3585 replies to this topic

[Metrodorus]

When light is not shone directly through the olive oil fullerene complex, the colour appears a reddish-brown, like the colour of a good tawny port wine. In a teaspoon, it appears brown.

Edited by Metrodorus, 05 June 2012 - 02:53 PM.

[SarahVaughter]

Thank you niner, that photo was very helpful - we are seeing the same colors - phew, that's a relief! Quite a stretch to call the third color "red", but the angle of the light, the color of the background and the volume of the vessel (how long the light has to pass through the container) - it all matters.

We also now see the deep ruby red color when we used only 300 mg of SES 99.9% C60 in 300 ml EVOO. Already after a day of stirring. Especially when you look straight down to a reflective stirrer plate, it's beautifully purplish red, in spite of the fact that the EVOO is yellowish like in the first tube in your photo obtained from the researchers that did the rat study.

[maxwatt]

Hi Niner,

I am not an expert on this topic but, according to wikipedia, there are studies showing significant (15%+) lifespan extension from intermittent fasting in a range of animals from rats to worms - leading me to believe that it should be controlled for. There does appear to be some overlap between calorie reduction and intermittent fasting in that fasting periodically tends to reduce the number of
maxwatt, on 04 June 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:


I cannot say that this isn't the case, but it would be unprofessional for a life-span study not to control for DR. I would think our astute members would have caught this were it so. Then too, it takes extreme caloric restriction to produce more than about 10% life extension, and the C60 mice showed much more than that.

Hi Maxwatt,

I've spoken to the authors of the study and they have neither confirmed nor denied intermittent fasting before doses. They stress that mouse growth was normal, and say that shows feeding was normal. In my opinion it doesn't show this as several studies have shown intermittent fasting can be accompanied by normal or near-normal growth. I have a great deal of respect for this forum and the expertise here, but I wouldn't assume that this has been adequately addressed as the authors of the study don't seem to have taken it seriously. If further studies are carried out I would argue strongly that these should be ad libitum or strictly controlled given the similarities between the effects of intermittent feeding and fullerenes. That's the only way to isolate what effect the fullerene / olive oil solution is having.

Thanks for that study. It strengthens my suspicion that it is C60 adducts with olive oil polyphenols that are responsible for the effect we are seeing. If we are indeed seeing it, and if the study can be replicated, and if it works in other species....

There is a lot of interesting discussion of the mechanism of what is happening with the fullerenes. I hope we can accelerate understanding of this intriguing substance and its effects in animals.

Michael posted about a study a few months back, said study purported to show true intermittent CR did not actually extend mouse life span. The confounding factor was the scheduling, and sa9id mice were actually restricted, not eating as much as ad libidum mice. I wish I'd kept track of that, I'll hae to look it up. but in any case, I agree with the researchers that the mice were not (overly?) restricted in that they showed normal weight gain. To achieve the degree of life extension seen in the C60 study, CR mice have to be restricted from a young age, and will have a wights 30% less than adlibidum-fed mice. But I agree with you on the need to better control future studies, and there is a need for a bigger sample size.

[Spider_]

I too have now dissolved (2 weeks), centrifuged (3h in 1800g unit) but not filtered yet 0.5g of C60 (99.9%) in 1 Litre EVOO. The colour is brown.

In relation to the post above, I have now transferred 400ml of centrifuged (but not filtered) C60/OO from a plastic into a large Pyrex glass flask. The color I am getting is a dark purple with a very slight brownish tone. I would expect it to be a little lighter after filtering.

I would like to post some pictures of finished solution but am struggling to attach photos to my posts as the Choose File button keeps getting greyed out. I am using iPad.
Can anyone please help me with explanation how to attach photos?

Thanks

[Anthony_Loera]

I use Tapatalk to read and post on Longecity from my Android.

It is a whole lot better than using the webkit browser that is used by Android and Ipads.

See if its available for Ipad.

as an example, i just posted directly from my android a picture shot 2 days ago.

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197

Attached Files

•  uploadfromtaptalk1338914185700.jpg   106.79KB   3 downloads

[stephen_b]

Since my training runs were only 2 miles, I definitely did not run "easy" in the latter part of the 3.1 mile race, but I did have a kick left for the last 100m that enabled me to pass a few 20somethings.

Congrats on the race results. It does feel great to pass people at the end of a race. I've started taking my resveratrol with olive oil lately (instead of buccal with a cap of vodka) and have seen some nice gains. No idea if it's causal.

[Metrodorus]

I've started taking my resveratrol with olive oil lately

Resveratrol is oil soluble, and pretty much insoluble in water.
Taking it with oil should facilitate absorption.

[SarahVaughter]

We have done some more experiments and there are some oils where the ruby red color does not appear. We tried with a cheap Italian oil sold as extra virgin and it won't get red at all. The higher the quality of the oil, the earlier the red color appears and the closer it resembles the color in the photos posted in this thread. We now have decided to throw away our entire batch of Turkish oil and settle on a Cretan oil instead. We see the deep purple color within hours now.

This lesson cost us 2000 dollars in lost C60 (we used 5 gram/l to speed things up and will just chuck everything out) but not much of a production delay because we're still waiting for the 750 ml centrifuge bottles and a scale to get them balanced (You'll need a scale that goes to 1 kg but with a real resolution of at least 0.1 g). The bottles are incredibly hard to source and incredibly expensive as well.

Question to the experts here: In our understanding, when halving the RCF, do you need to double the centrifuging time (we think so, or does is the relation non-linear?)

[AdamI]

Deluted olive oil is sadly very common...

[HighDesertWizard]

Deluted olive oil is sadly very common...

The book about it...

http://www.amazon.co.../dp/0393070212/

[Anthony_Loera]

Sarah,

How many G's can you centrifuge pull, using the 750ml bottles? Many (Cough!) affordable ones fall below the 5000g mark used in the experiment.

A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197

[SarahVaughter]

Ours can officially go to 4550 G, but not with 750 ml bottles, with those the recommended max. is 2500 G at 3400 rpm.

However, as far as I understand, for every halving of the G forces, you can simply double the centrifuging time, since the relationship of sedimentation speed as a function of G forces is linear at the higher end of the scale (where Brownian motion becomes less important), correct?

Olive oil has a specific gravity of 0.9 so we can go a bit higher. But the centrifuge can be spun to 5000 G with those buckets as well, since the centrifuge goes to 5100 rpm - they should just not be filled to 750 ml but for ex. 250 ml only.

That would still give a very good processing capacity of a liter/hour. We have to look into the formulas. If anyone can point out obvious mistakes in the two proposed solutions, I'll be grateful.

We paid 4000 dollars for our (used) centrifuge, the IEC Centra GP8R with 228 rotor. I think we'll be doing a combination of under-loading, over-spinning and longer centrigugation times to get the same or a better result. We can also "push the envelope" (exceeding the safety limits), since we will only need to use the centrifuge relatively infrequently.

The centrifuge stands in a basement so there won't be a risk of personal injury.

Edited by SarahVaughter, 06 June 2012 - 02:12 PM.

[HappyPhysicist]

Just wanted to share my experience with filtration. So far I have been using a Buchner setup, which is a funnel, filter and flask with a vacuum connection and a hand pump vacuum. I have been using .22 micron nylon filters. The problem with this setup is that the filter is held in place by the vacuum and so I leave it unattended and the flask loses vacuum the filter can curl up and the oil can circumnavigate the filter. Recently I purchased filtering kits from Tisch. These kits include the cup with a built in .22 micron PES filter and flask with vacuum attachment. The advantage here is that the filter is sealed to the cup so oil cannot leak around the filter. They cost about $8 a piece. I tried it out today and found that it filters about 5 to 10 times faster than my buchner setup. This is probably due to a couple of things. Perhaps PES is better than Nylon for filtering oil and there seems to be more filtering surface area. In the buchner setup the filter area is restricted to the areas at the holes in the filter funnel, whereas the kit setup has larger 'holes'. I really like this setup and will use them from now on.

Here is a link to where I bought them:

http://www.scientifi...7118&fullpage=y

Here is a photo, the "Autofil" kit on the left and the Buchner setup on the right:

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Edited by HappyPhysicist, 06 June 2012 - 02:33 PM.

[Krell]

Just wanted to share my experience with filtration. So far I have been using a Buchner setup, which is a funnel, filter and flask with a vacuum connection and a hand pump vacuum. I have been using .22 micron nylon filters. The problem with this setup is that the filter is held in place by the vacuum and so I leave it unattended and the flask loses vacuum the filter can curl up and the oil can circumnavigate the filter. Recently I purchased filtering kits from Tisch. These kits include the cup with a built in .22 micron PES filter and flask with vacuum attachment. The advantage here is that the filter is sealed to the cup so oil cannot leak around the filter. They cost about $8 a piece. I tried it out today and found that it filters about 5 to 10 times faster than my buchner setup. This is probably due to a couple of things. Perhaps PES is better than Nylon for filtering oil and there seems to be more filtering surface area. In the buchner setup the filter area is restricted to the areas at the holes in the filter funnel, whereas the kit setup has larger 'holes'. I really like this setup and will use them from now on.

Here is a link to where I bought them:

http://www.scientifi...7118&fullpage=y

Here is a photo, the "Autofil" kit on the left and the Buchner setup on the right:

What do you see in your filter after filtration?

Could you use each filter multiple times?

TIA

[HappyPhysicist]

I don't see anything in the filter but the only time I have is when I added more than 1 g/L to the olive oil. Lately I am doing a half concentration. So I am adding about 0.5 g/L of C60 to the oil, so theoretically 100% of the C60 should dissolve fully.

I see no reason not to use it over and over. The minimum order at Tisch is $75 so you will probably buy a case of 12 anyway. I am re-filtering my supply (about 1 L). Now. I think as long as you don't add more that 0.9 g/L of C60, you won't end up filtering out too much and hence won't clog up your filter and you could use one kit all day long. Moreover, I don't see why you couldn't just store it for future use also.

I just realized that with the Autofil system I can hook up my Foodsaver vacuum sealer. No more hand pumping. I also use the foodsaver to vacuum seal my mason jars of C60/00. Probably overkill but I had all the attachments anyway so it was no additional cost.

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•  foodsaver plus autofil.jpg   90.06KB   10 downloads

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 06 June 2012 - 04:26 PM.

[SarahVaughter]

We tried a Buchner setup with a vacuum pump because one can use very large diameter filters to speed things up, but the danger is that as soon as there is no more vacuum, there is immediate leakage around the filter, as HappyPhysicist remarked. So we're using a traditional filter set (glass parts with a clamp and a 47 mm diameter 0.22 micrometer filter).

Another important thing is that there are hydrophillic filters and hydrophobic filters. It's is much easier to get the oil through a hydrophobic filter.

Edited by SarahVaughter, 06 June 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[hav]

Sarah,

My centrifuge only goes to 1790 g at 4,000 rpm and I'm not able to get any separation into layers even after 4 hours of centrifuging. Just a little black sediment at the bottom of the tubes after 2 hours that doesn't change much with additional centrifuging.

Howard

[HappyPhysicist]

wccaguy,

Head on over to the ALSTDI forums: http://www.als.net/f...Treatments.aspx, get yourself a login and jump right in. You will be welcome with open arms with all of your ideas but it is a rough crowd so wear thick skin. Most of the people only have a few years to live so they don't mince words and criticism is usually quick and merciless. Don't take anything personally. A thread just started on the Resolvin so that would be a great place for you to jump right in.

Sarah,

As you are well aware the Lyme connection is a raging debate and I know you have been kicked out of other forums for trying to give away your book (which is bulls&*t) but the ALSTDI forums are much more open minded and are less regulated. I think the very large Ceftriaxone ALS clinical trial will tell us a lot about the potential Lyme connection.

Thanks!

Ben

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 06 June 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[SarahVaughter]

A raging debate is putting it mildy indeed - it's considered sacrilege by the entire medical establishment :-)

Anyway - I do not think progressed bulbar ALS can be cured by any currently available means. No available antibiotic will be able to cure it, and abx. will likely kill the patient, if the patient is at an advanced stage. So I do not see a cure - not with current antibiotics.

Any trials with antibiotics are fatally flawed because their premisse is that ALS has definitely not an infectious etiology. I explain that in my book.

Edited by SarahVaughter, 06 June 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[hav]

Here's how folks can reproduce the red color (this is for the average joe who doesn't know voodoo):

2- Buy stirrer, i thought i was going to be able to use a Hana brand stirrer for a large batch... but found out it could only stir a large glass worth of oil. No funnel is seen at a liter.

I found when I used the capsule that came with the Hana stirrer that it developed a funnel with 100 ml of oil in a 500 ml beaker. But no funnel when I went up to 200 ml of oil. So I picked up a couple of larger capsules and what a difference. The 1.5 in x 3/8 in capsule almost spun the oil out of the beaker till I backed the speed down a bit. I expect to try spinning in a 1-liter bottle for my next batch. Here's the links to the 2 spare capsules I picked up:

http://www.amazon.co...duct/B002VBW5JK
http://www.amazon.co...duct/B002VBW5G8

Howard

[SarahVaughter]

If you want to produce large quantities of this stuff, you really should use an overhead stirrer.

There are magnetic stirrer bars made of rare earth magnets - extremely expensive but super-powerful.

We found that the optimal vessel shapes are Erlenmeyers and beakers, and that round flasks get a black ring of stagnating C60 where the current is lowest.
In that case you should shake manually a few times to dislodge it. After a few days this problem will cease.

[niner]

Another interesting thing about this find is that resolvin comes from DHA, however, it has been shown that increasing your intake of DHA (in the form of vitamin E at least) ...

You mean Fish Oil?

[HappyPhysicist]

I should take that back. I am erroneously equating fish oil with vitamin E.

[HighDesertWizard]

wccaguy,

Head on over to the ALSTDI forums: http://www.als.net/f...Treatments.aspx, get yourself a login and jump right in. You will be welcome with open arms with all of your ideas but it is a rough crowd so wear thick skin. Most of the people only have a few years to live so they don't mince words and criticism is usually quick and merciless. Don't take anything personally. A thread just started on the Resolvin so that would be a great place for you to jump right in.

Sarah,

As you are well aware the Lyme connection is a raging debate and I know you have been kicked out of other forums for trying to give away your book (which is bulls&*t) but the ALSTDI forums are much more open minded and are less regulated. I think the very large Ceftriaxone ALS clinical trial will tell us a lot about the potential Lyme connection.

Thanks!

Ben

I'll check in there if Sarah does...

[stephen_b]

If ALS is mediated by an autoimmune response, I wonder if low dose naltrexone might be helpful (see lowdosenaltrexone.org, and specifically their LDN and autoimmune section, which mentions ALS).

Edited by stephen_b, 06 June 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

I'm beginning to see that the C60/oil solution is very sensitive to oxygen. All of the solutions I've prepared are turning brown, and samples in small polyethylene bottles are turning brown rather more rapidly. One bottle, with more air space, is turning faster than the others. This morning I tried running fresh EVOO through the vacuum filter using a 4 micron paper and there was a lot of foam in the oil, indicating dissolved oxygen. Unfortunately I wasn't able to draw more than 20" of Hg with the hand pump so I'll have to get a faucet aspirator to get rid of it all.

I also found that the oil solution can probably be stored in the freezer. A C60/almond oil solution turned almost opaque when kept there overnight and when returned to room temperature I could see no difference in it. That ought to cut down dramatically on oxidation.

[SarahVaughter]

The problem with that is the reduced solubility at lower temps. You may see precipitation of C60.

But if it takes two weeks to dissolve, perhaps, if you freeze it quickly, it won't get out of solution :-)

Edited by SarahVaughter, 06 June 2012 - 06:36 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

The problem with that is the reduced solubility at lower temps. You may see precipitation of C60.

But if it takes two weeks to dissolve, perhaps, if you freeze it quickly, it won't get out of solution :-)

Do you have a solubility curve? The only one I've seen--which was obviously way off--showed a higher solubility for lower temperatures.

[Turnbuckle]

Even if you can prevent C60 from reacting with oxygen, it might grab hydrogen atoms from the solvent, as this early paper speculates: "Of considerable interest is the mass spectrum of this material which shows the presence of C70H12 which elutes together with c84; the hydrogen may have been abstracted from the hydrocarbon solvent."

Source: http://pac.iupac.org...f/6501x0135.pdf

So it appears that fullerenes will not be naked for long, and perhaps the later treatments of the rats weren't doing what the early treatments did.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 06 June 2012 - 07:05 PM.

[SarahVaughter]

That graph was indeed totally wrong, and the rest of the solubility values too, Turnbuckle.

I remember seeing a temp/solubility graph for olive oil and other oils but I can't find it anymore. But it increases, not decreases, with temperature.