526 replies to this topic

[AgeVivo]

As always I changed the cage during the week-end and after a night fed the mice with 4 drops of c60oo on bread

The mice are still in a good shape, though they start being less at ease with climbing:
-- here is a video of a fall(well, this might be a coincidence rather than a trouble with climbing: if you analyse the video, the tail shifted to an empty space; the mouse uses it to feel the floor, suddenly it was desiquilibrated by not feeling the floor and fell; but within the fall was able to turn around and land on the feet: still very active!)
-- here is a video of a difficult de-climbing (well it has been some time that the mouse with the white belly has been more at ease than the mouse with the black belly)

And here are pictures of the mice before and during feeding:
 2mice_151212.JPG   113.54KB   18 downloads  bb_151212.JPG   34.94KB   23 downloads  bw_151212.JPG   79.58KB   24 downloads

Edited by AgeVivo, 17 December 2012 - 10:12 PM.

[xEva]

yours are cuiteski little miceski my catski would not mind playing with them

[kenorb]

As always I changed the cage during the week-end and after a night fed the mice with 4 drops of c60oo on bread

Could you keep updating with some statistics or just summarise. Basically how old they were when you started fed them with C60, how old they are now (and what does it mean) and when they suppose to die (avg lifespan)? Are you feeding all of them, or there is any test group?
Thanks.

[AgeVivo]

@xEva: yes cute grandmas ;-)
@kenorb: started to feed fullerenes (c60) in olive oil on bread weekly (with minor variations) on 3 mice at age 18 month and without control (I only had 3 mice). One died, probably from a tumor (probably prexisting but no proof) and 2 are now 24.5 month old and in rather good shape. According to others persons at the petshop the mice live a little less than 2 years; but it is not a predefined strain and some strains live longer so it will become meaningful if they live much longer. As you can see all this is very anecdotical so far => we are starting a collective distributed lifespan test with controls.

[AgeVivo]

Last Saturday/Sunday: treated as usual. Mice doing well
 2mice_231212.JPG   64.87KB   11 downloads  b_231212.JPG   29.6KB   10 downloads  bw_231212.JPG   33.64KB   9 downloads
video: http://agevivo.com/litterature/C60/2mice_231212.avi

[clairvoyant]

Agevivo, could you please, provide some photographs of old mice at different age so that we can see what old mice are suppose to look like. It would be good to be black and of the same strain as yours.

[Andey]

Agevivo, could you please, provide some photographs of old mice at different age so that we can see what old mice are suppose to look like. It would be good to be black and of the same strain as yours.

Dont ask to waste others time. AgeVivo already spend a lot of time on this experiment.

If you read thread than you should know that strain in unknown, photos of different mice you can find by Google.

Edited by Andey, 25 December 2012 - 08:52 AM.

[Adaptogen]

Agevivo, could you please, provide some photographs of old mice at different age so that we can see what old mice are suppose to look like. It would be good to be black and of the same strain as yours.

http://www.longecity...180#entry547737

[AgeVivo]

2 very different looking mice of the same generation, aged 29 month, in a very good lab environnment:

The mouse in the upper panel (A) has a more advanced kyphosis, poorer condition of the fur and a smaller body mass than the mouse shown in the lower panel (B).
In my experience at home mice loose hair, have their back curl (there is a big bump on the back on the two photos above) and overall look frail. My mice are in-between of the look-degradation I have in mind for their age; but as shown above different mice can be different within the same conditions.

Edited by AgeVivo, 25 December 2012 - 05:03 PM.

[AgeVivo]

Changed cage tonight as usual. Mice looking good as usual
 2mice_301212.JPG   127.63KB   9 downloads

[AgeVivo]

Mice treated today as usual  bb_301212.JPG   75.83KB   30 downloads  bw_301212.JPG   118.59KB   29 downloads

[Adaptogen]

your mice look like they are getting younger every time i see them

[YOLF]

Did you say they were all the same age? The one that died didn't have as nice a coat from the beginning. The coats of these two have definitely remained healthy. The quality of the early pics was a bit lower than the ones we have no though so it's a little hard to tell.

Can't wait to see what happens. I hope to be joining your efforts soon. I've been trying to find 'used' mice of known age locally.

[niner]

I hope to be joining your efforts soon. I've been trying to find 'used' mice of known age locally.

If you start with older animals, all indications are that they will see less life extension than animals started at an earlier age. I'd try to get some young animals, and if you really want to do it right, get enough to maintain a control group. The information content of the young vs. old cohorts are different. If you start with young animals, and see a large life extension, then you have replicated Baati. If you start with old animals, and see a small life extension or no signal, then you haven't really learned anything, because the starting conditions of the experiment were different. I guess you would learn that it doesn't work for that animal strain, starting at that age.

[YOLF]

I've turned down a few because I either didn't know the age or they were too old. Baati started at 10 months IIRC, so I was looking for mice that were 5-6 Months and up to 10 months or rats of about 10 months. Would you recommend just buying 'new' ones at 1-2 months old and starting immediately? The other thing I hoped to do was see the results sooner. This stuff is exciting, I'm feeling a little impatient. I'm also going to start giving SV or RG C60 to a 15y/o cat.

I hope to be joining your efforts soon. I've been trying to find 'used' mice of known age locally.

If you start with older animals, all indications are that they will see less life extension than animals started at an earlier age. I'd try to get some young animals, and if you really want to do it right, get enough to maintain a control group. The information content of the young vs. old cohorts are different. If you start with young animals, and see a large life extension, then you have replicated Baati. If you start with old animals, and see a small life extension or no signal, then you haven't really learned anything, because the starting conditions of the experiment were different. I guess you would learn that it doesn't work for that animal strain, starting at that age.

[Adaptogen]

I would be interesting in seeing the effects of giving it to newly born rats.

Are there any shorter living mammals that would be an effective test subject, that would possibly show us our results in a shorter period of time? Something that lives 1 year or less vs the 2+ years of mice

[YOLF]

I was hoping to breed my mice with the parents on c60/OO and then half of the offspring on C60/OO to see how it affected fertility and some other things. I'm going to have to figure out what to do with alot of mice though. I wonder if others citizen scientists in my area would want to adopt some of my mice for use in the experiment.

[Mind]

Start small cryonicsculture. See if you can handle a couple of rats at home first. If you purchase a couple of young rats, take care of them for a couple of months and see if you think you have the patience to see this through to the end....the rats could live to be 4 to 5 years old. If things go well with just a couple of rats, then you can add to the experiment later. If you are committed to helping out in this experiment then first decide if you want to post openly like AgeVivo, or if you want to be in the less-prone-to-persuasion closed experiment. Make a post here to state your intent/start your log.

[AgeVivo]

Are there any shorter living mammals that would be an effective test subject, that would possibly show us our results in a shorter period of time? Something that lives 1 year or less vs the 2+ years of mice

I have not found such an animal. In a way (hem)... mice are a "gift" by God to help us live longer.
Some types of shrews live 18 months. Not *that* much less than mice and very little about their aging is known so far less interesting than mice (unless you want to take the first long step to caracterize its ageing process as thoroughly as you can, and hope that there is nothing special with it) - http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19296507

your mice look like they are getting younger every time i see them

I took images when they were young and I am posting them now in reverse order

Did you say they were all the same age? The one that died didn't have as nice a coat from the beginning. The coats of these two have definitely remained healthy. The quality of the early pics was a bit lower than the ones we have no though so it's a little hard to tell.

Yes same age. Yes the one that died first didn't look as healthy at first but I thought it was more a different type of caracter perhaps, plus it was white when the other ones were most black, so I think perhaps she got more from the mother or the father. I wasn't expecting to see it die much before the other ones.

Can't wait to see what happens. I hope to be joining your efforts soon. I've been trying to find 'used' mice of known age locally.

Great, PM me so that we can discuss.

If you start with older animals, all indications are that they will see less life extension than animals started at an earlier age.

Baati et al started at age 10 months. I started at age 18 months (perhaps that's why the first one died; if C60oo works). If c60oo works I would guess that as long as the mice do not have a severe condition initiated that the c60oo won't help reverse, we should see lage effects; so starting with say 14 month animals should work (mice or rats, they have the same lifespan it then depend on the strain)

[trance]

I took images when they were young and I am posting them now in reverse order

Hah ... that would have been a great idea !

Maybe we can dye their hair, sport a tan, get their teeth whitened, and photograph them under perfect lighting conditions for the rest of the "after" photos.

[AgeVivo]

Would you recommend just buying 'new' ones at 1-2 months old and starting immediately?

Yes if you feel like it and are not someone that starts one thing and stops the next month. If you have been strognly interested in biology of aging for more than 3 years my intuition is that it is a good sign. You would raise them until they are, say, 10 month old, and they you would either give c60oo or the most potent thing of that time (depending on the results we will have got by then). To me, spending years here without doing anything for research or strong advocacy is slightly a loss of time.

I was hoping to breed my mice with the parents on c60/OO and then half of the offspring on C60/OO to see how it affected fertility

Oh oh. Breeding mice is not easy. Many parameters count. There are some good educational pages about it online but I don't think this is easily feasible at home -- I would likely not trust your results, whether they are good or bad.

adopt some of my mice for use in the experiment.

better buy them in a petshop. Very easy, very cheap, quality ensured along with good advice from vendors at any working day.

Start small cryonicsculture. (...). Make a post here to state your intent/start your log.

I second. Quite inline with what I wrote above.

Ok I was coming here to post the images from yesterday and I started answering all. Here they are:
 both_050113.JPG   83.13KB   26 downloads  b_060113.JPG   72.96KB   25 downloads  bw_060113.JPG   49.78KB   22 downloads
First image is on Saturday nigth, before changing the cage. Not sure if I have put enough taint

[YOLF]

Mice are now 25 months?

[AgeVivo]

Yes, even 25.5 months
 both_130113.JPG   56.28KB   13 downloads  bw_130113.JPG   42.49KB   16 downloads  b_130113.JPG   32.63KB   14 downloads
They have very nice hair and are still well curious and active (I have taken videos; perhaps I'll take the time to put them online). No appearent ageing to me; I mean, to me they look neither like young adults nor elederly mice. Hopefully it will continue. I am getting to the end of the c60oo, beginning of January I have asked Baati et al for a new one but no answer yet: I hope I'll be able to feed them tomorrow.

Edited by AgeVivo, 13 January 2013 - 10:49 PM.

[Raphy]

Yes, even 25.5 months
 both_130113.JPG   56.28KB   13 downloads  bw_130113.JPG   42.49KB   16 downloads  b_130113.JPG   32.63KB   14 downloads
They have very nice hair and are still well curious and active (I have taken videos; perhaps I'll take the time to put them online). No appearent ageing to me; I mean, to me they look neither like young adults nor elederly mice. Hopefully it will continue. I am getting to the end of the c60oo, beginning of January I have asked Baati et al for a new one but no answer yet: I hope I'll be able to feed them tomorrow.

Hi AgeVivo,

Worst case scenario, SW is quite fast in sending C60oo, though we can't guarantee the quality of the product.

But it'll be a shame to end such a great experiment! Long live your mice!

Raphael

[stephen_b]

AgeVivo, just curious, are you well acquainted with how elderly mice look and act? (I'm not.)

[Mind]

I could purchase you some new C60oo if you need some. This experiment is worthy of continuing.

[Link]

Did you say they were all the same age? The one that died didn't have as nice a coat from the beginning. The coats of these two have definitely remained healthy. The quality of the early pics was a bit lower than the ones we have no though so it's a little hard to tell.

Can't wait to see what happens. I hope to be joining your efforts soon. I've been trying to find 'used' mice of known age locally.

You could buy mice from a laboratory, they would likely be more expensive than store bought mice but you should be able to order them for the exact age that you need. Also, they would be more genetically consistent than store bought mice if you were going to do a controlled experiment.

Here is a place that sells them.

http://www.criver.co...wiss_Mouse.aspx

Edited by Link, 14 January 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[niner]

Thanks for that, Link. Here's the US Price list for C57BL/6 from the same site (Charles River). These mice range from 18-30 bucks a pop, depending on age and gender. If someone is going to run a mouse experiment, I think this would be a great thing for Longecity to pick up the tab on. Using a known strain, of known age is profoundly better than buying a bunch of mystery mice at a pet store. Pet stores are notorious for selling sick animals.

Edited by niner, 14 January 2013 - 11:12 PM.

[Link]

Thanks for that, Link. Here's the US Price list for C57BL/6 from the same site (Charles River). These mice range from 18-30 bucks a pop, depending on age and gender. If someone is going to run a mouse experiment, I think this would be a great thing for Longecity to pick up the tab on. Using a known strain, of known age is profoundly better than buying a bunch of mystery mice at a pet store. Pet stores are notorious for selling sick animals.

That's a good point also, with store bought mice you don't really know their breeding history or what kind of parasites they could have been exposed to. In think the price is justified given the amount of time and effort that will be going into a two year + long experiment.

[YOLF]

Thanks for that, Link. Here's the US Price list for C57BL/6 from the same site (Charles River). These mice range from 18-30 bucks a pop, depending on age and gender. If someone is going to run a mouse experiment, I think this would be a great thing for Longecity to pick up the tab on. Using a known strain, of known age is profoundly better than buying a bunch of mystery mice at a pet store. Pet stores are notorious for selling sick animals.

Are those the glow in the dark mice or are those black 7s?