298 replies to this topic

[Lister]

I can see what you’re saying, and I did more or less say exactly that in my last post where I mentioned BS.

Where I think you and others are missing the mark here is in terms of Degree. Jumping on someone the second they’re slightly wrong is going too far. I have huge respect for those of this community who are professionals in the field and as far as I can see they have had little trouble keeping topics they’re interested in on track without being insulting. It’s the middle group battling for higher ground that end up stomping on the new comers or each other unnecessarily.

Threads require attention or they die. Now unless you have a forum full of totally unreasonable uneducated fools (which I haven’t seen any evidence of) then fairly quickly the majority will see reason and let the thread die. The individual in question can keep posting however if the majority have left the building they’ve got no hope. And you do all this without shutting anyone down.

Telling people they’re wrong niner is all well and good; but telling people they’re wrong quickly and sharply adds in the idea that they’re also a fool. It’s insulting.

I know that the mods of this forum wish it to be seen as being respectable and a trust worthy source and I can see many, many troubles with that. While I hesitate to critique that path I can say that this is a forum open to the public; not an exclusive group of verified professionals conducting peer reviewed studies.

While it’s not yet a BIG issue here you have to be careful when dealing with the general public. I may be used to being slapped around by professors as I’m sure many of you are; but that doesn’t mean everyone is.

Speculation guiding forum topic conversation is scary I know. But the people speculating here are easily guided along in the right direction. You wouldn’t have to have patience like this if everyone here was a PHD, but they’re not so you’ll have to suck it up.

“Sarah is right here but it looks like this and this is wrong. I’m not sure this section is correct or is it?” Instead of “It’s foolish”. Now you’ve just created a discussion rather than slapped anyone who quoted Sarah as a source. Is that not easy?

[Anthony_Loera]

Lister,

I understand what you are saying up to a point. Let's face it, Sarah like myself own companies and promote products... while others who are visiting want to read about the latest thinking regarding C60 and Olive oil.

For folks like Sara or myself, there is always going to be a separate level of trust that we will need to achieve, compared to the average person who visits and posts here.

From my experience in this forum and as a person who has a business (and has been posting here since 2007), I have to say that you will need some pretty thick skin at times. I don't know how many times people called me names here, or argued with me... but when I started to take practical advice from members and non-members of this forum regarding what they wanted to see or test regarding our products... Well, I quickly realized the enormous benefits my business would have by taking some of the members advice (and heck, a lot of the advice was not given a nice manner!).

Once in a while I still give in to being argumentative, I realize that and yet.. well I need to work on that, as I am only human.

To sum up: If Sara has a business and posts here, then she should expect criticisms in this forum, period. Treating business folks with kid gloves, is not going to happen a lot here, as many want to ask some tough questions.

My advice? Don't shy away, and see that for the most part, the folks here want for you to succeed... or at least provide you hints as to where your marketing maybe faulty for the cynical and the knowledgeable folks... yes even if you initially may perceive it as an attack.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers
A

[tintinet]

ISTM Sarah is quite capable of defending her viewpoints and advice WRT C60 OO. I certainly take none of the dosing advice about it as gospel, given the total absence of any studies about C60 OO dosing or effects on humans.

[Lister]

Lister,

I understand what you are saying up to a point. Let's face it, Sarah like myself own companies and promote products... while others who are visiting want to read about the latest thinking regarding C60 and Olive oil.

For folks like Sara or myself, there is always going to be a separate level of trust that we will need to achieve, compared to the average person who visits and posts here.

From my experience in this forum and as a person who has a business (and has been posting here since 2007), I have to say that you will need some pretty thick skin at times. I don't know how many times people called me names here, or argued with me... but when I started to take practical advice from members and non-members of this forum regarding what they wanted to see or test regarding our products... Well, I quickly realized the enormous benefits my business would have by taking some of the members advice (and heck, a lot of the advice was not given a nice manner!).

Once in a while I still give in to being argumentative, I realize that and yet.. well I need to work on that, as I am only human.

To sum up: If Sara has a business and posts here, then she should expect criticisms in this forum, period. Treating business folks with kid gloves, is not going to happen a lot here, as many want to ask some tough questions.

My advice? Don't shy away, and see that for the most part, the folks here want for you to succeed... or at least provide you hints as to where your marketing maybe faulty for the cynical and the knowledgeable folks... yes even if you initially may perceive it as an attack.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers
A

I would never try and defend and support someone who is defending and supporting their product unless they had reasonable evidence they were right (or I had an investment in them being right). People attacking Vaughter or others for being wrong in advertised claims is just something to expect. If you want me to buy your product you better not be lying to me about the results. Fine.

I do feel though it is sometimes important to be critical of those being critical. People often allow their emotions to get the better of them. It seems that the emotional drive for credibility is at times unreasonably pushed in some of the topics here. While credibility and accurate results are understandably desirable, maintaining content rich conversation is just as important.

Regardless I have successfully derailed this whole topic. Whoops... But that doesn't mean it can't easily be brought back on topic:

My Roommate (the one with MS) has continued to notice improvements to her MS related symptoms. Her balance has continued to improve at the same rate as her cardio improvement. She hasn't burnt either (UV protection) and hasn't noticed and increased sensitivity to Caffeine.

**Edit: My Roommate has been taking 1.5 mgs/Daily SV C60-OO. She is 36 and in good health other than her MS. No smoking, heavy drinking or other bad habbits.

Has anyone yet had full blood work done and posted the results?

Edited by Lister, 15 July 2012 - 12:30 AM.

[SarahVaughter]

Before anyone accuses us of having commercial motives in our dosing recommendations, please remember that our recommendation is ten times lower, mg/kg, as the rat dose used. If we tried to optimize profits, that would be a particularly bad way of going about it. Our dosing recommendations have nothing to do with commercial factors.

Edited by SarahVaughter, 15 July 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[Junk Master]

I find Sarah's dosing recommendations as very conservative. She could be advocating 4/5 a cup a day for a couple weeks, no?

[Lister]

As far as I've seen from the results thus far, dose size doesn't seem as important as frequency. Those that are reporting results (and I may be wrong here) seem to be the ones taking smaller doses more frequently rather than larger doses infrequently.

Am I making connections that aren’t there? I don't see anyone saying "My results seem to be clearer because I'm taking 10x more than you" or "My results are less obvious because of my smaller dose size." We should really catalog this information...

[FrankMH]

Before anyone accuses us of having commercial motives in our dosing recommendations, please remember that our recommendation is ten times lower, mg/kg, as the rat dose used. If we tried to optimize profits, that would be a particularly bad way of going about it. Our dosing recommendations have nothing to do with commercial factors.

Well you wouldn't want to lose credibility by recommending high doses would you? Then your profits really would suffer! Just kidding btw.

[tintinet]

As far as I've seen from the results thus far, dose size doesn't seem as important as frequency. Those that are reporting results (and I may be wrong here) seem to be the ones taking smaller doses more frequently rather than larger doses infrequently.

Am I making connections that aren’t there? I don't see anyone saying "My results seem to be clearer because I'm taking 10x more than you" or "My results are less obvious because of my smaller dose size." We should really catalog this information...

I don't think I find any consistency WRT reported effects, irrespective of dosing.

[Junk Master]

I agree with Tintinet; with the caveat that I'm now dosing twice a day 1 mg per dose after noticing an immediate increase in mental clarity/energy holding the C60/OO sublingually and swishing it around before swallowing and I like the effect.

[MarcD]

increase in mental clarity/energy holding the C60/OO sublingually is a new reported effect, isn't it? I'll try it out

[stephen_b]

increase in mental clarity/energy holding the C60/OO sublingually is a new reported effect, isn't it? I'll try it out

The molecular weight of C60 is about 721 g/mol, making it kinda big. Lots of olive oil polyphenols have molecular weights under 200 g/mol though. It might be a good idea to test whether the benefits are there when taking olive oil sublingually without C60 in it.

[maxwatt]

Or it could be the ubiquitous placebo effect rearing it's cute little head.

[zorba990]

increase in mental clarity/energy holding the C60/OO sublingually is a new reported effect, isn't it? I'll try it out

The molecular weight of C60 is about 721 g/mol, making it kinda big. Lots of olive oil polyphenols have molecular weights under 200 g/mol though. It might be a good idea to test whether the benefits are there when taking olive oil sublingually without C60 in it.

I just tried Bariani 1 T (approx...., honestly I drink it straight from the bottle as its much less messy that way rather than blending with my protein raspberry shake) and I really couldn't do it. The burn started (normally not an issue) and spread over to my tonsil area and I had to swallow. The burn on my tonsil area was pretty intense for about another 30 seconds or so. An interesting experience but not going to repeat it anytime soon.

[Junk Master]

It has to be better than I.M injections like the Cerebrolysin boys.

[Hebbeh]

increase in mental clarity/energy holding the C60/OO sublingually is a new reported effect, isn't it? I'll try it out

The molecular weight of C60 is about 721 g/mol, making it kinda big. Lots of olive oil polyphenols have molecular weights under 200 g/mol though. It might be a good idea to test whether the benefits are there when taking olive oil sublingually without C60 in it.

Would this be the case even when dissolved and in solution within the olive oil? It's being sold already as an ingredient of high end cosmetics. If it can penetrate the skin barrier, would it not penetrate the mucosa? And if it penetrates the cell wall as has been theorized, it certainly would penetrate the mucosa, wouldn't it?

[niner]

increase in mental clarity/energy holding the C60/OO sublingually is a new reported effect, isn't it? I'll try it out

The molecular weight of C60 is about 721 g/mol, making it kinda big. Lots of olive oil polyphenols have molecular weights under 200 g/mol though. It might be a good idea to test whether the benefits are there when taking olive oil sublingually without C60 in it.

Would this be the case even when dissolved and in solution within the olive oil? It's being sold already as an ingredient of high end cosmetics. If it can penetrate the skin barrier, would it not penetrate the mucosa? And if it penetrates the cell wall as has been theorized, it certainly would penetrate the mucosa, wouldn't it?

If it's just pristine C60, then I think that it will probably get in sublingually. Normally, a molecule that heavy (721g/m) would have all kinds of pendant groups hanging off of it, and would tend to have a convoluted shape. C60 is kind of like a little ball bearing as far as shape is concerned. If it's really pure C60, that is. If it's an olive oil adduct, if probably wouldn't get in. There should be some of both in the olive oil solution, although over time, the adduct may be favored. It would be a good idea to run a control experiment with pure olive oil to see if the polyphenols or some other olive oil component might be responsible for the effect.

[Hebbeh]

increase in mental clarity/energy holding the C60/OO sublingually is a new reported effect, isn't it? I'll try it out

The molecular weight of C60 is about 721 g/mol, making it kinda big. Lots of olive oil polyphenols have molecular weights under 200 g/mol though. It might be a good idea to test whether the benefits are there when taking olive oil sublingually without C60 in it.

Would this be the case even when dissolved and in solution within the olive oil? It's being sold already as an ingredient of high end cosmetics. If it can penetrate the skin barrier, would it not penetrate the mucosa? And if it penetrates the cell wall as has been theorized, it certainly would penetrate the mucosa, wouldn't it?

If it's just pristine C60, then I think that it will probably get in sublingually. Normally, a molecule that heavy (721g/m) would have all kinds of pendant groups hanging off of it, and would tend to have a convoluted shape. C60 is kind of like a little ball bearing as far as shape is concerned. If it's really pure C60, that is. If it's an olive oil adduct, if probably wouldn't get in. There should be some of both in the olive oil solution, although over time, the adduct may be favored. It would be a good idea to run a control experiment with pure olive oil to see if the polyphenols or some other olive oil component might be responsible for the effect.

Well, I just did some more experimenting. First, another thing I've been noticing recently is my tinnitus has gotten a little worse...I've suspected the C60 but haven't said anything because wasn't sure. Little background...When I started sublingual Uridine, my tinnitus worsened. Over time, either it lessened or I just got used to the new baseline tinnitus. Anyway, I squirted 4.8mg C60/OO under my tongue and held as much as possible for a good 10 minutes. I definitely felt a mental effect...definitely a little anxiety...which isn't normal for me. And now my tinnitus is WAY louder buzzing in my ears...usually the tinnitus doesn't bother too much as used to it...but this extremely annoying. But yeah, I supposed it could just all be in my head... ..But I suggest others try it.

Edited by Hebbeh, 17 July 2012 - 01:25 AM.

[niner]

Well, I just did some more experimenting. First, another thing I've been noticing recently is my tinnitus has gotten a little worse...I've suspected the C60 but haven't said anything because wasn't sure. Little background...When I started sublingual Uridine, my tinnitus worsened. Over time, either it lessened or I just got used to the new baseline tinnitus. Anyway, I squirted 4.8mg C60/OO under my tongue and held as much as possible for a good 10 minutes. I definitely felt a mental effect...definitely a little anxiety...which isn't normal for me. And now my tinnitus is WAY louder buzzing in my ears...usually the tinnitus doesn't bother too much as used to it...but this extremely annoying. But yeah, I supposed it could just all be in my head... ..But I suggest others try it.

Did you notice the tinnitus getting worse from regular oral dosing, or just from sublingual?

[Junk Master]

I've done it a few times now and definitely get a bit of a rush. I had some tinnitus while using higher doses of sublingual Uridine and also NOOPEPT, but haven't got it with the C60/OO yet.

I have no doubt something is happening but I guess I should try some good olive oil sublingually just to see what happens.

[tintinet]

Now that you mention it (and perhaps, because you mention it), my tinnitus also seems a bit increased. But I tend to think that every time I think about it, ISTM.

[Hebbeh]

Well, I just did some more experimenting. First, another thing I've been noticing recently is my tinnitus has gotten a little worse...I've suspected the C60 but haven't said anything because wasn't sure. Little background...When I started sublingual Uridine, my tinnitus worsened. Over time, either it lessened or I just got used to the new baseline tinnitus. Anyway, I squirted 4.8mg C60/OO under my tongue and held as much as possible for a good 10 minutes. I definitely felt a mental effect...definitely a little anxiety...which isn't normal for me. And now my tinnitus is WAY louder buzzing in my ears...usually the tinnitus doesn't bother too much as used to it...but this extremely annoying. But yeah, I supposed it could just all be in my head... ..But I suggest others try it.

Did you notice the tinnitus getting worse from regular oral dosing, or just from sublingual?

Not sure as I've been squirting the C60/OO in my mouth all along and it doesn't get washed down immediately so could of been getting a "little" sublingual effect from that possibly...but had noticed my tinnitus seemed a little worse...but tonight when I held a mouthful for 10 minutes...my tinnitus seems twice as loud as normal. Also of note....after the sublingual tonight, I felt a little "spacey" while cooking supper and kept misplacing utensils...my ADD seemed worse. I've been diagnosed with ADD years ago and used to be medicated with adderall but haven't used it for probably 5 years...anyway, my ADD manifests itself in difficulty focusing due to too many simultaneous thoughts...best described as trying to participate in multiple conversions simultaneously and everything getting lost in the noise....and that seems affected for the worse at the moment..

[Junk Master]

That's not ADD, just genius.

[zorba990]

It's not tinnitus, it's your DNA changing and your new ability to hear the signal.

You're awake now, there's no going back.

[pashley]

Just wondering what effect c60 has on virus/bacteria's. What are your thoughts?

[Lister]

Just wondering what effect c60 has on virus/bacteria's. What are your thoughts?

This is actually right along with what I was going to report. My kidneys are getting worse. I stopped taking C60 close to 7 days ago so like last time I'm sure its effect on my system has diminished (the cardio benefits and energy levels sure have). I'm going to the doctor in just under 2 hours so we'll find out for sure.

I think I have an infection. This tenderness was here before I started on C60. When I was on C60 it got worse... I have a feeling the C60 was dealing with the infection somehow. I haven't seen too many comments on C60's effect on virus/bacteria yet... Could it be making a difference?

[revenant]

Just wondering what effect c60 has on virus/bacteria's. What are your thoughts?

This is actually right along with what I was going to report. My kidneys are getting worse. I stopped taking C60 close to 7 days ago so like last time I'm sure its effect on my system has diminished (the cardio benefits and energy levels sure have). I'm going to the doctor in just under 2 hours so we'll find out for sure.

I think I have an infection. This tenderness was here before I started on C60. When I was on C60 it got worse... I have a feeling the C60 was dealing with the infection somehow. I haven't seen too many comments on C60's effect on virus/bacteria yet... Could it be making a difference?

Search Google Scholar for "C60 reverse transcriptase inhibitor", there are some studies that point to an apparent antiviral affect. Not too much info out there about antibacterial effects that I could find right away.

[Turnbuckle]

I think I have an infection. This tenderness was here before I started on C60. When I was on C60 it got worse... I have a feeling the C60 was dealing with the infection somehow. I haven't seen too many comments on C60's effect on virus/bacteria yet... Could it be making a difference?

PQQ is a supplement that induces the biogenesis of mitochondria. It also does this for bacteria, which isn't surprising as they are related. C60, on the other hand, whatever it does to enhance the viability of mitochondria, has generally been shown to be neutral or toxic for bacteria. Experiments have tended to be at high concentrations, however, or in water solutions.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 17 July 2012 - 08:18 PM.

[pashley]

It would be interesting to see the action of c60 on a petri dish infected with bacteria? and or parasites? Parasites cause many chronic illness's. If the body could free itself of infections then the immune system isn't so taxed. A healthy gut means a healthy brain as most of our seratonin comes from out gut.

Revenant - Could it be a kidney stone?

[pashley]

I am probably a good test subject for c60. I have some coming so will try some. If it is neutral or toxic to infectious agents then no problems. Also if I can be confident it is harmful to parasites then that eases my mind greatly in taking it.

I have had full blood tests done including hormone panels. I have also undergone a 4 week full body detox and have had 12 RHP/Eboo ozone blood transfusions to deal with Lyme. My body should be saturated with oxygen. I have done liver flushes and removed many stones and had numerous colonic cleanses. I should be pretty clean internally.

The numerous ozone treatments should also have knocked out the lyme and coinfections. I just need to repair metabolic damage and endocrine damage that Lyme has wreaked on my system.

I will report in with any experiences and get a full bloodwork done after a few months to see if their has been any change.