3585 replies to this topic

[hav]

Got a chance to do a little searching of papers about chitosan and purslane for clues on how they might interact with C60 in oil.

This study suggests chitosan might indeed latch onto fats, oils, and lipids generally and inhibit digestion and cause it to be excreted:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22484940

A significant negative correlation was observed between the fecal excretion rates of BPA and DEHP and apparent fat digestibility. Furthermore, the CHI group showed not only increased but also accelerated BPA excretion into the feces. In conclusion, we found that that chitosan intake significantly increased the fecal excretion of BPA, DEHP, and fat, suggesting that it might be useful for reducing adverse effects caused by lipophilic xenobiotics.

[full text link]

I take about 750 mg of chitosan twice daily with my astragalus/purslane stack. I'm thinking of either dropping it based on the above study or maybe moving it to different part of the day if the chitosan effect dissipates quickly enough. I've been doing that stack for a few years now but never dug into purslane very deeply until now. Here's a paper I just read on purslane that was kind of an eye opener for me:

Antioxidant effect of purslane and its mechanism of action

I take perslane for telomerase activation. I didn't even realize it was an antioxidant with SOD impact. Or that it was high in polyunsaturated fats including linolenic, linoleic, and omega-3 fatty acids. Suggesting it might bond well with C60 but get eliminated by chitosan. I'm thinking if I don't drop chitosan, maybe I should move the purslane from my astragalus stack to my resveratrol stack which I cycle weekly.

I was thinking of mixing purslane into the olive oil with C60 until I read this in an interesting paper on the Chemistry and Quality of Olive Oil:

Although linolenic acid is considered to be nutritionally beneficial, it is a polyunsaturated acid with three double bonds. As a result, it is particularly unstable and susceptible to oxidation (rancidity).

So I think it might be a better idea to keep my purslane out of the olive oil. What niner and maxwatt said...

Howard

Edited by hav, 24 May 2012 - 04:56 PM.

[malbecman]

I seriously wish this forum offered the emoticon which shows the person munching on some popcorn and watching the thread.




This is one of the more interesting threads on this forum, IMHO..........

[CognitionCoefficient]

About your first thought... Based on a discussion between niner and Turnbuckle, I'd been thinking that the C60s afforded greater (and longer lasting?) affinity to mitochondria. I've also imagined that the study solvent provided "the potion" with an affinity for the cell types that Olive Oil had an affinity for. That's how I've imagined it. I have no idea if this is a "correct" way to imagine it.

There's nothing about naked C60 that would target it to mitochondria specifically; it's exceptionally hydrophobic, so it would be expected to partition into lipids wherever it encountered them. The (covalent) addition of a long chain fatty acid, on the other hand, would create a molecule that would have an affinity for lipid membranes in general, of which the mitochondrial membrane would be an example. I suspect that the C60 that finds its way into non-mitochondrial membranes isn't hurting anything, and may be helping some, but the fraction that gets into mitochondrial membranes is what's doing the magic, because it's close to the source of damaging superoxide ions.

But given this imagining... I've been thinking about a mix of oils. Not MCT... I've been saying in my posts that, if the solvent is important at all, then it makes sense to use a 5-Lipoxygenase Inflammatory Cascade Inhibitor. The most profound of these inhibitors have been shown to have (de)methylating effects. (And, in fact, I'm pretty sure I experienced such an effect using very high dose Boswellia a few years ago.)

So that means Omega 3 (EPA/DHA), Boswellia, etc. So how about 25% Olive Oil, 25% EPA/DHA, and fill in the rest. Alternate the potion taken on different dose days.

I'd really advise against using EPA/DHA. Highly unsaturated fatty acids like that are extremely oxidation prone, and have been shown to result in an increase in lipid peroxidation in the body. Other vegetable oils could be used if one is so inclined, though given the quantities of oil involved, I would want to stay away from omega 6 varieties. Personally, I'd stick with olive oil, which has very good epidemiology associated with it.

Here's a question for the more informed science types.... How might the "the potion" be effected if an additional substance was added to it. Say, Curcumin, Boswellia (AKBA), or Resveratrol Powder added to the Olive Oil in addition to the Fullerenes?

While some of those substances might be useful as co-supplements, I can't think of any way in which they would help if they were added directly to the mixture. With some of them, you might run into solubility problems, or possibly even a chemical interference of some sort.

Given our ignorance of the mechanism through which olive oil and C60 increased the lifespan of studied mice, I'd have to echo niner and others' caution. Self-testing using very preliminary medical research, and without the rigours of a control trial, might prove a positive expected value exercise for some individuals here. However, deviating from the study protocol diminishes this value by reducing the relevance of the research findings to the treatment regimen employed.

To niner's point, I would also want to minimize potential interactions if I were ingesting other medicinal substances (i.e. trim my stack).

[Turnbuckle]

Given our ignorance of the mechanism through which olive oil and C60 increased the lifespan of studied mice, I'd have to echo niner and others' caution. Self-testing using very preliminary medical research, and without the rigours of a control trial, might prove a positive expected value exercise for some individuals here. However, deviating from the study protocol diminishes this value by reducing the relevance of the research findings to the treatment regimen employed.

Exactly. There's presently only one person reporting positive results (me), and you can draw any curve you want through one data point.

[HighDesertWizard]

... chastened about getting off track. Points all taken. Thanks for the feedback. I've got time before I begin to think through what Olive Oil to use. Thoughts?

[Junk Master]

Junk Master - you are throwing curve balls here.

We have a basic assumption that the lipofullerene complex is acting as a SOD mimetic, or perhaps it is simply physically surrounding and protecting the complexes in the mitochondria, preventing peroxidation.

The end result is similar - prevention of oxidative stress within the mitochondria.

Just restless without more data points.

Let's face it, as your summary shows, we really don't have a clue how the lipofullerene complex is acting.

Getting back on track, shouldn't the focus here be more on potential toxicity, health risks?

It's pretty clear there is interest in sharing more "data points" without waiting for a more developed theory of the mechanism of action.

[niner]

Let's face it, as your summary shows, we really don't have a clue how the lipofullerene complex is acting.

Getting back on track, shouldn't the focus here be more on potential toxicity, health risks?

It's pretty clear there is interest in sharing more "data points" without waiting for a more developed theory of the mechanism of action.

The problem is that no matter how many people we have, we still don't have any data. Turnbuckle apparently had some sort of mitochondrial dysfunction, from the sound of it, and he saw a big improvement, similar in at least some ways to his experience with PQQ. We all hope that Happy Physicist will see a slowing of disease progression, which would be a notable outcome. As for the rest of us, suppose that our rate of aging were to slow by a factor of two. How would we know? What would that feel like? I don't think it would feel like much of anything. Maybe we would notice faster recovery in the gym, or an enhanced ability to drink cocktails made with dry cleaning fluid, but we aren't measuring anything. Mostly we are just basing the success of the experiment on how we feel. The trouble with this is that the expected outcome is "nothing bad happening", and that doesn't feel like anything out of the ordinary.

I wouldn't say that we don't have a clue how this works. I'd say there are some hints. We know it's redox active, and that fullerene carboxylic acid compounds can act as SOD mimetics, turning superoxide radical anion into oxygen and H2O2. We know that superoxide is generated in mitochondria, and it's at least reasonable to suspect that a fullerene fatty acid adduct could become part of the mitochondrial membrane. We still need a lot more information, and I don't doubt that it will come in the fullness of time, but none of us really wants to wait for all the knowledge to emerge.

Fullerene tox has been explored in some depth. I've not seen anything that looked scary. Some of the early suggestions of toxicity are now being blamed on the solvent used rather than the fullerenes themselves.

Edited by niner, 25 May 2012 - 12:29 AM.

[Junk Master]

Fullerene tox has been explored in some depth. I've not seen anything that looked scary. Some of the early suggestions of toxicity are now being blamed on the solvent used rather than the fullerenes themselves.

Excellent post.

What about concerns with "clumping?"

How about measurable, quantifiable increases in endurance/Vo2 max in trained, healthy athletes?

[JohnD60]

My magnetic stirrer/mixer arrived today. It does not work at all. No not buy a Jintan Prius magnetic stirrer.
I found a lab supply store 10 minutes from me. Their website indicates they sell a similar stirrer for $100. Doh!

[JohnD60]

I know fullerenes are sexy, but what about olive oil/activated charcoal as is used in home hemorrhoid remedies?

I don't think it is a stretch to assume that the positive effects of C60, if any, are tied to it's relative inertness. Activated charchoal is far from inert.

[amark]

In reality I was already taking olive oil (plus DHA and EPA) every day, and the olive oil dose with the C60 solute is actually much less. As I've only been taking it a few days, I'm a bit reluctant to mention the results, but what the hell. Just take this with a saltshaker of salt. I'm just one person with a certain medical history, and these are essentially single data points...

Background. I'm 60 years old and fifteen to twenty pounds above my ideal weight. Ten years ago I could run three miles to the gym, work out for two hours, and run back. Then I made the mistake of taking statins for high cholesterol. After some months I realized I was being chemically poisoned, so I stopped. My recovery was slow and incomplete. Years later I still suffered from it, but PQQ was a big help. The effects were noticeable in two days, and reached a plateau in one week. Still, I couldn't run more than 100 yards without feeling I'd run a marathon. I couldn't get enough air. Residual mitochondrial damage, in my thinking.

Then, four hours after ingesting 2 mg of C60 in olive oil, I went running. And kept on running. My god, I could breathe! The next day was the same. I ran a mile and a half, and I hadn't done that since before Crestor. The effects seemed too quick to be the result of mitochondrial biogenesis, but it must have something to do with the mitochondria.

Cholesterol:

All the cholesterol propaganda pushed by drug companies is what almost killed me to begin with, but I still believe there's some truth to it, even if the pharmaceutical solution is worse than the problem. My untreated total cholesterol was 270, which was reduced to 220-230 by Welchol--a bile acid sequesterant and the only hypercholesterolemia drug I can tolerate without side effects. I use a home cholesterol test to monitor it, and this has tracked the lab test very nicely. Both were 228 last time, and this morning it tested 163. Nothing I've tried other than pharmaceuticals has budged the numbers lower than 220, so I think something was wrong with the test. I'll buy a another in a few days and try this again. I simply don't believe the result. If it had such an effect, wouldn't there already be research on it?

Alcohol:

Over the years I've grown intolerant of the stuff. One glass and I'd wake up feeling as if I'd drunk the entire bottle. But with 2 mg/day of C60, that was no longer the case. Three glasses and I felt nothing the next day.

Dog:

I have a middle aged dog that now has trouble getting into the back of my car, so I gave him same dose I gave myself, and I haven't had to help him since. Too soon to tell for sure, though, and I wouldn't mention it except it seems to fit with everything else.

Ahh Crestor. I am of a similar age and now I take lovastatin without any obvious negative affects. I tried Crestor and had the worst side effects. I was in a parking lot and felt like I could not stand up. I called the Dr office and they said stop taking it then and now. I am guessing that you had a lesser but similar reaction to that drug. I do take large amounts of resveratrol now and I find I can exercise easily. Best of luck.

[Logic]

Yesterday, not wanting to waste my MCT/C60 I added about 100 mL of it to my morning milkshake. Well I felt like crap all day long, fatigued and dull headache. I feel fine now. I don't know whether it was the C60 or just the MCT. I suppose I should find out by taking the same amount of MCT again but I'll forgo that experiment.

As has been pointed out MCT are metabolized differently from olive oil for instance. Perhaps the body is not happy when C60 is attempted to be smuggled in via this route.

Its just possible that what you experienced was a Herxheimer Reaction HappyPhysicist.
Perhaps, maybe, possibly the MCT oil, with dissolved C60, was killin of a virus??

http://www.healingna...es/coconut2.php

http://www.coconutdiet.com/viruses.htm

Edited by Logic, 25 May 2012 - 08:24 PM.

[carbon]

Hello all. Just an update on the carbon60oliveoil.com site. We've made a bunch of changes. Most notably, we are designing the site around rat pet owners. We scraped the idea of having a forum because you guys have such a great one here Instead we are focusing on producing C60 olive oil exactly as it was produced in the study, and offering it for sale to people who want to give it to their pet rats to copy the study. Larger bottles are available for people who want to do multiple rat tests. We are aiming to have our first batch available for purchase on Monday, June 4th. We are still designing the website, so feedback would be very helpful. Thanks!

[Metrodorus]

SES research - the company that supplied the fullerene used in the original rat study - sells fullerene at a very reasonable price - I can see no reason to purchase a tiny fraction of fullerene pre-mixed, when the raw product is so cheap. Even if you buy your own magnetic stirrer, high school quality centrifuge and filter, it will still be cheaper to DIY, as 1g of 99.9% purity fullerene is only 60 USD.

For locating products such as centrifuges, etc, btw, I recommend doing a google IMAGE search. This is generally more successful than a web search.

If you live in the UK, then " magnetic stirrer UK" would be the search string.


https://sesres.com/

Edited by Metrodorus, 25 May 2012 - 08:46 PM.

[carbon]

It's true. It's not too difficult to make, and some people want to make it themselves. Other people might not want to bother making it themselves if they can just buy a bottle, especially people who just want enough for their one pet rat. More options are better, right?

[HappyPhysicist]

I commend carbon for his entrepreneurial spirit. I think there are going to be plenty of people who would rather not buy a centrifuge and filter setup, let alone go through the trouble of actually doing the work. I have a cheap centrifuge that holds only 6 10 ml test tubes. It is a royal pain to go through this process.

[Junk Master]

I'll be buying a small amount to test on my aging Chesapeake Bay Retriever first, so I'm definitely interested in premixed. Plus, I can explain buying supplements to my wife, but how do I explain a centrifuge and test tubes?! Um, no honey, I'm not planning on manufacturing illicit substances, I just want to dose myself with fullerenes and turn into NANO MAN.

[carbon]

Hey thanks guys! It's also about the data. If we can get a lot of pet owners enrolled in an open source study, it will return information much faster than people sitting around asking each other if they feel old yet. 5 years from now, if there are a bunch of 7 year old rats, people will be demanding clinical trials. It's not as clean as a major research project, but it might be some of the first data to confirm the results. I want to make it so that people can enroll their rats in a study hosted at carbon60oliveoil.com

[HighDesertWizard]

I'll be buying a small amount to test on my aging Chesapeake Bay Retriever first, so I'm definitely interested in premixed. Plus, I can explain buying supplements to my wife, but how do I explain a centrifuge and test tubes?! Um, no honey, I'm not planning on manufacturing illicit substances, I just want to dose myself with fullerenes and turn into NANO MAN.,

I like hearing ideas helpful for convincing friends and loved ones that "no, I'm not crazy."

[HighDesertWizard]

Turnbuckle.... Did your doctors diagnose you as having Myasthenia gravis based on your statin use?

My reading of the literature says that's what you had that vanished... Right? Wrong?

I'm thinking through explanations based on my last serious post... Have you posted everything you've noticed that has changed? YOUR experience is the exoerience, so far, that any explanation must account for...

Thx

[carbon]

Oh, and of course there are the rats. I know it's not the focus of this forum, but people love their rats. It's really cool, actually. If you have a pet rat, C60 should almost double your pets lifespan. There is, after all, a published scientific study which shows that that is what happens.

[Junk Master]

Ok, I had to do it.



A very underrated Michael Jackson song for rat lovers.

[carbon]

Nice! 500 years from now we'll be saying "I remember when Michael Jackson was alive" and people who are only 200 will be like "Whoa, you're old."

[Metrodorus]

If you are actually going to use this on an animal, I would not bother with either filtration, or the centrifuge.

The researchers were taking these steps to remove all variables. As the toxicity is so low, and undissolved fullerene is poorly absorbed, the centrifuge and filtration steps for a real rat or dog are probably overkill.

Even for human consumption, a low-tech approach might be justified,given current knowledge of the toxicology.

Simply throw 1 gram of fullerene into a litre of high quality virgin olive oil, and shake daily. After two to three weeks allow to settle for a few days, and decant - or leave as is, and simply draw off what you need from the bottle with an eye- dropper type pipette.

How much fullerene will dissolve in a litre of olive oil appears to be quite variable, 1g/litre would probably work with most high quality oils,giving you approx 1mg per mL - easy to then make up your dosage.

Price of raw fullerene is $60 at 99.9% purity from the same supply commpany as cited in the rat study (SES)
Price of a litre of high quality organic extra-virgin olive oil is around $15 - 30

Price of 100mL of the pre-mixed solution ( at unspecified concentration and unspecified fullerene purity( or source) and unknown oil purity or source) is $128.00 + $11.35 Shipping

[Raphy]

This thread is awesome. Lots of hope here

My 2 weeks of mixing will be up on May 23, so I will have 10 days till my race to dose with C60.

Since I do a training run every couple of days, I should be able to test for the "Turnbuckle Effect"
on May 23 or 24. I plan to take my first dose, wait 4 hours, and then do my training run. I time
myself on these runs and I can generally predict within a few seconds out of 20 minutes what
my time will be. My run today was within 1 second of my run 2 days ago.

BTW, the only thing I have found to make a significant improvement on my race time is beetroot juice. Last
year I drank 16oz of beetroot juice daily for 6 days before the race and my time was radically improved.
http://www.longecity...e__hl__beetroot

So, did you test the product?

[niner]

How much fullerene will dissolve in a litre of olive oil appears to be quite variable, 1g/litre would probably work with most high quality oils,giving you approx 1mg per mL - easy to then make up your dosage.

That sounds a little high for cold unstirred olive oil, but if you heat the oil, it should enhance the rate of adduct formation.

[JohnD60]

I commend carbon for his entrepreneurial spirit. I think there are going to be plenty of people who would rather not buy a centrifuge and filter setup, let alone go through the trouble of actually doing the work. I have a cheap centrifuge that holds only 6 10 ml test tubes. It is a royal pain to go through this process.

I think I remember reading mid thread that you had problems filtering with .22 micron PVD(?) , very slow and it appeared to be going around the filter. What filtering are you using now?

[Krell]

This thread is awesome. Lots of hope here



So, did you test the product?

Not yet.

My C60 still has some particulates after manual shaking since May 9, so I thought it needed a few more days.

And I am at the beach till Monday, so my latest plan is to take 2mg on Monday, wait 4 hours, and then
go out running to test for the "Turnbuckle Effect".

[SarahVaughter]

I apologize for this posting that is essentially, as with "carbon", spam. Since "carbon" was permitted to mention that he will soon be selling C60 in olive oil, I hope you'll allow me to mention that so will we, and at around the same date as well.

This thread has been a great inspiration for us, and we learned a lot from your insights.

Here we calculate how much it costs us to produce a 50 ml bottle:

http://c60antiaging....s-in-olive-oil/

Please note that we at c60antiaging.com / owndoc.com will be selling at a little lower price than carbon60oliveoil.com, and our shipping is a bit lower as well.
Competition is always good - let the price wars begin ;-)

We do not use plastic bottles, but sterilized glass bottles. We sterilize the bottles ourselves, in a hot-air sterilizing device that can handle a few dozen bottles at the same time. Our centrifuge is a used 3 l Thermo IEC Centra GP8R bought from a German used lab equipment broker, but we're still waiting for it to arrive so part of our first batch will be done with a cheap 500 dollar machine.

We are interested in feedback on our rationale for recommending a daily human dose of 1.5 mg:

http://c60antiaging....-vs-rat-dosing/

We ship from Europe.

Attached Files

•  c60.jpg   18KB   7 downloads

Edited by SarahVaughter, 26 May 2012 - 08:50 PM.

[testerer]

I believe that at least 80% of the scientific knowledge required to explain this buckyball study result already exists

In reality, the effects of nanoparticles are not well studied yet, and the available knowledge on larger particles cannot be used for interpolation. Handling of nanoparticles also requires expensive equipment and, based on studies published, skills on a level higher than with particles of larger sizes, so such studies are much more labor intensive for the experienced scientists as they are harder to offload to undergrads while taking responsibility for correctness of the results.