526 replies to this topic

[AgeVivo]

5th feed done this morning. Mice doing well.

[AgeVivo]

6th this morning

[AgeVivo]

7th

[AgeVivo]

Some small pictures for fun:

I use the small green balls to transport mice to/from the cage and the big ball to have them eat normal food:
 balls-to-eat.png   278.53KB   17 downloads

The least I can say is that the treatment (including IF= 2 ad libitum meals per day) did not do harm to them. They are very curious, play with each other and climb everywhere:
 mice-cage-play.png   418.81KB   20 downloads

[Raphy]

Fun :D

Thanks for your work AgeVivo. There's so cute

[AgeVivo]

8th feed today. I have then changed the cage and added food in the cage.

Like in the paper, they will now be treated with C60oo only once a week. So the intermittent fasting has last only one week, and it will now be done only once a week for a few weeks, then once every other week for a few months: very little intermittent fasting overall.

[Mind]

What about testing some aging bio-markers in these cute critters. Perhaps you could apply for one of the small grants available from Longecity and do some testing of their blood or tissue.

[AgeVivo]

Yes I guess I could have applied for such a grant to.do the experiment. It would be nice if other LongeCity members join the group of pet owners doing lifespan tests with inoffensive things (through a grant or not)

Concerning testings, indeed I think that with a small grant I could test the content of what I am giving to the mice (do we detect C60 particles?) and could then also measure it in the pee of the mice. I am just not sure where to have c60 content tested inexchange of money (paid by longecity): anyone to investigate this, in a collaborative effort?

It could allow to choose to do smthg else than in the c60 paper: if with time c60 in pee becomes undetected and the animals appear to be long luved but start to obviously age (many many "if") then having the knowledge of such past c60 measures we might want to change the paper protocol and do another series of c60 treatments.

We could even have a rat owner do a similar test and one of those who tested c60 on themselves (...) do the pee test.

Just an idea, without having thought much about it.

Edited by AgeVivo, 10 June 2012 - 07:01 AM.

[AgeVivo]

Zorba: " I have a question.  Do the mice in these studies ever procreate?  Just curious about testing C60 with respect to that -- something that might be important to humans considering taking it."

Here's a relevant study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20063269

They used radioactively tagged C60 and found that C60 does cross the placenta and does show up in milk, but they didn't mention any abnormalities as a result--at least not in the abstract.

Sumner SC et al. Distribution of carbon-14 labeled C60 ([14C]C60) in the
pregnant and in the lactating dam and the effect of C60 exposure on the
biochemical profile of urine. J Appl Toxicol. 2010 May;30(4):354-60.

The c60-rat-life-extension corresponding author has read this thread and emailed me this: he reacted on this article that does not cite him, although his lab is actually pionnieer on the toxicity studies of c60 itself; he was the one to demonstrate in the early 90s that c60 could be dissolved in water and that it was possible to study its toxicity in a biological media, contrary to what others believed at that time; that massive doses (5g/kg) could be injected without any sign of toxicity (1996 paper, in vivo toxicology). And that it is only 10 years later that they started using aquous c60 solutions, without mentioning his work. That the ones who discoveted fulletenes received the Nobel prize for that in 1996 but that in the toxicology field in has been not so grateful to work on c60. This being said, here are in a following post some papers on c60 for those who want to study them carefully; the first 2 ones deal with the same topic as the 2010 paper mentionned here above.

Edited by AgeVivo, 12 June 2012 - 07:12 AM.

[Rob Wegner]

I enjoy reading this. Way to go AgeVivo!

[zorba990]

...
he was the one to demonstrate in the early 90s that c60 could be dissolved in water and that it was possible to study its toxicity in a biological media, contrary to what others believed at that time; that massive doses (5g/kg) could be injected without any sign of toxicity (1996 paper, in vivo toxicology).
...

Can you give a more complete ref for the 1996 paper, I would like to pull it.

thanks!

[AgeVivo]

the first 2 ones deal with the same topic as the 2010 paper mentionned here above.

Early effects of C60 administration in Swiss mice: a preliminary account for in vivo C60 toxicity (1996)
http://agevivo.com/l...bution-1996.pdf

C60 fullerene toxicity: preliminary account of an in vivo study
http://agevivo.com/l...-tox-of-C60.pdf

[AgeVivo]

papers put online, in accordance with the author: http://agevivo.com/litterature/C60/

[revenant]

I think those may be some lucky mice. AgeVivo, are you not considering using a more protracted dosing period for one of your mice?

In case you were wanting to test on worms... http://www.wormbook....inmaintain.html

[Rob Wegner]

There are so many issues about this, such as:

What if you combine this treatment with other treatments shown to extend rodent life (such as Gene therapy extends mouse lifespan by 24 pc)?
‎What will be the telomerase length of the treated rodents compared to the control?
What if you gave the animals higher amounts of C60-Olive Oil and/or more frequent feedings?
What eventually kills the treated rodents, Amyloidosis?
In light of recent findings about the C1q protein (see: Secret of ageing found), how do the immune systems of the treated animals compare to control animals?
How do you recruit human volunteers and what is the benchmark for success in a human trial?

Nevertheless, this is exciting research!

[malbecman]

Thanks for posting and doing this expt!

[AgeVivo]

As planned, yesterday evening I changed the cage and put no food in the cage, so that the 3 mice fasted overnight, and this morning I gave them C60oo and then put food in the cage for the week.

I took some pictures this morning:

- some pictures taken before giving them C60oo, where each of them wants to be the one to go on the top of a ball and show that it can stand up on it
who will climb on?
both, but the white one pushed it away and stood up: bravo
 souris-qui-dessus2.jpg   70.02KB   18 downloads  souris-blanche-dessus2.jpg   47.94KB   20 downloads  souris-blanche-debout2.jpg   68.19KB   19 downloads
then the black one climbs on and stands up: bravo too
 souris-noire-dessus2.jpg   70.99KB   25 downloads  souris-noire-debout2.jpg   49.81KB   19 downloads

- pictures of each mouse taking its piece of bread with C60oo (as always I rotated the mice so that there is one mouse at a time in the cage, taking C60oo)
 c60oo1.jpg   55.5KB   16 downloads  c60oo2.jpg   79.09KB   14 downloads  c60oo3.jpg   48.56KB   19 downloads

- ok back to normal: food for all in the cage. the mice are now focusing on it
 food4all.jpg   97.53KB   18 downloads

Edited by AgeVivo, 17 June 2012 - 08:18 AM.

[AgeVivo]

I have pictures from when I bought the mice: january 28th 2011. They were probably 3-4 week old so the experiment started at age 18th month, with a precision of about one week

[tweedlover]

Hi AgeVivo - it is great you are doing this study - fascinating to see if you can replicate their results.

Do you know the average lifespan of the type of mice you are using?

Also, I'm sure you don't need any more encouragement than the possibility of extending life but, have you considered entering the M-prize if you do succeed?

http://www.mprize.or...j_mprize_record

The longevity prize deals with single mice and the record is just under 5 years - (10% less than the 66 months of the rats in the study) Winning the M-prize could help fund a lot of further research - likely about $400k! There is also a category just for published research that Faathi et al should probably shoot for given the record is under 4 years in this category!

http://www.mprize.or...n=mj_mprize_how

http://en.wikipedia....tion#The_Mprize

[Rob Wegner]

Those might be the luckiest mice in the world.

[AgeVivo]

As planned and like in previous week-ends, yesterday evening I changed the content of the cage, the mice fasted overnight, and I fed them C60oo on bread this morning. I then put them all in the cage with food.

The mice are doing well, they play with each other, sometimes walk upside down hung on the top of the cage: they do well. They took C60oo+bread without any hesitation: all is doing well, nothing special to report.

[AgeVivo]

Like previous week-ends, the mice fasted overnight and I gave them C60oo this morning.
Here are images of them taking the treatment:
 BB-C60oo.JPG   25.1KB   15 downloads  BW-C60oo.JPG   22.98KB   16 downloads  W-C60oo.JPG   34.12KB   20 downloads

This week I have found the mice in even better shape than previous weeks, often playing together and hanging on the top of the cage. This morning, this was particularly explicit: sometimes the 3 of them were hanging and walking upside down during up to one minute; even when they were young adults I had not seen such long upside down walkings. This could be C60oo, it could be the week-end fasting, it could be the combination. Here are 2 pictures and a video of their upside down walkings:
 3miceBWtop.JPG   39.74KB   20 downloads  3miceWtop.JPG   107.74KB   18 downloads (not able to upload video)

Edited by AgeVivo, 01 July 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[Mind]

Great job AgeVivo. Thanks for sharing the pictures.

[Danail Bulgaria]

AgeVivo,
it is very nice, that You have decided to take really some action and to do something yourself for
defeating the aging.

Sorry for the stupid question, but what exactly is C60oo ?

I googled for some hours, and I reached several substances, that are abriviatured as C60
including cobalt 60

Do You mean the C60 Fullerene molecule?

And what the to "oo" mean after the C60? Is "C60oo" equal to "C60"?

[Logic]

AgeVivo,
it is very nice, that You have decided to take really some action and to do something yourself for
defeating the aging.

Sorry for the stupid question, but what exactly is C60oo ?

I googled for some hours, and I reached several substances, that are abriviatured as C60
including cobalt 60

Do You mean the C60 Fullerene molecule?

And what the to "oo" mean after the C60? Is "C60oo" equal to "C60"?

Read all about it here:

http://www.longecity...of-wistar-rats/

[Danail Bulgaria]

OK. Thank You !

So somebody else asks the same question like me - C60 is C60 Fullerene molecule and oo is olive oil

[AgeVivo]

The mice are doing well, playing together and with the balls, and frequently walking upside down (slightly less than previous week it seems, but perhaps it is the lessons of falls, some of which I have seen); currently they play at moving the balls by climbing on them and trying to climb on the balls from difficult sides: they are doing well

Like in previous week-ends, the mice fasted overnight and took C60oo-on-bread this morning.
Here are images of them taking the treatment:
 b1-080712.JPG   39.34KB   10 downloads  b2-080712.JPG   48.36KB   12 downloads  w-080712.JPG   36.12KB   8 downloads

I get the progressive impression that the mice are eating more than they used to. I have never been used to measure how much they eat (at home) so I am not sure; I am mentioning it in case someone could test in a lab. They do not look larger than before (*) so if they really eat more than normal (to be checked by someone?) it could be for example that C60oo reduces nutriment absorption : it could be some cryptoCR.
(*) contrary to humans in general mice naturally do not eat too much when fed ad libitum. In C60oo disturbs feeding behavior there is a risk in humans to become overweight for exemple. This is far extrapolation based on a tenuous impression, but I prefer to mention it, in case.

Edited by AgeVivo, 08 July 2012 - 06:56 PM.

[AgeVivo]

Here is the video I had tried to upload last week (July 1st) of the mice walking upside down
http://agevivo.com/l...-very-small.mp4
(at the very end of the video the third mouse also climbed upside down but I've stopped the video with my camera)

[AgeVivo]

The mice are doing well, looking very good. Like in previous week-ends, the mice fasted overnight and took C60oo-on-bread this morning.
Here are images of them taking the treatment:
 b150712.JPG   29.63KB   10 downloads  bw150712.JPG   35.93KB   13 downloads  w150712.JPG   44.51KB   13 downloads

[Junk Master]

Keep the updates coming. Great work. Thanks.