526 replies to this topic

[YOLF]

I guess it'll depend on whether they continue to improve. Did anyone else clean the cage while you were away? Was someone else feeding them? Was there food in their bowl when you got home?

[AgeVivo]

no one came while I was away, I had given them a lot of food when I left, at different places, and when I came there was a lot left, as expected

[AgeVivo]

as usual, after one night without food I treated my mice this morning. They are doing well as usual and are curious and quite active. Scratching themselves from time to time but not much.
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[YOLF]

Thanks for the update AV!

[AgeVivo]

as usual, changed the cage yesterday and treated them this morning. They are doing well, it happens they don't scratch themselves anymore. They are 30 month old in one week, and looking good.
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[YOLF]

Is this rat scratch thing usually intermittant or is this something new we're looking at?

[Kevnzworld]

Looking good for their age. 900 days old, is a milestone.

[yuriythebest]

Usually a mouse lives to be approximately one and a half years, sometimes even three. As a rough guide, between one and a half and two years is a typical lifespan, although by giving your mice a good diet and lifestyle you may be able to give them some extra time. Occasionally mice live to three or more; the world record holder lived to seven according to one source!

so 900 days is now in the upper/above average - so looking good!

[Kevnzworld]

Usually a mouse lives to be approximately one and a half years, sometimes even three. As a rough guide, between one and a half and two years is a typical lifespan, although by giving your mice a good diet and lifestyle you may be able to give them some extra time. Occasionally mice live to three or more; the world record holder lived to seven according to one source!

so 900 days is now in the upper/above average - so looking good!

I used a supplement trial by Spindler as a comparison. He used hundreds of standard heterogeneous mice as controls. The amount of mice used gives some good comparative data. The females generally out lived the males, but few lived much more than 900 days.

[Andey]

I wrote before about large drugs screening trial on mice that was happen in Russia
Last mouse in control group died recently about 1200 days old
example of one of their graphs


Rest of CR and some drugs/supplement groups are still ongoing.

Edited by Andey, 29 May 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

Below are the mean and maximum lifespans of various laboratory mouse strains. The results so far of 2 out of 3 mice living to 900 days would put them with the longest lived strains.

http://research.jax....LifeStudy2.html

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[Kevnzworld]

It's hard to know which strain of laboratory mice are most similar to Age Vivo's wild type domestic pet store mice. JAX mice are generally bred to have a specific genetic characteristic. That's why the lifespan results are so varied. The reason I chose Spindlers mice, was that he needed a standard domestic mouse strain that had no particular genetic makeup that would skew the results of his study. He also need a large quantity of mice to be used at many lab locations. This helps eliminate care at any particular lab to effect the lifespan results overall.
Here are the stats. : The control mice in Spindlers NIA ITP study lived an average of
786 days for males, and 866 for females. The reference lifespan for these mice are 831 and 836 days. No control mouse lived past day 891. Some supplemented mice, GTE, resveratrol etc lived to 920 Days. AgeVivo's two mice are now over 900 days old.
Spindlers were University of Michigan heterogeneous mice. I would think the expected lifespans would be similar.

Edited by Kevnzworld, 29 May 2013 - 02:31 PM.

[dz93]

If I were to start my own life extension study with rats what do I need to consider before hand and what variables need to be kept in check. What would I need to do to ensure the most accurate results with what little I have to work with?

[niner]

The control mice in Spindlers NIA ITP study lived an average of 786 days for males, and 866 for females. The reference lifespan for these mice are 831 and 836 days. No control mouse lived past day 891.

This seems odd. If the females lived 866 on average, but none made it past 891, the mortality curve would have had to have been very square. Are all those numbers right?

[Logic]

If I were to start my own life extension study with rats what do I need to consider before hand and what variables need to be kept in check. What would I need to do to ensure the most accurate results with what little I have to work with?

I am sure AgeVivo and Mind will welcome your wanting to do a rat experiment and will reply to you as soon as they see this post, but are both very busy.
They will discus what is involved and send you free C60oo to feed your rats.
All you need is a cage or 2 with preferably an exercise wheel, perhaps some toys and somewhere for the rats to hide/rest.

The more rats you have the better and mixing sexes is not recommended unless you want to end up with lots of rats and some aggressive behaviour.

[Kevnzworld]

The control mice in Spindlers NIA ITP study lived an average of 786 days for males, and 866 for females. The reference lifespan for these mice are 831 and 836 days. No control mouse lived past day 891.

This seems odd. If the females lived 866 on average, but none made it past 891, the mortality curve would have had to have been very square. Are all those numbers right?

The reference range is what the university listed for the mice breed on their website. The lifespans I listed were from Spindlers actual data.

[yuriythebest]

so it seems, that 900-1200 is impressive but "not out of the ordinary" - now if this stuff does work it has to be like 1600-2100 days - now that will be an actual confirmation of this drug working

[Andey]

so it seems, that 900-1200 is impressive but "not out of the ordinary" - now if this stuff does work it has to be like 1600-2100 days - now that will be an actual confirmation of this drug working

Dont forget that AgeVivo mice was already old when he started the experiment. I dont think that we could expect such longevity increase in this case.

[niner]

so it seems, that 900-1200 is impressive but "not out of the ordinary" - now if this stuff does work it has to be like 1600-2100 days - now that will be an actual confirmation of this drug working

"Not out of the ordinary" for selected genetically identical hybrids or perhaps animals living in pathogen-free conditions, but these are wild type mice in a normal environment. The best comparison group is from the large, professionally-tended colony used in the NIA/ITP experiments. AgeVivo's mice have now outlived all of the controls from that large group, and are in good health. This is starting to suggest that the drug has an influence on rodent lifespan, and the fact that the mice were old when the experiment started, as Andey mentioned, is quite interesting. 1600-2100 days would be a confirmation and then some. I don't think we'll need to go quite that long to say that it "works". The only question is "how well".

[zorba990]

so it seems, that 900-1200 is impressive but "not out of the ordinary" - now if this stuff does work it has to be like 1600-2100 days - now that will be an actual confirmation of this drug working

"Not out of the ordinary" for selected genetically identical hybrids or perhaps animals living in pathogen-free conditions, but these are wild type mice in a normal environment. The best comparison group is from the large, professionally-tended colony used in the NIA/ITP experiments. AgeVivo's mice have now outlived all of the controls from that large group, and are in good health. This is starting to suggest that the drug has an influence on rodent lifespan, and the fact that the mice were old when the experiment started, as Andey mentioned, is quite interesting. 1600-2100 days would be a confirmation and then some. I don't think we'll need to go quite that long to say that it "works". The only question is "how well".

Personally looking for infinity days... =:-)

[dz93]

I wasn't planning on using c60. I wanna test a different life extension supplement. I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right during the experiment so I can provide the most accurate results possible for a small home set up. I'd be willing to use up to 10 mice for this expereriment.

[BobSeitz]

Today marks the 920th day (give or take a few days uncertainty) in the lives of AgeVivo's two surviving mice. To my way of thinking, what's important about this event is the fact that AgeVivo's mice haven't been harmed by the continuing administration of C60in olive oil for 40% of their lives. Of course, to make this investment worth its cost, they'll have to live longer with C60oo than they would without it, but I interpret this 920-day birthday to be at least a modest safety endorsement for C60oo.

[AgeVivo]

Hello, I have been very busy these last days and discover that there are many posts to read hereabove as soon as I have time

So, tadaa! My mice are 30 month old, and doing like a charm. The one that was scratching isn't anymore and is doing very well, better in the last week than it was in the last 2 months (does the c60 improve health when mild issues happen? I am wondering as it is not the first time that the mice recover well) and the other one (big with white belly) is not scratching a little (we'll see if it evolves like the first-scratching one). Globally they have good hair, good 'mood' and good activity. They certainly do not look like the oldest mice I've had (that did not live quite as long). My belief is that Baati et al's results are being transposed to my experiment.

What we would need is people who have control and experimental mice, with the double-blind-like approach that we have defined. Also, seeing that many people want to dose their cats or dogs I think that we should extend the c60-pet-trial to cats and dogs (of course without insisting to get people as cats and dogs are sensitive) -- the wonder-drug we are looking for could well be c60 -- I think we need to test it to such levels now.

As promised, I took videos.
- Here is a video of their normal activity when I approach them:
- Here is a video of their activity when I put a piece of chocolate on the top of the cage and make it difficult for them to reach it (During the video that I took they did not find how to reach it but a few minutes later they found; happy birthday!) :

Edited by AgeVivo, 02 June 2013 - 12:54 AM.

[YOLF]

Great work AV! Congratulations!

[motorcitykid]

Fantastic!

[AgeVivo]

on Sunday morning, as usual I have given them the treatment
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[YOLF]

Is the one on the left losing fur or is that the scratch coming back/healing?

[AgeVivo]

the scratch is coming back in both of them, intermittently
as usual I have changed the cage yesterday evening and treated them this morning

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[AgeVivo]

same state
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[YOLF]

Still looking very healthy!