3585 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

I am going the "low tech" Turnbuckle route with occasional hand shaking to encourage mixing.

I suppose it's appropriate that the Turnbuckle name is now associated with "low tech."

[mpe]

Turnbuckle, I wouldn't be worried about being low tech, as long as it works.
I was thinking of doing the same.
How many grams per liter ?

[Metrodorus]

I don't think fullerene acts primarily through mitoneogenesis, if at all.

Rather,akin to methylene blue, I suspect it acts directly on the electron transport chain within the mitochondria, possibly reducing / eliminating electron transport bottlenecks that occur along the chain.

Methylene blue acts on complex 4.

I also suspect the effects of dosing on fullerene in olive oil would be rapid.

Low level chronic dosing will lead to a gradual buildup of fullerene, until excretion/absorption are in equilibrium, as it takes " a few tens of hours" to be eliminated.

One study found this for one particular fullerene complex:
We also found that C₃ treatment of Sod2^−/− mice, which lack expression of mitochondrial manganese superoxide dismutase (MnSOD), increased their life span by 300%. These data, coupled with evidence thatC₃ localizes to mitochondria, suggest that C₃ functionally replaces MnSOD, acting as a biologically effective SOD mimetic. http://www.sciencedi...891584904005416

[Metrodorus]

Virgin Olive Oil purity - there is a problem in Europe with olive oil purity - many samples have shown olive oil to be 'cut' with other oils - hazelnut oil being a favourite. Just something to be aware of......

http://www.newyorker...om-mueller.html

[Turnbuckle]

I don't think fullerene acts primarily through mitoneogenesis, if at all.

Rather,akin to methylene blue, I suspect it acts directly on the electron transport chain within the mitochondria, possibly reducing / eliminating electron transport bottlenecks that occur along the chain.

Methylene blue acts on complex 4.

Speaking of methylene blue, I tried 1 mg in water this morning--along with 10 mg C60 in oil--to see if there was any synergy for running. Nope. Could be a coincidence, but I had all sorts of ankle and calf and thigh pains that discouraged me from running at all.

[rwac]

Speaking of methylene blue, I tried 1 mg in water this morning--along with 10 mg C60 in oil--to see if there was any synergy for running. Nope. Could be a coincidence, but I had all sorts of ankle and calf and thigh pains that discouraged me from running at all.

Just FYI, 1 mg of Methylene Blue is a lot. Most people start with much less.

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle, I wouldn't be worried about being low tech, as long as it works.
I was thinking of doing the same.
How many grams per liter ?

I used .65 g/l. Eventually I did buy a magnetic stirrer and a filter and I have a centrifuge on order. Probably it's a waste of money since I took the stuff already and am now immortal.

[Turnbuckle]

Speaking of methylene blue, I tried 1 mg in water this morning--along with 10 mg C60 in oil--to see if there was any synergy for running. Nope. Could be a coincidence, but I had all sorts of ankle and calf and thigh pains that discouraged me from running at all.

Just FYI, 1 mg of Methylene Blue is a lot. Most people start with much less.

I'd tried MB before, like 100 mg, and I'd say that is indeed too much.

[Krell]

Here are some pictures of my 500ml of Bertolli Extra Light Olive Oil + 0.40 grams of SES C60 over 9 days of hand shaking

 Start May 9 just after shaking.JPG   158.71KB   27 downloads  May 10 just after shaking.JPG   155.35KB   27 downloads  May 18 without shaking.JPG   74.97KB   22 downloads  May 18 just after shaking.JPG   92.51KB   18 downloads

You can see the particles in these pictures. It only takes a minute or so after shaking for the particles to settle out.

I wonder if grinding up the C60 powder would speed things up?

Edited by Krell, 18 May 2012 - 10:57 PM.

[Metrodorus]

Remember methylene blue is hormetic - at doses above 100 nanomoles per mL of blood plasma concentration,it has the opposite effect. Dosages of MB need to be low.

Edited by Metrodorus, 18 May 2012 - 11:01 PM.

[Krell]

I am training for my annual 5k road race on June 2. Since I have about 10 years of race history and this race is electronically timed, I am thinking about using it to test C60/OI.

My 500ml of Bertolli Extra Light Olive Oil + 0.40 grams of SES C60 has been mixing for 8 days, so it should be ready in time for the race.

I am going the "low tech" Turnbuckle route with occasional hand shaking to encourage mixing.

Thanks for posting. I think the light olive oil is a good choice in this case because you can evaluate colors a lot easier. What does it look like? Are all the solids dissolved? You might want to start dosing soon in order to evaluate mitochondrial biogenesis. I don't think that would happen overnight. I don't really know what will happen to your athletic performance. You might get a boost, or it might be that if you're already in good shape, you won't notice that much. Maybe your recovery will be accelerated. Or not... Keep us posted on your dosage schedule and observations.

My 2 weeks of mixing will be up on May 23, so I will have 10 days till my race to dose with C60.

Since I do a training run every couple of days, I should be able to test for the "Turnbuckle Effect"
on May 23 or 24. I plan to take my first dose, wait 4 hours, and then do my training run. I time
myself on these runs and I can generally predict within a few seconds out of 20 minutes what
my time will be. My run today was within 1 second of my run 2 days ago.

BTW, the only thing I have found to make a significant improvement on my race time is beetroot juice. Last
year I drank 16oz of beetroot juice daily for 6 days before the race and my time was radically improved.
http://www.longecity...e__hl__beetroot

[carbon]

Wow this forum is awesome! I was really excited about carbon 60 olive oil and I wanted to start a forum to talk about it, but you guys beat me to it. If you want to check out the site that I made you can visit it at carbon60oliveoil.com of course, I just started it and it is really boring compared to this forum, but it is dedicated to carbon 60 olive oil. If anyone wants some I should have my first batch ready the first week of June.

[niner]

Speaking of methylene blue, I tried 1 mg in water this morning--along with 10 mg C60 in oil--to see if there was any synergy for running. Nope. Could be a coincidence, but I had all sorts of ankle and calf and thigh pains that discouraged me from running at all.

Just FYI, 1 mg of Methylene Blue is a lot. Most people start with much less.

I'd tried MB before, like 100 mg, and I'd say that is indeed too much.

At 100mg, you might be getting into the realm of MAO inhibition. Perhaps that's what made it feel like too much? But that might be what it takes to get the electronic effect at the mitochondria. One milligram will not be enough for that. Maybe a few tens of milligrams, at minimum. Here at Longecity, there have been a lot of people who claimed to feel all manner of effects from "homeopathic" doses in the microgram range. After having experimented with a range of doses between 60 ug and several milligrams, I am chalking those reports up to placebo effect. Either that or I (and certainly some others) have funny biochemistry, or just don't "get it"...

[HappyPhysicist]

Here are some pictures of my 500ml of Bertolli Extra Light Olive Oil + 0.40 grams of SES C60 over 9 days of hand shaking

 Start May 9 just after shaking.JPG   158.71KB   27 downloads  May 10 just after shaking.JPG   155.35KB   27 downloads  May 18 without shaking.JPG   74.97KB   22 downloads  May 18 just after shaking.JPG   92.51KB   18 downloads

You can see the particles in these pictures. It only takes a minute or so after shaking for the particles to settle out.

I wonder if grinding up the C60 powder would speed things up?

Krell,

Nice photos!

I would invest in a magnetic stirrer. I have a test tube of olive oil and MCT C60 I have been hand shaking once a day for a couple of weeks (olive oil) and I cannot get rid of the particles. On the other hand the batches with the magnetic stirrer had no sign of particles after 24 hours. You can even just use the original bottle of olive oil. Drop in the stir rod and place the bottle on the stirrer. Then pull it out with a strong magnet along the side.

You can get them on ebay for $50 or amazon for $80.

Thanks,

HP

[niner]

Remember methylene blue is hormetic - at doses above 100 nanomoles per mL of blood plasma concentration,it has the opposite effect. Dosages of MB need to be low.

Human pharmacokinetic measurements showed that a 50mg IV dose of MB produced a peak plasma level of 1.6 uM. That's about one sixtieth of 100 nm/mL. Thus you'd need an IV injection of ~three grams to hit that level. Where did you hear that MB was hormetic? I don't recall anything about that...

The typical dose of MB for Alzheimer's is 60mg three times a day. That's in the ballpark of the dose that Atamna used in his work that got the whole MB craze going. Note that mg = milligram. That's one thousand times larger than the 60 microgram so-called "nootropic dose" that someone pulled out of a cocked hat, but which went on to be some sort of "internet standard" around these parts.

[HappyPhysicist]

Virgin Olive Oil purity - there is a problem in Europe with olive oil purity - many samples have shown olive oil to be 'cut' with other oils - hazelnut oil being a favourite. Just something to be aware of......

http://www.newyorker...om-mueller.html

Thanks for this. Very interesting. I didn't even realize it but I have a gourmet olive oil shop just a mile from me.

[niner]

Virgin Olive Oil purity - there is a problem in Europe with olive oil purity - many samples have shown olive oil to be 'cut' with other oils - hazelnut oil being a favourite. Just something to be aware of......

http://www.newyorker...om-mueller.html

Thanks for this. Very interesting. I didn't even realize it but I have a gourmet olive oil shop just a mile from me.

As I understand it, olive oil fakery is a problem worldwide, not just in Europe. Also, oil that is poorly stored or just plain too old can degrade and become oxidized, losing the health-promoting qualities it might have once had.

There is a great olive oil importer in the SF Bay Area called Veronica Foods. They are responsible and do things right. They supply lots of specialty shops around the country, and have their own store in Berkeley. They recently opened a website for internet sales. Have a look at their chemistry page. It covers the important aspects of olive oil quality.

Now, all that having been said, I don't think it's particularly relevant to C60. C60 appears to dissolve in and presumably form adducts with a variety of oils, so I suspect that most any triglyceride of reasonable chain length would work. All things being equal, I'd still prefer a good olive oil to some crappy McDonald's fryer toxic waste as my C60 vehicle of choice, but I think the fry oil would still work.

[HappyPhysicist]

Like I said you may end up drinking a lot so it better be good. My goal is to hit 1.7 mg/kg which would be about 250 ml/day or more if it's more diluted.

[carbon]

Here is a link to an Allometric Scaling Calculator. It will calculate a comparable dosage using the mass of the rat (about 0.5 kg) and your mass. For me (mass 2 = 90kg) the dosage would be 39.3 mg or about 50 ml of .8 mg/ml C60 O.O.
http://home.fuse.net.../allometry.html

Also, if anyone is interested, check out a website that I put online a few hours ago that is dedicated to carbon 60 olive oil. it's still really boring because nobody has started posting there yet, but I hope some of you guys will check it out and post some comments. It would be cool if we could condense some of this information.
www.carbon60oliveoil.com

[Turnbuckle]

Here is a link to an Allometric Scaling Calculator. It will calculate a comparable dosage using the mass of the rat (about 0.5 kg) and your mass. For me (mass 2 = 90kg) the dosage would be 39.3 mg or about 50 ml of .8 mg/ml C60 O.O.

The rat dose and dose schedule were arbitrary. It wasn't picked for longevity or for the treatment of any particular disease.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 19 May 2012 - 01:13 PM.

[Metrodorus]

An excellent synopsis of methylene blue is here,including explanation of its hormetic nature.
http://www.dose-resp...nzalez Lima.pdf

I think a daily dose of fullerene would only need to be in the 2 to 5mg range, as it takes tens of days to clear from the system, and the rats in the study were not dosed daily. Maybe even a lower daily dose of 1mg would suffice.

[Turnbuckle]

An excellent synopsis of methylene blue is here,including explanation of its hormetic nature.
http://www.dose-resp...nzalez Lima.pdf

Interesting. For spontaneous rat locomotion, the best MB dose was 4mg/kg, which would correspond to 90 mg or so for a human by 3/4 power scaling. But too little (as in my 1mg running trial) or too much, and it's worse than not taking it at all.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 19 May 2012 - 01:44 PM.

[manic_racetam]

Here is a link to an Allometric Scaling Calculator. It will calculate a comparable dosage using the mass of the rat (about 0.5 kg) and your mass. For me (mass 2 = 90kg) the dosage would be 39.3 mg or about 50 ml of .8 mg/ml C60 O.O.

The rat dose and dose schedule were arbitrary. It wasn't picked for longevity or for the treatment of any particular disease.

Out of curiosity, what dose are you planning on using eventually (or currently using) and what are the factors that decide those doses for you?

[Turnbuckle]

Here is a link to an Allometric Scaling Calculator. It will calculate a comparable dosage using the mass of the rat (about 0.5 kg) and your mass. For me (mass 2 = 90kg) the dosage would be 39.3 mg or about 50 ml of .8 mg/ml C60 O.O.

The rat dose and dose schedule were arbitrary. It wasn't picked for longevity or for the treatment of any particular disease.

Out of curiosity, what dose are you planning on using eventually (or currently using) and what are the factors that decide those doses for you?

I used a 2 mg dose initially, this being a small fraction of the allometrically scaled rat dose, and since I saw an amazing benefit within hours I continued that dose for a few days. As the effect seemed to have plateaued and there were no apparent side effects, I increased it to 20 mg and got no further benefit. I stopped altogether after ten days and the benefits persisted. Another three day trial at 10 mg showed no further obvious benefit. My conclusion then was that the effects were realized with just a few small doses, maybe just one or two. Though I still find that hard to believe, it's consistent with an epigenetic resetting of the mitochondria.

[Allen Walters]

Could I use pure safflower oil instead of olive oil? Wikipedia says it's very close to olive oil. I got some from the store and It has almost no taste, thinner than olive oil and crystal clear. I consume two shots of grape seed oil a day when I take DIM and it has very little taste, but the sufflower oil has less taste than it does.

[Metrodorus]

Here is a link to an Allometric Scaling Calculator. It will calculate a comparable dosage using the mass of the rat (about 0.5 kg) and your mass. For me (mass 2 = 90kg) the dosage would be 39.3 mg or about 50 ml of .8 mg/ml C60 O.O.

The rat dose and dose schedule were arbitrary. It wasn't picked for longevity or for the treatment of any particular disease.

Out of curiosity, what dose are you planning on using eventually (or currently using) and what are the factors that decide those doses for you?

I used a 2 mg dose initially, this being a small fraction of the allometrically scaled rat dose, and since I saw an amazing benefit within hours I continued that dose for a few days.

Remember,the fullerene accumulates,and takes tens of days to clear. Your daily 2mg doses would have rapidly risen to approximate equivalent of the weekly rat dosage.
The rats were only being dosed fortnightly after a couple of weeks, no? So perhaps chronic dosing needs to only be in the 0.5 to 0.25mg range per day,if not less.

I suspect that 1 -2mg per day dosage is adequate, due to the bio-accumulation, for the initial cycle of dosing.

Edited by Metrodorus, 20 May 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Curcumin is anti-Estrogenic if it affects it at all.

I am posting this from my phone, but please google "curcumin anti-estrogenic"

Cheers
A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197

[HappyPhysicist]

Just an update. MCT does not seem like an ideal solvent. I tried a 0.5 g/L concentration. After 4 days of stirring there was a significant amount of undissolved C60. With olive oil in contrast I could not see one spec of undissolved C60 for the same concentration.  C60 MCT.jpg   68.49KB   12 downloads

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 21 May 2012 - 08:29 PM.

[Metrodorus]

I would avoid using other solvents - even if they do dissolve the fullerene more efficiently - as the fullerene does not only dissolve, it reacts with the olive oil, changing from purple to a ruby red colour over time. As Cataldo notes, this reaction cannot be prevented, even at low temperatures, it takes place.

The rat study used oil that has been sitting in the dark for months - and I suspect it is the reaction products that gave the remarkable results: the fatty acid-fullerene conjugates.

[Turnbuckle]

Just an update. MCT does not seem like an ideal solvent. I tried a 0.5 g/L concentration. After 4 days of stirring there was a significant amount of undissolved C60. With olive oil in contrast I could not see one spec of undissolved C60 for the same concentration.  C60 MCT.jpg   68.49KB   12 downloads

The ideal solvent might depend on the disease you're treating. If it's general aging, olive oil might be fine, but if it's a particular cell type, then an oil with an affinity for that cell type might be better--i.e., THC for neurons.