3585 replies to this topic

[Junk Master]

Turnbuckle, are you still taking olive oil/C60? If not, do you believe you are still benefitting from your exposure? Has your weight lifting plateaued or is it continuing to increase?

[Anthony_Loera]

Krell,

That site looked interesting.

The 2.5 gallon OO for $150 sounds pretty good. Its about 9.5 liters and would need 7.5 grams of C60.

Thats about $600 for... 50 days of C60/Olive oil if (a big human rat hybrid) took 189ml a day (about 4/5 of a cup).

Not bad. Its just the mixing, centrifuge and filtering that is a bit of trouble. But not bad at all.

Cheers
A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 01 June 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle, are you still taking olive oil/C60? If not, do you believe you are still benefitting from your exposure? Has your weight lifting plateaued or is it continuing to increase?

I've taken it a few times since but I haven't seen a noticeable difference from a single dose as I did initially. The improvement in oxygen utilization remains and the Nautilus machine weights are slowing increasing. I've been checking my total cholesterol once or twice a week and this has hovered at 20 points below baseline, but this morning's test shot up dramatically. I hadn't done anything differently except to add a Peruvian herb (caigua) that was supposed to be good for cholesterol. Skin and hair and energy level are all improved over baseline.

I gave it to my dogs for a week and one no longer has trouble jumping in the car or catching a tennis ball. The other had a graying muzzle and this seems to be slowly reversing.

[niner]

Now you got me worried that my Bertolli Extra Light OO is not up to snuff.

So I looked around for an OO that actually maximizes and advertises its polyphenols.

Here is the best that I found
https://www.apollool....com/health.php

Does anyone know of a higher polyphenol OO?

Thanks for finding that site, Krell; they look pretty good. The other good site I'm aware of is AmphoraNueva.com. A lot of us have dealt with these people before. High polyphenol oils can have quite a bite, and may have flavors that people find unpleasant. I would want to know I was getting an oil that I didn't hate before buying a lot of it. (Particularly if you're going to be drinking large quantities of it!) I certainly wouldn't throw out any of the Bertolli if you've already put C60 in it. You can use a better oil if you want, and there would probably be an additive benefit over the C60, but I don't think it's a large part of the effect.

I think a better investment might be to spend more on a higher grade of C60, maybe even one that was purified by sublimation. The use of dichlorobenzene in purification has me worried about what might be in the 99.5% grade. I should probably take comfort in the fact that the rats didn't die, assuming that was in fact the case.

[niner]

I gave it to my dogs for a week and one no longer has trouble jumping in the car or catching a tennis ball. The other had a graying muzzle and this seems to be slowly reversing.

That paper that was posted upthread regarding hair growth in both hairless mice and human skin dosed with a fullerene compound was pretty impressive. Since the graying of hair is caused by the loss of catalase which in turn leads to higher ROS in the melanocyte, one might hope to see a reversal of graying with C60. Keep an eye on those woofers and let us know how they do.

[Krell]

Thanks for finding that site, Krell; they look pretty good. The other good site I'm aware of is AmphoraNueva.com. A lot of us have dealt with these people before. High polyphenol oils can have quite a bite, and may have flavors that people find unpleasant. I would want to know I was getting an oil that I didn't hate before buying a lot of it. (Particularly if you're going to be drinking large quantities of it!) I certainly wouldn't throw out any of the Bertolli if you've already put C60 in it. You can use a better oil if you want, and there would probably be an additive benefit over the C60, but I don't think it's a large part of the effect.

I think a better investment might be to spend more on a higher grade of C60, maybe even one that was purified by sublimation. The use of dichlorobenzene in purification has me worried about what might be in the 99.5% grade. I should probably take comfort in the fact that the rats didn't die, assuming that was in fact the case.

Apollo has a $10 discount for new customers, and a discount on 2011 vintage OO, so I ordered a bottle of 2011 and including shipping the total was only $13.58. I will take a chance of it being undrinkable.

[HappyPhysicist]

For those of you who do plan to live a long life, drinking lots of olive oil may in fact be very bad for you. Here are a couple of speakers who aim to debunk the myth that the Mediterranean diet and/or olive oil is good for you:

[Anthony_Loera]

Thanks Turnbuckle.

Coming at this from a more pragmatic angle, Anthony mentioned a 4/5 cup daily dose for a "human rat hybrid"...lol...

4/5 a cup of olive oil has roughly 1, 500 calories

Adding an additional 1,500 calories per day for 50 days to your diet will inevitably result in significant weight gain.

Burning off 1,500 calories through additional exercise...

You know, i switched over to a treadmill desk, with an incline... and have started watching my recorded TV programs and movies on it at night. Walking at 2.5 mph at an incline for 2-4 hours is doable when your watching something you like, and have great shoes.

I also notice restroom visits increase after testing with the carbon, oil, tuna, and pace picante sauce...

Also no increase in weight, so i am not sure what is happening, since i dont walk everyday just once every few days.

Maybe it's a benefit?

I'm actually out of the country, so i have stopped because i can't bring the mixture with me on the plane. But when i get back i will take another week to check the weight gain aspect using the real purple stuff.

Cheers
A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197

[Raphy]

Thanks Turnbuckle.

Coming at this from a more pragmatic angle, Anthony mentioned a 4/5 cup daily dose for a "human rat hybrid"...lol...

4/5 a cup of olive oil has roughly 1, 500 calories

Adding an additional 1,500 calories per day for 50 days to your diet will inevitably result in significant weight gain.

Burning off 1,500 calories through additional exercise, barring injury, will definitely leave you fit-- think 12-15 miles per day of jogging-- but compliance seems unlikely.

Even a strict diet, combined with increased exercise seems unlikely to stop weight gain.

With a low carb diet you should be ok. Carbs are the weight gainers, not fats.

[Hebbeh]

You know, i switched over to a treadmill desk, with an incline... and have started watching my recorded TV programs and movies on it at night. Walking at 2.5 mph at an incline for 2-4 hours is doable when your watching something you like, and have great shoes.

I also notice restroom visits increase after testing with the carbon, oil, tuna, and pace picante sauce...

Also no increase in weight, so i am not sure what is happening, since i dont walk everyday just once every few days.

Maybe it's a benefit?

I'm actually out of the country, so i have stopped because i can't bring the mixture with me on the plane. But when i get back i will take another week to check the weight gain aspect using the real purple stuff.

Cheers
A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197

Be aware that fat gain from excess calories occurs very slowly....due to normal day to day weight fluctuations, it is difficult at best, to realize weight gain until you are 5 pounds into it...which could take many months or likely a year. Overweight or obese individuals don't wake one day and realize they are fat....it occurs very slowly over years....typically 5-10 pounds per year...so that after 5-10 years they suddenly realize they are 50 pounds overweight....and wonder how it happened. With excess weight gain, you never see or feel it happening...until well after the fact....and the first 5 pounds are difficult if not impossible to realize for the reasons stated....so I doubt this aspect will become apparent until a year or more down the road. In the meantime, it is difficult to measure what those excess calories are doing to your arteries, liver, organs, and insulin sensitivity...as these negative markers too are degraded slowly over time...like weight gain, nobody wakes and suddenly realizes they have coronary heart disease, diabetes, or fatty liver disease....personally, I would be very cautious about adding more than a few hundred extra calories per day for very long...not alone 1500. After all, it's that couple hundred calorie dessert after dinner every day that adds the extra 5-10 pound per year creep that sneaks up on people...and how the obesity epidemic in America began. If not implemented carefully, this protocol could easily become counterproductive. But I admire your inquisitiveness and willingness to take one for the team!!! And am more than a little interested in experimenting on my big rat when viable product is available.

[Krell]

Today I ran an electronically timed 5k (3.1 mile) road race after drinking
2.4mg C60 on each of the previous 4 days, plus 16 oz of beetroot juice on
each of the previous 6 days. This is a race I run every year, so I have some
prior data to compare with:

Race Date/ My age / 5k time(m:s) / time per mile(m:s) / comment
Jun-2012 / 67 / 28:44 / 9:15 / 2.4mg C60 for 4 days prior and 16.9oz beetroot juice for 6 days prior
Jun-2011 / 66 / 29:15 / 9:25 / 16.9oz beetroot juice for 6 days prior
Jun-2010 / 65 / 31:18 / 10:05 / no beetroot juice
Jun-2009 / 64 / 30:24 / 9:47 / no beetroot juice

Amazingly I am getting faster as I get older!? I placed 3rd/25 in my geezer (65-69yo) category.

Considering my minimal training (only about 8 two mile runs over the past month) I am inclined to
give the C60 some credit for my improved performance today. Perhaps I am confirming
the "Turnbuckle Effect" where he improved his stamina after his first 2mg C60 dose.

My original "Turnbuckle Effect" test involved taking my first 2.4mg C60 dose at 5pm in the evening,
and then doing a training run at 8am the next morning, with no improvement in my stamina. The
long interval of 15 hours between my first C60 dose and the run may have compromised this test.

This morning I took my 2.4mg C60 dose at 6:15am and ran the race at 8:10 am. So my race
may have had the benefit of 4 days of C60 dosing, plus the short 2 hours between the last dose and
the race?

Another confounding factor may be my use of Bertolli Extra Lite OO whose polyphenol level
may lower than optimal? I have some high polyphenol OO on order, plus an electronic stirrer.

Edited by Krell, 02 June 2012 - 07:06 PM.

[Hebbeh]

With a low carb diet you should be ok. Carbs are the weight gainers, not fats.

A low carb diet is not a free ticket to eat as much fat as one desires....I believe you will be unpleasantly surprised there....in the end, it really comes down to calories and energy balance....you can't deny the laws of physics no matter your food choices.

[Turnbuckle]

Today I ran an electronically timed 5k (3.1 mile) road race after drinking
2.4mg C60 on each of the previous 4 days, plus 16 oz of beetroot juice on
each of the previous 6 days. This is a race I run every year, so I have some
prior data to compare with:

Race Date/ My age / 5k time(m:s) / time per mile(m:s) / comment
Jun-2012 / 67 / 28:44 / 9:15 / 2.4mg C60 for 4 days prior and 16.9oz beetroot juice for 6 days prior
Jun-2011 / 66 / 29:15 / 9:25 / 16.9oz beetroot juice for 6 days prior
Jun-2010 / 65 / 31:18 / 10:05 / no beetroot juice
Jun-2009 / 64 / 30:24 / 9:47 / no beetroot juice

Amazingly I am getting faster as I get older!? I placed 3rd/25 in my geezer (65-69yo) category.

It's good that you're running faster with it. Once you get that under 20 minutes, we'll know it works.

[Hebbeh]

Today I ran an electronically timed 5k (3.1 mile) road race after drinking
2.4mg C60 on each of the previous 4 days, plus 16 oz of beetroot juice on
each of the previous 6 days. This is a race I run every year, so I have some
prior data to compare with:

Race Date/ My age / 5k time(m:s) / time per mile(m:s) / comment
Jun-2012 / 67 / 28:44 / 9:15 / 2.4mg C60 for 4 days prior and 16.9oz beetroot juice for 6 days prior
Jun-2011 / 66 / 29:15 / 9:25 / 16.9oz beetroot juice for 6 days prior
Jun-2010 / 65 / 31:18 / 10:05 / no beetroot juice
Jun-2009 / 64 / 30:24 / 9:47 / no beetroot juice

Amazingly I am getting faster as I get older!? I placed 3rd/25 in my geezer (65-69yo) category.

Considering my minimal training (only about 8 two mile runs over the past month) I am inclined to
give the C60 some credit for my improved performance today. Perhaps I am confirming
the "Turnbuckle Effect" where he improved his stamina after his first 2mg C60 dose.

My original "Turnbuckle Effect" test involved taking my first 2.4mg C60 dose at 5pm in the evening,
and then doing a training run at 8am the next morning, with no improvement in my stamina. The
long interval of 15 hours between my first C60 dose and the run may have compromised this test.

This morning I took my 2.4mg C60 dose at 6:15am and ran the race at 8:10 am. So my race
may have had the benefit of 4 days of C60 dosing, plus the short 2 hours between the last dose and
the race?

Another confounding factor may be my use of Bertolli Extra Lite OO whose polyphenol level
may lower than optimal? I have some high polyphenol OO on order, plus an electronic stirrer.

It's obvious that the C60/oo showed some improvement. But I have had similar improvements and increased stamina after using resveratrol...probably even a larger effect from resveratrol...which I have seen duplicated in competitive cyclists. How did you feel during the run...did the run "feel" easy....like normal fatigue didn't occur?

[Krell]

It's obvious that the C60/oo showed some improvement. But I have had similar improvements and increased stamina after using resveratrol...probably even a larger effect from resveratrol...which I have seen duplicated in competitive cyclists. How did you feel during the run...did the run "feel" easy....like normal fatigue didn't occur?

Since my training runs were only 2 miles, I definitely did not run "easy" in the latter part of the 3.1 mile race, but I did have a kick left for the last 100m that enabled me to pass a few 20somethings.

Edited by Krell, 02 June 2012 - 07:37 PM.

[cesium]

For those of you who do plan to live a long life, drinking lots of olive oil may in fact be very bad for you. Here are a couple of speakers who aim to debunk the myth that the Mediterranean diet and/or olive oil is good for you:

While I certainly wouldn't recommend one include a half cup of olive oil into their usual diet, those two speakers struck me as clueless. I doubt either of them were aware that Inuits on their traditional highly saturated fat diets have little heart disease, or that the polyphenol hydroxytyrosol found in EVOO is one of the most if not the most potent antioxidents found in nature. They both impress me as being nothing more than a couple of clueless clowns trying to market their books/seminars.

[Hebbeh]

Since my training runs were only 2 miles, I definitely did not run "easy" in the latter part of the 3.1 mile race, but I did have a kick left for the last 100m.

It sounds like a very similar effect as resveratrol in regards to physical performance and stamina...but suspect it is through different mechanisms and pathways...and am becoming more than a little 'excited' to test any synergy between C60 and resveratrol...I'm starting to suspect that could be quite the performance cocktail.

[niner]

If anyone is drinking 1500 Cal of OO a day, they probably aren't going to be very hungry afterwords. Just eat less of the other stuff. Problem solved. BTW, you probably don't want to reduce carbs too much in this case. With the remaining 500-1500 Cal, you'll probably want mostly protein and carbs.

Is it really necessary to drink that much OO in a single day? Some options that come to mind are higher C60 concentration and spreading the dose out over a longer period. The rats only got 24 doses in their entire lives. I can't think of any reason why you wouldn't get a similar result with 48 doses that were half as big, etc.

[HighDesertWizard]

I got my C60 today from SES Research. I bought 10g of their 99.5% product, Lot BT-7006. Should I have bought a higher quality product?

[Allen Walters]

I purchased some carapelli first cold pressing extra virgin olive oil from wal-mart, and took a shot with my DIM. The taste was fine, but i got an intense burning in my throat. I googled it and this is what I found http://www.elitefitn...oat-141288.html So, I'm guessing this is good oil, right?

[Raphy]

A low carb diet is not a free ticket to eat as much fat as one desires....I believe you will be unpleasantly surprised there....in the end, it really comes down to calories and energy balance....you can't deny the laws of physics no matter your food choices.

No it doesn't come down to calories and energy balance, metabolism is far too complex for that. And this calories theory is one of the reason obesity is exploding these days, and it's so hard for obese people to loose weight.

Fat doesn't make you fat. You gain weight only when insulin instruct your cells to transform your blood sugar into fat. And insulin is only produced when your blood sugar increase, ie when you eat carbs.

All fats are not equals, nor good for you. But even if you eat 1500 calories of olive oil a day, if you eat almost no carbs then you won't gain a pound. And you can eat 0 carbs a day without problem, you don't need them.

[Allen Walters]

The place I got my 99.5% stuff from said that the rest is almost entirely c70. I don't see how .5% is gonna make much difference.

[Edgar]

I got my C60 today from SES Research. I bought 10g of their 99.5% product, Lot BT-7006. Should I have bought a higher quality product?

Yes, probably. You're looking at 50mg of toxic solvent in there (the remaining 0.5%). You can remove that solvent by heating it to something around 550 degrees C in a 1/1000 Torr vacuum.

[Turnbuckle]

The place I got my 99.5% stuff from said that the rest is almost entirely c70. I don't see how .5% is gonna make much difference.

Who knows. We may eventually discover that C70 is even better than C60. And the mix is about half the price from SES.

[Anthony_Loera]

... But I admire your inquisitiveness and willingness to take one for the team!!! And am more than a little interested in experimenting on my big rat when viable product is available.

Well,

I suppose I am one of the few who have done the 23andme testing, along with a recent Biophysical 250, and even a imaging session ('cause I can)... the only thing that was found was an H. Pilori bacteria i probably picked up when I was eating out of the country. Since then I have knocked it out with drugs and res, and am considered pretty healthy...

so... I suppose I can personally "take one for the team" without an issue.

niner has it right... after taking 4/5 a cup of oil, you really feel full for most if not the rest of the day (and eat less). So that may be the reason I am not going up in weight. My problem is drinking enough water during the day, sometimes I just forget.

This thread is pretty darn good.

A lot of people much smarter than myself have chimed in, and it definitely keeps me glued when my cell phone 'dings' that there is a new post on this thread. To tell you the truth, I can't wait to start the big rat on the regimen.

I left my stirrer back in miami going, and the small sample solution was nice and purple when I left. I think it will be ready to centrifuge and filter when I get back.

Keep up the good discussion guys.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 02 June 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[Hebbeh]

No it doesn't come down to calories and energy balance, metabolism is far too complex for that. And this calories theory is one of the reason obesity is exploding these days, and it's so hard for obese people to loose weight.

Fat doesn't make you fat. You gain weight only when insulin instruct your cells to transform your blood sugar into fat. And insulin is only produced when your blood sugar increase, ie when you eat carbs.

All fats are not equals, nor good for you. But even if you eat 1500 calories of olive oil a day, if you eat almost no carbs then you won't gain a pound. And you can eat 0 carbs a day without problem, you don't need them.

You're right in that it is much more complicated...but it's a disservice to blame obesity on carbs. And the body doesn't release insulin just in response to carbs or blood sugar levels....that is a fallacy...you will always release insulin in response to the feeding effect or to energy intake...not to do so would be type 1 diabetes and eventual death...the body requires insulin...no insulin results in death...carbs or not...ask any type 1 diabetic. Without insulin, no energy/nutrients will get into the cells and mitochondria…which will result in cell death and…organism death…insulin is the necessary key to the lock on allowing nutrients into the cell…all nutrients…not just glucose…it is a necessary…not optional hormone…said to be the most important hormone in the body. And all excess triglycerides will be stored as fat...not just the triglycerides converted in the liver from excess carbs...it is much more efficient for the body to store excess dietary triglycerides directly into fat cells without the extra metabolic step of carb to triglyceride conversion in the liver. The body won’t just allow this glut of dietary lipids to float around in your blood stream without storing them…that is how it works. And it is a fallacy to think calories don't matter. Low carb diets are only successful if calories are part of the equation. And yes, I have gone low carb and am well versed in the metabolic nuances of low carb versus numerous other dietary protocols and agree low carb can be effective…if implemented correctly. However, the latest research indicate that the response and success of a low carb dietary protocol is somewhat dependent on genetics…certain genes and genetic types respond more or less favorably to higher lipid diets…and explains why some individuals seem to respond more favorably to a low carb diet than others. And I will agree that if consuming nearly a cup of olive oil per day, hunger may...emphasis may...be satiated...but without serious dietary discipline, it would still be very easy to exceed mantenanence energy intake as that is a lot of concentrated caloric intake. I could get into a long discussion on dietary protocols and metabolism but don't wish to take this off topic and away from the discussion at hand but did see some misconceptions needing to be addressed.

[Junk Master]

Congrats to Krell for lowering his 5k time at 67, and for his report.

I'd also love to see another thread discussing high fat/low fat for optimum brain health. Some very interesting minds here.

Finally, I know there's been some speculation that Resveratrol mimics CR and or exercise, so I wonder if VOO/C60 has a more pronounced effect on lightly trained athletes. I'd also love to see if it would preserve condition in highly trained but injured athletes. A similar method of action to AICAR/GW1516 combo?

[Hebbeh]

I'd also love to see another thread discussing high fat/low fat for optimum brain health. Some very interesting minds here.

http://www.scienceda...20518081358.htm

http://www.scienceda...10608161533.htm

and of particular interest to the topic at hand....

http://www.scienceda...20403112004.htm

[jg42122]

Congrats to Krell for lowering his 5k time at 67, and for his report.

I'd also love to see another thread discussing high fat/low fat for optimum brain health. Some very interesting minds here.

Finally, I know there's been some speculation that Resveratrol mimics CR and or exercise, so I wonder if VOO/C60 has a more pronounced effect on lightly trained athletes. I'd also love to see if it would preserve condition in highly trained but injured athletes. A similar method of action to AICAR/GW1516 combo?

I have 3 people that are going to be logging this as soon as we get it, one of them is one of the best athletes I have ever seen so we will know shortly.

[NewtonPulsifer]

An interesting new study - http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21780373

This is in vitro on skin cells (so probably most relevant for topical use), but basically C60 in a liposome ( a sort of water-soluble ball of oil around the C60) was tested and exhibited very favorable anti-oxidant capabilities of "long term persistence".

Fullerene-C60 incorporated in liposome exerts persistent hydroxyl radical-scavenging activity and cytoprotection in UVA/B-irradiated keratinocytes.

Kato S, Aoshima H, Saitoh Y, Miwa N.

Source

Laboratory of Cell-Death Control BioTechnology, Faculty of Life and Environmental Sciences, Prefectural University of Hiroshima, 562, Nanatsuka, Shobara, Hiroshima 727-0023, Japan.

Abstract

The aim of this study is to examine antioxidant activity of fullerene-C60 (C60) incorporated in liposome (LpsmFlln, a diameter of 75.6 nm). LpsmFlln is water-soluble, and composed of hydrogenated lecithin of 89.7%, glycine soja sterol of 10% and C60 of 0.3%. Hydroxyl radicals (*OH), generated from UVA- or UVB-irradiated H2O2, were scavenged by LpsmFlln but not by C60-lacking Lpsm as assessed by ESR, showing that the active principle is C60 as scanty as 1/415 weight versus LpsmFlln; the *OH amount (% of non-additive control) was decreased, LpsmFlln-dose-dependently, and for 0.5% LpsmFlln (C60-eq.:16.7 microM) to 34.1% or 78.3% upon irradiation with UVA (12 J/cm2) or UVB (500 mJ/cm2), respectively, showing the superiority for UVA to UVB in terms of the *OH scavenging of LpsmFlln. Cell viability of human skin keratinocytes HaCaT decreased to 41.1% upon UVA-irradiation at 10 J/cm2, but retained to 60.6% with 0.025% LpsmFlln (C60-eq.: 0.84 microM) together with prevention of cell-morphological degeneration, in contrast to scarce effects of C60-lacking Lpsm. The scavenging activity for Fenton reaction-generated *OH, detected by DMPO/ESR, was 96.2% or 72.2% (% of no-additive control) at 1 min and decreased time-dependently to 24.8% or 28.3% at 12 min with 16.7 microM L-ascorbic acid (Asc) or Trolox, respectively, whereas 0.5% LpsmFlln (C60-eq:16.7 microM, the same concentration as for Asc) diminished *OH by 90.9% at 1 min and 91.5% even at 12 min, demonstrating the superiority of LpsmFlln to Asc or Trolox in terms of persistence of *OH-scavenging ability. Repressive efficacy on beta-carotene discoloration (% of control) for 60 min was in the order, based on the same molar or weight concentration: 1.3%:3.34 microM Asc < 25.0%:0.1% Lpsm < 36.3%:0.1% LpsmFlln (C60-eq.:3.34 microM) < 57.2%:3.34 microM Trolox, indicating the preventive effect of LpsmFlln against beta-carotene oxidation. Thus, LpsmFlln was demonstrated for an antioxidant ability characteristic of long-term persistence, and is attributed to fullerene-C60 but scarcely to Lpsm in all the tests examined, and is expected as the skin-protecting agent against oxidative stress.

Edited by NewtonPulsifer, 03 June 2012 - 12:26 AM.