69 replies to this topic

[OpenStrife]

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Oh no doubt that there are better stacks than what I am doing now, no where did I claim I had the best and most optimal stack haha. I just want to try this before I go to anything else.

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You can be as judgemental as you like, it won't upset me.

As far as meditation, I do rely on it to feel good. As a matter a fact, meditation is the reason I am in the career field as succesful as I am.

The difference between crazy people and genius is their focus. Is a genius who is manically obsessed with physics, and really good at physics, still, just a manically obsessed individual whose focus is physics? It is the manic obsession that drives him to be so good at it.

Do not worry, I am not offended by your post. I am my self and I know who I am. I know what I believe, and I know what I want out of life. Meditation will do nothing for a person if he does not know what he wants out of it. One can meditate obsessively, and without a goal, that person will just become obsessed with meditation, and become hyper withdrawn from reality, like you said. It is the goal. Meditation is a tool. Tools have great power depending upon how they are used.

I wish I could reveal more about my work but due to the sensitivity of what I do and media attention, I cannot reveal my identity. I have a very strong focus in my life and meditation makes me very good at what I do. You could say I rely on it. But we all rely on something in relation to a goal. If your goal is to live, you can say you rely on food to live, etc.

When I stopped meditating for a few months last year, I gradually lost focus, and became lazy, got heavily involved in drug addiction, I almost destroyed all the progress I gained. When I say drug addiction, I am not talking about petty marijuana, I'm talking hard core. Herion, Crack, Crystal Meth. Meditation is the sole reason I have recovered and practically completely reversed the damage those drugs did to me.

-let me note I am writing this as reading your post.

Again, feel no need to hold back any personality, it does not bother me. If something bothers you, then don't say it.

As far as my personal life, again, I am very focused. I keep in touch with my family, but most my time goes to my career. Meditation being an integral part in my success. I have friends I keep in touch with and see on a week to week basis. I do not have a love life right now because I find it to be more of distraction and dedication than anything for the time being. Many people can agree on this, when you have things you want to accomplish, sometimes you just how to make certain sacrifices.

I have a very specific view on meditation and I am very focused in my use of it. I do not expect others to share this view as they have no gone through what I have gone through. If I were a recluse, why would it matter to people?

I am doing what I love with my life and achieving all of my goals that I wish to achieve, and doing it happily, along with living a very successful life at that, which is a lot more than most people can say. Isn't that what everyone wants? To live life doing what they love and enjoy, with as little stresses as possible?

Normally I would not respond to people directly looking to troll me, but I am responding to you because I sincerely believe you want to understand my thought process and who I am as a person to try to better understand why I say some of the things I say.

As far as gauging my process in meditation, it's not so easy, nor something I want to do. I know when I progress in meditation, and I'll leave it at that. One can not progress in meditation, or not progress as easily, if they do not have an idea of where they are going with it and what they want out of it, and I know very clearly what I want and because of that I can gauge very clearly when I am progressing or not.

I really appreciate this aspect of your 'experiment' and think that your efforts to retain desired level of functioning while gradually lowering your dosage could be valuable information to a lot of us. Using these substances, the racetams in particular, to enhance one aspect or another of mental functioning is great and useful and interesting and all, but who wouldn't be interested in sustaining nootropic-enhanced levels of functioning without relying on the costly substances themselves? I certainly would be.

I might agree with some of the concerns raised by others in this thread, but even if I don't want to pursue the same racetam mega-dosing and extreme meditation path as you (and I definitely don't), I think this experiment could still have useful applications for my own experience with nootropics and striving for optimal levels of mental functioning.

I sincerely believe it is possible to sustain these levels while off racetams. Just as a baby is developing in the womb, the mothers diet will largely determine the outcome of the childs brain. If the baby brain was not developing then how would it be possible for the mothers diet to influence any change.

One aspect of your log that does leave me with some questions is your sleep schedule and overall schedule of activity throughout the day. You commented on the pramiracetam causing excessive sleep sometimes, but it seems that as of late the piracetam may be counteracting that. Could you shed more light on your day-to-day schedule (sleep, work, other obligations, etc)? Your elevated learning abilities sound great, but I'm most envious of your freedom to spend entire days devoting yourself to nothing but learning new skills and meditating. This may be too personal, but can you say anything about your employment and living situations? I think many people on these forums would love a schedule like yours, but sleeping till 10 or 11, meditating and learning for the sake of learning doesn't pay the bills. At least not my bills, maybe I need to get new ones

I am self employed and live by myself. I do creative work, and make quite a bit of money doing it. I can probably manage about 4-6 hours a week doing work I enjoy averaging out to about $100-400 per hour. I am of course a rare example, but the only reason I am able to pull this off is because throughout my life I have put a lot of time and effort in to developing a skill I can use to make money, and it has paid off. None of it would have been possible without meditation, as meditation has enhanced my creative abilities through the roof. Yes, I do have a lot of time to do what I want, and don't really have many social obligations. I work on my own time. I can work for as long as I want, or a little as I want, the time I put into my creative work equals out to money, so I don't really have a limit as too much how I could work. I could be making a lot more than I am now.

Point being. If you want your lifes schedule to be like mine, then you have to plan your future. You have to know what you want out of life, figure out how you're going to get it. Develop a skill set that will separate you from the crowd. In the past years I have studied the qualities of successful people, successful attitudes, and just overall things that were reasons for their success and I adapted. I knew what I had to develop in myself to be like how I want, and I did it for the most part.

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I'm open to all questions, and please if you have criticism do not hold anything back if you feel you are being mean. The fact of the matter is, I have a direct idea for what I want to achieve, and I have a plan for how I am going to get it. So no amount of criticism about me or my life is going to change how I am living it, as I am accomplishing what I desire to accomplish... and that's all anyone wants out of life.

[Junk Master]

Good for you quitting the hard drugs!

You sound a little like...

http://img2-1.timein...ssell_brand.jpg

[OpenStrife]

Lol, yeah I'm totally Russel Brand!

Haha I wish; he's not even the same Gender....

[GettingThere]

I sincerely believe it is possible to sustain these levels while off racetams. Just as a baby is developing in the womb, the mothers diet will largely determine the outcome of the childs brain. If the baby brain was not developing then how would it be possible for the mothers diet to influence any change.

I understand your theory behind all this, and am very interested to see how it holds up in practice. I honestly hope it goes well for you, and either way I hope to learn a thing or two from your example.

You seem pretty determined to stay vague regarding your career, which is entirely respectable and understandable, I was just curious as to some of the general aspects of your personal life. Like you mentioned in your last post, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being somewhat of a recluse, I just wanted to get a feel for your employment, social life etc. so I can further understand your writing, mostly because if you're experiences go well I'd be interested in replicating them to a certain degree.

To put it briefly: I wanted to see if you're an utter nutcase before giving serious regard to your writings, no offense

For example, in the earlier stages of his racetam megadosing Isochroma was experienced enhanced cognitive effects that may have sounded attractive to many nootropic users. From what I've gathered, however, he was living mainly off of government disability payments, was unemployed, lived alone but was profoundly antisocial and, obviously, grew to be utterly paranoid and delusional. Some of these details might be wrong, I read all that stuff a while ago, but my general impression was that he was not someone who's example I want to be following.

I'd be very interested to hear how you're racetam dosing influences your social and interpersonal relationships.

[OpenStrife]

To put it briefly: I wanted to see if you're an utter nutcase before giving serious regard to your writings, no offense

For example, in the earlier stages of his racetam megadosing Isochroma was experienced enhanced cognitive effects that may have sounded attractive to many nootropic users. From what I've gathered, however, he was living mainly off of government disability payments, was unemployed, lived alone but was profoundly antisocial and, obviously, grew to be utterly paranoid and delusional. Some of these details might be wrong, I read all that stuff a while ago, but my general impression was that he was not someone who's example I want to be following.

I'd be very interested to hear how you're racetam dosing influences your social and interpersonal relationships.

I completely understand your curiosity. Though what makes a nutcase? *trollface* haha. I mean, without a societal norm to compare to, there would be no such thing as crazy. If making an active living and not being too overly paranoid is your idea of normal, then yes, I am some what normal. But 'crazy' is just such a vague term and can be applied to all sorts of scenarios and only really if you are considering normal to be the mass of society.


As far as Isochroma, I do not believe his mass paranoia and irritiability was not caused directly by the Piracetam, rather, poor sleep, insomnia, I mentioned this in a post last night. Here's what I wrote so I don't retype it all in a different wording. His idea of sleeping well was waking up with a lot of energy, but the resting qualities of sleep clearly were absent in his mania. Just read the bottom quote.

Also I would like to note Isochroma was not taking any choline source that I am aware of. From my experience, Piracetam can boost acetylcholine levels, but it can also lower them, by interfering with the cycle of their raisings and lowerings when asleep. He supposedly didn't take choline because he felt his fish oil was keeping away the headaches...


I noticed after last night, when my sleep was shit, I felt very manic, yet powerful, almost drunk, with a disgust for people, almost on a level of Isochromas 'feeling like a god and having a disgust for people'. But I took some choline and took a nap and this all went away, but my energy levels from Piracetam maintained.

Also before you continue reading, you should have assumed by now that acetylcholine is VERY important to sleep. It is one of the most critical neurotransmitters when it comes to regulating sleep cycles. No acetylcholine = shit sleep. Piracetam = high energy, regardless of sleep.

This leads me to believe, since Isochroma was not taking a regular choline source(using fishoil as a substitute (rolls eyes)), that his manic states were infact not induced by piracetam, but a combination of the type of mania that is induced by poor sleep cycles, and high energy, the high energy coming from Piracetam. I find that when taking a consistent choline source with Piracetam, it tends to keep away the thoughts of "I hate everyone because I am superior, I am a god, etc". The irritability he experience likely did not come from not being able to tolerate stupid people, but from his poor sleep caused by low choline. He was judging his 'sleep quality' based on how much energy he had... Even when I don't get good sleep, on piracetam, I still have a lot of energy, and it should be noted that this energy and typical mental clarity should not be mistaken for a well rested sleep.....

*points to his ravings of never feeling tired by taking more and more piracetam* The piracetam likely covered up many of the low energy causes of shit sleep, but it did not hide the fact of his extreme irritability... I remember reading a forum post of his replying to some guys topic where the guy was asking about Methylene Blue and other peoples experiences, and Isochroma was the first responder and jumped down the guys throat about how dare he ask about other peoples experiences without sharing his own first, with extreme anger and hate fueled language. This is perfectly typical of someone who hasn't gotten enough sleep who has a ton of energy(like a meth junkie who stays up for days and days)

I personally believe Isochroma set a bad example for Piracetam Mega dose. Saying he never took choline because he noticed Fish Oil kept away his headaches. Saying he slept well because he would wake up full of energy. Yet he demonstrated psychological qualities of a person who had not slept in days. He was almost using Piracetam as a sort of natural Amphetamine.... for months.

Imagine what not getting proper rest for months can do to somebody.

Hopefully me megadosing with Piracetam AND choline will prove Isochromas incident was caused due to a sleep issue induced by lack of choline and choline depletion by piracetam... and not by Piracetam itself.....which could entirely change the communities view on Megadosing with Piracetam into a better light... because Isochroma certainly did not make it seem healthy.


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Oh and about my personal relationships. When I take Piracetam, people seem magnetically attracted toward me. In the past week alone there's been multiple incidences of people telling me that something about me is different and I'm more utterly charming. I attract conversation, when I'm not even looking for it, and this has never happened before.

Edited by OpenStrife, 18 July 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[OpenStrife]

Junk, can you tell me why you believe Aniracetam with meditation would be more effective? I'm just curious, as I don't really know the first hand effects of Aniracetam that much.

[Junk Master]

Aniracetam has several major metabolites that have been show to effect learning and memory in animals. Ani also might repair cognitive deficits induced by alcohol, and or other drug use, though synaptic AMPA receptor modulation

Personally, the first couple hours after ingesting Ani I find the effects very anxiolytic and conducive to entering a meditative/contemplative state. Just speculating, but if one were to continue meditating for a long period of time, Ani becomes more of an Ampakine as it's metabolites kick in. Your meditative state would be enhanced more strongly then with Piracetam.

The caveat is that not everyone responds well to Aniracetam. If they don't, they tend to respond to Oxiracetam.


I'd be very interested in hearing about your experiences if you choose to try Ani.

For me, Pramiracetam is more motivating, hyper-focusing in an ADHD sort of way, and wouldn't be conducive to meditation over long periods of time.

Lots of good info on here about Aniracetam if you use the search function. Pay particular attention to mentions that it's an Ampakine, and about it's dual stage nature.

[victortsoi]

I think either pramiracetam or piracetam is making me tired. I would love your thoughts on it. I take about 200mg prami a day with 1600 piracetam(pira is staggered). Sometimes I add in oxi. I always take 300mg AGPC and UP TO 2g of lecithin with this. Recently I've added ALCAR/ALA into this and Green Tea extract + micronized resveratrol. Why am I so tired?

I am also tapering down picamilon (only been using for about 2 weeks) bc scared of cumulative side effects. Should I take a much larger dose of prami?

Edited by victortsoi, 19 July 2012 - 12:15 AM.

[OpenStrife]

Junk I find Pramiracetam is extremely conducive to meditation, at least, with concentration meditation... which is what I practice. Keep in mind there are many many different forms of meditation and each provide very different effects.
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Victortsoi, I do not believe Pramir or Piracetam is making you tired directly by their effect, but rather, perhaps it is putting a demand on something you don't have. Lack of proper hydration can cause fatigue when you wont even feel thirsty to notice it. Racetams and other nootropics such as L-Theanine can intensify this effect, and it can often be cured by drinking a little water. There is also the possibility that your body may simply need more food, etc. I just don't believe a Racetam can make you tired for the simple fact of thats how it effects you, I believe it brings out underlying causes.

I don't like Lecithin, it did very little for me. There are 2 types of Lecithin, one contains about 16% choline I believe, and the purified form contains About 46%. Your body can much more easily absorb and process choline salts such as Choline Bitartrate or Choline Citrate.

Perhaps you just need to add more choline, try tapering up your choline and see if it has any positive effect, and keep going up until you experience some negatives that can't be solved with a good meal and hydration.

Pramiracetam dosages are very different for people. For me, I can massively benefit from a 500-700mg Pramiracetam dosage without it controlling me. Everyone is different, so if you haven't, I would do an attack dosage... and just, in general, experiment.

[Solipsis]

For me racetams work by far the most noticeably when I am actively using my rational mind, multithreading thoughts and the like. Nootropics can give a feeling of a spacious mind opening up, but I think megadosing them for meditation practices is excessive.
I have experience myself with much more committed meditation in the past (Zen) and have been on an intense week-long retreat. Next to that I also have experience meditating using entheogenic drugs with much success. The retreat was amazing because it was so natural and that is what I would be going for as well here.
Yet I am interested, just out of sheer curiosity, what kind of efficacy you are getting with your experiments.

I have extensive piracetam experience (and with a lot of other non-racetam supplements), very limited aniracetam experience which I think has incredible potential and I stocked quite a lot of it... furthermore I have quantities of oxiracetam, pramiracetam and Noopept for exploration. Hopefully I will be reminded to check out potential for deep and long meditation using them.

[OpenStrife]

For me racetams work by far the most noticeably when I am actively using my rational mind, multithreading thoughts and the like. Nootropics can give a feeling of a spacious mind opening up, but I think megadosing them for meditation practices is excessive.
I have experience myself with much more committed meditation in the past (Zen) and have been on an intense week-long retreat. Next to that I also have experience meditating using entheogenic drugs with much success. The retreat was amazing because it was so natural and that is what I would be going for as well here.
Yet I am interested, just out of sheer curiosity, what kind of efficacy you are getting with your experiments.

I have extensive piracetam experience (and with a lot of other non-racetam supplements), very limited aniracetam experience which I think has incredible potential and I stocked quite a lot of it... furthermore I have quantities of oxiracetam, pramiracetam and Noopept for exploration. Hopefully I will be reminded to check out potential for deep and long meditation using them.

Thank you for your input.

Can you explain what 'excessive' means in this context? How do you define excessive?

Also, I'll note that you are talking about a completely different type/form of meditation than what I am talking about. Zen meditation is almost entirely different than concentration meditation. While concentration meditation involves actively focusing the mind on an object to build concentration and thought depth.. Zen meditation is more centered around letting go, not really focusing on anything, and basically finding zen....

Both forms can ultimately lead to similar experiences, in the long term, but both forms are also extremely different. Both have very different psychological effects on the mind due to the very behavior of the mind during the activity. I also do find the type of meditation I do, is very hard under the influence of any drug, whether it be, DMT, LSD, Mushrooms, cannabis... On the other hand, zen would be very easy on these, as these substances make it very easy to let go, it's almost the opposite of concentration meditation, yet at the same time, both can lead to increased concentration abilities.

I may have to order me some Aniracetam and try it out, but I probably wont try it until I finish my trials for what I am doing now.... and I definitely agree with you on the rational mind idea.

[Solipsis]

Oh good of you to clear that up, it avoids a lot of misunderstanding if we are not talking about quintessentially interchangeable practices of meditation.

Then I must say I do not know enough about other types of meditation to comment on that either way.

Defining 'excessive' is a tricky one, but is your thread not called a 'mega dosing blog' ?
For some racetam users it is normal to ingest grams and grams every day and I can imagine that if you find it important that the effects are explicitly present and emphasized like they otherwise would only be in the beginning of your trials. My personal approach is that I am satisfied to grow accustomed to racetam effects dissolving in the background, yet the benefit from them can still be seen in the performance when something like multitasking is required. Then the difference of having taken them becomes clear again.
For me excessive (not about passing judgement) is to try and force the most novelty out of it, to take enough to offset the fact that one may grow accustomed to more subtle effects.

[OpenStrife]

Oh good of you to clear that up, it avoids a lot of misunderstanding if we are not talking about quintessentially interchangeable practices of meditation.

Then I must say I do not know enough about other types of meditation to comment on that either way.

Defining 'excessive' is a tricky one, but is your thread not called a 'mega dosing blog' ?
For some racetam users it is normal to ingest grams and grams every day and I can imagine that if you find it important that the effects are explicitly present and emphasized like they otherwise would only be in the beginning of your trials. My personal approach is that I am satisfied to grow accustomed to racetam effects dissolving in the background, yet the benefit from them can still be seen in the performance when something like multitasking is required. Then the difference of having taken them becomes clear again.
For me excessive (not about passing judgement) is to try and force the most novelty out of it, to take enough to offset the fact that one may grow accustomed to more subtle effects.

Ahh but excessiveness is always subjective.

I've actually been considering upping my piracetam dosage... combined with meditation, I can say that I am quickly becoming accustomed to the sort of power it brings, meaning I can up my doses even higher. My theory is, the more power I can handle and control... then the more power I can focus into my practice. Of course there reaches a point where the amount is counterproductive to practice... but if meditation is rapidly raising my ability to handle and use the power of it, then why not keep increasing it... just to see if more will mean more progress.

I am notably learning new things about my meditation technique and how to improve it every day that I practice, at much more rapid rate than when I was taking 2g every 2 hours. What if I go up to 6g every 2 hours? If I can handle the power and it increases productiveness in my practice even more, and it does not make me mentally unstable, then what's the harm? I won't know any harm unless I find out . My bodies durable, It can recover from a lot of harsh damage due to some techniques I've learned in meditation, which is one of the reasons I am so willing to do such high doses on myself. As far as kidney/kidney stone worries... meditation also has research backed to help clear up those issues and keep organs in tip top shape.

Only one way to find out! I'll probably consider upping my dosing in about a week as I get more used to 4g every 2 hours.

[Solipsis]

Yes it's subjective as long as the safety is indicated, and in this case it is. I have already briefly touched upon this: there is no criticism, but everyone has their personal preference.

I myself just would not do this, it's not a matter of debating "why would you?" vs "why not?" to me - if you want to do it then go right ahead. But if at a level of several grams repeatedly in the same day isn't giving you a feeling that it's sufficient then maybe there are other responses available than upping the dose again and again that also have value in them. Maybe more value, who knows?
Personally I am mostly into exotic psychedelics, and what I see there is that it often not worthwhile to push a compound that is just not that potent to try and achieve diproportionately remarkable results. Meaning that if you want to get more out of it and you are getting into megadose territory, it is an indication that apparently you are not working in the most effective potency range to meet your requirements.

Those 4g and 6g doses, just to be clear: are you talking about piracetam or pramiracetam there? If you are already going that high with a potent one like pramiracetam then diregard the previous paragraph.

I can also have plenty of sympathy if you find something like Noopept too novel to be pushing the envelope with that one.

Again: if you feel like you are on the right track, nobody is stopping you. But megadosing seems to me like it's good for a limited period as an experiment but not something sustainable, even if it should be tolerable for the body.

However different concentration meditation may be from Zen: maybe you should not underestimate the nootropic powers of some psychedelics in low doses. It's not coincidence that hydergine has some relation to LSD, I think. And it could be a misconception that psychedelics are too confusing for focussed attention, at least that is probably a result of using a dosage meant for another type of experience.

And what about something like modafinil? I'm just trying to help by thinking aloud about other compounds and their effects and why they would or would not work for your specific case. The answer might eventually be that what you are doing now turns out to be ideal, still.
But meanwhile investigating everything can answer interesting questions, improve the quality of your results and/or consolidate your current setup.

[victortsoi]

Openstrife- this is an awesome thread and I really appreciate how openminded and helpful you try to be with your extrapolated knowledge. I think I'll buy some cheap choline to go with my gpc instead of the ~33% PC Lecithin that I'm using. I am far too tired a lot of the time and I want to fix it, it is very counter-productive to my intense day (constant studying in rigorous program). With the racetams, a lot of the times I feel on the edge of mental greatness but that "something" is holding me back. SOmetimes alcar will be just the thing to make the racetams feel amazing other times it wont . I am going for efficiency here....
Do you think 600 AGPC at once is far too much on a regular basis with these stacks? Or AGPC with centrophenoxine? Im debating on trying two "powerful" choline sources instead of say AGPC with sh**ty choline. I'll try a slightly higher dose of prami tommorow. I like stacking it with oxi, have you ever tried it?

Disclaimer-I'm adjusting my work/school habits to a post-adderall stage, which means I have to adapt to working outside of the destructive (at least for me) adderall loop of binging, cramming, and crashing, I need efficient energy for every day without burning out or hurting myself. Also, I've been taking 300mg AGPC with a racetam of some kind almost every day for months, with few breaks. I can't afford to cycle it this month.

Edited by victortsoi, 19 July 2012 - 04:11 AM.

[OpenStrife]

Yes it's subjective as long as the safety is indicated, and in this case it is. I have already briefly touched upon this: there is no criticism, but everyone has their personal preference.

I myself just would not do this, it's not a matter of debating "why would you?" vs "why not?" to me - if you want to do it then go right ahead. But if at a level of several grams repeatedly in the same day isn't giving you a feeling that it's sufficient then maybe there are other responses available than upping the dose again and again that also have value in them. Maybe more value, who knows?
Personally I am mostly into exotic psychedelics, and what I see there is that it often not worthwhile to push a compound that is just not that potent to try and achieve diproportionately remarkable results. Meaning that if you want to get more out of it and you are getting into megadose territory, it is an indication that apparently you are not working in the most effective potency range to meet your requirements.

Those 4g and 6g doses, just to be clear: are you talking about piracetam or pramiracetam there? If you are already going that high with a potent one like pramiracetam then diregard the previous paragraph.

I can also have plenty of sympathy if you find something like Noopept too novel to be pushing the envelope with that one.

Again: if you feel like you are on the right track, nobody is stopping you. But megadosing seems to me like it's good for a limited period as an experiment but not something sustainable, even if it should be tolerable for the body.

However different concentration meditation may be from Zen: maybe you should not underestimate the nootropic powers of some psychedelics in low doses. It's not coincidence that hydergine has some relation to LSD, I think. And it could be a misconception that psychedelics are too confusing for focussed attention, at least that is probably a result of using a dosage meant for another type of experience.

And what about something like modafinil? I'm just trying to help by thinking aloud about other compounds and their effects and why they would or would not work for your specific case. The answer might eventually be that what you are doing now turns out to be ideal, still.
But meanwhile investigating everything can answer interesting questions, improve the quality of your results and/or consolidate your current setup.

I was talking Piracetam with those dosages. Potency is a very vague term, everything can be considered potent in comparison to something else, so the term really doesn't mean anything unless you are exclusively talking about ratios of chemicals in mixtures of certain substances.... such as forms/strains of Marijuana. 1 strain can be more potent than another, but this term only applies because you are comparing strengths of different mixtures. As far as I am concerned, saying 1 pure chemical is more potent than another pure chemical, when the chemicals are completely different, is an extreme misnomer/misuse of the word.

Also, referencing the above paragraph, terms like Megadose and superdose don't really mean anything. Dosages can only be considered 'mega' in relation to predetermined dosages. Most scientific testing was done in small doses, and they saw benefits from it, and that's what was recorded. Sure there was some mega dose testing, but not extensively on humans. Whose to say that 1-4g aren't actually MICRO doses, and that insanely positive neural benefits can be achieved in dosages in the 40-50g range? Nobody has really tried gigantic dosages like that consistently. This stuff isn't toxic. Though, in high doses it can rapidly deplete other brain chemicals, as a result of rapid brain improvement, and that can cause negative feelings... but this can be corrected by also supplementing those chemicals that lack(such as the choline). The point I'm saying is, there hasn't been that much human testing, in the long term, with super high doses, so terms like 'megadosing' really mean nothing unless you are actively comparing your results to predetermined or expected results. It's all subjective.


It's not that the dosages that I am working with "aren't working", but I realize since I have gotten used to the current feelings, I could derive much greater benefits at higher doses, theoretically. I mean, as long as upping the dosages can improve my meditative progress, and not hinder it in anyway, then what's the harm? If there was a dose that would allow me to become a master meditator in a single hour, then why not take that super dose, if it is conducive to my goal? Basically I'm trying to find my limit, and just how much I can gain in terms of the effects I am looking for.

I consider my self a scientist(in some sense), an intellectual. I want to push the limits, find out what can truly be accomplished. I want to go where no one else has gone and do what no one else has dared to do before in order to gain more understanding and knowledge about what ever it is.

About Noopept: I do not want to try it as of right now as I have read NUMEROUS BAD reports about it. I may look into it in the future.

About psychedelics: I used to be an avid user of psychedelics, a period of my summer a few years ago, I tripped shrooms 2-3 times a week, when most people would suggest only once a month. I've done similar dosings with LSD. I do not doubt their are nootropic effects from psychedelics, infact, I know there are, at low doses, but the problem that I have with using them as nootropics is their mechanism. While, I haven't used them in low doses frequently before... I may have to try that out some time, but not right now. Everytime I take any psychedelic my mind is thrown off for days at a time, and I don't want to dabble in dosages that can potentially throw me off of my current goal. 1 goal at a time .

About modafinil: I have been reluctant to try this one as well mainly because it boost wakefulness. When many of the positive benefits of meditation are a result of conscious sleep, where your brainwaves slow to the point of sleep/dreaming but the mind is conscious. If modafinil promotes wakefulness, it could be counterproductive to what I am trying to achieve. So like the others... maybe sometime in the future.

Though, once I achieve my current Mind/Mental goals, the next on the list would probably be toying around in the psychedelics field for nootropic purposes, but this wont be for a while.

Basically I have a very clear goal in my head for what I am looking to achieve, and based on my past experience with numerous drugs and research I've done on some that I haven't tried, I am aware of various effects they can induce that would be counterproductive to my meditations, as I know what I am looking for in my meditation, so I chose to avoid them for the time being.

But very good suggestions, always good to keep these things in mind.

Openstrife- this is an awesome thread and I really appreciate how openminded and helpful you try to be with your extrapolated knowledge. I think I'll buy some cheap choline to go with my gpc instead of the ~33% PC Lecithin that I'm using. I am far too tired a lot of the time and I want to fix it, it is very counter-productive to my intense day (constant studying in rigorous program). With the racetams, a lot of the times I feel on the edge of mental greatness but that "something" is holding me back. SOmetimes alcar will be just the thing to make the racetams feel amazing other times it wont . I am going for efficiency here....
Do you think 600 AGPC at once is far too much on a regular basis with these stacks? Or AGPC with centrophenoxine? Im debating on trying two "powerful" choline sources instead of say AGPC with sh**ty choline. I'll try a slightly higher dose of prami tommorow. I like stacking it with oxi, have you ever tried it?

Disclaimer-I'm adjusting my work/school habits to a post-adderall stage, which means I have to adapt to working outside of the destructive (at least for me) adderall loop of binging, cramming, and crashing, I need efficient energy for every day without burning out or hurting myself. Also, I've been taking 300mg AGPC with a racetam of some kind almost every day for months, with few breaks. I can't afford to cycle it this month.

'Too much' varies between individuals. Everyone has a limit. When it comes to dosages, the only thing I can suggest is you experiment with yourself and pay close attention to how your body responds throughout the day, note it if it helps. Tomorrow I've decided to up to my Choline Bitartrate dose to 4g for every 4g of Piracetam. I know distinctly what an abundance of choline feels like in my brain and I'm just not getting that feeling lately, or a lot of the other choline benefits, which tells me I am not getting enough choline.

Though, with school, experimenting with dosages isn't always the smartest thing, unless you do very small doses at a time, itll just take longer. Making big jumps that could potentially throw you out of a learning mindset(or potentially boost it) are just too risky if you have school demands to meet.

[electricmonk500]

Getting to these states of mind is easily possible with enough meditation practice. Though, Piracetam will enable me to already enter those states of mind(which would take a normal meditator years of practice to sustain). Essentially allowing me to make months of meditation progress per day. The past few days have tested successfully. I will continue to see how it goes. Meditation is all about training the mind, and controlling the brain and it's chemistry with conscious thought and intention.

While I have read the whole thread with great interest, I have singled out this sentiment of yours, which I think is also at the heart of a great many other statements you have made that have left me puzzled. I was hoping you could clear up a few things for me.

Do you consider yourself a buddhist, or are you following these meditation practices only as a part of your project of self-improvement? If the latter is the case I would urge you to consider more fully what buddhism is as a whole, rather than focusing in only these certain meditation techniques. These meditation techniques, when used as though they are merely "tools" that are only suitable to shape the mind to be used for some practical purpose out in the world can produce very unpredictable results or can, indeed, produce the very result you intended, but leave you without any real ultimate understanding.

If you do consider yourself a buddhist I wonder at why you are so concerned with "progressing." I consider myself a buddhist (with some caveats) and I practice mindfulness and meditation. I cannot understand how you might still maintain such views as "progress" vs "regress" if you are as highly advanced in your meditation practice as you say. But maybe this word "progress" you chose was just a manner of speaking and not indicative of any deeply held beliefs, but since I only have your words to go by, I must say that this word choice struck me as though you had lifted up my body like a mallet to percuss a 10,000 foot gong and left my head ringing with that delusion.

I am generally unconvinced that a close study of those certain types of meditation that have very specific definitions of altered/higher states of mind leads anywhere but to more delusion, the delusion that comes from clinging to those very definitions in a very un-buddhist fashion. I find it difficult to think of any contingency where in meditation I might want to consider definitions of states of mind as "goals" that I would want to "achieve" through meditation. Why not just look at the mind itself? Maybe what I am pointing out is more related to the basic philosophical dispute between my understanding (which comes largely through Zen) and your own (which comes through different sects of buddhism), but I would be interested in your response anyhow.

To clarify my own views a bit further, your whole experiment/meditative practice seems polluted with goal seeking behaviors that are incompatible with any real ultimate understanding, and are much more likely to lead you into delusional states (which are based around these altered/higher states of consciousness you mention) which can masquerade as real ultimate understanding. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying these altered/higher states do not really exist, that you are imagining these states, I am saying those states don't necessarily lead to any meaningful understanding just by virtue of reaching them and, on the contrary, have great potential to be dangerous because they can be so pleasant and/or blissful and/or calm that the practitioner begins to think that these states are the "goal" and is so distracted by them that s/he never reaches the real understanding, which is without notions of 'pleasant' vs 'painful' or 'calm' vs 'chaotic' or any other such dualistic judgments.

Here's a quote from Bodhidharma (or anyhow, a quote that was attributed to him) that I have found resonates with what I have understood from my own practice (rather than, say, my actually letting the quote persuade me to force my practice to come to the same conclusion/understanding merely because I was convinced by its language or as some attempt to make an appeal to authority):

"To look on life as different from death or on motion as different from stillness is to be partial. To be impartial means to look on suffering as no different from nirvana, because the nature of both is emptiness. By imagining they're putting an end to Suffering and entering nirvana Arhats end up trapped by nirvana. But bodhisattvas know that suffering is essentially empty. And by remaining in emptiness they remain in nirvana."

I understand that you did not come to a forum such as this looking for guidance in your meditative practice (and have even expressed a desire not to reveal the "understandings" that have come to you through your practice, which is also a very worrisome sign to me) and are much more interested in discussing your nootropic experiment, but nevertheless, this is what I have to offer. When I detect what appear to me to be misunderstandings of buddhism or highly dangerous conceptualizations of what meditation is (not dangerous because of the nootropic regimen but because of your intention/aim which threatens to miss the whole point of buddhism in the first place), I feel compelled to point this out if I think I have the ability to properly express the nature of my contention.

Also, let me say that I only make these criticisms because you have shown in this thread that you are indeed open to criticism in what seems a very healthy way, which I commend you for, and because I think the development of a method of using nootropics in conjunction with meditation to be a thing worthy of much consideration and attention.

All the best.

Edited by electricmonk500, 19 July 2012 - 10:45 AM.

[OpenStrife]

Electricmonk, your post is long so I will not quote it directly, but here is my reply.


Buddhist did not invent meditation. Meditation has been practiced since the dawn of times, dating back to sumerian culture. It has been practiced by buddhist, christians, satanist, pagans, etc.

It's a tool. Buddhist chose to use it to gain enlightenment. Though enlightenment is not the ultimate goal of meditation. Nor is meditation the only way to achieve enlightenment.

For my personal privacy reasons, I will not expose my religion, but I can assure you, I am not a buddhist. For I believe that without desire, a lot of power is being lost in meditation. Buddhist focus on eliminating desire, since they see it as an obstacle to enlightenment. I do not seek enlightenment because I do not believe enlightenment is needed to cease suffering. I believe one can alter the mind to see suffering in a different, positive light, to where it is no longer suffering.... instead of completely avoiding the sources of suffering.

A buddhist would not think of meditation in terms of progress, for it really goes against the fundamental idea of their practice, but with that said, I am not a buddhist, and buddhist only use meditation in one of the millions of ways it can be used. Do not get caught in the trap of thinking buddhist are the only ones who use meditation. Even Hitler trained his Third Reich of elite 'highly intelligent' soldiers to meditate to increase intellectual and mental power. As much as I don't like saying it, me and hitler share a view in this aspect, meditation being used to elevate power, but that is also what people do by taking nootropics. I also believe it's recorded that he had his Third Reich Meditate as much as 10 hours aday.

If I were a buddhist, saying all of what I am saying, then yes I would be deluded, but I am not buddhist, and according to my belief system, I am right on point, and progressing perfectly how I expect. If you are a buddhist I am sure you are aware of the various Siddhis that are well known in buddhist culture by advanced meditation practitioners, and recorded in the Yoga Sutras. Siddhis are a very real part of buddhist practice, but buddhist are not supposed to persue them as that can be an obstacle to enlightement, rather, the siddhis will come and go on their own. The mere fact of the existence of siddhis, aka, very high cognitive and supernatural abilities, are a sign of the very power and potential that lies in meditation if used properly.

There are actually some Tibetan/Theravada practicioners who focus almost exclusively on developing siddhis, and do so quite succesfully, and they call themselves buddhist. Some buddhist traditions would call this misguided buddhism.


Thank you for your input but I have to suggest that you be very careful not to be caught up in a single minded view of meditation, viewing it as only used in one way, all other ways being dangerous - because this itself would be an obstacle to enlightement as you would be limiting your mind from seeing the true nature of things. There are many other views on the subject. Buddhist seek to end suffering THROUGH meditation, BY attaining enlightenment, and they have strict ideas of what would be counterproductive to attaining enlightenment, such as regarding meditation in a sense of progress, but this is only applying to buddhist attempting to gain enlightenment. Many buddhist texts specifically say meditators CAN go out of the way to cultivate various siddhis, but it will not help in the 'ultimate goal' of ending suffering and enlightement, and can even lead to be a distraction.

Ultimately, Buddhist are only one of the many traditions that use Meditation, and they have their ideas surrounding it, but their teachings about it are not the holy grail in meditation. Meditation has much other potential in use to elevate other aspects of the mind and attain other sorts of goals. Meditation is a tool that can be used in many many ways. Meditation can be used to gain an extreme amount of power, and if buddhist tradition taught anything of this sort it would be in direct conflict with the buddhist idea of liberating oneself from suffering, escaping the karmic cycle, and attaining enlightement.

If you wish to know my religion/spiritual beliefs, you may message me

Edited by OpenStrife, 19 July 2012 - 04:59 PM.

[electricmonk500]

I never claimed that buddhists invented meditation or that the buddhist version of meditation is the only way. I thought it likely that you were a buddhist because you said the forms of meditation you practice were vipassana and samantha, which are terms I have only ever seen used to describe buddhist meditation. Since I thought you might be a buddhist I responded as though you were. Clearly I was mistaken, you are not a buddhist.

Buddhist focus on eliminating desire, since they see it as an obstacle to enlightenment. I do not seek enlightenment because I do not believe enlightenment is needed to cease suffering. I believe one can alter the mind to see suffering in a different, positive light, to where it is no longer suffering.... instead of completely avoiding the sources of suffering.

I do not know what sort of buddhism you have come into contact with, but I certainly do not focus on eliminating desire, I feel desire just becomes meaningless once you look at it in the mind and subject it to a bit more scrutiny than usual. You also say the rest of this statement as if it is a major point that I would argue against, when it is actually where we share much common ground. Did you read the Bodhidharma quote? It says substantially the same thing, only instead of altering the mind, one just need realize that there is no mind to alter, and instead of seeing suffering in a positive light instead of a negative light, one just sees it from no perspective at all, declining to enter into dualistic judgments of that suffering, whatever it may be.

As I said, I consider myself a buddhist with some caveats and the reason for those caveats is that I feel a lot of buddhist sects teach a great deal of bullshit. I favor Zen because it does not rely on words (which tend to be the source of much bullshit and misunderstanding), but only on the experiential knowledge obtained from meditation as well as ordinary day-to-day life.

These are the only points I wished to clarify in the thread. I'll not derail it further.

[OpenStrife]

The no-mind subject is where I strongly disagree with buddhism. I believe in a mind, I believe in an ego, and I believe they are very important, that is, if you are concerned with success in this world - which goes against the foundation of buddhism. One can meditate enough to where the Ego or mind is not present, or almost non existent, if they wish, because surely, the mind and ego will get in the way of enlightenment, but there are also a lot of other consequences of not exercising a mind and ego..... such as you can't really utilize the power gained through meditation, but again, one who aims on eliminating the mind and the ego would not care about that.

You say instead of altering the mind, you 'realize' that there is no mind to alter....Well, the mind is nothing but desire. With no desires, there is no mind. But acknowledging that there is no mind, desires do become rather meaningless because they stop existing in the same sense. The mind/ego cannot exist without desire.

And I have no problem talking about this... as meditation is a core part of my experiment here.

[victortsoi]

I want to update everyone inasmuch as it would add to the discussion in this thread:

So today I took my usual pira/oxi/prami (800/700/150) stack with 300 GPC and a Lecithin and 1g Alcar. I redosed another 150 prami, 500mg Carnosine, and 350 Choline bitartate for the first time. I feel great., I'm very able to concentrate, control my ADD, and get to work. I think I can cautiously suggest that I've been taking too little choline (or that Lecithin was too problematic as a major source for me) for a very long time. This might relate to how my sleep has been pretty bad.
This is very interesting for me, as for months I was quite concerned that I was at my choline ceiling and shouldn't take any more than I had been. I'd like to see how this goes...
On the other hand, I hope this isn't a sign of serious downregulation of my own choline production, and is instead just related to relatively heavy racetam use.

Edited by victortsoi, 21 July 2012 - 12:24 AM.

[OpenStrife]

Sleep problems often result as a lack of choline. The chemicals that regulate the sleep cycles rely on Acetylcholine to be formed. On the other hand, if you have too many supplements that are stimulating your system, but an abundance of acetylcholine, that too can result in poor sleep.

[Animal]

I feel like I am making breakthrough scientific research that will forever change the meditation community

my thoughts have become so powerful and profound that is feels like every thought I have is of pure gold, pure power, that can achieve great things, at an extreme depth. Is it a gift, or a curse, to be no longer able to have simple notes… without exposing too much information?

In all honesty I feel like the power of my thoughts are ascending to a godly level. It’s common in meditative and buddhist teachings to keep mental ascentions to oneself as in the modern world they would been seen as psychiatric problems.

I have been having a LOT of psychic phenomenom today. After today I solidly believe that I have a psychic link to people around me. I have thought about people moments before they messaged me onlne. I have known what people need, or were about to ask, moments before they ask it.

I now understand why experienced and adept meditators do not like to speak about some of their experiences and abilities. These abilities must be well gaurded and only those who put forth the effort deserve to know about them.

If being a God means you are gradiosly confident, extremely capeable of achieving anything you put your mind to, and ultimately disrupting the functioning of your current society, are you not technically a god, based on your power and capabilities? The person would essentially be ‘manically’ different from the average person as everything is easy. Society is telling you that having the charicteristics of a God makes you utterely insane, but when your achievements made in that state are described on paper, the view suddenly shifts to you being some super human with godlike mental abilities - and worshiped as a god.

I compare this Gradiosity and confidence to the mark in my actual skill and talent increases, and potential for growth, and honestly they go hand in hand. If I take about how I truly feel I would be labeled as crazy. But there is an intense powerful energy inside of me that I can use to express my skill and make effeicient changes in the world that benefit to what I want my life to be.

These are just a few quotes from OpenStrife's blog which clearly indicate the manic state of mind that he has been in at certain points. I think it is important to point out that he is obviously rapidly cycling between mood states; much like how someone who is bipolar would when taking certain psychiatric medications. Thus we can be certain that this is not a stable state of mind that has been achieved, and in all probability fluctuates in correlation with the consumption of the piracetam mega-doses.

OpenStrife you're taking it every two hours, how is it not obvious that you're clearly just sustaining an altered mood state; not as you delusionally believe, progressing down some path of supreme power (or whatever nonsense your end goal is). What exactly is this 'power' you believe your meditations are giving you?

You're also rapidly increasing the dosage of piracetam, another obvious sign that you're just trying to sustain this mania with escalating doses of the causative substance. Not getting the euphoric feeling of grandiosity any more?

My last point is this: You claim your thoughts are at a godly level, made of pure gold and pure power, yet you fail at even simple spelling; your grammar and syntax are also poor. Anyone can make mistakes when typing, but this is a consistent thing. I also see no real indications in the content of your posts that you are truly functioning at a higher intellectual level. If anything a lot of the content of your blog is actually rather puerile and grossly pretentious.

From my own extensive experience with the manic psyche, I can at least say that when I was hypermanic my use of the English language became almost poetic. But as a point of comparison that is far too subjective to mean anything.

[OpenStrife]

Animal, mastery of a mental state does not happen over night with meditation.

I wake up in the morning, nearly 12-15 hours after my last previous dosing, and I can still vividly feel the effects of Piracetam in my mind.

Primarily, the initial effects of the Piracetam induced energy boost drop dramatically as I get into my meditation, and this is a result of a calming of mind and a slowing down of metabolism - this does not mean the effects are not there. I can clearly feel them, and they are abundantly active and never reduced, my emotional state is just more under control after meditation sessions.

Are the effects consistent? Yes. Is my 'mood' state consistent, in terms of energy levels? No, primarily because of the effects that meditation has on the mind. Meditation has an energizing effect in and of itself, but is paired with a calmness of high self-control. This can easily be mistaken for 'fluctuating moods'.

But who am I to tell you what I am experiencing? You've clearly already taken a strong opinion of me and what I am experiencing.

Btw, a side effect of the meditation can actually cause a reduction in my ability to spell. Monks who stay in meditation for many hours often lose their ability to speak temporarily and have to relearn it almost, which can happen pretty quickly. This is because the brain becomes so incredibly focused on the task at hand that it ends up taking away energy from other neurological faculties. This eventually goes away after some months though as the rest of the brain catches up with the increased energy demand that it is taxed with.

Every point you have addressed has been explained simply due to the effects of meditation.

I can tell you one thing though, on the one day I didn't meditate, and I was out driving around all day.... my 'mood' as you describe it, was entirely consistent. In the sense of, my behavior was unchanging, the amount of energy I have was constant, etc, essentially the opposite of what you described it to be, but this was only 1 day. You are comparing days upon days of meditation. Meditation is all about changing the mind and reshaping how it operates, so of course there are going to be 'fluctuations' observed.

The manic state is merely due to the amount of energy. When meditated enough, that 'manic' quality will disappear, but the energy will remain, internally, just under more control, due to the meditation. Meditation is all about self control. You may be observing a 'fluctuation' but ever stopped to think that maybe that fluctuation was a result of the rapid mind-state changing effects of meditation, and that in fact the effects of the substance are remaining constant, but the thing that is fluctuating is my control over them?

Meditation is not a one time thing. You don't meditate and gain instant control over the mind in a single night. It takes many days of going up and down hills of high control and low control, and that is exactly what you are observing. I can assure you that the energizing effects and mental boosting effects of the Piracetam are not decreasing in intensity. And back to the spelling.... because Piracetam is giving my brain the ability to work harder, things such as my spelling are suffering because I am able to push my brain to a point of focus that the rest of my brain is not acclimated for naturally, ultimately causing other parts of my brain to suffer as I focus so intensely... but as said before, the brain will catch up.

I do not note this in my blog, but frequently when I come out of my meditations, my mind is so incredibly focused on the action(or thought) at hand, that I end up walking into walls and knocking objects over, in general becoming very clumsy. My focus is incredibly boosted to the point of taking energy away from those essential faculties.

---

And whatever the explanations for everything is, only one thing matters at this point. Piracetam is doing what I intended it to do. I am progressing in my meditation abilities at an insanely rapid pace, MUCH faster than any time I was ever not on a nootropic. And this was the ultimate point of my experiment. My theory held to be true so far. When I reach my desired point in my meditation abilities, then that is when I will begin weening myself off Piracetam. So far, the speed at which I am progressing in my meditations is NOT decreasing, this means the piracetam is constantly at work.

I only wish I had a better way to describe the meditative techniques I learn in my practice to you all in a way for you to understand. The reason I really can't is because it would be like.....trying to translate an alien language into english when english does not have the proper words to describe the exact nature of the things I am experiencing. It's as if you tried to go explain to a person who has never walked before how to walk... you can't do it, you don't think about it, you simply do it.

Animal, if you didn't want to read this long-ass post... the point I am getting at is, when it comes to describing the nature of the mind, things are a lot more complex than simply manic, or hypermanic. You may or may not agree with anything of the above that I said, but a result of my meditation is an intense analysis and awareness of mental functioning and an increased understand to why it is doing what it is doing... and yeah, I know what you're going to say... this is just a manic delusion of mine -.-.

Edited by OpenStrife, 21 July 2012 - 05:02 AM.

[OpenStrife]

I got my hands on some Shrooms and Monday I plan on testing out the nootropic effects of ultra low shroom doses (.25g-.5g). All I have read are good things about super low shroom doses.

The last time I tripped was with around 4g at a party, it was it's own experience, to say the least... but I feel during that time period my brain made a LOT of changes. Whatever thoughts and feelings I focused on primarily, or whatever attitude I had during the experience, persisted for at least a month after the fact. Though at that dose, there was a lot of delusion.

My theory is in small doses, shrooms can boost plasticity to a great degree, without causing impairment. I think the impairing doses are what cause people to get a little bit on the crazy side from tripping shrooms alot... but if one takes an amount that doesn't significantly impair ones attitude/mental state, but rather boost it to the point of not going too far away from the norm, then the potential for plasticity benefits while on that dose will be for the most part, significantly beneficial.

For the most part I'm done with my days of heavy drug tripping, at least in psychedelic doses, but I feel it's worth a shot trying it in a nootropic low dose.

I will be doing this WITH my current normal regimen. Most reports I read have been nothing but people saying their thoughts become very solid at low doses of shrooms, but not delusional like at high doses, and their short term memory is significantly increased.

I am also significantly interested in it's effects on meditation

Edited by OpenStrife, 21 July 2012 - 06:50 PM.

[OpenStrife]

Hey guys I may actually take a break from all this for a while to have some time to absorb my experiences with megadoses of Piracetam. There are many ideas in my head that have changed my life, in positive, super productive ways. It's looking very bright

[electricmonk500]

And I have no problem talking about this... as meditation is a core part of my experiment here.

Well, I only meant I didn't want to turn this into a philosophical discussion, this is kind of on the borderline, but I suppose if you don't mind, why not?

I agree with you that mind and ego are very important. The ego has a great deal of utility and anyone who wants to function properly in day to day life will make great use of their ego, and that does not exclude those with deep meditation practices. For lack of a better description, the ego is actually never eliminated, it is just not taken so seriously, and thoughts that are produced by the function of the ego are quickly recognized as such and then can be considered from a larger perspective. But ultimately the ego has no formidable substance in reality, it is a very small thing, and it is ultimately silly to concentrate a great deal of energy into developing the ego beyond a basic functional level. It is when the ego is at this most basic functional level that it is the most efficacious, like a computer program that has been written with the mathematically fewest lines of code possible. People who focus on the total elimination of the ego are delusional and would likely function very poorly when interacting with other people if it were even possible for them to succeed in totally removing their ego.

Maybe on the surface the mind and the ego are 'nothing but desire' but then there are certain desires that make little sense but to fulfill, except under the most extreme circumstances. These are things like the desire to eat, sleep, shit and piss. But maybe let me second guess myself here and say that to call the things I have just mentioned 'desires' is a kind of a misnomer. Does an ant 'desire' to find food or is it just the way the ant functions? Does an amoeba? Does a human? It is just the way a living thing interacts with its environment, and even this distinction between the living thing and its environment is not real, they flow into each other endlessly. The desire that is best eliminated are those desires that have no relation to a living thing's interaction in its environment. While we might be tempted to extend this notion of environment specifically for humans, because we create such complex societies, technologies etc. for ourselves, I think it is easiest and most wise to concern oneself most with the eating, sleeping, shitting and pissing and then to have a lesser concern for all the rest, when it does become appropriate to be concerned by them.

[Isochroma]

Excellent log!

Your dosing is even above mine: 5g/3h x 6 = 30g total PIR/day.

Effective life is 3h so there's no point in cramming doses closer than that.

MSG will significantly enhance its effects. Be sure to take a decent dose: I eat 2.5g MSG per 5g PIR.

Glutamate is a macronutrient and perfectly safe to take at such doses. The condiment label recommends 1/4 tsp. for livening up foods - that's several grams.

[Introspecta]

I'm glad this was bumped I don't remember ever reading it. While some of it seems crazy i'm big into meditation and find Piracetam to help assist it. Piracetam is one strange drug. Sometimes I wonder if all this time if I'm doing damage to myself because at times it seems to good to be true. In 4-5 years i've never really had any adverse effects though so its hard to say.

[unregistered_user]

The thing is, hypomania and especially mania, make you believe that you're a genius, without that actually being the case quantitatively. So you'll forgive me if your claims of higher mental functioning are dismissed as the typical grandiosity characteristic of most substance abusing hypomanics. Your paranoia about 'exposing too much information' is also highly typical.

I mean reading this sentence "I have already cultivated, over 6 perfect scenarios for me to live on my own and easily make in excess of $300,000 a year, while barley leaving my house." I had to laugh, it could have come out of a 'psychologists handbook on recognising forms of mania' it's that ridiculously trite.

Sure, the manic temperament has been linked with genius, but only when it occurs naturally, usually as a symptom of bipolar disorder. Plus these people begin achieving when they are quite young, it's not something that can be switched on and off. When it is substance induced, there is actually a negative correlation with achievement. The problem is that it's impossible to sustain, and often the user will be so terrified of coming down that they'll use the substance in excess; triggering full mania and often hospitalisation.


Piracetam's mechanism for instigating mania in certain individuals is actually rather simple, it's got nothing to do with some super enhancement of mental faculties. As soon as you stop 'megadosing' the racetams, you'll crash; no matter how much 'power' you believe your meditation is giving you lol.

To me you're nothing but another substance abuser chasing mania, which unfortunately seems far too common on this forum and is often actively encouraged.

I was hoping you would come in here and post this. You have been reliably pointing out manic behavior on this board for a long time and I couldn't agree more with your assessment.