304 replies to this topic

[Nate-2004]

With that update I'm just going to wait till more is known I think before I make or take anymore. There are way too many unknowns here.

Edited by Nate-2004, 01 September 2016 - 01:25 PM.

[stefan_001]

It would become much easier if the exact mechanism of action was understood. Then possibly a more controlled process could be used. Has there ever been done an analyses of what aducts are formed? If there are only a handfull then purified forms might be created.

Edited by stefan_001, 03 September 2016 - 08:26 AM.

[lost69]

i dont know if someone suggested this before:

 

since we dont know yet which vendors supply non-toxic C60OO can we use it on skin at night without dangers of toxicity until we have results of the tests?

it looks like c60 topically may give some results on skin if not exposed to sun light, what about electrical lights?

 

i should receive c60OO from Vaughter Wellness/c60antiaging by few days but i prefer to wait for tests results too before using the product orally

Edited by ste, 07 September 2016 - 01:08 PM.

[Empiricus]

i dont know if someone suggested this before:

 

since we dont know yet which vendors supply non-toxic C60OO can we use it on skin at night without dangers of toxicity until we have results of the tests?

it looks like c60 topically may give some results on skin if not exposed to sun light, what about electrical lights?

 

i should receive c60OO from Vaughter Wellness/c60antiaging by few days but i prefer to wait for tests results too before using the product orally

 

The reports on topical use don't make it sound worth the bother.  A more sure bet would be to buy fresh olive oil and apply that. 

[Kalliste]

There must be FAR fewer orders of C60 now, that means you are more likely to receive old oil and we know what that implies. Stick with MitoQ, they got a cream too.

[lost69]

There must be FAR fewer orders of C60 now, that means you are more likely to receive old oil and we know what that implies. Stick with MitoQ, they got a cream too.

 

already using mitoQ and mitoQ cream

 

just looking for a way to make use of C60 from VW with the least damage/toxicity

[platypus]

Looks like Vaughter has responded in the comments-section of this page: 

 

http://c60antiaging....uction-process/

 

I'm happy to hear that her oil is protected from light during production. She also raises what seem like legitimate concerns about the study by Ichor. 

[Nate-2004]

Looks like Vaughter has responded in the comments-section of this page: 

 

http://c60antiaging....uction-process/

 

I'm happy to hear that her oil is protected from light during production. She also raises what seem like legitimate concerns about the study by Ichor. 

 

Not really, she just concocts conspiracy theories and throws them at Ichor, citing motives, etc. I didn't see a single legitimate concern and of course Ichor hasn't published it yet, it's not over and the study was interrupted by problems with the oil. 

 

As much as I hate the FDA (for reasons that are not conspiracy related or to do with anything she says), I'd be wary of buying anything from this person, much less consuming it. 

 

I mean, we all hope this stuff works, but chances are the whole thing was a fluke.  I would not spend anymore money on it till we have answers in a couple of years.

Edited by Nate-2004, 08 September 2016 - 02:06 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

...chances are the whole thing was a fluke. 

 

 

I think that highly unlikely as the age regression I've experienced over the past four years is quite impressive. And one only has to look at the C60 poll to see that most people are responding favorably to it, with only 1 person in 99 saying they would no longer use it--either because it didn't work or they got negative results. And that's with many taking C60 preparations that may be defective. 

[Captain Obvious]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the response to Ichor study as just a conspiracy theory.

The study hasn't been peer-reviewed or replicated and it's probable that Ichor has a financial interest in C60 so they are not an objective source.

[Empiricus]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the response to Ichor study as just a conspiracy theory.

The study hasn't been peer-reviewed or replicated and it's probable that Ichor has a financial interest in C60 so they are not an objective source.

 

Captain Obvious, you (of all people) must surely recognize that those are obvious points. Patently obvious points!  Nothing unknown was uncovered by the respondent.  Therefore, the accusatory tone of the response did not appear to be justified by its content. 

Edited by Empiricus, 08 September 2016 - 07:04 PM.

[mikey]

I heard back from Kmoody and asked if i could quote his reply on this forum.  This is what he said:

 

"Hello Jean,

 

I do not have specific recommendations at this time, other than in our hands, freshly made product seems fine and light exposure appears to create a toxic by-product. We do not have sufficient data for shelf life / stability to comment on how long it stays stable in the dark or when light exposed. We also have not done toxicity testing to determine how much of the toxic product must be consumed to be damaging. Purifying the toxic compound has been a little tricky since we are focusing in other areas, and since its chemical properties closely mirror those of C60oo.

 

What I can say that 7/8 online vendors had unstable product containing what we believe are toxic by-products. I would personally not take C60oo until further work is done. If you do want to take some, at the very least I would recommend only using fresh batches.

 

We are planning to put together a paper with these and similar findings for publication soon.

 

 

That should help simplify things for everyone and provide some metrics for quality control of product."

 

Please tell us which online vendor was ok.

[samstersam]

 

 

 

What I can say that 7/8 online vendors had unstable product containing what we believe are toxic by-products. I would personally not take C60oo until further work is done. If you do want to take some, at the very least I would recommend only using fresh batches.

 

 

 

Please tell us which online vendor was ok.

 

 

Yes, as much as I dislike the tone of Vaughter's response to Kmoody, I am wary of his original statements too. He mentions 7/8 are unstable products but doesn't mention who the good one is. It seems like unnecessary drama.

[platypus]

SV has said she has Asperger's which might have something to do with her tone when being attacked. 

[Kalliste]

When I was on the VW C60 oil I was able to wake up obscenely early. At the time I just figured I had managed to turn my circadian clock a bit, perhaps from lifestyle, perhaps because I had turned 30 years old at the time. But in retrospect it must have been related to that C60, since stopping that I have never been able to rise so early in the morning as I was back then. Not even with MitoQ.

 

Here's to hoping that Kmoody will soon publish some more results, and hopefully finding some simple, cheap, DIY way of creating stable C60.

[Empiricus]

 

As I described here, after being off c60 for 2 weeks, I took 125-250 mg daily of NR and little else for 6 days and felt incredibly alert and energetic and needed hardly any sleep. I was absolutely astounded. On the whole, the positive results I was getting met or exceeded the most positive reports I've seen reported for NR at such low doses over such a short time. I experienced some foot pain, however.

 

I discontinued NR on the 6th day and evening took PQQ that evening. Next morning I took 2mg of C60.  On the evening of the 9th day I took about 60 mg of NR sublingually.  Woke up with sore feet.  From day 10 to 14, I took 125-250 mg of NR.  The foot pain issue worsened considerably and all the positive benefits I had experienced the previous week were greatly diminished, at times hardly perceptible. On evening of day 14, I took PQQ before a run in the evening. On morning of day 15 I felt agitated and couldn't focus.

 

I suspect the c60 may have had something to do with the much diminished effects of NR I experienced in week 2. 

 

There's also the foot pain issue.  Several people at Longecity have reported foot pain on NR (though at much higher doses) yet when I search Amazon reviews, I can't find one report of this symptom. Perhaps the people reporting feet pain on NR are all taking c60...

 

It's apparent by the foot pain that I've reached a dead end with NR.  My plan is to stay away from c60 for a few weeks and then retry the NR and see.  

 

 

Following is a one month follow-up on the above report.  For the better part of the past month, I discontinued all the above mentioned supplements, and all other health supplements.  I have also avoided consuming any kind of olive product whatsoever. 

 

The pain on the soles of my feet (the pain brought on by the NR) has persisted.  Pain in the lower back area (identical to the pain associated with certain batches of c60) has also persisted.  Both kinds of pain tend to occur at the same time. Around the middle of the day, the pain has sometimes been accompanied by mild nausea.  The pain is worse in the mornings, better in the evenings.  The condition seems to be improving slowly.  I have begun experimenting to see if whether any supplements can speed-up recovery.  

 

I have come up with 4 hypothesis as to what might have caused the bad reaction:  

 

1. I consumed NR too soon after c60.  Perhaps waiting 48 hours proved not to be enough enough time.  It makes sense that lots of c60 would still be active, so it maybe I should have waited a week or longer.  

 

2. Something I forgot to mention in the above report: On Day 14 I also took 1200 mg of NAC with the PQQ.  Maybe NAC reacts with PQQ and/or residual NR and/or residual c60. I should mention that I have taken lots of NAC in the past for months at a time and in higher doses than 1200 mg and yet never experience bad reactions to it. 

 

3. Around Day 7, when I took 2 mg of c60, and after, I was consuming large amounts of (probably) low-quality (almost certainly) light-exposed olive oil on salads.  As much as a 1/3 cup/day.  I was also consuming a lot of olives. Maybe that low-quality oil became toxic in the presence of the c60.  Or maybe I'm experiencing a slow recovering from a new allergy to olive polyphenols.

 

4. My sunlight exposure was somewhat higher than usual, but not what I would consider excessive.   

 

It's rather mysterious. The doses I was taking of all the supplements in question were relatively low. I had taken all of them in larger quantities before, none were from new bottles. Nevertheless,  I believe the possibility that the symptoms are unrelated in some way to some combination of c60, NR, PQQ, olive oil, or NAC is extremely remote on account of the fact the symptoms mimic previous and distinctive pains following consumption of NR and c60 (particularly when I took it in combination with added olive polyphenols).   

 

 

Time for an update.

 

It's been over 2 months since I took NR for only 2 weeks.  At that time I observed both spectacularly positive and decidedly negative results from very conservative doses.  In the weeks since, the pain on the sole of my feet triggered by NR has persisted.  In mid-Aug I took an additional 25 mg of NR on two occasions and both times the foot pain got worse.

 

Cherry capsules and raw cherries seem to help a bit. So I suspect it's like niacin-onset gout.  I'm surprised it has proven so persistent though.  I also tried baking soda, but that seemed to make the pain worse.  

 

My experience with gout -- every few years I get it in my big toe -- is that it goes away after a week, but doesn't continue for months.  This pain in the arches of my feet -- it's a gout attack I assume -- triggered by NR doesn't seem go away very quickly when you discontinue the NR!! 

 

The lower back pain -- onset coincided with my last dose of c60 nine weeks ago (see above) -- has also persisted.  As it's not the first time I've had back pain persist for weeks following an intake of c60, it's the NR-triggered long-enduring soles-of-my-feet pain that I find most surprising. 

Edited by Empiricus, 12 September 2016 - 08:04 AM.

[lost69]

i started c60 from carbon60olivoil.com without stopping NR, just lowered dose from 500mg daily to 300mg daily.how can you guess NR and c60 are not ok together?

you get sides or just feel even better on c60 alone?

 

it s been just 5 days of c60 4ml daily and from second day i felt a huge difference, i feel very very light no matter what efforts i do or how little i sleep.it s about 2 weeks that i am not swimming or going to gym so i cannot say yet how it enhances exercise

 

the only thing i noticed is no extra breath needed when climbing 3 floors of stairs which were tiring before when i was on NR only.

i can go to bed very very late and sleep quality is very very good

 

thinking to try higher dose at 7ml like mikey hoping for improvement on some sagging below eyes/cheekbones and eye bags which worsened a lot after a sudden weight loss of 4-5kg in july 

 

i also take mitoq,omega3,pterostilbene, liposomal resveratrol,vit d3, magnesium,TA65, epimedium,vit A from liver fish oils, curcumin,cocoa, cinnamon,ashwagandha and few other supp

Edited by ste, 23 September 2016 - 12:59 PM.

[stefan_001]

 

 

As I described here, after being off c60 for 2 weeks, I took 125-250 mg daily of NR and little else for 6 days and felt incredibly alert and energetic and needed hardly any sleep. I was absolutely astounded. On the whole, the positive results I was getting met or exceeded the most positive reports I've seen reported for NR at such low doses over such a short time. I experienced some foot pain, however.

 

I discontinued NR on the 6th day and evening took PQQ that evening. Next morning I took 2mg of C60.  On the evening of the 9th day I took about 60 mg of NR sublingually.  Woke up with sore feet.  From day 10 to 14, I took 125-250 mg of NR.  The foot pain issue worsened considerably and all the positive benefits I had experienced the previous week were greatly diminished, at times hardly perceptible. On evening of day 14, I took PQQ before a run in the evening. On morning of day 15 I felt agitated and couldn't focus.

 

I suspect the c60 may have had something to do with the much diminished effects of NR I experienced in week 2. 

 

There's also the foot pain issue.  Several people at Longecity have reported foot pain on NR (though at much higher doses) yet when I search Amazon reviews, I can't find one report of this symptom. Perhaps the people reporting feet pain on NR are all taking c60...

 

It's apparent by the foot pain that I've reached a dead end with NR.  My plan is to stay away from c60 for a few weeks and then retry the NR and see.  

 

 

Following is a one month follow-up on the above report.  For the better part of the past month, I discontinued all the above mentioned supplements, and all other health supplements.  I have also avoided consuming any kind of olive product whatsoever. 

 

The pain on the soles of my feet (the pain brought on by the NR) has persisted.  Pain in the lower back area (identical to the pain associated with certain batches of c60) has also persisted.  Both kinds of pain tend to occur at the same time. Around the middle of the day, the pain has sometimes been accompanied by mild nausea.  The pain is worse in the mornings, better in the evenings.  The condition seems to be improving slowly.  I have begun experimenting to see if whether any supplements can speed-up recovery.  

 

I have come up with 4 hypothesis as to what might have caused the bad reaction:  

 

1. I consumed NR too soon after c60.  Perhaps waiting 48 hours proved not to be enough enough time.  It makes sense that lots of c60 would still be active, so it maybe I should have waited a week or longer.  

 

2. Something I forgot to mention in the above report: On Day 14 I also took 1200 mg of NAC with the PQQ.  Maybe NAC reacts with PQQ and/or residual NR and/or residual c60. I should mention that I have taken lots of NAC in the past for months at a time and in higher doses than 1200 mg and yet never experience bad reactions to it. 

 

3. Around Day 7, when I took 2 mg of c60, and after, I was consuming large amounts of (probably) low-quality (almost certainly) light-exposed olive oil on salads.  As much as a 1/3 cup/day.  I was also consuming a lot of olives. Maybe that low-quality oil became toxic in the presence of the c60.  Or maybe I'm experiencing a slow recovering from a new allergy to olive polyphenols.

 

4. My sunlight exposure was somewhat higher than usual, but not what I would consider excessive.   

 

It's rather mysterious. The doses I was taking of all the supplements in question were relatively low. I had taken all of them in larger quantities before, none were from new bottles. Nevertheless,  I believe the possibility that the symptoms are unrelated in some way to some combination of c60, NR, PQQ, olive oil, or NAC is extremely remote on account of the fact the symptoms mimic previous and distinctive pains following consumption of NR and c60 (particularly when I took it in combination with added olive polyphenols).   

 

 

Time for an update.

 

It's been over 2 months since I took NR for only 2 weeks.  At that time I observed both spectacularly positive and decidedly negative results from very conservative doses.  In the weeks since, the pain on the sole of my feet triggered by NR has persisted.  In mid-Aug I took an additional 25 mg of NR on two occasions and both times the foot pain got worse.

 

Cherry capsules and raw cherries seem to help a bit. So I suspect it's like niacin-onset gout.  I'm surprised it has proven so persistent though.  I also tried baking soda, but that seemed to make the pain worse.  

 

My experience with gout -- every few years I get it in my big toe -- is that it goes away after a week, but doesn't continue for months.  This pain in the arches of my feet -- it's a gout attack I assume -- triggered by NR doesn't seem go away very quickly when you discontinue the NR!! 

 

The lower back pain -- onset coincided with my last dose of c60 nine weeks ago (see above) -- has also persisted.  As it's not the first time I've had back pain persist for weeks following an intake of c60, it's the NR-triggered long-enduring soles-of-my-feet pain that I find most surprising. 

 

Sometimes correlations can be misleading. I would consider using for 2 months straight and see how the soles behave as opposed to the  short intermittent trying 

Edited by stefan_001, 23 September 2016 - 09:15 PM.

[Nate-2004]

I agree Stefan.

 

I also still don't understand the connection people are drawing between C60 and NR.

Edited by Nate-2004, 23 September 2016 - 09:14 PM.

[Xerxes]

I have been taking C60-OO sporadically over the past 2-3 years (purchased from VW). I believe I have likely consumed anywhere from 2-4 bottles in total. The reason for my uncertainty is that I order 4-6 bottles at a time for my grandparents (who take it weekly) - typically I take a bottle for myself when my then-current bottle has finished. Our C60 is kept out of direct sunlight. 

 

Prior to spring 2015, I don't think I had taken more than a bottle in total - so my use *was* rare. However, from then onwards, I would take it whenever I was particularly stressed and running on little sleep - in hopes of mitigating the oxidative stress I was inevitably subjecting my body to. Each dose was that of a full tablespoon/dessert spoon (~10 mg/~15 mg). 

 

Effects (both + & -) I have noticed during my time taking C60:

 

• I was far better able to function whilst sleep deprived. Just to note, I didn't experience anything akin to when taking a stimulant; the best way I can describe it is this: If I had slept for 2 hours, it felt like 4-5. 
• Every time I took it, the blood circulation in my hands was different for about 3 days. The colour of the skin was not as warm-toned - adopting a slight purple hue - and the colour of my veins stood out a lot more. I am olive/Mediterranean coloured. 
• Brain fog (not every time - this occurred around 3 times within hours of taking a dose). During these episodes of brain fog, I'd get these very strange sensations lasting a few seconds inside my head that I can only describe as a "whoooosh" - like invisible waves going through my brain. The brain fog took about half a week to go away, each time.
• Anytime I'd be getting little sleep for more than 2 weeks at a time, C60 would make me sleep as if I was in a coma! 14 - 16 hours of sleep at a time, only to awake feeling very groggy, which would remain that way for the rest day. This wasn't necessarily bad, however; I soon realised that after 2-3 'binge-sleeps' close to each other, I'd be completely restored. I read a similar account on this forum a while back, with a similar experience.

 

 

Now to the main reason for my posting.

 

To the shock of my doctor due to my age (and every doctor I have seen since) I had a mild case of shingles two months ago. A lymph node in my neck became slightly enlarged 1 month ago; the case of shingles had cleared up by then. Each following week, it has become more and more obvious to the touch, though only visible when elongating my neck. After not taking C60 all summer, I took ~8 mg two weeks ago. The node has since grown rapidly - to the size of a golf ball.

 

I have had a series of blood tests, and currently await surgery to remove the node. It's suspected to be a lymphoma - nothing can be said for certain until it has been biopsied, though. My doctor also said the shingles could have been a result of a weakened immune system caused from the lymphoma, if it is that. I have been away from the forum for a long while - it was only today that I read the thread regarding an increase in tumour growth with C60. As you can imagine, this has alarmed me. If it is the case that I do indeed have lymphoma, I don't know what it would mean for my grandparents - C60 has been nothing short of a miracle for them. By the way, I know that even if I do have it, no one will ever be able to say for certain if the C60 caused it (or made it worse) or not, but I *feel* it would be too much of a coincidence if I do. I'd like to add, I am not obese, not a smoker, not elderly; in fact quite the opposite: I'm 19. 

 

I will update with the outcome of the biopsy in due course.

 

[PerfectSeek]

Xerxes that is quite scary. Lends credence to the results found by Ichor's lab. Despite the gains I get from c60 in terms of my cfs, I may need to discontinue use.

Edited by PerfectSeek, 25 September 2016 - 10:04 PM.

[Captain Obvious]

Some obvious facts:

a) you have to be crazy to supplement with xenobiotocs like C60 when you are 19.

b) lymphomas are diagnosed in patients of all ages

c) we don't know if it's lymphoma

[Turnbuckle]

Some obvious facts:

a) you have to be crazy to supplement with xenobiotocs like C60 when you are 19.

b) lymphomas are diagnosed in patients of all ages

c) we don't know if it's lymphoma

 

I agree, and in addition, shingles is becoming more common in young people where the chicken pox vaccine has been used--

 

according to studies conducted in the 1960s by the British GP and epidemiologist Robert Edgar Hope-Simpson, those who are repeatedly exposed to chicken pox—health care workers, say, and families with young children—are less prone to a reactivation of the virus. Greater exposure actually lessens the risk of shingles. It follows, McGeer says, that the immune systems of young adults who didn’t get the varicella vaccine won’t have that extra boosting that would help prevent shingles—the younger, vaccinated generation won’t provide any exposure. So adults in their 20s and 30s have two strikes against them: they’ve had the virus, so it can be reactivated, and they haven’t had the exposure that would heighten their immunity. “They are going to have a problem,” concludes McGeer.

http://www.macleans....ration-at-risk/

 

[jeanlzt11]

Xerxes, I'm  really hoping you don't have it.  Hodgkin disease is considered one of the most curable forms of cancer; it can occur at all ages and is most common in early adulthood,ages 15 to 40, especially in a person’s 20s.  Please keep us informed, I am wishing you well.

 

Edited by jeanlzt, 26 September 2016 - 12:41 AM.

[IP3]

 I suffered from pressure headaches from few months,. C60 make my headache and 3 times worse. Finaly i have been diagnosed with glaucoma, After 2 days on lumigan i was pressure-free.

So i have theory that C60 may increase intraoccular pressure in those who are predisposed.. If you have those nasty side effects like headache you should check your IOP.

 

 

Edited by IP3, 27 September 2016 - 10:15 AM.

[aribadabar]

 

 

 I can only describe as a "whoooosh"

 

Wow, I thought it is just me. I get the whooosh too occasionally. Don't know if it is related to C60 or not, though, as I take a number of other supps, many on a daily basis.

 

I take 1 tablespoon( ~15ml) of homemade C60 (0.8mg/ml) weekly for ~2 years now. In the first few weeks, I  have experienced improved smell shortly after ingestion of even 5ml C60oo and then again after I upped the dose to 15ml but after a few weeks the smelling boost was undetectable upon repeated dosing. I may have reached some max level which cannot be further improved.

 

The very rare sole and somewhat frequent lumbar pain I also experience are unlikely to be caused C60oo IMHO. As niner said, I attribute it to the fact that I am simply alive. 

Edited by aribadabar, 29 September 2016 - 03:21 AM.

[IP3]

My lumbar back pain gone month after c60 withdrawn.

[lost69]

i am so amazed of c60 results that i want to take it with me when i travel because i noticed i lose its effects after 3-4days but i wonder: can X-rays at airport when you take flights change C60 chemistry?

[tintinet]

i am so amazed of c60 results that i want to take it with me when i travel because i noticed i lose its effects after 3-4days but i wonder: can X-rays at airport when you take flights change C60 chemistry?

Likely you get more radiation in flight at high altitudes:



"measurements made on two scanners in active use at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX), as well as seven other scanners not in active use at the time of measurement, found that full-body scanners deliver a radiation dose equivalent to what a standard man receives every 1.8 minutes on the ground, or every 12 seconds during an airplane flight."

https://www.scienced...30627151642.htm

Edited by tintinet, 24 October 2016 - 02:15 PM.

[lost69]

 

i am so amazed of c60 results that i want to take it with me when i travel because i noticed i lose its effects after 3-4days but i wonder: can X-rays at airport when you take flights change C60 chemistry?

Likely you get more radiation in flight at high altitudes:



"measurements made on two scanners in active use at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX), as well as seven other scanners not in active use at the time of measurement, found that full-body scanners deliver a radiation dose equivalent to what a standard man receives every 1.8 minutes on the ground, or every 12 seconds during an airplane flight."

https://www.scienced...30627151642.htm

 

 

sorry i just meant changes of C60 in bottle but if radiation is so low i guess it makes no changes to c60 compounds in the bottle

thanks