298 replies to this topic

[pashley]

Just another thought - is c60 a positively or negatively charged particle.

I have been reading about earthing sheets and the effect they have on the body to reduce inflammation. A wholistic cardiologist - Steven Sinatra ? believes a lot of the body's inflammation comes from the efm's, electricity and RFs as our bodies are constantly swimming in them.

thanks

[niner]

Just another thought - is c60 a positively or negatively charged particle.

I have been reading about earthing sheets and the effect they have on the body to reduce inflammation. A wholistic cardiologist - Steven Sinatra ? believes a lot of the body's inflammation comes from the efm's, electricity and RFs as our bodies are constantly swimming in them.

C60 is neutral, but it can take on electrons very easily, so it is capable of developing a charge, at least transiently. However, whether or not it's charged isn't likely to make much difference with respect to earthing, or grounding as it's called in some parts. Your body is full of charged particles; they're everywhere. They are always counterbalanced by ions of the opposite charge, so everything remains electrically neutral overall and doesn't fly apart due to electrostatic repulsion. Despite this, a lot of biological molecules (most, actually) have large dipole moments, and might be getting batted back and forth in a 60Hz field. Earthing sounds crazy, but I think there's something to it. We didn't evolve in a world awash in EMF.

[maxwatt]

Maybe there's something to those tin-foil helmets people laugh at. Grounded, they'd provide some protection.

[Lister]

So, as it turns out I’m just paranoid. No Kidney issues and no lung issues or any other C60 related issues. Some fibre issues and some muscle strain is all I’m looking at.

My Doctor cleared me followed up by lecturing me on the consumption of non-FDA approved substances.

I’m probably going to start using Resveratrol in conjunction with C60. As I’ve been back on C60 again for the last few days I’m starting to notice the aches again which I can now associate with overdoing it physically. They’re all muscle aches and pains.

It now occurs to me that since taking C60 I’ve been doing vastly more physical work than I’ve done in a long time (Moving the majority of my apartment by myself up 3 flights of stairs, Moving loads of very heavy IKEA boxed furniture around, etc). More energy makes you want to do more.

I guess then with about a month of C60 under my belt I would say a few things:

• I don’t think you need to take large doses
• For me at least breaking up dosing into once-per-day sections is best
• Side effects are limited at best
• Effects overall are limited
• Your Cardio system may be improved so be careful not to over exert yourself
• We don’t know the long term effects (Guesses are the best we’ve got)

Other than that I’ve got 6 bottles of SV C60-OO left; I figure I’ll settle in to a nice 1.5mg/day dose long term. We’ll see if the addition of Resveratrol makes a difference or not.

[Junk Master]

You doc lectures you on non-FDA approved substances and you decide to add Resveratrol to your stack. Sounds like you're on the right forum!

[zorba990]

So, as it turns out I’m just paranoid. No Kidney issues and no lung issues or any other C60 related issues. Some fibre issues and some muscle strain is all I’m looking at.

My Doctor cleared me followed up by lecturing me on the consumption of non-FDA approved substances.

I’m probably going to start using Resveratrol in conjunction with C60. As I’ve been back on C60 again for the last few days I’m starting to notice the aches again which I can now associate with overdoing it physically. They’re all muscle aches and pains.

It now occurs to me that since taking C60 I’ve been doing vastly more physical work than I’ve done in a long time (Moving the majority of my apartment by myself up 3 flights of stairs, Moving loads of very heavy IKEA boxed furniture around, etc). More energy makes you want to do more.

I guess then with about a month of C60 under my belt I would say a few things:

• I don’t think you need to take large doses
• For me at least breaking up dosing into once-per-day sections is best
• Side effects are limited at best
• Effects overall are limited
• Your Cardio system may be improved so be careful not to over exert yourself
• We don’t know the long term effects (Guesses are the best we’ve got)

Other than that I’ve got 6 bottles of SV C60-OO left; I figure I’ll settle in to a nice 1.5mg/day dose long term. We’ll see if the addition of Resveratrol makes a difference or not.

Excellent! I've had that same kind of muscle tension. Recommend foam rolling now.
Thanks for updating us.

[Metrodorus]

I've been quiet on the forums for a bit - on 25 June I injured myself in the gym ( I am a 5x a week gym bunny) as a result of dramatically increased ability to sustain my workout - which I attribute to the fullerene supplementation - getting a rather severe case of tennis elbow from the extra reps I was doing. It is still sensitive and I am now icing it. It is on the mend, but will still be sensitive I guess for a couple more weeks. When I return to the gym I will go back to my old high masses and low reps - and have to learn how to read my body responses as they are different now.

I am continuing with taking fullerene. My daily walks are effortless. My lifts were out this week due to the power company doing work - I walked down 19 floors and back up again two days ago to visit the post office - and didn't notice it at all - even though I am very fit, previously walking up my 19 flights was something of an effort, and I felt it in my calves. This time, no muscle burn whatsoever.

I still walk to work - about 3 hours of walking a day - which I regard as 3 hours of focussed study time using my ipod - I get sweaty, but not tired.

My dosage varies per diem, but is in the range of 30 - 40mg per day - I keep olive oil on the table ( have for about 10 years now), and have always used it in place of butter or margarine. I have simply substituted the fullerene oil I made up ( 0.9g per litre of dissolved fullerene) for the most part of my daily olive oil consumption.

My diet is high protein(oily fish and whey protein for the most part), high vegetable (and fish) oils, and high in legumes, with very low grain based carbs ( I am coeliac). I add a couple of teaspoons psyllium husk to a daily drink to ensure enough dietary fiber goes through my system.

I made up my batch of fullerene using 5g from SES of 99.5 and dissolved it for a month in a warm dark environment, sealed from the atmosphere( the other .5 mostly being C70 with a tiny fraction of amorphous carbon). The colour is a very vibrant when held up to sunlight - almost fluorescent - purple - my poor quality phone camera does not capture it. I get through the small glass jar pictured in a week.

Edited by Metrodorus, 22 July 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

I've been quiet on the forums for a bit - on 25 June I injured myself in the gym ( I am a 5x a week gym bunny) as a result of dramatically increased ability to sustain my workout - which I attribute to the fullerene supplementation - getting a rather severe case of tennis elbow from the extra reps I was doing.

This is the danger of taking fullerenes, that muscles are enhanced faster than tendons and ligaments--a problem steroid users also encounter. I've now injured myself twice since I began. A lower back injury from increasing the weights too fast on a back machine, and a tensor fasciae latae injury that still nags after three weeks. I jumped over a fallen tree while running on a bike trail. I felt a twinge but continued to run another few miles since I still had plenty of energy.


`

Edited by Turnbuckle, 22 July 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[tintinet]

I guess I'm lucky that I've noticed no marked improvement in my workouts, so I've been able to continue them uninjured!

[Metrodorus]

Hi Tinitinet - what is your dosage regime?
And yours, Turnbuckle?
Mine is around 30mg per day.

[tintinet]

4.5 mg/day in divided doses, lately sublingual.

[Metrodorus]

Ok, so there is approximately an order of magnitude difference between your dose and mine - which is between 30 and 40 mg/day also not taken in one go. Some days my dose is higher than this.

Edited by Metrodorus, 22 July 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Hi Tinitinet - what is your dosage regime?
And yours, Turnbuckle?
Mine is around 30mg per day.

I added it up a few days ago and it was 1/4 gram over 90 days, with more than half of that during the first ten days and only intermittent usage since then. That is, on average one tenth of what you're taking.

My more recent doses were 30% C70, but I haven't taken much of that so far.

How much builds up in the body might impact the results. Someone said it was eliminated at 20% in 5 days from rats, and so if it were half that for less-metabolically-active humans, more than half the first day's dose would still be present after a month. Though where it might be and what state it might be in is unknown.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 22 July 2012 - 03:02 PM.

[tintinet]

Ok, so there is approximately an order of magnitude difference between your dose and mine - which is between 30 and 40 mg/day also not taken in one go. Some days my dose is higher than this.

I'm taking pre-prepared C60 OO, so 30 to 40 mg/ day strikes me as quite costly, especially for something so speculative.

[Metrodorus]

I prepared my fullerene myself - with 5g from SES - it isn't that expensive
https://sesres.com/F...renesPrices.asp

Edited by Metrodorus, 22 July 2012 - 03:04 PM.

[tintinet]

I prepared my fullerene myself - with 5g from SES - it isn't that expensive

Seems like a wiser choice.

Perhaps I'll do the same soon, if I keep taking C60.

[Junk Master]

Dang 30-40 mg a day! I'm going to have to make a batch myself too.

What does the "mirror" test tell you about your body composition? Are you gaining weight?

Do you attribute your strength gains to enhanced mitochondria, or could there be some other hormonal mechanism, like increased receptor binding?

No injuries for me, but then I don't push myself with low reps anymore and am not trying to add mass.

[tintinet]

Hi Tinitinet - what is your dosage regime?
And yours, Turnbuckle?
Mine is around 30mg per day.

I added it up a few days ago and it was 1/4 gram over 90 days, with more than half of that during the first ten days and only intermittent usage since then. That is, on average one tenth of what you're taking.

My more recent doses were 30% C70, but I haven't taken much of that so far.

How much builds up in the body might impact the results. Someone said it was eliminated at 20% in 5 days from rats, and so if it were half that for less-metabolically-active humans, more than half the first day's dose would still be present after a month. Though where it might be and what state it might be in is unknown.

I must have missed discussion of C70.

[Turnbuckle]

Hi Tinitinet - what is your dosage regime?
And yours, Turnbuckle?
Mine is around 30mg per day.

I added it up a few days ago and it was 1/4 gram over 90 days, with more than half of that during the first ten days and only intermittent usage since then. That is, on average one tenth of what you're taking.

My more recent doses were 30% C70, but I haven't taken much of that so far.

How much builds up in the body might impact the results. Someone said it was eliminated at 20% in 5 days from rats, and so if it were half that for less-metabolically-active humans, more than half the first day's dose would still be present after a month. Though where it might be and what state it might be in is unknown.

I must have missed discussion of C70.

There was no discussion about C70 except I reported on the preparation of a C60/C70 extract solution and that it had no noticeable effects (no more than C60 after the attack dose three months ago, which lifted me to a new level of functioning).

But if the extract should prove to be at least as good as C60, consider the cost, which is $125 for 10 grams, or about 1.3 cents per milligram (once you buy the scale, magnetic stirrer, and filter). Even the 99.5% C60 cost is only twice that. So a dollar a day for 40 mg, and you really don't need that much, in my opinion. Nor, in my opinion, is this something to be taken continuously, at least not until the mechanism of action is nailed down. If it’s just an antioxidant, that might be fine, but if there are epigenetic effects, then giving the mitochondria time for selection processes to produce a healthier population would be important.

[Junk Master]

So if there are epigenetic effects, Turnbuckle, how would you recommend cycling it? Along the lines of the study, with an "attack dose," then let it clear? For how long?

Or an attack dose, then very small doses to take advantage of the antioxidant effects? Two week on and two weeks off?

[Turnbuckle]

So if there are epigenetic effects, Turnbuckle, how would you recommend cycling it? Along the lines of the study, with an "attack dose," then let it clear? For how long?

Or an attack dose, then very small doses to take advantage of the antioxidant effects? Two week on and two weeks off?

I can't give you anything but a guess. There are about a thousand mitochondria in the average cell, and they divide and fuse every few hours or days and are disassembled (mitophagy) every few days. If the cell is functioning as it should, good mitochondria should live longer than bad mitochondria, so that the population tends to be taken over by the good rather than the bad. The details of this process are poorly understood (especially by me), though I don't think you really need to understand it to conclude that you need to let several cycles go by so that some positive random change made to the epigenome would be magnified enough to keep them from being randomly undone by a subsequent treatment. So I'm presently doing two or three days on (5-10 mg/day), then a week or two off. And as I say, that is completely a guess, and it presumes that the residual C60 is only a minor influence. Even so, it's not that different from the rat paper where the rats got a healthy dose one day a week subsequent to the initial attack phase. And perhaps that was close to optimal by some happy accident.

And even if it turns out that the entire effect is by C60’s antioxidant character and there’s no epigenetic effect at all, this schedule can’t be that bad. After all, the rats did live 90% longer.

[Junk Master]

Thanks, Turnbuckle. Very well said.

BTW can anyone recommend a book or some reading on mitochondria for me? They certainly are fascinating little buggers.

[JohnD60]

@Junk Master, I recommend 'Power, Sex, Suicide..." by Nick Lane

How much builds up in the body might impact the results. Someone said it was eliminated at 20% in 5 days from rats, and so if it were half that for less-metabolically-active humans, more than half the first day's dose would still be present after a month. Though where it might be and what state it might be in is unknown.

IMO, how much the body retains is a very important thing to know. But I am skeptical that actual data exists. Please provide your source if you remember it.

[zorba990]

I've been quiet on the forums for a bit - on 25 June I injured myself in the gym ( I am a 5x a week gym bunny) as a result of dramatically increased ability to sustain my workout - which I attribute to the fullerene supplementation - getting a rather severe case of tennis elbow from the extra reps I was doing.

This is the danger of taking fullerenes, that muscles are enhanced faster than tendons and ligaments--a problem steroid users also encounter. I've now injured myself twice since I began. A lower back injury from increasing the weights too fast on a back machine, and a tensor fasciae latae injury that still nags after three weeks. I jumped over a fallen tree while running on a bike trail. I felt a twinge but continued to run another few miles since I still had plenty of energy.


`

Actually, where steroids are concerned, tendon damage is at least partially due to fact that steroids cause the body to make abnormal collagen.

Tendon injuries induced by exercise and anabolic steroids in experimental mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3610410


Organisation of collagen fibrils in tendon: changes induced by an anabolic steroid. I. Functional and ultrastructural studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2881396

[Metrodorus]

True for steroids - but the time frame was way too short here for this to be a reason. In my personal example, I've never used steroids, but have had tennis elbow before from weightlifting.

[zorba990]

True for steroids - but the time frame was way too short here for this to be a reason. In my personal example, I've never used steroids, but have had tennis elbow before from weightlifting.

Yes, I suspect that C60 users experiencing tendon or muscular strain issues is more from temporary adaptation issues. Just clarifying how steroids cause this issue, which may be by a different mechanism. I suspect anything that boosts strength quickly might cause these issues.

[Turnbuckle]

@Junk Master, I recommend 'Power, Sex, Suicide..." by Nick Lane

How much builds up in the body might impact the results. Someone said it was eliminated at 20% in 5 days from rats, and so if it were half that for less-metabolically-active humans, more than half the first day's dose would still be present after a month. Though where it might be and what state it might be in is unknown.

IMO, how much the body retains is a very important thing to know. But I am skeptical that actual data exists. Please provide your source if you remember it.

Turns out these were modified fullerenes, thus not directly comparable to the C60/OO--

The researchers made the fullerene material water soluble by putting hydroxy chemical groups on the surface of the metallofullerenes to make them resemble "stealth liposomes," which are materials invisible to the immune system.

The Rice chemists saw clearance of about 20 percent of the material over a five-day period in rats.

http://www.scienceda...90513065619.htm

By contrast, the original paper referred to a fairly rapid clearance of C60/OO--

Nevertheless, the weakness of organ concentrations notably at D8 after 7
daily successive administrations of C60 dissolved in olive oil clearly
shows that C60 molecules are eliminated from the organs in a few
hours after both oral and i.p. administrations.

Which is good. You don't want used up antioxidants hanging around.

[niner]

How much builds up in the body might impact the results. Someone said it was eliminated at 20% in 5 days from rats, and so if it were half that for less-metabolically-active humans, more than half the first day's dose would still be present after a month. Though where it might be and what state it might be in is unknown.

IMO, how much the body retains is a very important thing to know. But I am skeptical that actual data exists. Please provide your source if you remember it.

Turns out these were modified fullerenes, thus not directly comparable to the C60/OO--

By contrast, the original paper referred to a fairly rapid clearance of C60/OO--

Nevertheless, the weakness of organ concentrations notably at D8 after 7
daily successive administrations of C60 dissolved in olive oil clearly
shows that C60 molecules are eliminated from the organs in a few
hours after both oral and i.p. administrations.

Which is good. You don't want used up antioxidants hanging around.

Baati was reporting pharmacokinetic measurements there, so I suspect they were seeing free C60 decline rapidly. That's different from what might be in the mitochondrial membranes. It may take a very different methodology to get at that, like a 14C label.

My impression of the antioxidant nature of C60 is that it doesn't get 'used up', the way a chemical antioxidant like tocopherol or ascorbate might. C60 has a fairly low reduction potential, and electrons can flow on (and then off) without a lot of difficulty. In other words, C60 gets regenerated very easily, while more typical antioxidants need a more potent reducing agent to get recycled.

Honestly, I don't think anyone knows what the optimal dosing frequency is. The only touchstone we have at the moment is the dosing strategy that was used for Baati's rats, which might itself be far from optimal, but it worked out pretty well for the rats.

Edited by niner, 23 July 2012 - 12:47 AM.

[Junk Master]

But what can we extrapolate from that dosing frequency? What do we know about typical adaptive compensation? Why was that schedule picked in the first place?

BTW Thanks for the "Power, Sex, and Suicide..." recommendation. How can you resist a title like that? I just bought a copy.

[Metrodorus]

In the rat study, the determining factors in dosage administered would have been, (extrapolating from the literature)
a). The amount of fullerene that would dissolve in a given volume of oil.
b). The volume of oil that could be administered to the rats, without the oil dosage itself becoming an issue in the toxicity study. Rats dosed on high amounts of olive oil develop various pathologies.