816 replies to this topic

[HoldingTheFaith]

Wtf Babychris? That could be allergy.

I got mine and I will start taking it this evening/night! I am wondering if it is best taken at night or else. My aims are sleep and confidence/anxiety. What do you guys have found it about it? What is the best time to take it? Andrey found out that at night eventually it caused worse sleep.

[Babychris]

Yeah I'm affraid of that .. That's so sad, for the first time I find something that work constantly well for me! You can take it with absolutely no problem tonight, if you are Lucky you should be beneath with some crazy dreams. It may affect the way you will Wake up tomorrow but the effect subside normally in terms of few days.. I'll stick with one dose at night in hope to prevent myself to an excessive allergic reaction and see..

[Andrey_81]

Today I received 'fresh' package of Himalaya ashwagandha (from India) and there is something different than before written under ingredients. It says other ingredient: Bronopol (?) Wtf is this??
On the used bottles I still have there was no sign of this. What the hell is this? Is it possible that allergic reactions that some people complain about could be due to this new shit called bronopol?

www.skinsafecosmetics.com/bronopol-allergy

Edited by Andrey_81, 24 February 2014 - 09:15 PM.

[Myke]

Bronopol raises a medium level of health concern and is of regulatory concern because:

- This ingredient is suspected of causing gastrointestinal or liver toxicity, immunotoxicity, suspected of causing skin or sense organ toxicity.
-Harmful in contact with skin and if swallowed
-Irritant
-Dangerous for the environment
-Very toxic to aquatic organisms;

-Is a preservative and antiseptic used in cosmetics and topical medications.
It is used as a preservative in paints, textiles, cooling towers, humidifiers, and hide processing.

-At low doses, one or more animal studies show brain and nervous system effects, gastrointestinal effects, and broad systemic effects. This ingredient is restricted for use in cosmetics in Canada and listed by the European Union as a toxin affecting wildlife and the environment.

Listed on labels as: BRONOPOL; BRONOPLOL


Doesent's sound like something that should be mixed with an amazing plant like Ashwagandha to me. You may want to think about switching to another brand Andrey.
The Himalaya one from iHerb does not containe Bronopol.

Edited by Myke, 24 February 2014 - 09:35 PM.

[jetmango]

Well, two days into this stack along with the Ash (KSM-66) by Nutrigold and I've had migraines both days! My guess is it's the Ash...

told ya

[brink]

mangoa!! you never answered about the complex stack thing?? you got holdingthefaith and myself waiting in anticipation!

[jetmango]

yeah I know been busy this week...

here it goes, probably you will be disappointed hehe - it has been recommended by my herbalist / acupuncture therapist in order to calm down hypersensitive nervous system.

spray in the eye: magnesium
hawthorn tea
omega 3 [with food]
evening primrose oil [good 'yin' tonic]

scullcap
milk thistle
hawthorn
liquorice
stachys betonica
leonuris cardiaca

now of course this mix is designed to help with my conditions, and this is in no way any kind of general stack that everyone can take and expect the same results as we are all but complex organisms and everyone is different.

Regarding my condition - [panic attacks, anxiety, nervous muscle cramps, social phobias, adrenaline bursts etc] which are already getting far better - not due to some huge stack of chemicals that is very often not causing any long term good [and sometimes deregulates the mody even more but is taken because for example it produces instant mild euphoria] - but due to hard changes implemented to my life like meditation, exercise, further changes in diet, abstaining from stimulants such as drugs/caffeine/nicotine or depressants like alcohol/prescribed drugs, abstaining from any dopamine releasing agents etc etc. Basically healthy and calm living. For real.

After 4 months of such living I have added acupuncture therapy in order to boost my re-balancing process.

Now I'm slowly coming to the peak of the process, the herb mixture will be a final touch.

Ah, also I have quit toxic stressful corporate job in order to save my health. No money is worth my health. Never.


I would add that no GP/ so called 'professional western therapist' has ever suggested me any of thing such as yoga, meditation, herb therapy not mentioning asking about stuff like how much I smoke or drink. They were just prescribing me antidepressants even though I've clearly stated that I do not have any depression. So, they started to prescribe stuff like Xanax, haha :D

Good that I know how it all works and I have never taken any of these mind-f* legal narcotics.

[HoldingTheFaith]

Hold on a second, eye-spray of magnesium? I never knew of that. I have tried oral and topical mag supplementation, with no effects except laxation.

[jetmango]

To be honest, me neither I will ask her about that tomorrow during the meeting.

[jetmango]

According to the traditional Chinese medicine liver is the centre of emotions and problems with eliminating toxins from the body can cause stuff like anxiety or anger - hence the milk thistle in the list.

I know that herbs ARE very potent/powerful and hard to patent that's why 'big pharma' does not like them at all. But surely they work.



But wait a minute, liquorice raises cortisol levels and blood pressure, how this can help calm down the body?

Well, it's a common mistake for a non herbalists to make, you need to know that it will be circa ~5 ml in a total of 300 ml tincture and it is a supreme harmoniser and adrenal tonic, it also serves to make bitter herbs palatable so you won't have stomach spasms.

It will absolutely not affect blood pressure of cortisol.

Remember the counterbalance too of all the other quite relaxant sedating herbs. This is a mix, and is synergistic so it's a whole other way of dealing with herbs than a non practitioner would be used to.

Both Ayurveda and T.C.M. agrees that 5-6 herbs mixed can work differently than when each of these herbs taken by itself.

Edited by mangoa, 26 February 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[HoldingTheFaith]

I would change Licorice for any other adrenal tonic, like Rehmania. I don´t fancy licorice because it is estrogenic, although it is also a powerful antinflammatory too so surely it is a fine herb.

[jetmango]

yeah u see with me the problem is I have too much 'yang' / male / active energy. So that's probably why she added that.

[HoldingTheFaith]

I see. I am definetely a more yin person.

[machete234]

From what I've learned so far, ash is a vasodilator. In many people this is no big deal, perhaps even beneficial in increasing blood flow and lowering blood pressure. In those who are experiencing vasoconstrictive headaches, ash could help prevent or abort them. But in people who already have lower than average blood pressure and are vulnerable to vasodiltory headaches, ash can give them headaches, varying with dose and co-administration of other vasodilators, or vasoconstrictors.

Strange I have elevated blood pressure and when I take too much I get headaches too.
It should lower my blood pressure to a more normal level and not give me headaches then?

[jetmango]

you just take too much of this substance. your body reacts this way because it does not want it in such amounts. lower the dose.

when I had headaches from ashwagandha, it did not felt like headache from high blood pressure to me.

some ayurvedic practicioner told me that it is normal when your nervous system is strongly out of balance. but I believe this is bollocks - and I still can get headache when I simply overdose on ashwagandha. even though my body is in far better shape than 1 year ago.

[besides I dont take it anymore lol]

Edited by mangoa, 26 February 2014 - 10:20 PM.

[EGG84]

Hey there Andrey_81,

I am exactly experiencing the problem you experiences since more or less 10 years and trying to find right stack since more or less 2 years. Thanks for the topic I will your stack in a while and hopefully I will feel OK *)

[HoldingTheFaith]

I am around one week on 1000 mgs of Ayush Herbs Ashwagandha which is 5% withanolides. The effects that are subtle and might not be there at all are better response to stressors, less social anxiety and better sexual response. Note that all of these can be improved by "mindwork", lifestyle modification etc which I am doing, plus I am taking other supplements. The only obvious effect that cannot be denied is increased sperm output (not as dramatic as with Maca) which is thicker and much more white.

All in all pretty dissapointing! I will try other brand next time.

[RicardoW]

the term adaptogen is used far to often a fair definition would be a substance that is non toxic and produce no negative effects even in large doses.and is safe to use every day.

there are few such herbs an even tough ginseng as well as ashawagda are in a different class than most other herb they don't belong in that category but are in Chinese and Indian medicine respectively used to strengthen the body. during a limited period of time and are not considered suitable for persistent use

ginseng can case a sort of mild sort of addiction (there are a lot of empirical evidence for this) ashawaganda in very large doses can case down regulation in dopamine receptors in your brain. this is usually an adaptation to high dopamine levels (but not in this case).

It not that bad and cannot be compared to drug use or even the potential harm of some prescription drugs. but it reasonable to take in consideration. I would definitely take 2-3 days of every week it's an absolute necessary to do so. besides it loses its effect if used persistently. so its just plain stupid to not do so.

[brink]

so what herbs do belong in the "adaptogen" category ricardo?

[username]

the term adaptogen is used far to often a fair definition would be a substance that is non toxic and produce no negative effects even in large doses.and is safe to use every day.

there are few such herbs an even tough ginseng as well as ashawagda are in a different class than most other herb they don't belong in that category but are in Chinese and Indian medicine respectively used to strengthen the body. during a limited period of time and are not considered suitable for persistent use

ginseng can case a sort of mild sort of addiction (there are a lot of empirical evidence for this) ashawaganda in very large doses can case down regulation in dopamine receptors in your brain. this is usually an adaptation to high dopamine levels (but not in this case).

It not that bad and cannot be compared to drug use or even the potential harm of some prescription drugs. but it reasonable to take in consideration. I would definitely take 2-3 days of every week it's an absolute necessary to do so. besides it loses its effect if used persistently. so its just plain stupid to not do so.

Is there any evidence to back this up?

[RicardoW]

there are evidence (in vitro) that some of the stuff in it will decrease the density of dopamine receptors in brain tissue. it can also raise proloctin levels in rat.

cycle it and you be just fine and you probably will be fine even if you dissed to take it persistently. what matter is that it will work better if its cycled.

the herbs I mention are potent herbs with a strong impact on the human body (ashawaganda even contains alkaloides). but often I get the impression that they (or to be correct some of there components) are promoted as other supplements (because they can protect brain cell from glutamate etc.). but they are not and should probably not be used like that.

its nothing like eating goji berries or turmeric extract on a daily basis. goji berries inhibits the brake down of dopamine and raise testosterone slightly. tumeric extract protects the liver. there are other interesting plants as well.

the truth is that just about any non toxic plant contains stuff that enables you're body to "adapt" (that's why I don't like the term). what matter when considering advantage and disadvantage is by what mechanism this happens.

whats I find interesting is the fact that most plants are toxic to human beings some on the other hand has bin sorted out and consider suitable as crops. lately empirical studies as well as in vitro research has shown that some food/herbs (due to to there active components) seams to provide health benefits to the person eating them other than essential nutrients and calories.

some foods stands out and borderlines herbs and fits my definition of an "adaptogen".

Edited by RicardoW, 07 March 2014 - 07:59 PM.

[jetmango]

so if one will eat goji it will cause more dopamine in the brain?

can you provide any source for this?

...we all love dopamine, aren't we? ;D

Edited by mangoa, 07 March 2014 - 08:06 PM.

[brink]

Can you provide names for these other "herbs" you speak of. You kind of just keep generalizing by saying foods/herbs without any names

[HoldingTheFaith]

Goji berries are healthy and taste good. They are terribly expensive though. When I start earning a salary most of it will go to my diet and supplements it seems lol

This is how it is: food > supplements. Whole food supplements are the best for this reason. Let food be your medicine, but be prepared to pay!!

My experience with herbs has been mixed. It seems only aphrodisiacs do anything for me. So I favour nutritional supplements and foods over herbs for sure.

Edited by HoldingTheFaith, 08 March 2014 - 12:12 AM.

[jetmango]

U know.. these herbs...

[adamh]

I just started taking ashwagandha. Took it last night and the night before, 2 caps of concentrate 450 mg each, each night. I got a little sleepy but did not get to sleep, I have refractory insomnia but it did seem to help sleep onset somewhat and did improve the quality of the sleep I got. I noticed both times the next morning I felt great. It was a good feeling that lasted into the day. I will keep taking this stuff for sure.

I took 2 caps of tulsi or holy basil along with the ashwagandha dose so I'm not sure which did what but I will keep taking them. I feel great today, its a mood enhancer for sure unless it was something else which I can't think of but I'm not using anything else that is new.

[gearzo]

Can you provide names for these other "herbs" you speak of. You kind of just keep generalizing by saying foods/herbs without any names

I'd like to know also

[RicardoW]

so what herbs do belong in the "adaptogen" category ricardo?

Can you provide names for these other "herbs" you speak of. You kind of just keep generalizing by saying foods/herbs without any names

Can you provide names for these other "herbs" you speak of. You kind of just keep generalizing by saying foods/herbs without any names

I'd like to know also

hey every one, sure thing! as I mentioned the important thing is how it work. I don't like when people trough all sorts of stuff in to there system often herbs (for whatever reason) with potent effects an potential interaction however some are worth mentioning.

to start with I like to bring up paffia a way underrated herb. its of exceptional value and it do fits the definition of "adaptogen" I brought up earlier" this stuff is nontoxic and you can't take to much of (it might case nausea. and you might trough up if you where to take massive doses because among other thing it stimulates the gallbladder (but that kind of doses is way out of the therapeutic range the point is that it won't do any harm).

paffia has its origin in the Brazilian rainforest where its name means "for all things" and that pretty much how they use it even children can take it

paffia enables body to get the support it needs to recover from stress. it will also strengthen the overall constitution it will improve hair quality, improve muscle, growth stimulate sex drive, raise testosterone, improve sleep,. improve sperm mobility. And is very good for the liver find out for you're self!

some of its benefits I also due to the fact that it has an incredible nutritional profile

next is astragalus also an underrated an luckily an inexpensive herb its slightly stimulating nontoxic even in huge doses. interesting effects on the immune system as well (but not conclusive jet). also it influence sperm mobility.

then there is reshi. luck at some of its effects on neurogenesis nerve growth factors and hence its effect on the brains placidity (its plenty of stuff on our grate forum abbot this luck in to it!).

next is cordyseps in china its used extensively by a growing middleclass. lots of research on this herb (also its one of the few herbs accepted for long term use in the chine's tradition and they did figure out a few thing back then also).in vitro studies shows that it inhibit the brake down of dopamine (or to be correct it brakes down the enzym that naturally brake downs dopamine in to its metabolites). as you know from this form a lot of drugs etc that has this effect is supposed to effect aging in a positive way because slows down neurodegeneration. dopamine levels decrees due this natural process in some it's a fast process in others its slow. (some lives to a high age and maintain dopamin levels). any way it's in every ones interest to low this process down. and here is a seemingly safe herb that has this effect. not to say its better than deprenyl if any one is in to that.

one more thing can bementiond about it: it seems to help people with kidney disorders (and few things do).
and finally most are not produced correctly and because the plant make the substances we want as a response to the environment it won't contain them un less they are exposed to their natural environment (this is a well know fact).
the result of this fact is that people selling it by high quantities of low quality herbs to low price and then get the must out of it by extraction that why most herbs are standardized .

there are some other herbs but not many that are good I might add some more stuff (when I have time).

Edited by RicardoW, 09 March 2014 - 11:01 PM.

[brendan1]

is 'Paffia' known by another name?... cant find anything about it..

[EGG84]

so what herbs do belong in the "adaptogen" category ricardo?

Can you provide names for these other "herbs" you speak of. You kind of just keep generalizing by saying foods/herbs without any names

Can you provide names for these other "herbs" you speak of. You kind of just keep generalizing by saying foods/herbs without any names

I'd like to know also

hey every one, sure thing! as I mentioned the important thing is how it work. I don't like when people trough all sorts of stuff in to there system often herbs (for whatever reason) with potent effects an potential interaction however some are worth mentioning.

to start with I like to bring up paffia a way underrated herb. its of exceptional value and it do fits the definition of "adaptogen" I brought up earlier" this stuff is nontoxic and you can't take to much of (it might case nausea. and you might trough up if you where to take massive doses because among other thing it stimulates the gallbladder (but that kind of doses is way out of the therapeutic range the point is that it won't do any harm).

paffia has its origin in the Brazilian rainforest where its name means "for all things" and that pretty much how they use it even children can take it

paffia enables body to get the support it needs to recover from stress. it will also strengthen the overall constitution it will improve hair quality, improve muscle, growth stimulate sex drive, raise testosterone, improve sleep,. improve sperm mobility. And is very good for the liver find out for you're self!

some of its benefits I also due to the fact that it has an incredible nutritional profile

next is astragalus also an underrated an luckily an inexpensive herb its slightly stimulating nontoxic even in huge doses. interesting effects on the immune system as well (but not conclusive jet). also it influence sperm mobility.

then there is reshi. luck at some of its effects on neurogenesis nerve growth factors and hence its effect on the brains placidity (its plenty of stuff on our grate forum abbot this luck in to it!).

next is cordyseps in china its used extensively by a growing middleclass. lots of research on this herb (also its one of the few herbs accepted for long term use in the chine's tradition and they did figure out a few thing back then also).in vitro studies shows that it inhibit the brake down of dopamine (or to be correct it brakes down the enzym that naturally brake downs dopamine in to its metabolites). as you know from this form a lot of drugs etc that has this effect is supposed to effect aging in a positive way because slows down neurodegeneration. dopamine levels decrees due this natural process in some it's a fast process in others its slow. (some lives to a high age and maintain dopamin levels). any way it's in every ones interest to low this process down. and here is a seemingly safe herb that has this effect. not to say its better than deprenyl if any one is in to that.

one more thing can bementiond about it: it seems to help people with kidney disorders (and few things do).
and finally most are not produced correctly and because the plant make the substances we want as a response to the environment it won't contain them un less they are exposed to their natural environment (this is a well know fact).
the result of this fact is that people selling it by high quantities of low quality herbs to low price and then get the must out of it by extraction that why most herbs are standardized .

there are some other herbs but not many that are good I might add some more stuff (when I have time).

Hey there RicardoW isnt it better to talk about alll the adaptogens under a title of adaptogens???? You are writing these under Ashwagandha - a miracle herb tittle so its not fitting here. Just think about the others who are searching for helpful info about adaptogens with google search. So title matters *)