmitter GABA, which stands for gamma-aminobutyric acid. By helping to raise GABA levels, taurine will allow your body to manage anxiety so that your thoughts don’t go spiraling out of control and you don’t get the associated cortisol and adrenaline spikes that go with anxiety and stress.

Research shows that taurine supplementation can lower anxiety in stress-producing situations, thereby allowing for greater work output and performance. One study in Advances in Experimental Medicines and Biology found that giving rats a taurine treatment prior to an anxiety-inducing exercise maze resulted in less anxious behavior and better speed through the maze a rat group that were given a placebo.

A second study in Pharmacology, Biochemistry, and Behavior found similar results in that taurine lowered anxiety and increased performance on a test that combined cognitive and physical elements. In this study, also performed on rats, found that those that received the taurine demonstrated greater social interaction, which as an indicator or less stress and anxiety.

Take taurine for better brain function. Taurine can delay the cognitive decline that comes with aging. It can improve learning and retention in older individuals and will aid the development of cognitive function in children.

Interestingly, research shows taurine will improve reaction time and minimize sleepiness in sleep-deprived individuals when paired with caffeine. A new study in the British Journal of Surgery tested the effects of a placebo, caffeine, or caffeine with taurine on surgery performance in sleep-deprived novice surgeons. The caffeine plus taurine reversed the negative effects of reaction time due to fatigue and minimized feelings of sleepiness, although not to baseline levels.

Researchers suggest that the combination is ideal because caffeine provides the stimulus, while taurine has a calming affect that functions as an anti-fatiguer. Green tea paired with taurine and carnitine can be very effective when in a sleep-deprived state because this mixture helps to manage anxiety and improve energy and focus.

Whole article can be found here:
http://www.poliquing...of_Taurine.aspx

[Babychris]

I've become a big fan of taurine (relatively to other supplements) since I've found it has virtually no side-effects, and a very noticeable but short-acting good effects. I think that the best is to keep some pure bulk of Taurine and to take it when you have an overload of stress.

[jetmango]

Very interesting! I will try to get taurine tomorrow, I'm eating fish only and oher meat very rarely so this might be helpful.. also, I dont see how taking anything longer than 1-2 months can be beneficial, as the body gets used to it, tolerance builds up, and you will always get some kind of side effects. Maybe it will sound strange but the way I see it now is this:there is no magic molecule, or universal formula that will work forever and cure all problems, you can use ginseng for maybe a month or so, but if you continue to do it u get strong headaches as your body will say 'that's enough' .. you can't be overstimulated all the time, or take depressant acting on GABA [ashwagandha?] with stimulant acting on dopamine release [caffeine?] and expect this mix to be healthy... it will work at the beginning and for sure it will work very GOOD but on the long run you will be only screwing up your neurotransmitters. Been there... remember that every supplement is just that- and it all should lead to a point when you wouldn't need to take any kind of supplements to feel allright/normal. Because as in nature if something goes up, it has to come down at some point.

Back to taurine - if it makes more GABA, does it cause any kind of tolerance/downregulation of GABA receptors?


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18605241
Effect of taurine on the concentrations of glutamate, GABA, glutamine and alanine in the rat striatum and hippocampus.

Molchanova SM, Oja SS, Saransaari P.

Author information


Abstract


Taurine, a non-protein amino acid, acts as an osmoregulator and inhibitory neuromodulator in the brain. Here we studied the effects of intraperitoneal injections of taurine on the concentrations of glutamate and GABA, and their precursors, glutamine and alanine, in the rat striatum and hippocampus. Injections of 0.25, 0.5 and 1 g/kg taurine led to a gradual increase in taurine tissue concentrations in both hippocampus and striatum. Glutamate and GABA also increased in the hippocampus, but not in the striatum. Glutamine increased and alanine decreased markedly in both brain structures. The results corroborate the neuromodulatory role of taurine in the brain. Taurine administration results in an imbalance in inhibitory and excitatory neurotransmission in the glutamatergic (hippocampus) and GABAergic (striatum) brain structures, affecting more markedly the neurotransmitter precursors. PMID: 18605241 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Edited by mangoa, 23 January 2014 - 11:11 PM.

[brink]

so if I am understanding this correctly..the nutrigold brand has a higher percentage of withanolide which is responsible for the anti-anxiety properties of ashw? are there any other significant differences? i'd like to start with as low of a dose as possible, and increase from there.

another thing i'm curious about is the effect ashw has on the thyroid. i had my thyroid levels checked not to long ago..and everything was fine. i read that ashw can affect these levels if something is wrong. if nothing is out of balance with your thyroid, will ashw still affect it?

[Andrey_81]

I've become a big fan of taurine (relatively to other supplements) since I've found it has virtually no side-effects, and a very noticeable but short-acting good effects. I think that the best is to keep some pure bulk of Taurine and to take it when you have an overload of stress.

Hi! Is it possible to build tolerance on Taurin? This stuff makes wonders. I'm confident like never in my life and when it comes to public speech, I'm the one who speaks more than others. Yesterday and this morning I had some fight with my boss and I wasn't scared or anxious at all. I'm not afraid to say what I mean and it's not a problem for me to defend myself. This is a huge difference. I'm talking about ashwagandha-rhodiola-taurine-caffeine mix. Now it's my 7th day on this mix, and every day I'm getting better and better. I hope that this feeling will not fade in the future.

Edited by Andrey_81, 24 January 2014 - 09:09 AM.

[Babychris]

Theorically, you could have some tolerance issue, but the pathway used by the taurine is elegant enough to deliver it's nectar on a long-term basis and without need to stop the use of it more than 1 or 2 days. Anyway you may meet some resistance in your body faster with rhodiola which must be use with care in regards to keep the effects straight.
Your combo seems good, maybe a bit anxiogenic for me though, but you seem to be confident and don't have particular anxiety condition, but be carefull with rhodiola as I've told you, and don't neglect caffeine tolerance, but you'll still have some alternative afterward though.

[Healthyfreek]

so if I am understanding this correctly..the nutrigold brand has a higher percentage of withanolide which is responsible for the anti-anxiety properties of ashw? are there any other significant differences? i'd like to start with as low of a dose as possible, and increase from there.

another thing i'm curious about is the effect ashw has on the thyroid. i had my thyroid levels checked not to long ago..and everything was fine. i read that ashw can affect these levels if something is wrong. if nothing is out of balance with your thyroid, will ashw still affect it?

@brink: I read something very interesting about ashwagandha's mechanism of action. It says that ashwagandha creates homeostasis in the body, i.e., balance in the body. In simple terms, if there is a hormone which is higher than what it should be, ashwagandha decreases it. And if there is a hormone lower than what it should be, ashwagandha increases it. It gets it to equilibrium. Unlike ginseng which is a stimulant, ashwagandha neither stimulates nor does it sedate. It creates perfect balance in the body.

There are a lot of ways how nutrigold that contains KSM-66 is better than other ashwagandha. You can read all those by clicking on this link http://www.nutrigold.com/Ashwagandha

Happy Health!!!

[jetmango]

^^^

you sounded like a company salesman )

just kidding. I would look for another source of data rather than just a website of the company that tries to sell the product. I'm not saying that they are lying, but its just a common sense u know
rhodiola is advertised in exactly same way - a miracle herb doing wonders but the truth is if u use it longer than 2-3 months it makes you more anxious and there is significant withdrawal syndrome afterwards. nobody mentioned that , of course as it will lower down the sales

I will stick to healthy scientific 'max one month' rule here. good luck

Edited by mangoa, 24 January 2014 - 02:40 PM.

[Babychris]

^^^

you sounded like a company salesman )

just kidding. I would look for another source of data rather than just a website of the company that tries to sell the product. I'm not saying that they are lying, but its just a common sense u know
rhodiola is advertised in exactly same way - a miracle herb doing wonders but the truth is if u use it longer than 2-3 months it makes you more anxious and there is significant withdrawal syndrome afterwards. nobody mentioned that , of course as it will lower down the sales

I will stick to healthy scientific 'max one month' rule here. good luck

That's true and that kind of anxiety is partially irreversible so that's not a funny part to say the least.

I'm kind of skeptical about ashwagandha, but I will give it a serious try ..

Edited by Babychris, 24 January 2014 - 03:35 PM.

[Andrey_81]

Today I only took 250 mg ashwagandha in the morning and it's almost 5 o'clock (PM) and I don't feel the need to take another one (?). This is not common. Before I had to take another after 5-6 hours.
I'm in the most stressful period due to my work and projects and I don't need more than 250 mg of ashwagandha???

What is the most interesting, I always take rhodiola first in the morning. Then after one half hour I drink coffee and then I take ashwagandha. I really feel that I need it. I'm not normal if I don't take it.
For the past few day my regime looks like this. I take rhodiola in the morning together with 1-2 mg of taurine and then immediately coffee. After half hour I take ashwagandha. Strange, but after I started with Taurin I don't feel the need to take ashwagandha. I feel 'normal' even if I don't take it. But if I take it, the feeling is even better and it last whole day without the need to take en extra dose of ashwagandha. Currently I'm living my best week in the last 15 years (regarding confidence, self-esteem, energy, speech skills). I just cannot believe this. My wife noticed that I speak clearly and more confident then ever.

What can be the reason for this? Does it makes sense that this is just temporally feeling due to the Taurin intake? Is it possible that taurin somehow makes ashwagandha stronger and longer lasting? I will for sure make 2 days break during the weakend (from taurin) in order not to build toleranc. Believe me, I tried all kind of shit, from propranolol, lexaurine, phenibut, noopept and I never expected miracles.

I go to gym 3-4 times per week. I usually take glutamine, creatine and whey. I started with Taurine because I wanted to add something in my pre-workout shake together with BCAA. I read about how taurine is good for muscles and decided to try. When I received my package, on the bottle it was stated: Taurine helps to generate and regulate nerve impulses and aids in the maintenance of fluid balance; it is also used by the body in visual pathways, as well as in the brain and nervous system, where it works together with glycine and GABA as a neurotransmitter.

Then I decided to take in every morning with my coffee and now I'm here writing this in extremely good mood
I'm confused, that's all I can say. I never expected something like this from taurine.

[Jeoshua]

Since I'm looking for something to reduce Cortisol, and having found a cheap bottle of Ashwaganda KSM66 on the net, I will be giving Ashwagandha a try. Note that everything that is on that website that Healthyfreek posted is true, even if it was marketing speak. You just have to learn to read through the haze of "buy from me!" and see the information on "why you should get something like this".

KSM66 is a high potency root-only extract. In the centuries of Ayrvedic usage, it was found that the root gives the best systemic effects. The leaves have a higher polyphenol content, but they also contain cytotoxic chemicals in a much higher proportion than the roots, and as such were used only for topical treatments, and as an astringent. To take the leaf extract (I'm looking at you, Sensoril and Full Spectrum extracts) is basically like taking medicine laced with hydrogen peroxide. It probably won't kill you, but it won't be a good idea, either.

So while Sensoril has a higher "potency", it's the wrong fraction of the plant, containing a lot of Withaferin A, a chemical that has only been found to be truly useful when fighting living cancer cells In-Vitro, and may anecdotally be beneficial for those undergoing chemotherapy by potentiating the effects of the treatment. This chemical is found in high amounts in the leaf extract of Ashwagandha.

Edited by Jeoshua, 24 January 2014 - 04:26 PM.

[jetmango]

Today I only took 250 mg ashwagandha in the morning and it's almost 5 o'clock (PM) and I don't feel the need to take another one (?). This is not common. Before I had to take another after 5-6 hours.
I'm in the most stressful period due to my work and projects and I don't need more than 250 mg of ashwagandha???

What is the most interesting, I always take rhodiola first in the morning. Then after one half hour I drink coffee and then I take ashwagandha. I really feel that I need it. I'm not normal if I don't take it.
For the past few day my regime looks like this. I take rhodiola in the morning together with 1-2 mg of taurine and then immediately coffee. After half hour I take ashwagandha. Strange, but after I started with Taurin I don't feel the need to take ashwagandha. I feel 'normal' even if I don't take it. But if I take it, the feeling is even better and it last whole day without the need to take en extra dose of ashwagandha. Currently I'm living my best week in the last 15 years (regarding confidence, self-esteem, energy, speech skills). I just cannot believe this. My wife noticed that I speak clearly and more confident then ever.

What can be the reason for this? Does it makes sense that this is just temporally feeling due to the Taurin intake? Is it possible that taurin somehow makes ashwagandha stronger and longer lasting? I will for sure make 2 days break during the weakend (from taurin) in order not to build toleranc. Believe me, I tried all kind of shit, from propranolol, lexaurine, phenibut, noopept and I never expected miracles.

I go to gym 3-4 times per week. I usually take glutamine, creatine and whey. I started with Taurine because I wanted to add something in my pre-workout shake together with BCAA. I read about how taurine is good for muscles and decided to try. When I received my package, on the bottle it was stated: Taurine helps to generate and regulate nerve impulses and aids in the maintenance of fluid balance; it is also used by the body in visual pathways, as well as in the brain and nervous system, where it works together with glycine and GABA as a neurotransmitter.

Then I decided to take in every morning with my coffee and now I'm here writing this in extremely good mood
I'm confused, that's all I can say. I never expected something like this from taurine.

I would say that one day of something working different is an exception, not a rule. See if that '250mg for the whole day' will last for like a month or more

So, when you take rhodiola and taurine during morning what you are doing is speeding up serotonine and dopamine production, whilst also boosting GABA.. then you release some excess dopamine with caffeine, and at the end take ashwagandha to kill the caffeine tremors with ashwa GABA-mimetic action. clever, but for the long term its just making mess with your brain [and thats only my opinion, it seems logical anyway ]

taurine GABA action might explain that you dont need to take another ashwa, though... but you see I strongly believe we ought to feel 'shit' sometimes, as life needs balance.
of course, if u feel only 'shit' or only 'great' then something is wrong [btw, that explain why they put taurine in redbull etc.. - it probably kills the initial high caffeine intake shock]
anyway, one week of feeling superb is not enough to make big statements- dont get me wrong- from a pure scientific point of view, you need more fixed periods than just 7 days. if something feels too good at the beginning, its usually too good to be true.. got that feeling with ashwagandha, rhodiola, ginseng and many more... like 'wow this is IT it makes me feel like I was 20 again...' etc. and then after few weeks the magic was gone

apart from that, I am exercising too and want to try taurine purely for aiding muscle growth- did you noticed any difference on that field?

also what nurtures me - if it boosts GABA, does it lowers dopamine? more study needed

Edited by mangoa, 24 January 2014 - 04:54 PM.

[Andrey_81]

@Mangoa, I totally agree with you. I'm not talking about one day difference, I'm talking about whole week. But, yes you are right, much more time is needed. I will see how this will go. I will stop with taurine during the weekend and try again on monday.

Regarding the muscles, I cannot say anything because you cannot feel the difference in only one week. It's not meant to build muscles but to help with performance (in my case it works because I'm motivated like never before).

[Healthyfreek]

Since I'm looking for something to reduce Cortisol, and having found a cheap bottle of Ashwaganda KSM66 on the net, I will be giving Ashwagandha a try. Note that everything that is on that website that Healthyfreek posted is true, even if it was marketing speak. You just have to learn to read through the haze of "buy from me!" and see the information on "why you should get something like this".

KSM66 is a high potency root-only extract. In the centuries of Ayrvedic usage, it was found that the root gives the best systemic effects. The leaves have a higher polyphenol content, but they also contain cytotoxic chemicals in a much higher proportion than the roots, and as such were used only for topical treatments, and as an astringent. To take the leaf extract (I'm looking at you, Sensoril and Full Spectrum extracts) is basically like taking medicine laced with hydrogen peroxide. It probably won't kill you, but it won't be a good idea, either.

So while Sensoril has a higher "potency", it's the wrong fraction of the plant, containing a lot of Withaferin A, a chemical that has only been found to be truly useful when fighting living cancer cells In-Vitro, and may anecdotally be beneficial for those undergoing chemotherapy by potentiating the effects of the treatment. This chemical is found in high amounts in the leaf extract of Ashwagandha.

@Mangoa: I take that as a compliment. Unfortunately, inspite of having interest in marketing, I have had a technical job in computers :-)

@Jeoshua: I just loved this phrase of yours- "To take the leaf extract (I'm looking at you, Sensoril and Full Spectrum extracts) is basically like taking medicine laced with hydrogen peroxide. It probably won't kill you, but it won't be a good idea, either." :-) Please let me know your experience with ashwagandha after a few days.

[NocicepticBoss]

I've started taking ~2.2g of Ashwagandha (2.5% Withanolides) at least two times daily. Though I'm not sure if it's doing anything. I think so, but it could be placebo. I'm also taking Bacopa. About 1g a day, 20% Bacosides.

The stuff I'm using is from: http://healthsupplem...act-bulk-powder

I've almost used all the caps that I capped. To the next batch I'm going to add <5mg noopept so that every "serving" (4 capsules of ~550mg) of Ashwagandha also has ~15-20mg of Noopept.

[HoldingTheFaith]

Currently I'm living my best week in the last 15 years (regarding confidence, self-esteem, energy, speech skills). I just cannot believe this. My wife noticed that I speak clearly and more confident then ever.

Gongratulations Andrey. That is absolutely awesome and gives me hope for my case. Have you find any sleep issues with Rhodiola? I really like Rhodiola from what I have gathered but often it causes insomnia in prone people so I will avoid it for now.

Hmmm you guys are knowledgeable. That´s why I entered this forum. I might not get sensoril at the end, we´ll see. I cannot get the oh-so-good KSM-66 because of shipping though. I normally only buy at iherb to avoid trouble. Sucks.

What about SAVESTA brand? 5% withanolides, root extract. Looks pretty cool.

Edited by HoldingTheFaith, 24 January 2014 - 07:37 PM.

[brink]

I think the most unique thing about KSM-66 that I found was that it was a root extract and something called "full-spectrum". I guess full spectrum means that it resembles the raw root powder in composition but has the highest potency. You can also try swanson ashwagandha as that too carries KSM-66

I thought you said full-spectrum was good? But you agreed with jeoshua about the comment he made on sensoril and "full spectrum extracts" being a bad idea to take. Unless of course you were talking about LEAF full spectrum extract as opposed to the root full spectrum extracts?

Edited by brink, 24 January 2014 - 09:56 PM.

[HoldingTheFaith]

C´mon, it isnt that hard. Full expectrum is a good thing, and KSM66 is a full spectrum extract. It´s all about the leafs and roots, thats the point. Full spectrum extracts aren´t that unique anyway. I have taken a couple of full blahblah herbal extracts that did nothing for me. Brand is what matters.

Either Savesta or Ayush Herbs should be good alternatives to KSM66 according to the root full spectrum 5% withanolides extract criteria for those using iherb. I will use Ayush Herbs once they respond to my email about the root extract.

Edited by HoldingTheFaith, 24 January 2014 - 11:31 PM.

[brink]

I know it's not that hard...but I don't see whats wrong with asking questions to obtain more knowledge? Especially when all different terms, brands, and extracts are being thrown around. I just would like to find out which one is reputable and known to work for others as opposed to just blindly going out and buying random versions of ashwagandha that don't work. Just a matter of narrowing it down..that is the point.

[Andrey_81]

Gongratulations Andrey. That is absolutely awesome and gives me hope for my case. Have you find any sleep issues with Rhodiola? I really like Rhodiola from what I have gathered but often it causes insomnia in prone people so I will avoid it for now.

No, never. But don't take 500 mg at once. Split the dose in 2-3 parts and take it like first thing in the morning. Sometimes I take 200 mg at 8:00 pm and never have any sleep issues. Everyday I take rhodiola in the morning, and half hour before gym (3-4 days a week). Even if I take it at 7:00 pm with a coffee (before gym) I will sleep like a baby. This is probably due to the daily intake of ashwagandha but I also take Schizandra before bed (everyday).

2 years ago, before I started with aswhagandha I couldn't sleep at all. My brain was mixing stupid thoughts like I'm all night on strong caffeine.

Edited by Andrey_81, 25 January 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[Healthyfreek]

I think the most unique thing about KSM-66 that I found was that it was a root extract and something called "full-spectrum". I guess full spectrum means that it resembles the raw root powder in composition but has the highest potency. You can also try swanson ashwagandha as that too carries KSM-66

I thought you said full-spectrum was good? But you agreed with jeoshua about the comment he made on sensoril and "full spectrum extracts" being a bad idea to take. Unless of course you were talking about LEAF full spectrum extract as opposed to the root full spectrum extracts?

@Brink: Oh yes, I was talking about Leaf Full spectrum extracts. However, I am also little confused about the full spectrum meaning. I read somewhere that water or alcohol extracts cannot give full spectrum extracts. Sensoril is a water-alcohol extract and it still claims to be full spectrum, which is contrary, because only water and alcohol soluble components would get captured in that extract and other important components gets flushed out. KSM-66 guys say that theirs is a full-spectrum since they use a unique proprietary and first of its type extraction process, but they do not give details about their process on their website. When I contacted the KSM-66 team through email and asked them about the process, they said that its a water-based process, but cannot reveal more information citing it as a trade-secret. :-)

I am basically very much against the usage of leaves. Neither the traditional practice advises it, nor does the pharmacopeias of the world (US, British, canada health pharmacopeia) They only document the root extract of ashwagandha. In fact, the name of ashwagandha means "the roots of this herb smell like that of a horse; thats a little funny though) :-) Hence, I prefer KSM6 over sensoril. And i experienced the dfference in effects as I had tried both the products.

[Healthyfreek]

C´mon, it isnt that hard. Full expectrum is a good thing, and KSM66 is a full spectrum extract. It´s all about the leafs and roots, thats the point. Full spectrum extracts aren´t that unique anyway. I have taken a couple of full blahblah herbal extracts that did nothing for me. Brand is what matters.

Either Savesta or Ayush Herbs should be good alternatives to KSM66 according to the root full spectrum 5% withanolides extract criteria for those using iherb. I will use Ayush Herbs once they respond to my email about the root extract.

I agree with you. Its all about the roots and leaves. I am sure savesta or ayush can be good alternatives, but I prefer KSM-66 over these products because it has got a lot of clinical studies done on the extract. In fact, from what i found out - there are only two ashwagandha brands in the market with clinical studies. One is KSM-66 and other is sensoril. But since sensoril is leaf and root extract, the only option left is KSM. I would be much more comfortable using KSM extract which has a lot of clinical studies to back up than other brands. I did a lot of research and did not find any other ashwgandha ingredient that is clinically proven.

Currently I'm living my best week in the last 15 years (regarding confidence, self-esteem, energy, speech skills). I just cannot believe this. My wife noticed that I speak clearly and more confident then ever.

Gongratulations Andrey. That is absolutely awesome and gives me hope for my case. Have you find any sleep issues with Rhodiola? I really like Rhodiola from what I have gathered but often it causes insomnia in prone people so I will avoid it for now.

Hmmm you guys are knowledgeable. That´s why I entered this forum. I might not get sensoril at the end, we´ll see. I cannot get the oh-so-good KSM-66 because of shipping though. I normally only buy at iherb to avoid trouble. Sucks.

What about SAVESTA brand? 5% withanolides, root extract. Looks pretty cool.

I think instead of savesta,you can also try himalaya. Atleast they are organic certified like KSM-66. I didnt find anything that might give it an edge. Bith himalaya and ksm had got clinical studies.

[brink]

Healthyfreek, although you do sound like a salesperson for KSM66, i'm going to act like you just did your own research haha!

So I am torn between Himalaya and KSM66. Looking at both brands...I see that Himalaya offers a higher mg dosage in each pill than nutrigold does. Although, the nutrigold has a higher mg dosage of withanolides. Nutrigold also has less than 0.1% withaferin a (which you guys are saying is toxic) but I am assuming that it's negligible? Could you explain what the dosages mean Healthyfreek?

Also, if I'm looking to just take it for daytime use and not for sleep, what is an optimal dose? I know it will vary from person to person, but I'm curious if there's a therapuetic dosage that is recommended.

I don't mean to sound like a broken record with all these questions, I'm just trying to make the right choice.

[HoldingTheFaith]

I know it's not that hard...but I don't see whats wrong with asking questions to obtain more knowledge? Especially when all different terms, brands, and extracts are being thrown around. I just would like to find out which one is reputable and known to work for others as opposed to just blindly going out and buying random versions of ashwagandha that don't work. Just a matter of narrowing it down..that is the point.

I know how you feel... exactly like me! Many supplements simply don´t work at all, so we need to be sure. Sorry if I was a bit stupid.

Brink, Himalaya has a tiny amount of withanolides, however the topic starter Andrey has had success with it for years, which brings the question if whitanolides are everything that improves our health from withania somnifera. Often scientists ignore certain actives in herbals. KSM66 on he other hand has many times as withanolides. Which leads us to the fact that both brands are effective, but I like numbers so I would go with the 5%. Or even, himalaya is super cheap, I would buy both to try. Not often you find that someone has find a supplement that keeps working for them after two years.

Edited by HoldingTheFaith, 25 January 2014 - 12:21 PM.

[brink]

@HoldingTheFaith - Thank you for the explanation! Ya I was thinking the same thing in terms of purchasing more than just one. I want to narrow it down to 2 if I can. I am already indecisive as it is with stuff like this so I like to get down to the nitty gritty haha! Any more information would be greatly appreciated.

[bzyb]

Yeah addictions come in a different shapes and forms and most people dont even recognize the real cause of the problems/anxieties they r having. I mean they take benzodiazepines to kill fear caused from constantly depleted dopamine reserves in their brains... that is being caused by releasing that dopamine during several orgasms per day for dozens of years... which meant to be healthy but isn't ;-)
[and the society keeps telling lies like 'if you are real man you need to have sex 25 times per week' lol well maybe u can, but without O. that's the thing and if u look deeper all ancient techniques like tantra or karezza actually promotes the sexual act itself but not orgasms as they are killing higher energy levels, especially in men] ok end of OT. :]

After reading what you said, and watching Don Jon I agree with what you said about long-term porn use having an effect on dopamine receptors. I do know that its not healthy to go completely monk, you know you gotta clean out the tubes every once in a while, but porn is affecting relationships and dopamine levels around the world! So I'm still learning about dopamine. Dopamine levels are only affected upon ejaculation but not before? What noots or other things besides abstainence of course would bring dopamine levels back to normal after years of bad habits? So far I think I've only heard about uridine potentially doing that.

I am a big fan of ashwagandha, but do know I need to cycle it. I also carry some sort of mix called a chill pill with me that has heavy doses of ashwagandha but don't try to take it on a daily basis. I read ScienceGuy's thread about gaba agonists, so I am also thinking about cycling and sporadically using.Taurine, Gaba, and Ashwagandha. So is it healthier to take all these noots for the long term or eventually want to cycle off all noots to nil? Great thread btw.

[jetmango]

Forget about GABA agonist, as they wont help you with dopamine issues. Stop drinking alcohol, caffeine, nicotine and doing drugs. That will help.

Regular excercise has been proved to boost dopamine levels. Also things like meditation, yoga, even cold showers.

You probably need 3-6 months at least to heal yourself. Don't count on drugs. They dont solve anything. It's just adding another numbers to the equation. Do it yoruself. You will feel better afterwards.
You will learn discipline. It's a very personal [development] journey also, and it should be.

Dopamine levels are affected not only by ejaculation/orgasm as such, but also 'edging' to pornography - so doing it for long time, spending time searching for your 'perfect porn moment' [to which you r gonna have orgasm] , or masturbating to the edge [hence the name] of the orgasm and then stopping it to calm down, and then doing it again ... and again etc. This cause dopamine rush to be flowing on a constantly high level. No way u will get it the same way during normal sex, so here you see how this can affect many issues at once.

But this topic is abou ashwagandha, so better move to the porn discussion, maybe.

[Babychris]

My first day on REAL Ashwagandha and to be honest it's the supplement that has had the most profound effect on my journey for a long time to say the least. It has a powerful anxyolitic effect and increase confidence and then motivation. I'm for the first time confident about a supplement. It mixes well with Sam-e, not at all with alcohol.
I'll update my feelings because I'm affraid to judge too hatively.

I'm waiting for my PRL8-53 coluracetam combination to push the anti-depressant and of course the cognitive effects.

Edited by Babychris, 26 January 2014 - 09:17 PM.