69 replies to this topic

[OpenStrife]

Hi, I've adopted a certain Mega Dosing regime with Piracetam...4g every 2 hours, and Pramiracetam, 500mg 3x aday. With various other supplements.

I am doing this with daily mental training(Samatha and Vipassana Meditation), to boost the speed of my progress, meditating 4-10 hours aday. So please note that I am aware of the of the potential Mania and other extreme side effects associated with large doses of Piracetam. If you wish to know more about my experiences, you may ask me questions on my blog, and see my notes about the day and how my progress is coming along.

The meditations I will be doing are designed to rapidly train the mind to operate at higher energy levels. My goal is to attain even higher mental energy processing power than Piracetam through meditation, with the aid of Piracetam, and sustain these states of mind while weening myself off Piracetam(when I have reached these states), allowing me to stay in these super highly functioning states of mind off Piracetam.

Getting to these states of mind is easily possible with enough meditation practice. Though, Piracetam will enable me to already enter those states of mind(which would take a normal meditator years of practice to sustain). Essentially allowing me to make months of meditation progress per day. The past few days have tested successfully. I will continue to see how it goes. Meditation is all about training the mind, and controlling the brain and it's chemistry with conscious thought and intention.


Piracetam clearly has much power, if it can induce mania in a person(Isochroma), this does not mean that at these doses it is bad. It is my belief that with great power must come great control/responsibility, or bad things can come out of it(uncontrollable/depressive mania). On the other hand, if one were to mentally train him/herself with such power, one could progress at incredibly faster rates than other people.

Enjoy!

Thanks!

http://nootropic.tumblr.com/

Edited by OpenStrife, 12 July 2012 - 10:35 PM.

[protoject]

How exactly are you measuring your meditation process and the progress you're making? I'm not trying to be a downer but it all seems overboard to me.

[OpenStrife]

That is a difficult question to answer to somebody who has not meditated extensively before.

I have been meditating for 4-6 years, on and off, but in the past few months, I have become very serious about my meditation practice. Meditation in short, makes you very familiar with your bodily and mental processes. You learn a lot about how your body responds in very subtle ways, and this awareness can lead you to developing control over autonomic functions. Over the years I have gained a few abilities, one of the most common among advanced meditators is the ability to willfully control heart rate and blood pressure just by focusing on it....aka a normally autonomic function.

I have been meditating so long that I can easily notice when new states of conscious awareness have been achieved, like the various Jhanic absorbtion states. I am also very aware of how any substance I put in my body effects me. I have a very good mental state memory as a result of my practice. Most people can't remember how their minds functioned a week ago, let alone a month ago. But me, I am very keen to the fine processing details of my mind, how quickly it can process information, how slow it is, etc. In other words, I have trained myself to be highly aware of my state of mind.

Piracetam alone will not put anyone in these advanced jhanic states, these states are the result of a sustained behavior of concentration. In these states your brain rapidly heals and develops. These states can essentially be cultivated and increased in power and durability, just as somebody learning a new skill. The more they practice it, the easier it is.

My experiment, is basically using Mega Doses of piracetam as a sort of mental catalyst to more easily enter these supreme states of concentration and focus. Once these states have been accessed, the more I access them, the easier it will be to enter them. Once I have spent some time in each state and cultivated them to some extend, piracetam will no longer be needed to easily enter these states, and this is my goal. Basically once I have reached a desired state of mind, I will decrease my next days Piracetam dose, and keep meditating until I can re-enter that state at the same caliber as the previous day. Then once I have matched the caliber of the previous day, I will lower the dose even more, and repeat, etc.

Piracetam essentially will provide the fuel needed to get in these states with ease, a massive amount of fuel. But as my brain becomes used to these states of focus and conscious awareness, it will require less 'fuel', so to speak, to get to them and enter them. Thus, eleminating the need for Piracetam entirely. It's just like learning a new skill. Sure you could learn calculus while very tired... but if you are in a peak state of mind, you will learn much faster and easier. As a result later down the line, assuming you practice, you will be able to do calculus at the same level you were able to do it when you were using a boost the first time, except this time you can easily do it while sluggish/without the boost.

These states of mind can obviously be developed with practice without the use of any supplements, they are heavily documented in the east, but it would take much longer. Meditations inherent nature is the healing and development of the brain. It is a tool. Whatever you meditate on, your brain will constantly enhance that faculty. The body also heals and replenishes neurotransmitters very rapidly in meditation. Many buddhist monks use 'compassion' as a meditation object, what they are doing is essentially enhancing their ability to feel compassion to endless levels. Meditation is a tool, it can be compared to a push up for the brain. Just like a Savant who has immense mathematical or artistic abilities, such abilities can also be built through meditation, WITHOUT even actively practicing the ability.




As far as my blog goes, I am more so blogging my state of minds with such massive Piracetam doses in sync with my meditation. I never truly intended to blog my meditation progress in depth, other than saying if I am progress or not. It is just something I know. I can't really document my meditation progress in a way other people could understand, unless I had something like an EEG machine to monitor my brain activity. Other than that, describing my meditations progress to people is like trying to describe a taste to a person who has never tasted the food which I am describing.

Edited by OpenStrife, 13 July 2012 - 02:41 AM.

[victortsoi]

Would you describe pramiracetam as qualitatively the same as piracetam, but requiring a far lower dose to achieve effects? It seems that prami for me is raw brain power/logic and verbal enhancement, while piracetam is mostly mood enhancing/mental clarity with some increase in verbal fluency. When stacked, verbal fluidity seems even more improved while some of the blandness of prami's mood killing effects are reduced.

[OpenStrife]

Would you describe pramiracetam as qualitatively the same as piracetam, but requiring a far lower dose to achieve effects? It seems that prami for me is raw brain power/logic and verbal enhancement, while piracetam is mostly mood enhancing/mental clarity with some increase in verbal fluency. When stacked, verbal fluidity seems even more improved while some of the blandness of prami's mood killing effects are reduced.

The 2 are almost completely different.

I actually did not derive any kind of verbal increase from either of them. But my logic skills increased more on Piracetam that Pramiracetam.

People need to not describe these substances as 'mood boosting' or 'logic boosting'. Certain parts of peoples brains rely on different neurotransmitter levels for certain faculties to work well. From my experience, Pramiracetam almost exclusively boost Acetylcholine levels, and this is not something you feel after a while, but is something you experience in the process of doing.

As far as Piracetam, the only reason I believe people feel it is because ONE of it's effect are that it can increase glutamate levels in the brain, the excitory neuron. Also Piracetam requiring larger doses, takes longer to clear out of the body, allowing the effect to build more than lower doses of Pramiracetam.

I personally would not say Piracetam is 'mood' boosting. The best way I would describe it is to say that it boost my fuel, my drive to go - which is the exact effect of boosted glutamate levels. Maybe it's because I'm slightly sociopathic and I have heavy control over most of the emotions and actions that I express as a result of meditating for so much throughout my life....

If Piracetam were to be described in a very vague sense, you could say it is mood boosting. But mood boosting is a very vague term. For example, you could have 30 different people who say they feel 'depressed' or 'tired', yet the causes of those feelings could be millions of different things from person to person.

When it comes to me, I say Piracetam gives me more fuel, more drive to do what I want to do, more will power if you will. I can express the emotions I want to express. Though, there has also been times on Piracetam where I have felt not so energized, yet still felt other parts of its boosts going on in my brain. Which is one of the reasons I would never label it as a 'mood' booster. That is too much of a generalization of it's function.

[victortsoi]

do you stack your racetams? I stack prami, oxi, and pira together a lot. What do you think? Thank you for such an interesting log.

[Junk Master]

You need pics on your blog. Also, less laundry list and more high points. Drop the nonsense about secrets that need to be guarded and give us some non-manic stream of consciousness so we can judge your mental states over the days.

It's kind of fun predicting when you'll get bored, or go crazy.

[OpenStrife]

You need pics on your blog. Also, less laundry list and more high points. Drop the nonsense about secrets that need to be guarded and give us some non-manic stream of consciousness so we can judge your mental states over the days.

It's kind of fun predicting when you'll get bored, or go crazy.

Your points have been addressed in this post ...

.........

I stack Piracetam, 4g every 2 hours.
And 500mg Pramiracetam 3 times aday, 2 hours apart, sometime in the morning.

I also take a range of other things, but if you look at my blog you could see them all.


As I meditate with all these Racetams I begin to have less to say to people. Not because there is less for me to think of, on the contrary... my ideas and thoughts have become so profound, powerful, and intellectual, that I feel many of them are far to valuable to speak to other people. Common talk to me has become almost a waste of time. I have even considered stopping the blog, or keeping it private. Mainly because all of the profound things I experience by combining meditation with my stack is giving me tremendous progress and abilities.

Just to give you a hint, in the past 2 days alone, I have already cultivated, over 6 perfect scenarios for me to live on my own and easily make in excess of $300,000 a year, while barley leaving my house. This is what I mean by profound, significant. My thoughts are becoming super effective.

I feel if I were not meditating I would experience more mania than anything... but the focusing power of meditation with the stack is giving me so much more power. Right now I'm have second thoughts about all of this and am seriously considering having all of my post deleted and keeping my progress journal private. Perhaps that's a tad bit over the top, but the more I meditate and use this stack, the more power I realize I am gaining mentally, and the more I am capable of achieving... I feel like I am spilling gold right now. These post may be removed within the next week if my mind changes, so try to understand the significance of what I am saying.

The main reason I want to remove all of what I have recorded thus far, as the days progress, is primarily because of a certain selfishness. I am beginning to realize the true reality that if everyone experienced what I experienced and the major thoughts and innovative ideas that i'm having, the current societal structure could crumble. These may sound like the ramblings of a mad man/isochroma, but it is reasonable to see it that way.

I'm sure reading this would give you a much different idea than if you directly witnessed the achievements happening in real time directly due to Piracetam w/ Meditation.

The difference between Mania and Genius, is accomplishments.




It is commonly known throughout the Yogic and Meditative community that many people who have made great mental accomplishments and attained various Siddhis, often are very secretive of their abilities because they know it is not something the average person should know unless they are willing to experience it themselves..... I am beginning to understand this method of thought.

The states of mind I am experiencing now are what every serious mediator wishes to achieve, in years of practice. Perfect music flows through my head, which in of itself, is considered to be a Siddhi attainment, a very high cognitive ability. In my years of meditative practice, this is what I have wished to experience... and every day is comparable to months of my previous meditative practice.

Edited by OpenStrife, 17 July 2012 - 12:27 AM.

[OpenStrife]

Also with my meditating I am slowly learning how to control this intense energy... so after a while you may no longer see extremely long post from me that are common in high-dose piracetam users. They say all smart people at some point need to learn how to act normal... or else everyone will view them as crazy... which seems is what happened to isochroma.... and will soon be how everyone views me if I don't learn to control my post length & the information that I expose

Edited by OpenStrife, 17 July 2012 - 12:59 AM.

[Junk Master]

I like your spirit. I'll be following the blog, even though you still have a way to go before I can compare your writing style to isochroma, master of the manic rant that he was.

[OpenStrife]

Oh believe me... the complex metaphors that filled Isochroma's writings are much in my head, I just don't really post them as I feel they are somewhat useless in an information based conversation.... unless I wanted to fill your head with pretty images. That creative aspect is very much common in my mind and has been a side effect of my meditation for the past few years, so it doesn't really stand out to me as a WOW sort of ability that I should express constantly... as it would to somebody who has never experienced creative prowess like that.

I do creative work for a living, so I'm sure you can guess how Piracetam has effected that .

Edited by OpenStrife, 17 July 2012 - 02:03 AM.

[Junk Master]

Oh, I can do more than imagine. I mega-dose Piracetam with C60/OO.

I really do need to meditate though, where would you recommend I start? I've only done simple relaxation stuff, sports visualization, sat zazen once.

Only do 15 minutes twice a week right now.

[OpenStrife]

I can't really give you advice as I'm not a meditation teacher nor a master, I learn every time I sit down and meditate.

The type of meditation I do is Samatha/Concentration on the breath. To put it simply, just sit, breath with a relative slowness/smoothness, while focusing your attention on your breath. Do not give in to any distractions. You'll know your meditations are starting to deepen when the amount of thoughts telling you to 'get up' or go check your email, or do something along those lines increase. You can view this as a decrease in the threshold between the subconscious and conscious mind. The longer you can ignore the ever increasing distracting thoughts, and keep bringing your attention back to your breath, the more your concentration will deepen and the thoughts will begin to decrease in frequency.

[zorba990]

I can't really give you advice as I'm not a meditation teacher nor a master, I learn every time I sit down and meditate.

The type of meditation I do is Samatha/Concentration on the breath. To put it simply, just sit, breath with a relative slowness/smoothness, while focusing your attention on your breath. Do not give in to any distractions. You'll know your meditations are starting to deepen when the amount of thoughts telling you to 'get up' or go check your email, or do something along those lines increase. You can view this as a decrease in the threshold between the subconscious and conscious mind. The longer you can ignore the ever increasing distracting thoughts, and keep bringing your attention back to your breath, the more your concentration will deepen and the thoughts will begin to decrease in frequency.

Have you looked into DMT?

[OpenStrife]

I can't really give you advice as I'm not a meditation teacher nor a master, I learn every time I sit down and meditate.

The type of meditation I do is Samatha/Concentration on the breath. To put it simply, just sit, breath with a relative slowness/smoothness, while focusing your attention on your breath. Do not give in to any distractions. You'll know your meditations are starting to deepen when the amount of thoughts telling you to 'get up' or go check your email, or do something along those lines increase. You can view this as a decrease in the threshold between the subconscious and conscious mind. The longer you can ignore the ever increasing distracting thoughts, and keep bringing your attention back to your breath, the more your concentration will deepen and the thoughts will begin to decrease in frequency.

Have you looked into DMT?

I've smoked DMT numerous times

[OpenStrife]

I've come to the conclusion that I need to be taking more Choline Bitartate... previously I was getting 2g aday(aprox 1g choline) and I would still have headaches throughout the day, and my sleep would be very poor and my sleep cycles would be garbage, 2 signs of very low levels of choline. My headaches also go away after I take some choline, so that is another indicator that I need more choline.

Either way, last night, my sleep was horrible. I woke up after 4 hours of sleep, feeling great, only to feel drunk and needing a lot of sleep after 2-3 hours and eating. Went back to sleep for 6 more hours and I didn't feel any more rested.

I've had the theory that Piracetam is keeping my hyper and awake, but that doesn't make sense because a lot of Piracetam users report extreme ease in falling asleep after being on Piracetam. My primary suspicion is low choline/acetylcholine levels because that would explain all of the problems from the headaches to the sleep issues.

I'm probably going to up my Choline Bitartrate intake to 6g aday, which is roughly the safe maximum for choline(3g per day). Though I think I could go even higher than 3g of choline per day as my bodies choline consumption is very high on this megadose regime. I know of the dangers of depression being associated with high levels of acetylcholine, but I do not buy this. I believe the depression is the symptom of another issue that is caused by the increase in acetylcholine, such as low energy levels, or something along those lines.

Edit:
Actually just read something along the lines of matching your choline intake with your Piracetam dose... and considering I'm stacking it with Pramiracetam, I might consider taking 15-20g of choline bitartate aday to see the effects it has

Edited by OpenStrife, 18 July 2012 - 12:08 AM.

[victortsoi]

I agree! as I mentioned in another thread, I usually find that my rule is "add more lecithin until you feel better" (lecithin being the most "basic" choline source I have at the moment). I also find you need some lecithin even with alcar.

[OpenStrife]

Yup. What I ultimately want is to tinker around with my doses until I get a perfectly desired state of mind. Pre-determined dosages can only help so much since every person is different in some way or another

[Junk Master]

Try a couple poached eggs with a drizzle of olive oil and a pinch of Himalayan pink salt.

[OpenStrife]

I don't like eating eggs all too much. If I ever eat eggs more than twice a week(3-4 eggs per meal), I just begin to not be able to stand the taste. I've tried tons of recipies. I can eat them every now and then, and enjoy them... but my body rapidly gains a disgust for the taste of eggs. If I have to eat them more than 2-3 times a week, I'm on the verge of vommiting and having to force myself to finish what I've cooked.

It's not even that I don't like eggs, I've actually come up with several good flavorings for them, but something about them just doesn't sit well with my stomach

[Animal]

The thing is, hypomania and especially mania, make you believe that you're a genius, without that actually being the case quantitatively. So you'll forgive me if your claims of higher mental functioning are dismissed as the typical grandiosity characteristic of most substance abusing hypomanics. Your paranoia about 'exposing too much information' is also highly typical.

I mean reading this sentence "I have already cultivated, over 6 perfect scenarios for me to live on my own and easily make in excess of $300,000 a year, while barley leaving my house." I had to laugh, it could have come out of a 'psychologists handbook on recognising forms of mania' it's that ridiculously trite.

Sure, the manic temperament has been linked with genius, but only when it occurs naturally, usually as a symptom of bipolar disorder. Plus these people begin achieving when they are quite young, it's not something that can be switched on and off. When it is substance induced, there is actually a negative correlation with achievement. The problem is that it's impossible to sustain, and often the user will be so terrified of coming down that they'll use the substance in excess; triggering full mania and often hospitalisation.


Piracetam's mechanism for instigating mania in certain individuals is actually rather simple, it's got nothing to do with some super enhancement of mental faculties. As soon as you stop 'megadosing' the racetams, you'll crash; no matter how much 'power' you believe your meditation is giving you lol.

To me you're nothing but another substance abuser chasing mania, which unfortunately seems far too common on this forum and is often actively encouraged.

[OpenStrife]

I understand some of my statements are laughable, and I do not hold it against you, because infact, they are laughable. A lot of things are outright criticized and laughed at for being represented with such a strong point of view, before any actual evidence of such claims is visible.

Also, to comment on your idea that it cannot be turned on and off, and that most geniuses start when they are young..... this is because, they are in these states of mind when they are very young, but their minds are fresh, they are still developing, there being much room for behavioral development, which will ultimately shape their choices and accomplishments later on in life.

Many people seem to forget that success is largely attitude. I know plenty of people who have remarkable mental abilities but have shit attitudes and waste their lives playing video games or doing nothing.

As far as your comments on meditation, I must respectfully disagree. I have been meditating for many many years now and I have much experience in changing my brain structure and patterns, as rash as that may sound. I respect your opinion, but I must leave it at, I have much experience and hundreds of hours of research into meditation in the past 6-7 years of my life, and I'm going to assume you have none, or else you would not be saying what you are saying.

Crashing and losing all of these abilities upon the cessation of the stack is obviously a possibility, yes... Maybe I will come out of this and lose all I have gained. But maybe the opposite is true, because nobody has tried to combine such mega stacks with meditation. The essence of meditation is about manipulating and influencing psychologicl and biological behavior and gaining a higher level of control over it. There are accomplishments in Yogic tradition called Siddhis, that can be attained after many hours of meditation practice, and many of these Siddhis are simply the product of extremely high cognitive ability, as a result of mental training.

But that is the single prime reason I am doing these experiments, to see if I can use these boosted states and train my brain to operate in them with meditation while I'm off the substance. I must say I truly do appreciate your skepticism, criticism, and outright low view of me - the fact that you have such point of views indicates that I am doing something that has been worth your response in the first place.

I do agree with you on one point, no amount of supplements/nootropics can cause a permanent boost in brain function. A large portion of brain function, and succesfulness is solely reliant upon behavior. Supplements can only influence behavior to a degree, but a large portion of that is up to our conscious decision to make different behavioral decisions. This includes the ability to solve math problems very well. It is psychological behavior composed of a positive attitude towards a problem that opens the doors for the solution to come through, this attitude and behavior ultimately starts the pathway for advanced mathematical skills developing because a certain psychological behavior and attitude is constantly practiced, you begin to become so good at knowing what you're looking for that your brain can much more easily deliver the solution to you.

The brain is almost all behavior. The fact is most people are not mentally aware enough of their brains subconscious behavior, so they mistakenly assume that they just 'are not smart', and so on, etc. This assumption about themselves lead to even more behavior that is regarded as 'not smart'. Isochroma believed to NEED piracetam to maintain these states of mind, he became obsessed with it, while he was on it, this inpart, influence a great deal of stress when his supply went dry because he believed he needed it so badly. If you believe you need anything too badly, and you lose it, the stress will be tremendous - such as loosing a loved one.

Even though isochroma went excessively depressive over having no Piracetam, it can not be argued that even when he was not on it, his tremendous writing ability was still rampant in what he wrote. This, is what I am talking about, it is an perfect example of learned behavior. The depressiveness and arrogant attitude was not caused by any sort of with withdrawal, but by his own believe about himself and Piracetam. He was obsessed with it.

The core power of meditation is making you more aware of your brains subtle behaviors, and only if you are aware of these behaviors can they be changed. This is exactly how many advanced Yogis have developed the ability to do things such as manually control their heart beat, and even control growth on a cellular level by manipulating the growth of tumors, forcing them to grow, and forcing them to heal. Just as many buddhist monks have had EEG scans done to prove that they have the ability to alter their brainwaves and brain behavior/neurological functioning with simple concentration and intention.

We shall see how this goes . I truly do appreciate your input. No scientist can be a good scientist if they are not aware of potentially wrong assumptions on their behalf, or alternate points of views to why their methodology may be incorrect.

Also, forgive me for what I am about to say, but I have been meditating for so long that I am confident to say that I know more about the behavior of the mind and how psychological behavior and changes happen more than ANYONE on this forum, at least from the perspective of the user - and this is not a Piracetam induced belief, this is a belief based out of experience in my many years of meditating and mental manipulation of my mind through meditation.

Psychiatry is still a very primitive science based on diagnosing people from their external behavior and how they describe themselves.

While I do this with hopes to better my life and my meditation abilities, I also do it with hopes to better scientific understanding of how meditation can be used with supplements to speed up permanent brain changes - assuming it goes how I expect it to.

And if it all goes down the drain... and goes nothing like how I confidently expect it to, then I am right now, giving you permission to mock me and make fun of me as much as you like. This is how people learn.

-OS

Edit:
Also I would like to note Isochroma was not taking any choline source that I am aware of. From my experience, Piracetam can boost acetylcholine levels, but it can also lower them, by interfering with the cycle of their raisings and lowerings when asleep. He supposedly didn't take choline because he felt his fish oil was keeping away the headaches...


I noticed after last night, when my sleep was shit, I felt very manic, yet powerful, almost drunk, with a disgust for people, almost on a level of Isochromas 'feeling like a god and having a disgust for people'. But I took some choline and took a nap and this all went away, but my energy levels from Piracetam maintained.

Also before you continue reading, you should have assumed by now that acetylcholine is VERY important to sleep. It is one of the most critical neurotransmitters when it comes to regulating sleep cycles. No acetylcholine = shit sleep. Piracetam = high energy, regardless of sleep.

This leads me to believe, since Isochroma was not taking a regular choline source(using fishoil as a substitute (rolls eyes)), that his manic states were infact not induced by piracetam, but a combination of the type of mania that is induced by poor sleep cycles, and high energy, the high energy coming from Piracetam. I find that when taking a consistent choline source with Piracetam, it tends to keep away the thoughts of "I hate everyone because I am superior, I am a god, etc". The irritability he experience likely did not come from not being able to tolerate stupid people, but from his poor sleep caused by low choline. He was judging his 'sleep quality' based on how much energy he had... Even when I don't get good sleep, on piracetam, I still have a lot of energy, and it should be noted that this energy and typical mental clarity should not be mistaken for a well rested sleep.....

*points to his ravings of never feeling tired by taking more and more piracetam* The piracetam likely covered up many of the low energy causes of shit sleep, but it did not hide the fact of his extreme irritability... I remember reading a forum post of his replying to some guys topic where the guy was asking about Methylene Blue and other peoples experiences, and Isochroma was the first responder and jumped down the guys throat about how dare he ask about other peoples experiences without sharing his own first, with extreme anger and hate fueled language. This is perfectly typical of someone who hasn't gotten enough sleep who has a ton of energy(like a meth junkie who stays up for days and days)

Edited by OpenStrife, 18 July 2012 - 06:36 AM.

[OpenStrife]

Oh, and to throw this out there.

When I have reached my desired meditative state(which could take up to a month or more), I will document my efforts to maintain this state while weening off my stack dosage.

If my theory holds to be true, I shall be able to keep all of the meditative behavior and knowledge, including access to the state, which I gained while on the Piracetam stack, while off Piracetam.

Which in theory seems very possible. If you take substance that boost brain chemical levels, and you go learn some new material while on that new substance, chances are you'll remember a good portion of what you were able to remember when you were on the substance.

That's all meditation is. Learning how to enter altered states of mind. All substances do is put you in a state of mind, teaching you nothing about how it is entered.

[Junk Master]

Seems to me, after months of dosing Piracetam at 4g 3x per day, it's very useful for restoring brain function after excessive alcohol use, good for creativity, and motivation, but you're asking waaay too much from it.

IMO Aniracetam and meditation would be a much better combo if you respond.

Or why not go "whole hog," pun intended, and try Cerebrolysin?

Two hundred years from now Isochroma's posts will be collected and as revered as the works of Kafka.

[OpenStrife]

I am not asking much from Piracetam. Piracetam alone will do little for me in the long term. I believe a lot of people are missing the point.

I am using Piracetam(and other noots in the stack) to act as a Catalyst to my meditation, to speed up my progress.

It's not hard to break down. Meditation improves brain function on a permanent and behavioral level. Piracetam rapidly boost my meditation progress and skills. Meaning, Piracetam is the perfect catalyst to boost meditation performance and progress... I mean, it's already doing it. I have learned more about my meditations in the past week than I have in the past 6 months. When I say this, I mean I am learning new behavioral techniques to improve my meditation. It would be nonsense to say that I would magically forget all of this when I stop taking Piracetam. The brain does not work like that.

When I stop taking Piracetam I'm not going to lose my meditation abilities, that's not how it works. If that were the case, it would be the same as saying if you use Piracetam to learn how to drive or some other skill, that the skill will magically go away when you stop taking it. NOT the case. Meditation is about forming new behavioral related neural networks which affect brain performance. Piracetam acts as the perfect catalyst because it boost the driving fuel for these new networks to form.

If you don't do anything with these 'driving fuel', no new networks will form and it will simply act as fuel temporarily boosting what you have and you WILL revert back to your normal brain state after your run is done.

Edited by OpenStrife, 18 July 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[Junk Master]

I think you're missing my point-- for what you hope to accomplish a NGF stack of sublingual Uridine, B vitamins, and high dose fish oil (or Flax) would be more effective. Or NGF eyedrops if you have a spare 100,000 K laying around.

Also, comparing Piracetam to Cerebrolysin is like creatine v. steroids.

[protoject]

I'm trying really hard not to be hastily judgemental.. You sound like me after I fasted , meditated excessively and did too many drugs. Almost. Then again I'm not exactly a fan of meditation, because I used to be a huge fan of it but actually i found it seperated me further from reality rather than bringing me closer to it. [and really, I wasn't doing anything wrong. Should I go another 80 years and then maybe on the last day I will die while meditating.. amazing!].. All crazy people and idiots are NOT necessarily geniuses. Actually, I'm pretty sure a large percentage of them are exactly that: crazy and idiots. Hell, maybe they are actually super-genious super-natural energies that jump from body to body and have a spiritual evolution through many bodies. Hm, oh , nevermind, there's not a shred of evidence for spirits even existing. Maybe we are just too dumb to figure it out. your posts just lack a lot of substance. It's all filler talking about this amazing thing that is so amazing that you can't even explain it even though you're so super smart. We have to be on your level to get it. Nevermind. Please just excuse my sarcasm for a minute..... did you ever consider that you were obsessively meditating? how about depending on meditation to feel good about yourself? Just some interesting concepts considering our look at Isochroma "depending" on piracetam to make him smart. On top of that, behavior is so super important- that's why I chose not to behave by isolating myself from the world in a deep inner meditation where I sit there and focus on breathing- why not meditate by focusing on actually doing some other activities than focusing on ones own brain patterns.. I mean Christ, now when you try to go out into the real world and do real things, your behaviour will be so magnetized towards sitting down and focusing on your heart rate and your thoughts, that you'll just recoil.

Ahhh. I'm sorry. I am not trying to be mean. I am just really seeing a lot of problems here. I would love to see some actual results from your end and maybe some substance. It's all very wishy-washy, occult and idealistic, not grounded in reality. Or, maybe it has some sense to it, but it's very unbalanced. If you could teach me wrong [with results], I'd be very happy- but only if I were guaranteed to be able to do the same.

[protoject]

I don't need to have meditated extensively for 7 years to ask you to actually provide how you've been gauging your progress. It's a pretty simple thing. Let's see some results. I mean you've been doing this for 7 years. We don't have to be experts to understand your results. We want to see real world results that your meditation has translated into. I don't want any more occult stuff. We know you think this is super special info that can only be released when the work is complete. But will it ever be complete? will it ever actually bring results? It has been 7 years already. Are your expectations a bit idealistic? I really hope you aren't wasting your time here.

AH. i have a really good point I forgot to mention. Have you ever tried to stop meditation for an extended period of time, or to drastically lessen the time spent in meditation? I'm sure this would give you some clear perspective of where it's actually put you.

Better yet, to remove any smugness I've been putting off, I have to ask you what you do with the rest of your time and if the meditation is affecting other parts of your life in a substantial way. Like for example, have you made advances in your career? Social life? Family life.. love life? or have you put yourself too far above everyone because of your special meditation practises in your alone club?

[GettingThere]

Oh, and to throw this out there.

When I have reached my desired meditative state(which could take up to a month or more), I will document my efforts to maintain this state while weening off my stack dosage.

If my theory holds to be true, I shall be able to keep all of the meditative behavior and knowledge, including access to the state, which I gained while on the Piracetam stack, while off Piracetam.

Which in theory seems very possible. If you take substance that boost brain chemical levels, and you go learn some new material while on that new substance, chances are you'll remember a good portion of what you were able to remember when you were on the substance.

That's all meditation is. Learning how to enter altered states of mind. All substances do is put you in a state of mind, teaching you nothing about how it is entered.

I really appreciate this aspect of your 'experiment' and think that your efforts to retain desired level of functioning while gradually lowering your dosage could be valuable information to a lot of us. Using these substances, the racetams in particular, to enhance one aspect or another of mental functioning is great and useful and interesting and all, but who wouldn't be interested in sustaining nootropic-enhanced levels of functioning without relying on the costly substances themselves? I certainly would be.

I might agree with some of the concerns raised by others in this thread, but even if I don't want to pursue the same racetam mega-dosing and extreme meditation path as you (and I definitely don't), I think this experiment could still have useful applications for my own experience with nootropics and striving for optimal levels of mental functioning.

[GettingThere]

One aspect of your log that does leave me with some questions is your sleep schedule and overall schedule of activity throughout the day. You commented on the pramiracetam causing excessive sleep sometimes, but it seems that as of late the piracetam may be counteracting that. Could you shed more light on your day-to-day schedule (sleep, work, other obligations, etc)? Your elevated learning abilities sound great, but I'm most envious of your freedom to spend entire days devoting yourself to nothing but learning new skills and meditating. This may be too personal, but can you say anything about your employment and living situations? I think many people on these forums would love a schedule like yours, but sleeping till 10 or 11, meditating and learning for the sake of learning doesn't pay the bills. At least not my bills, maybe I need to get new ones