3585 replies to this topic

[HappyPhysicist]

I can't remember if it was Baati or Cataldo that said the C60/OO was stable for at least 2 years.

I have not noticed any color change in my samples, but then again I vacuum seal the mason jars I have them in. For my next batch I will split it in two, put one half in a vacuum sealed container and the other I will leave open. Putting them side by side will be the best way to judge color change.

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 06 June 2012 - 07:37 PM.

[hav]

They didn't say it in the paper. In AgeVivo's mouse experiment thread, there is a picture that he got from Baati's group. Here's a copy:



On the left is the plain olive oil, in the middle is after stirring for two weeks, showing the brown color, and on the right is after centrifugation/filtration. It seems reasonable to call it red. -ish, anyway...



Also, one person's 'purple' could be another's 'red'. Without a color accurate photograph it is hard to say what they saw.

Been thinking about the color of the plain olive oil on the left. It looks yellow rather than greenish. If that's a color accurate photo, that would suggest its from a late harvest rather than an early one. Late harvest olive oil typically goes rancid after 6 months to a year because it has a higher polyunsaturated oil content. Early harvest olive oil exhibits the greenish coloring and is preferred because it keeps for around 4 years and is also much higher in phenols and antioxidants. But I don't have a clue what's what after mixing in c60.

Howard

[niner]

I'm beginning to see that the C60/oil solution is very sensitive to oxygen. All of the solutions I've prepared are turning brown, and samples in small polyethylene bottles are turning brown rather more rapidly. One bottle, with more air space, is turning faster than the others. This morning I tried running fresh EVOO through the vacuum filter using a 4 micron paper and there was a lot of foam in the oil, indicating dissolved oxygen. Unfortunately I wasn't able to draw more than 20" of Hg with the hand pump so I'll have to get a faucet aspirator to get rid of it all.

I also found that the oil solution can probably be stored in the freezer. A C60/almond oil solution turned almost opaque when kept there overnight and when returned to room temperature I could see no difference in it. That ought to cut down dramatically on oxidation.

Assuming the brown color is the aggregate, it should filter out. These things are pretty reactive, and have been known, for example, to spontaneously hydroxylate in water or form epoxides on exposure to oxygen, which might go on to react with other molecules. Olive oil freezes very nicely; I have several bottles of it in my freezer at the moment. When I thaw one out, the oil tastes very fresh, unlike the last bit of bottle on the table. One funny thing I've noticed is that gas bubbles emerge from the oil as it thaws. I guess that means that olive oil can take on a certain amount of air, but that it comes out of solution at freezing temps. Once the oil freezes from the outside in, the gas can't get all the way out, so it's trapped until it thaws. This results in a pressure rise in the thawing bottle, which can pop the cap off.

[Metrodorus]

Another word of caution: We have no idea which reaction products were responsible for the effect......in the study the oil was stored at rtp for over 2 years......I see no reason to do anything differently.

[Turnbuckle]

...Olive oil freezes very nicely; I have several bottles of it in my freezer at the moment. When I thaw one out, the oil tastes very fresh, unlike the last bit of bottle on the table. One funny thing I've noticed is that gas bubbles emerge from the oil as it thaws. I guess that means that olive oil can take on a certain amount of air, but that it comes out of solution at freezing temps. Once the oil freezes from the outside in, the gas can't get all the way out, so it's trapped until it thaws. This results in a pressure rise in the thawing bottle, which can pop the cap off.

Vegetable oils do dissolve a lot of air, oxygen more than nitrogen. The solubility of O2 is about half a volume of atmospheric oxygen in a volume of oil. So freezing the C60 mix might be the perfect solution. Because there's really no need to ever thaw it. Just keep it in a wide mouth jar and spoon it out like ice cream.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 06 June 2012 - 09:58 PM.

[Logic]

Multiple sclerosis, Alzheimers, Parkinsons, ALS, Fibromyalgia etc. here:

http://www.longecity...lgia-mentioned/

[Chook12]

I am pleased to discover this thread and find I'm not the only crazy person in the world self-experimenting with c60 in olive oil.

I initially ordered 10g of 99.5% c60 from SESRES and was pleased it made it through customs. I mixed about 1g of this c60 into 1.5L of olive oil. The olive oil was labelled "organic". The mixture was initially brown but after a day or two of occasional shaking it became dark red when held up to the light. There is still a bit of black sediment on the bottom. I have been taking 1/2 a teaspoon daily for the last month and after a week started giving it to my husband as well. We are both in our late 30's/early 40's. So far no dramatic changes.

A more accurate scales and a magnetic stirrer have arrived so will use them for my next batch. I've also ordered 10g of SESRES 99.9% to keep as a stash. I might buy some of the professionally produced stuff when it becomes available and see if I can get my parents to take it.

[Mind]

I am pleased to discover this thread and find I'm not the only crazy person in the world self-experimenting with c60 in olive oil.

I initially ordered 10g of 99.5% c60 from SESRES and was pleased it made it through customs. I mixed about 1g of this c60 into 1.5L of olive oil. The olive oil was labelled "organic". The mixture was initially brown but after a day or two of occasional shaking it became dark red when held up to the light. There is still a bit of black sediment on the bottom. I have been taking 1/2 a teaspoon daily for the last month and after a week started giving it to my husband as well. We are both in our late 30's/early 40's. So far no dramatic changes.

A more accurate scales and a magnetic stirrer have arrived so will use them for my next batch. I've also ordered 10g of SESRES 99.9% to keep as a stash. I might buy some of the professionally produced stuff when it becomes available and see if I can get my parents to take it.

If you are going to experiment, you should also get some aging biomarker tests done, or some sort of blood work, just to have some objective evidence that something IS happening, good or bad (especially if bad things are happening).

[niner]

If you are going to experiment, you should also get some aging biomarker tests done, or some sort of blood work, just to have some objective evidence that something IS happening, good or bad (especially if bad things are happening).

That's a good idea. There are a variety of blood tests that relate to redox status, like the ratio of oxidized to reduced glutathione and a bunch of others. If you can afford it, a telomere length test would be interesting. Telomeres are very susceptible to oxidative damage, and DNA repair doesn't work as well on telomeres as it does on regular genomic dna. After several years of C60 treatment, you could get your telomeres measured again. In the best of all possible worlds, they would be longer, but they should at least not be as much shorter as they would have been.

It would be great if we could find an academic lab that could suggest appropriate tests, and run them for us. Maybe a place like Kronos would have the right collection, though they wouldn't be free.

[HighDesertWizard]

If you are going to experiment, you should also get some aging biomarker tests done, or some sort of blood work, just to have some objective evidence that something IS happening, good or bad (especially if bad things are happening).

Blood tests for TNF-a, IL-6, and NF-Kb (if you can find the last one) are implicated as being important, both/either in the scientific literature and/or by the experience of individuals, like Turnbuckle, who have experimented with this C60 potion. The studies that follow show, first, that SOD mimetics can suppress/decrease TNF-a and, second, TNF-a reduction can explain Turnbuckle's anecdotal experience with the C60/Olive Oil potion. This post makes good on my commitment up thread to provide references about Turnbuckle's experience and TNF...

================================================================
SOD (Mimetics) Suppress TNF, IL-6...

SUPEROXIDE POTENTIATES NF-[kappa]B ACTIVATION AND MODULATES ENDOTOXIN-INDUCED CYTOKINE PRODUCTION IN ALVEOLAR MACROPHAGES

"... Here we sought to characterize the mechanism of action of a synthetic, nonpeptide, low-molecular-weight, Mn-containing superoxide dismutase mimetic (SODm), M40403, in modulating E. coli lipopolysaccharide serotype 0111:B4 (LPS)-induced cytokine production by cultured rat alveolar macrophages... We found that M40403 potently suppressed the production of superoxide, TNF-a, and IL-6 in LPS-stimulated alveolar macrophages, suggesting a key role for superoxide in endotoxin-induced cytokine production in the distal air spaces. In addition, M40403 decreased E. coli LPS-induced activation of NF-?B, and this effect was associated with modest suppression of cytoplasmic I?B-a degradation. Together, these results suggest that removal of superoxide by M40403 inhibits endotoxin-induced production of TNF-a and IL-6 in alveolar macrophages by a mechanism involving suppression of redox-sensitive NF-?B transactivation or signaling."

MnTMPyP, a superoxide dismutase/catalase mimetic, decreases inflammatory indices in ischemic acute kidney injury

This study investigates the effect of a superoxide dismutase mimetic, MnTMPyP, on pro- and anti-inflammatory cytokines in acute renal ischemia–reperfusion (IR)... MnTMPyP attenuated the IR-mediated increase in serum creatinine and circulating levels of interleukin (IL)-2 following 24 h of reperfusion. Furthermore, treatment attenuated increases in tissue levels of tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-α, IL-2, IL-4, and IL-13. MnTMPyP partially prevented the IR-induced infiltration of ED1+ macrophages and CD8+ T lymphocytes in the kidney. ATP depletion–recovery of porcine proximal tubular epithelial cells resulted in decreased IL-6 and IL-10 levels, and MnTMPyP partially restored these cytokines...

================================================================
TNF Reduction Can Explain Turnbuckle's Experience...

"Increased Exercise/Muscle Endurance"

Respiratory and limb muscle weakness induced by tumor necrosis factor-alpha: involvement of muscle myofilaments

TNF-α impairs insulin signaling and insulin stimulation of glucose uptake in C2C12muscle cells

"... We conclude that (1) TNF-alpha compromises contractile function of diaphragm and limb muscle similarly, and (2) TNF-alpha decreases force by blunting the response of muscle myofilaments to calcium activation."

"Hair Growth"

Effects of TNF-alpha and Minoxidil on Human Hair Growth in Vitro

TNF-alpha have inhibitory effect on the rate of linear hair growth in cultured hair follicles. Minoxidil has no stimulatory effect on the rate of linear hair growth and no protective effect on the TNF-alpha induced growth inhibition in cultured hair follicles.

Animal and in vitro Models for the Study of Hair Follicles

"... Interleukins 1 and 1, as well as TNF-, were identified as potent inhibitors of hair follicle growth in vitro, and histological changes in follicle morphology suggest these cytokines play an important role in the pathophysiology of inflammatory hair disease."

"Skin Improvements"

The receptor for advanced glycation end products is highly expressed in the skin and upregulated by advanced glycation end products and tumor necrosis factor-alpha

Edited by wccaguy, 07 June 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[HighDesertWizard]

The LEF provides lots of different kinds of blood test combinations... Here are two that would specifically get at the SOD Mimetic Hypothesis which the post above now suggests can explain Turnbuckle's experience.

http://www.lef.org/V...Blood-Test.html

http://www.lef.org/V...Blood-Test.html

[HighDesertWizard]

I've argued up thread that there is value in our developing Multi-Dimensional Explanations for the effect of the C60 Potion. Not proofs, but Explanations. Among other things, Multi-Dimensional Explanations provide the means to more easily demonstrate the efficacy of the potion intervention. More importantly, they provide us with a broader scientific literature to cross check our hypotheses against to ensure that our Explanations at one Dimension aren't Falsified by the literature of another Dimension.

Case in point... niner's hypothesis about a C60 adduct acting as a SOD mimetic has now been "cross checked" against Immune and Inflammation literature vis-a-vis Turnbuckle's experience. And I think his hypothesis now must be considered a stronger one as a result. The hypothesis is weaker without the cross check.

Another point about niner's hypothesis and the link to TNF reduction... TNF has been implicated as a major driver of many serious and non-serious disease states. As more community members participate in this experiment, all with different health/disease states, more positive health anecdotal stories ought to surface. If they don't surface, that should tell us something. But if/when they do surface, the first thing we look to see is if that positive health anecdotal story can be explained by TNF reduction. It should NEVER be possible to explain the story by a rise in TNF or inflammatory processes. That would Falsify the hypothesis.

Notice something else... I've suggested, more or less coherently at times, that potion efficacy could also be explained by increased effectiveness of the Vagus-CAIP-HRV nexus. Turnbuckle's experience is consistent with the hypothesis I've suggested. But I can't explain, at a detailed level, how that improvement of the V-C-H Nexus occurred by means of the potion. In contrast, niner's hypothesis can both explain Turnbuckle's experience and references literature about C60 being a SOD mimetic. His hypothesis assumes, however, that at least some C60 adducts are embedded in the cell, at least for a while. The rejuvenated V-C-H Nexus hypothesis, on the other hand, doesn't require C60 adduct embedding. The argument would be that a short duration rejuvenation of the V-C-H Nexus got the rats' own Innate Anti-Inflammatory machinery working effectively again and THAT's what accounts for their longer life span.

The point of mentioning all this is not to argue the details of these hypotheses. The point is to notice that we actually have some in place to design experiments around if a decision was taken to get funding to do these experiments.

If we're going to ask potential funding sources for more than a trivial amount of $ to explore potion efficacy, we need to be open to and serious about figuring out the Complete Explanation to develop strong and testable hypotheses and not just the Explanations we're the most familiar with and feel comfortable with. The more hypotheses we have, and the more we understand their specific strengths and weaknesses as hypotheses, and what must be done to Falsify them, the more we're going to feel comfortable looking funding sources in the eye and asking for non-trivial $ to test them without blinking...

I'm familiar with how to get at Inflammation/Immune Dimension Explanations. I've made mistakes when I try to explain things only in terms of what I'm familiar with. There is incredible expertise here related to, among other things, cellular, gene, and oxidation related explanations. As I incorporate those explanations in my thinking, the value of the Explanations I'm most familiar with isn't diminished, it's increased. In leveraging the remarkable depth and breadth of this communities' Collective Intelligence, I increase my own knowledge and ability to act in way that makes sense consistent with that knowledge...

Um, like, it's clear now what blood test to get.

Edited by wccaguy, 07 June 2012 - 06:23 PM.

[niner]

The LEF provides lots of different kinds of blood test combinations... Here are two that would specifically get at the SOD Mimetic Hypothesis which the post above now suggests can explain Turnbuckle's experience.

http://www.lef.org/V...Blood-Test.html
http://www.lef.org/V...Blood-Test.html

These are tests for tnf-alpha and IL-6 levels. If you had high levels of either of these prior to using fullerenes, and if oxidative stress was the cause of those high levels, then you might see them go down if fullerenes act as SOD mimetics. However, these levels might be high for other reasons, and levels might drop with or without fullerenes. If you didn't have high levels before dosing, you'd be unlikely to see anything. I think it would be better to measure the redox state more directly.

[HighDesertWizard]

These are tests for tnf-alpha and IL-6 levels. If you had high levels of either of these prior to using fullerenes, and if oxidative stress was the cause of those high levels, then you might see them go down if fullerenes act as SOD mimetics. However, these levels might be high for other reasons, and levels might drop with or without fullerenes. If you didn't have high levels before dosing, you'd be unlikely to see anything. I think it would be better to measure the redox state more directly.

I understand the point you're making. A couple thoughts...

First, for Turnbuckle to have experienced such dramatic improvement in hair growth, skin improvement, and exercise endurance due to lower TNF, would mean the pre- and -post-TNF level variance would have to have been significant. In individuals in TNF driven disease states, the variance should be the highest. I don't know that Turnbuckle's experience can be explained in terms of redox state. Maybe it can. It's not the "Dimension" of the puzzle I have deep knowledge of.

Second, using TNF as a measure means we can specifically pull in the CAIP literature dimension because TNF has been specifically shown to be reduced by the workings of the CAIP. And once the CAIP literature dimension is "IN the Explanation Game," the HRV literature, by default is "IN". And there is overwhelming evidence related to morbidity, mortality, and even Extreme Longevity (i.e., age > 100) that HRV is related to.

To be clear, I think your SOD Mimetic hypothesis is strengthened by the CAIP literature not weakened. TNF reduction is associated with higher HRV by a means that the CAIP literature explains. And a SOD Mimetic reduces TNF.

I'd be much more convinced of the value of using redox state as a measure if it could be linked to high HRV measurement in some way...

Edited by wccaguy, 07 June 2012 - 07:05 PM.

[niner]

.First, for Turnbuckle to have experienced such dramatic improvement in hair growth, skin improvement, and exercise endurance due to lower TNF, would mean the pre- and -post-TNF level variance would have to have been significant. In individuals in TNF driven disease states, the variance should be the highest. I don't know that Turnbuckle's experience can be explained in terms of redox state. Maybe it can. It's not the "Dimension" of the puzzle I have deep knowledge of.

Second, using TNF as a measure means we can specifically pull in the CAIP literature dimension because TNF has been specifically shown to be reduced by the workings of the CAIP. And once the CAIP literature dimension is "IN the Explanation Game," the HRV literature, by default is "IN". And there is overwhelming evidence related to morbidity, mortality, and even Extreme Longevity (i.e., age > 100) that HRV is related to.

To be clear, I think your SOD Mimetic hypothesis is strengthened by the CAIP literature not weakened. TNF reduction is associated with higher HRV by a means that the CAIP literature explains. And a SOD Mimetic reduces TNF.

I'd be much more convinced of the value of using redox state as a measure if it could be linked to high HRV measurement in some way...

I should let Turnbuckle weigh in on this, but my impression was that the only improvement that was dramatic was exercise tolerance.

The connection between SOD mimetics and TNF is tenuous, and the connection between TNF and CAIP is another layer of tenuousness. Why do we want to drag in another hypothesis? We should be looking at the most fundamental biochemical processes, rather than distantly related sequelae.

[Metrodorus]

Why do we want to drag in another hypothesis? We should be looking at the most fundamental biochemical processes, rather than distantly related sequelae.

I thoroughly agree here. Some of the posited 'explanations' of the action of the fullerene are going all over the place.

I am totally in support of niner here:
Some caveats:
1. We don't even know what molecule we are dealing with - whether the effect is caused by dissolved fullerene, or an as yet uncharacterised fullerene with side chains, or a group of fullerenes with side chains ( as there could be several bio-active reaction products) or indeed, a combination of the above all acting simultaneously in different ways. We know almost nothing.

2. Almost nothing is known about the metabolism of fullerene, either in water soluble form, or in the oil soluble form used in the rat study.

3. We have some very tenuous hypothesised methods of action ( SOD mimetic/and /or physical obstruction of reactive oxygen species/ and/or catalytic action on one or more of the complexes along the electron transport chain in the mitochondria). As these are themselves unsupported by any evidence whatsoever, just hypotheses thrown out there in various papers, some of which dealth with conjugates of fullerene that may be totally unrelated to the molecules we are discussing. To then go and build another layer of complexity above this might be entertaining, but it is somewhat premature.

4. It seems reasonable to posit the main action is mitochondrial - but it may not be.

Edited by Metrodorus, 07 June 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

A note on freezing the C60 solution:

I prepared a new sample of Pompeian Organic EVOO by first vacuum filtering to remove as much O2 as possible, then magnetically stirring with .5g/L C60 in a covered jar without air or light. In 24 hours there was no visible sediment so I filtered it and placed it in the freezer. Initially it had the classic magenta color. In 2 hours it had taken on a strawberry look when backlit (picture attached), and a dark brown, almost black appearance without backlighting. The viscosity was that of a thick honey. Returning it to room temperature restored the original clarity and color. There are two problems I saw with freezing. First, the C60 becomes non-homogenous because some components of the OO freeze out before others, and second, I expect it to eventually get too hard. I'd imagined you could eat it like ice cream but that now seem unlikely. I've had the base oil in the freezer for two days and it's hard as a brick. So I'm going to keep it in the refrigerator section instead.

A note on oxygen and browning:

If epoxides are forming with time due to the presence of dissolved O2, this will make the C60 more hydrophillic and thus reduce its oil solubility. Which might explain the change of a purple solution to a brown one that I observed previously, if fullerene epoxides began clumping. Processing without O2 and keeping the solution refrigerated ought to help.

Attached Files

•  Freezer half size.jpg   31.67KB   5 downloads

Edited by Turnbuckle, 08 June 2012 - 12:48 AM.

[zen]

A large-scale association study for nanoparticle C60 uncovers mechanisms of nanotoxicity disrupting the native conformations of DNA/RNA
http://nar.oxfordjou...nar.gks517.full

What is your take on this one?

[revenant]

Sorry to digress, but I want to chime in on a similar vein regarding the hypothesis that C60 may "reset" mtDNA. Rather than undoing the epigentic modifications, could it be possible that the C60 is acting as a reverse transcriptase inhibitor preventing transposons form copying?

http://www.springerl...1xl8741385827k/

These results imply that fullerenes can inhibit M-MuLV reverse transcriptase activity, with the inhibition of TMA C₆₀ slightly stronger than fullerol, and that their potential in treatment of diseases induced by RNA viruses such as leukemia virus needs further investigation.

[revenant]

A large-scale association study for nanoparticle C60 uncovers mechanisms of nanotoxicity disrupting the native conformations of DNA/RNA
http://nar.oxfordjou...nar.gks517.full

What is your take on this one?

Very interesting, and disconcerting. Thanks for posting it. Mentioned was the assumption that it prevents discontinous replication. Doesn't that mean that transposons and retrotransposable elements are prevented from copying? It also mentions possible telemorase activation.

Edited by revenant, 08 June 2012 - 05:38 AM.

[Raphy]

A large-scale association study for nanoparticle C60 uncovers mechanisms of nanotoxicity disrupting the native conformations of DNA/RNA
http://nar.oxfordjou...nar.gks517.full

What is your take on this one?

I posted the same study a few page ago, and the take was that "quoting random fullerene studies is useless".

Maybe you'll be more lucky

Edited by Raphy, 08 June 2012 - 08:50 AM.

[Raphy]

The point was that it lipo-fullerene and water-fullerene are not the same beasts and so we should not except them to behave the same.

Which is a good point I think.

[Metrodorus]

The following study is a case in point why extreme caution is required when using data from one fullerene study to make inferences about another, when different structures of fullerene are being tested for in the various studies:

http://ytao.rice.edu...letters2004.pdf

"the lethal dose changed by over 7 orders of magnitude with relatively minor alterations in fullerene structure'

So I stand by my earlier point - quoting random fullerene studies is not very helpful. A 7 order magnitude difference in effect is rather large.


We need studies ( which hardly exist as of yet) that do in vitro and in vivo testing of the various by-products of the fullerene olive-oil reaction, testing such things (listed in no particular order,and by no means an exclusive list):

1. phototoxicity
2. anti-viral activity
3. geno-toxicity in vitro with a variety of celllines, and ditto in vivo.
4. excretion mechanism
5. absorption/uptake/persistence within the organism
6. metabolism in the mitochondria
7. general metabolism
8. longevity effects in various animal models


Without these studies, we can make some very broad generalisations:

Edited by Metrodorus, 08 June 2012 - 11:30 AM.

[Metrodorus]

I came across this description of the reactions that take place with fullerene in fish oil: I presume the reaction requence is similar with olive oil:

I am looking for studies that discuss nano-fullerene clumping in oil solutions. So far, I have come across no studies.


Our new method for dissolving fullerene in salmon oil is related to specific π-π interactions of fullerene with phosphoglycerides-lecithines. The general formula of these compounds are:
<img file="US20080193619A1-20080814-C00001.TIF" he="28.70mm" id="EMI-C00001" img-content="chem" img-format="tif" inline="no" orientation="portrait" style="border: 0px; " wi="48.01mm" />
Where R1 And R2 are fragments of fatty acids. These bonds are ether of amine ethyl alchohol-holin (monoethanolamine).

HO(CH₂CH₂)—N—(CH₃)₂
In this manner the interaction between phospholipids and fullerene, or between sphingophospholipids and fullerene, is achieved:
<img file="US20080193619A1-20080814-C00002.TIF" he="10.16mm" id="EMI-C00002" img-content="chem" img-format="tif" inline="no" orientation="portrait" style="border: 0px; " wi="51.56mm" />
where n=12-18
This ensures the dissolution of fullerene in salmon oil. Dissolution occurs due to the interaction of free n-electron pairs from nitrogen and/or phosphorus with π-electrons of fullerene. The formed complexes (with coordination number 6) are stabile.
Analytical research using modern spectrometry methods has convincingly shown the presence of fullerene in salmon oil. This is confirmed by the results of the UF-test: the presence of an absorption peak for fullerene C60 at 328 nm.
Additional research by means of spectroscopic JMR ¹³C (Equipment: AM-500 “User”) confirm the existence of fullerene in the research material, and also confirm the hypothesized mechanism of fullerene complex formation in salmon oil.
After interacting with the lipids of the oil, the chemical mobility of the fullerene is changed to a slower relaxation. This leads to removal of the fullerene C60 signal (146 m.d) from the spectra. At the same time new signals appear in the phospholipids spectra as a result of the interaction with fullerene. They point to the connection points between fullerene C60 and the lipids (60-64 m.d.—fragments of moroethanolamines and phosphoric acids).
When bound by fragments to phospholipids, the stabile state of fullerene is ensured, resulting in a long time period where fullerene exists in salmon oil in an “active” state.

Edited by Metrodorus, 08 June 2012 - 11:48 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

A large-scale association study for nanoparticle C60 uncovers mechanisms of nanotoxicity disrupting the native conformations of DNA/RNA
http://nar.oxfordjou...nar.gks517.full

What is your take on this one?

It interesting that they say "The results show that the systems in the C60GC3 mode have much lower G_total [binding energy] than those in the C60AT3 binding modes, indicating the more favorable interactions of the C60 molecule with the GC-rich regions of DNA."

And then this from Wikipedia: "Human DNA has about 80%-90% of CpG sites methylated, but there are certain areas, known as CpG islands, that are GC-rich (made up of about 65% CG residues), wherein none are methylated. These are associated with the promoters of 56% of mammalian genes, including all ubiquitously expressed genes."

Methylation shuts down a gene. So if C60 is especially attracted to regions of DNA that aren't methylated (or aren't supposed to be), then you have to wonder if C60 isn't acting as a sponge for unwanted methyl groups and restoring function to genes that were accidentally silenced. A Mr. Clean for your genes.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 08 June 2012 - 12:02 PM.

[HappyPhysicist]

Here is my take of the safety of ingesting C60. Anyone doing this is doing so at their own risk. While all of us here are trying our best to determine the safety based on published reports, without clinical studies we won't know for sure.

You are responsible for the risks you are taking. This is uncharted territory and you must be comfortable with technical discussions here. If you base your decision on the presumption that others seem to know what they are doing, this does not absolve you from the personal responsibility of your decision to try it.

If you suddenly suffer massive organ failure due to C60 ingestion you have no one to blame but yourself.

Thanks,

Ben

[Anthony_Loera]

Because if what has been posted, i really think folks should follow the same process that the Paris researchers did, regarding making this material.

Going outside of this process may produce a material that is harmful rather than beneficial. So, don't mix C60 with other stuff, (other than olive oil). Thats my take from these last posts.

Cheers
A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197

[HappyPhysicist]

Anthony,

I agree that this is the most prudent thing to do. Having said that I think I am going to stop centrifuging mine because it is just too much of a pain. Instead I am going to 'double' filter mine now that I have a fairly rapid filtration process.

Keep in mind, my life expectancy is about 2 more years. So I have the luxury of not worrying about any long term effects of C60. If I were otherwise healthy I would certainly get myself I nice centrifuge and keep that step in the process.

Thanks,

Ben

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 08 June 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[niner]

A large-scale association study for nanoparticle C60 uncovers mechanisms of nanotoxicity disrupting the native conformations of DNA/RNA
http://nar.oxfordjou...nar.gks517.full

What is your take on this one?

Everyone should be aware that this is a molecular modeling study. It was done entirely on a computer, rather than in a test tube or an animal. "In Silico", as it were. This doesn't mean it's meaningless, but in terms of quality of evidence, I'd like to see how it connects to real world data.

[niner]

Methylation shuts down a gene. So if C60 is especially attracted to regions of DNA that aren't methylated (or aren't supposed to be), then you have to wonder if C60 isn't acting as a sponge for unwanted methyl groups and restoring function to genes that were accidentally silenced. A Mr. Clean for your genes.

C60 may be attracted to GC-rich regions, (depending on how much credence you put in molecular dynamic free energy perturbation theory), but how does C60 abstract a methyl group? Is there any evidence for such chemistry? I've not run across it.