9 replies to this topic

[reason]

The build up of senescent cells is one of the contributing causes of aging, and is partially due to the progressive failure of the immune system to destroy these cells as they crop up. Many of the changes that come with aging accelerate as they progress, and this piece provides one example as to why this is the case; for senescent cells, the more you have the faster they accumulate: "Cells may become senescent in an effort to protect the body such as when tumor suppressor genes shut down division to prevent cancer. However other sorts of damage may lead cells to stop dividing as well. A pivotal study last year showed elegantly using a trangenic approach that if senescent cells were regularly cleared from the body of mice, signs of aging in many tissues were dramatically reduced. The explanation for this result was that somehow senescent cells were damaging nearby cells, perhaps by excreting toxic materials. ... A newly published study [proves] or the first time that senescent cells do indeed damage nearby cells causing them to become senescent too. It also shows this occurs through direct cell to cell contact and resultant spread of reactive oxygen species. Furthermore it shows evidence this process occurs in the living organism as clusters of cells bearing senescent makers are found in mice livers. Clearly the next and important step for helping to reduce aging in humans is developing a safe and effective method presumably using a pharmacological agent in which senescent cells can be removed from the body."

Link: http://extremelongev...come-senescent/

<br> <br>View the full article

[johnross47]

Wasn't one of the claims made for astragalus/cycloastragenol that it promoted apoptosis in senescent cells?

[mpe]

Hmmm, could buckyballs and olive oil, protect neighboring cells from the senescent cells ROS production ?

[zorba990]

Hmmm, could buckyballs and olive oil, protect neighboring cells from the senescent cells ROS production ?

This
Fullerene derivatives induce premature senescence: a new toxicity paradigm or novel biomedical applications.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20045429

is interesting.

[Mind]

Just a reminder of some other good discussions regarding this topic:

A discussion about the original MAYO mouse study.

An interview with Kevin Perrott who is actively researching senescent cells.

Ideas Forum discussion about how Longecity could help in senescent cell research.

Because of the curiosity and open speculation behind one tiny life extension study involving C60 in olive oil, many people are optimistically projecting (I think), many methods of action. If human history is any guide, there is no magical single potion to reverse aging. It will likely take some sophisticated bio-technological interventions yet to be perfected and/or invented. However, it does seem we are closing in upon some robust interventions (and substances) to slow aging down to a crawl. It is human nature to assume additive benefits from supplements that operate upon the same metabolic pathways, but I want to caution everyone that this is usually not the case. If substance A, B, and C all operate on metabolic pathway X, it does not necessarily follow that A+B+C will do an even better job at manipulating matebolic pathway X to your benefit. Without extensive double blind in-vivo research on each substance in isolation and in combination, you should assume it is as likely you are killing yourself as retarding aging.

Also remember the dose-response curve. More is not always better. So not only could combinations of exotic supplements be killing you, you might be dosing in a way that produces harm. Sorry to be a buzzkill, but someone has to do it. Opales hasn't been around in a couple of years.

Personally, I would feel comfortable combining CR, exercise, and maybe one speculative supplement (like resveratrol, metformin, C60, etc...). I take fish oil, Vimmortal, D3, and low dose aspirin, at appropriate dosages for my age and weight, because these have a long extensive history of safety and efficacy (in the case of Vimmortal, the individual constituents are generally considered safe). I know they aren't "sexy" but I rest easy at night knowing that I am not killing myself or destroying various organs.

If you are going to experiment with your health you should really get some objective evidence besides "I feel good". In my recent interview with Dave Asprey (yet to be posted) you will hear how he extensively tested aging bio-markers and other health metrics in order to make sure his extensive and somewhat radical interventions into his health were not doing harm. You should do the same.

[xEva]

... senescent cells do indeed damage nearby cells causing them to become senescent too. It also shows this occurs through direct cell to cell contact and resultant spread of reactive oxygen species.

This is more consistent with spreading of an infection.

My rationale: It is in interests of intracellular pathogens to inhibit both, autophagy (thus leading to destabilization of cellular processes and emergence of senescent phenotype) and appoptosis --cause the infected cell is their home-- (thus causing an infected, senescent cell to persist).

This, to me, is a far plausible scenario than some mis-evolved response in the body, detrimental to self. I rather think that body works fine. Until pathogens interfere.

And, by the way, when immune cells have to take a cell out, to me that's seems like an action of last resort. A cell is programmed to appoptose and do it cleanly. Why does the program fail? Whodoneit logic points at infection as the most likely culprit, no?

[Mind]

Infectious action, for whatever reason, is often an attractive theory. In fact, infectious agents have been theorized to cause pretty much EVERY disease, malady, and malfunction of the human body at some point in history. Look up the history of any disease and you will find someone speculating that some germ causes it (even obesity!). A grand theory of "infection causing aging" is not out of the question, but accumulated damage is as likely in my view.

[Logic]

This
Fullerene derivatives induce premature senescence: a new toxicity paradigm or novel biomedical applications.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20045429

is interesting.

Very!
So is the senescence caused by chemically modified fullerene derivative tris carboxyl fullerene adduct (tris-C(60)) desireable, or does it kill off older cells too soon is the question here.

---------------------------------

This stuff looks interesting for killing off senescent cells, but no real research I can find.
http://www.salvestrol.ca/index.asp

An objective viewpoint with interesting responses:
http://www.quackomet...trade-offs.html

Quote:
I would encourage people to have some patience here. I understand the value of a Quackometer, but I don’t think there’s evidence to include salvestrols.
I have met Gerry Potter twice. He is Professor of Medicinal Medicine and Director of the Cancer Drug Discovery Group at the School of Pharmacy at De Montford University, in Leicester. He is genuine, sincere, and a solid scientist. See http://www.dmu.ac.uk...res_gpotter.jsp.

The science behind salvestrols starts with Gerry’s work on resveratrol (found in red grapes), which triggers an enzyme that is present in every cancer cell to produce a compound called piceatannol, which then attacks the cancer cell, and the cancer cell alone.
He developed a drug to mimic the role of resveratrol in fighting cancer, which is going through clinical trials. He then asked the question, “Since nature did not need a drug to trigger the enzymes, the enzyme must exist in nature. So where is it?”

After analyzing every kind of food, his team found it in abundance in organic food, and named the family of compounds salvestrols. When ripe fruits and vegetables are attacked by fungus, which happens all the time, they develop the salvestrols as a natural defence. When we eat the plants, the salvestrols in the food trigger the enzymes in any cancer cell to produce piceatannol, which then attacks the cancer.
Having discovered this, his team searched for plants that had the highest level of salvestrols, and stared testing to see if the compound would fight an active cancer if eaten as a supplement. When they discovered that it seemed that they did, he helped create the Nature’s Defence to sell the food supplements as Fruitforce; these are simply concentrated salvestrols, taken from fruit.

The salvestrols are currently undergoing clinical trials in London, Dublin and Malaysia, and it will be several years until these are complete. Until then, all evidence of their effectiveness is rightly considered “anecdotal”. That word covers everything from “I heard it at the bus stop” to (in the case of salvestrols) evidence from doctors supervising cancer patients who are using the salvestrols. It is not true that all anecdotes are nearly worthless. Some are; some are not. It depends on the source of the evidence.

As to the company being formed, this was the best way to get the salvestrols distributed so that people with cancer could benefit from them, and so that a body of informal evidence could be gathered. The income goes back into further research.

Cancer is such an insidious disease that I really welcome a development such as this. It is completely right that we should cast a skeptical eye on new developments, since the world is full of scams and quackeries, but this one deserves to be given patience while the clinical trials are proceeding.
Sincerely,
Guy Dauncey
Canada

Edited by Logic, 15 June 2012 - 12:58 PM.

[xEva]

Infectious action, for whatever reason, is often an attractive theory. In fact, infectious agents have been theorized to cause pretty much EVERY disease, malady, and malfunction of the human body at some point in history. Look up the history of any disease and you will find someone speculating that some germ causes it (even obesity!). A grand theory of "infection causing aging" is not out of the question, but accumulated damage is as likely in my view.

We continue to disregard infectious etiology of most diseases, based on the outdated view that was the result of outdated technology that for decades could not find evidence of infections in tissues. This situation has changed recently. Microbial DNA has been found in just about all tissues, which, until very recently, were considered sterile in a healthy body (= without overt symptoms of a disease). Our view needs to be updated accordingly. It has not happened yet.

The microbes that rules this planet is the dust from which life comes and to which it returns. Apparently they colonize us soon after birth and their population grows steadily, culminating with wild party at death. We die of infections.

[Logic]

While there is no published research on Salvestrols yet; I have a feeling that will change soon.
And the people behind them arent quacks.

It seems that they have found a gene that is expressed in senecent/pre-cancerous cells called CYP1B1.
This activates Salvestrols; which causes apoptosis of the sick cell. Resveratrol is one.

http://orthomolecula...v22n01-p039.pdf

http://salvestrolinf...l-research.html

Edited by Logic, 06 July 2012 - 03:02 PM.