3585 replies to this topic

[tintinet]

Before I started the c60 I would have a difficult time with the first couple reps, then it would get easier, now it's easy from the first rep, and I do get crazy pumps, but that's from the creatine. That stuff is the closest thing I've ever used to steroids.

I just started taking C60, a relatively low dose (3 mg BID). I haven't noticed much change in my workouts that I couldn't, so far attribute to placebo effect. What dose are you taking and how long was it before you noticed significant changes in your workouts?

[Allen Walters]

I have been taking a very low dose for a while 1ml@.8gr/L. About a week and a half ago I started 15ml@8gr/L pre workout, and that day it was easier. I added 10 lb to my bench after the first easy set, and did my normal. Three days later I added 10 lb more, and did 3 sets of 12, I would usually have to do 3/8 and work it up to 3/12 over a month. I will add 10 more next workout and see if the gains continue.

[niner]

Thanks for the reply, Allen. Seems like that's consistent with an increase in endurance. I wonder if the C60/OO is improving mitochondrial function, causing increased mitochondrial biogenesis, or both?

I've been wondering about this too. Methylene blue is known to improve mitochondrial function because it has a very low redox potential; only 11 mV. C60 has a triply degenerate LUMO that will allow it to undergo six successive one-electron reductions. That means it can essentially store up to six electrons. Each is harder to add than the last. These reductions are reversible, so it can also hand electrons off to other electron acceptors. I've been wondering if it acts like MB, picking up an electron from one part of the electron transport chain and handing it off to another. I tried to find the redox potential, but it's kind of elusive, since most such work has been in organic solvents, and we need to know how it would behave in an aqueous environment, or semi-aqueous. All I can figure out so far is that as the environment gets more polar, it gets easier to put the electrons on C60. The potential for the first electron is a couple hundred millivolts. That's not as low as MB, but it's pretty low by redox standards. All I can say from a theoretical point of view is that it seems plausible that C60 could make mitochondria work better in the mode of MB. If you look at people's reports so far, it seems like they are consistent with better mitochondrial function, and that given an adequate dose, they come on pretty quickly. It's the rapid response that is the one thing making me lean toward improved mitochondrial function, as opposed to biogenesis, but that wouldn't rule out biogenesis as another thing that could be happening. There's one argument against biogenesis, which involves hormetic adaptation. If I am remembering correctly, an increase in ROS will ultimately lead to biogenesis. C60, as a putative ROS 'sponge', might interfere with such a process, at least to some extent. Phenomenologically speaking, the net results toward athletic performance look pretty good so far...

[Junk Master]

http://nar.oxfordjou...nar.gks301.full

"More surprisingly, we found a specific upregulation of DNA repair proteins directly linked to increased oxidative damage during heart mitochondrial biogenesis, but only relatively minor changes in the mtDNA replication machinery."

Hmmm...

[revenant]

niner's last post supports my suspicion that C60 functions as a highly effective ubiquinone surrogate.

Edited by revenant, 28 June 2012 - 02:45 AM.

[Junk Master]

I'm starting to like the ROS 'sponge,' angle. The "aggressive" molecules produced by exercise reduce muscle performance, so an ROS sponge like C60/OO would immediately increase muscle endurance. Now whether C60/OO will inhibit adaptive response to exercise is another story.

[Logic]

I feel that the anti-pathogenic effects of C60 seem to have been ovelooked somewhat.
There is much talk of aches and pains that appear and then quickly fade after taking C60/OO.

Lister mentions not needing his meds for GERDS since taking C60/OO.
http://www.longecity...4-c60-log-mkii/

What is the possibility that these passing aches and pains may be Herxheimer reactions to pathogen die off?
Or perhaps the correcting of some other un-noticed condition?

[daouda]

I dont think that C60 disolved in oil are supposed to have an antibacterial action (but antiviral yes). C60 aggregates and C60 suspended in water (which probably means C60 aggregates also) do exhibit such properties by ROS induction, the opposite of what we are looking at with c60/oo. Actually it seems most things with antibacterial properties will present some degree of toxicity to some human cells as well. The "herx reaction" (something real but not that common) I think is something which have been abused by quacks to sell dangerous cures when it was actually the effect of a direct intoxication, and beleiving in it has harmed a lot of people whom have ben encouraged to keep intoxicating themselves thinking they were actually "killing pathogens". So we have to be careful in the absence of proof, and rather take any negative manifestation as a sign of toxicity before convincing ourselves it's a good thing.

I'll let the knowledgeable folks chime in and bring more light upon all this, but here's what Im thinking :
C60 do exhibit both ROS scavenging AND ROS inducing properties. C60 dissolved in oo is supposed to be a pure antioxidant, but what about its reaction with UV rays from the sun, or the possibility of some C60 aggregating somewhere in the body? Could we have some C60 (aggregates or UV exposed C60) producing ROS (and inducing some damage along the way) and some others (or maybe the same, post photoexcitation for example) absorbing these ROS a little later? Or am I talking pure nonsense?

[Junk Master]

Pretty interesting, Daouda. If C60 was both scavenging AND inducing ROS wouldn't that be a powerful longevity combination? As long as it was scavenging more than it was inducing? As has been mentioned before, ROS is not always a bad thing and does lead to mitochondrial biogenesis.

Fun speculation.

[daouda]

The phototoxicity thing is really bothering me (and for good reason that I will explain later). I know most ppl will hate the thought of possibly harming animals but I think the next long-term study attempting to replicate Baati's study should use bald rats and expose them (all of them, c60/oo fed ones, oo fed ones, and the control ones) to a UV source for a few hours something like 3 days per week at least.

Edited by daouda, 28 June 2012 - 02:26 PM.

[niner]

The phototoxicity thing is really bothering me (and for good reason that I will explain later).

There are companies selling cosmetics with fullerenes; if it's safe to apply them directly to skin, it seems like they ought to be safe internally from a UV excitation point of view. Still, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about it.

[golden1]

I didnt read huge thread, but did you guys look into these olive oil chemicals as possible links?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrosol
http://en.wikipedia..../Hydroxytyrosol
http://en.wikipedia....iki/Oleocanthal
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Oleuropein

I'm guessing you did, but just throwing it out there.

[jg42122]

The phototoxicity thing is really bothering me (and for good reason that I will explain later).

There are companies selling cosmetics with fullerenes; if it's safe to apply them directly to skin, it seems like they ought to be safe internally from a UV excitation point of view. Still, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about it.

Yes but I believe all of these companies are located in Ulraine and China I am not sure what type of testing they did before approving them.

[JohnD60]

The phototoxicity thing is really bothering me (and for good reason that I will explain later).

There are companies selling cosmetics with fullerenes; if it's safe to apply them directly to skin, it seems like they ought to be safe internally from a UV excitation point of view. Still, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about it.

Yes but I believe all of these companies are located in Ulraine and China I am not sure what type of testing they did before approving them.

And, like most cosmetics, the key expensive ingredient concentration is usually unstated and in the parts per million/billion range.

[Allen Walters]

Now that I've had a few more workouts, this is what I've noticed most. I can up my reps by 4 each time I work a body part. When I get to the point were I think the next rep is it, it's like it stops getting harder. I just feel like I can keep going, it is starting to feel a little like steroids. In fact, other than when I did experiment with steroids, I have never made gains this fast. Even when I was young.

Edited by Allen Walters, 30 June 2012 - 07:34 PM.

[cytg]

very very interresting stuff, but before we go munching on this stuff, i'd like some more field tests with fx.

1. Different size fullerenes C60 is just one.
2. Dosage, how much bucky for how much life extension .. for all we know it could be adequate to take it once pr week for optimal results.

Need more tests ...

Also, is mprize.org still relevant ? Maybe it could fund some research.

[Chook12]

I painted my homebrew c60 potion onto a slice of bread and fed it to my 6 hens for 7 days in a row. Now I have reduced the frequency to once a week. So far they have had 7 doses one day apart and then one dose a week later. I have been tearing up the c60 bread and throwing it in the chicken coop, and they then squabble over it. Because of this it is difficult to evenly share the bread between the chickens and I don't have time to isolate each one in turn. However, each one does at least get a bit.

So far no change in the hens, their laying, or their eggs, and they all look well. 2 of the hens are 4.5 years old, the other 4 are 1.5 years old.

[Rob Wegner]

I painted my homebrew c60 potion onto a slice of bread and fed it to my 6 hens for 7 days in a row. Now I have reduced the frequency to once a week. So far they have had 7 doses one day apart and then one dose a week later. I have been tearing up the c60 bread and throwing it in the chicken coop, and they then squabble over it. Because of this it is difficult to evenly share the bread between the chickens and I don't have time to isolate each one in turn. However, each one does at least get a bit.

So far no change in the hens, their laying, or their eggs, and they all look well. 2 of the hens are 4.5 years old, the other 4 are 1.5 years old.

I'm curious about the eggs they produce and whether any discernable health benefits are derived by consuming the eggs.

[cytg]

I painted my homebrew c60 potion onto a slice of bread and fed it to my 6 hens for 7 days in a row. Now I have reduced the frequency to once a week. So far they have had 7 doses one day apart and then one dose a week later. I have been tearing up the c60 bread and throwing it in the chicken coop, and they then squabble over it. Because of this it is difficult to evenly share the bread between the chickens and I don't have time to isolate each one in turn. However, each one does at least get a bit.

So far no change in the hens, their laying, or their eggs, and they all look well. 2 of the hens are 4.5 years old, the other 4 are 1.5 years old.

Could you try feeding them the soultion in days intervals relative to primes? Or fibbonaci ?I am sure that'd work greeeeat.

[Mind]

4.5 year old hens are pretty close to the "end" of their natural lifespan, correct? If the C60oo mixture has any effect you should notice soon, right?

[tweedlover]

I've read hens can live up to 20 years in captivity, so interesting study but could take a long time to produce conclusive evidence.

[d4shing]

Well, maybe the older ones will start laying more eggs? Who knows.

Back to the people - from paging through this 40+ page thread it seems like we have half a dozen extra large forum-dwelling 'rats' who have duplicated this experiment. A couple report nothing, a couple report some energy/fitness benefit, and a couple report other effects (increased sweating, improved skin).

I wonder if there isn't any way to be more systematic about aggregating feedback. Google spreadsheet or something?

[AgeVivo]

I painted my homebrew c60 potion onto a slice of bread and fed it to my 6 hens for 7 days in a row. Now I have reduced the frequency to once a week. So far they have had 7 doses one day apart and then one dose a week later. I have been tearing up the c60 bread and throwing it in the chicken coop, and they then squabble over it. Because of this it is difficult to evenly share the bread between the chickens and I don't have time to isolate each one in turn. However, each one does at least get a bit.

So far no change in the hens, their laying, or their eggs, and they all look well. 2 of the hens are 4.5 years old, the other 4 are 1.5 years old.

You should create your own thread with pictures for this experiment. Like here: http://www.longecity...dy/page__st__30 Otherwise it is difficult to believe you.

[Allen Walters]

I just applied some c60/oo to the back of my right hand, and went over it several times with a .5mm micro needle roller. I wanted to try it out on my hand first, just in case it colors the skin. I wouldn't want a red forehead.

[Chook12]

I painted my homebrew c60 potion onto a slice of bread and fed it to my 6 hens for 7 days in a row. Now I have reduced the frequency to once a week. So far they have had 7 doses one day apart and then one dose a week later. I have been tearing up the c60 bread and throwing it in the chicken coop, and they then squabble over it. Because of this it is difficult to evenly share the bread between the chickens and I don't have time to isolate each one in turn. However, each one does at least get a bit.

So far no change in the hens, their laying, or their eggs, and they all look well. 2 of the hens are 4.5 years old, the other 4 are 1.5 years old.

You should create your own thread with pictures for this experiment. Like here: http://www.longecity...dy/page__st__30 Otherwise it is difficult to believe you.

I initally didn't think there was enough to report to create a thread. However, have created one now and added a picture: http://www.longecity...ickens-at-home/

[sapentia]

My "rat" began his C60-OO supplementation this morning. Will report any noteworthy effects. This rat resistence trains and trail runs/hikes so some of the before mentioned physiological effects may be reproduced in this subject. This rat will also dermaneedle some of the C60-OO into the frontal scalp region to ascertain if there is the potential for hair growth stimulation as has been reported in another subject. The planned dosing regimen is 10 mL for 10 days after which a once per week dose will be taken. Additional supplements related to mitochondrial health include Bio-PQQ, Ubiquinol, and ALCAR. Following the first dose the "rat" did not have any significant effects to report either negative or positive.

[Turnbuckle]

Re hair growth, here is a 2011 patent application from Luna: Using fullerenes to enhance and stimulate hair growth.

It has been discovered that fullerenes can stimulate hair growth, restore hair growth in areas of hair loss, and induce the formation of new hair follicles. Described herein are methods for treating lack of hair growth or a reduction or loss of existing hair by stimulating and/or restoring hair growth, or preventing hair loss, comprising administering to a subject in need thereof a therapeutically effective amount of a fullerene. The administering may be repeated as necessary or desired to result in a desired level of hair growth and/or prevention of hair loss. The methods may be practiced with any fullerene, which may be delivered systemically or locally.

Other patent applications from Luna:
Fullerene therapies for inflammation
FULLERENE THERAPIES FOR INFLAMMATION AND INHIBITION OF BUILD-UP OF ARTERIAL PLAQUE

And more.

[Krell]

After reading here that some folks improved their weightlifting with +10mg daily doses of C60 in oo, I decided 5 days ago to increase my dose and see if I could increase my bench press. For several years I have been lifting once or twice a week with the goal of bench pressing my weight (185lbs) ten times (10x). I have been stuck around 3x for a year or more and 10x seems beyond my physiology. Note that after trying 185lb, I drop back to 155 and do set or two to exhaustion to make sure a get a training effect.

Back at the beginning of June I took 2.4mg C60 in oo for a week and then transitioned to one tablespoon (~14mg) once a week. 5 days ago I started taking 14mg every day. Today I did my normal Monday tennis and weight lifting routine after taking my 14mg C60 a couple of hours before.

Unfortunately I am still stuck at bench pressing 3x my body weight. No improvement to report.

I will keep up the 14mg dose through to next Monday and try my bench press again. Then I plan to go back to 14mg once a week unless new results suggest otherwise.

So factor in one more data point: 67 yro male, healthy, moderately well trained, no improvement on weight lifting after 5 days of 14mg daily C60/oo.

Note that My oo is bertolli light (0.8mgC60/ml) , so it may not have the extra polyphenols that the rat experiment oo had. I have some high polyphenol oo, but I have not started mixing it.

[Metrodorus]

Can people please report dosages, stating the concentration of the solution they are using in g/Litre, their body mass in kg, and the volume of solution in metric.

Saying you are taking 10mL a day is essentially meaningless without the other data. Some responders are doing this right,some are not.

Edited by Metrodorus, 02 July 2012 - 05:45 PM.

[Hebbeh]

Vaughter's 0.9 mg/ml solution. 2 droppers supposed to equal 1.5mg. I took 4.5 mg in 3 divided doses the first day and 3.0 mg in 2 divided doses in the last 6 days....this is the 8th day and continuing at 3.0 mg per day in 2 divided doses. I weigh 68.5kg and 55 years old. I stay fit and very lean...eat a very disciplined diet and weigh upon rising daily....my weight has dropped 1.5kg and this is very unusual as diet and activity hasn't changed. My exercise reps have increased and my tolerance to caffeine has noticeably deceased.