3585 replies to this topic

[Logan]

Anyone have any insight into whether the Sarah Vaughter product is worth investing in? I fear that dose may be too small to achieve what we are looking for here. Wouldn't it make more sense to extrapolate the dosage closer to what was used in the rat study?

I think this is what you are doing Anthony. Have you guys thought about doing your own rat study? Is it more than just you experimenting with such a high dose of C60?

[Logan]

Also, does anyone believe Sarah's "miraculous" report after taking her C60 solution? She is selling the stuff.

[niner]

Anyone have any insight into whether the Sarah Vaughter product is worth investing in? I fear that dose may be too small to achieve what we are looking for here. Wouldn't it make more sense to extrapolate the dosage closer to what was used in the rat study?

I think this is what you are doing Anthony. Have you guys thought about doing your own rat study? Is it more than just you experimenting with such a high dose of C60?

I think that Vaughter's (and Carbon's) products are a reasonable way to go if you have the money and don't want the hassle of making your own. It would certainly be cheaper, on a dollar per milligram basis, to make your own. Anthony is using the rat dose without scaling. That means that he's taking ~140mg per dose, and I think he's using the same dosing schedule. From the reports that people are submitting here, there doesn't seem to be much correlation between dose and response. Some people are seeing results with 2mg or less per day, Carbon, the guy who manufactures C60-OO in the states, saw nothing at 80mg. I think that the critical issue is what sort of condition you are in, and whether or not you are familiar with your athletic limits. People who lift regularly usually know exactly how many reps they can do with a given weight, so if it goes up, they'll know. I think that if people are in good shape, or if they are sedentary, they will usually not notice anything regardless of the dose.

There's been a lot of talk around here of getting animal experiments going. AgeVivo is giving C60 to his pet mice, and we're trying to get bigger things going. It's all in the c60health forum.

Also, does anyone believe Sarah's "miraculous" report after taking her C60 solution? She is selling the stuff.

Where was her report? I don't remember it, and couldn't find it on her site.

[Logan]

Anyone have any insight into whether the Sarah Vaughter product is worth investing in? I fear that dose may be too small to achieve what we are looking for here. Wouldn't it make more sense to extrapolate the dosage closer to what was used in the rat study?

I think this is what you are doing Anthony. Have you guys thought about doing your own rat study? Is it more than just you experimenting with such a high dose of C60?

I think that Vaughter's (and Carbon's) products are a reasonable way to go if you have the money and don't want the hassle of making your own. It would certainly be cheaper, on a dollar per milligram basis, to make your own. Anthony is using the rat dose without scaling. That means that he's taking ~140mg per dose, and I think he's using the same dosing schedule. From the reports that people are submitting here, there doesn't seem to be much correlation between dose and response. Some people are seeing results with 2mg or less per day, Carbon, the guy who manufactures C60-OO in the states, saw nothing at 80mg. I think that the critical issue is what sort of condition you are in, and whether or not you are familiar with your athletic limits. People who lift regularly usually know exactly how many reps they can do with a given weight, so if it goes up, they'll know. I think that if people are in good shape, or if they are sedentary, they will usually not notice anything regardless of the dose.

There's been a lot of talk around here of getting animal experiments going. AgeVivo is giving C60 to his pet mice, and we're trying to get bigger things going. It's all in the c60health forum.

Also, does anyone believe Sarah's "miraculous" report after taking her C60 solution? She is selling the stuff.

Where was her report? I don't remember it, and couldn't find it on her site.

"As I’ve only been taking it a few days, I’m a bit reluctant to mention the results, but what the hell. Just take this with a saltshaker of salt. I’m just one person with a certain medical history, and these are essentially single data points…
Background. I’m 60 years old and fifteen to twenty pounds above my ideal weight. Ten years ago I could run three miles to the gym, work out for two hours, and run back. Then I made the mistake of taking statins for high cholesterol. After some months I realized I was being chemically poisoned, so I stopped. My recovery was slow and incomplete. Years later I still suffered from it, but PQQ was a big help. The effects were noticeable in two days, and reached a plateau in one week. Still, I couldn’t run more than 100 yards without feeling I’d run a marathon. I couldn’t get enough air. Residual mitochondrial damage, in my thinking.
Then, four hours after ingesting 2 mg of C60 in olive oil, I went running. And kept on running. My god, I could breathe! The next day was the same. I ran a mile and a half, and I hadn’t done that since before Crestor. The effects seemed too quick to be the result of mitochondrial biogenesis, but it must have something to do with the mitochondria."

[Logan]

These aren't truly miraculous results or out of the realm of possibility, given some reports here, but I do think that after one dose, this is a pretty significant immediate positive result.

Edited by Logan, 27 July 2012 - 07:30 PM.

[niner]

These aren't truly miraculous results or out of the realm of possibility, given some reports here, but I do think that after one dose, this is a pretty significant immediate positive result.

Those aren't Sarah's results, they're from Turnbuckle, which I think are in the first few pages of this very thread. I believe it, although no one else has claimed the hair growth he reported.

[Logan]

I see now, I don't know how I missed that.

[mikey]

I am getting the Lifelength telomere test tomorrow. It's regarded as the best test because it tests the smallest ends. I did the Spectracell test and my anti-aging doctor/research partner rolled his eyes when we read it saying that I was 59, which is my real chronological age. But there's no way I'm biologically 59. I have almost no wrinkles - skin texture is like someone twenty years younger. I've been doing anti-aging protocols, supplements, diet, exercise since I was 14 under the mentorship of my biochemist father. So it'll be interesting to see what the Lifelength test says. After I get that test I'll start on the mix that I bought from Carbon's site. I'll finalize my daily dosage before I start tomorrow and then see what happens to my telomeres after a couple of months. I assume that between the telomere test and blood tests and subjective things I'll have a good idea of what the fullerenes are doing.

[mikey]

Would you argue that the added strength is comparable to steroids, which can suppress the immune system? I bring this up in light of Japanese researchers learning that the protein C1q is responsible for aging -- and that suppressing C1q suppresses the immune system and improves longevity. See: Scientists discover protein responsible of ageing in Japan

I'll comment for the heck. Anabolic steroids were shown to improve cell mediated immune function and so the work our organization did made them a standard of care in HIV medicine. They are not immuno-suppresive. Corticosteroids are immunosuppressive, but anabolic steroids, like testosterone, strengthen useful immune function.

Edited by mikey, 29 July 2012 - 07:06 PM.

[AgeVivo]

I have almost no wrinkles - skin texture is like someone twenty years younger

Is it you on the picture next to your posts? I see black and white hair - can't see skin well. All the best

[mikey]

Yes. Dark and white. Hair is an interesting topic. About 3 years ago I started taking a tocotrienol supplement because of data showing beneficial effects on blood lipids, so I started taking it. Five months later I'm at the gym and look in the mirror and my hair looks thicker - like more hair. My workout partner is a world-class digital graphic artist and he saw it too. Then about a week later a friend I see every couple months came to visit and the first thing he said was, "Your hair looks thicker. You look younger again. What are you doing?" Without prompting. I had heard that Carotech, the tocotrienol manufacturer had a non-published 8-month study showing ~41 % more hair count. The theory is that follicles are harmed by superoxide, because as we age we make less SOD to control SO. Follicles don't die but become dysfunctional. Seemingly the tocotrienols are the right antioxidants to handle the SO and then the follicles can function normally, meaning grow. I gave the idea to a smart doctor friend and about five months later he messaged me that his hair was definitely thicker - more hair count - and everyone around him noticed it. The other interesting effect I've seen is that after taking the tocotrienols for about 18 months my hair darkened a shade or two, also confirmed by people who've known me for a few years. This might be because we produce hydrogen peroxide, which unless controlled can lighten, grey and whiten hair. If the tocotrienols handle hydrogen peroxide hair might re-gain some color. The tocotrienol product that I'm using is licensed as Tocomin Suprabio and there are several companies selling their version, including Life Extension Foundation. Suggested dosage is 2 a day. I take 4. Because more is more.
You can see my skin better at: http://www.michaelmooney.net/bio.html

[Turnbuckle]

Here's a picture of the Black Oil of Turnbuckle. It's black because the .5mg/ml of fullerenes is 30% C70 and higher (with the balance being C60), and fullerenes of different molecular weights exhibit different colors, combining to a dark brown that appears black in bulk. I've now taken this eleven times over the past few weeks, generally a tablespoon full. My dogs have tried it and my wife has as well--she takes it when she wants to feel smarter. So far I've found no negatives and it may even be better than C60, though that's hard to say since the effects of fullerenes are so persistent.

Attached Files

•  THE BLACK OIL OF TURNBUCKLE.jpg   50.03KB   12 downloads

[AgeVivo]

he he

[mikey]

So I got the LifeLength telomere test this morning and started taking Carbon's C60, 12 mg. My best friend, who is 32 started with 2 mg.
We both felt it. I just feel like I'm standing up straighter and there's a feeling of internal power. He echo's what I'm feeling.
I'll get the results of the telomere test in about two weeks. I'll re-do the test in some amount of time - maybe 3 months, maybe 6 and I expect to see that the C60 has lengthened my telomeres.
I generally do 2 to 4 comprehensive blood tests a year, looking at all kinds of things. I expect that there will be changes in my blood tests using C60. This is going to be FUN 300 years!

[JohnD60]

Here's a picture of the Black Oil of Turnbuckle. It's black because the .5mg/ml of fullerenes is 30% C70 and higher (with the balance being C60), and fullerenes of different molecular weights exhibit different colors, combining to a dark brown that appears black in bulk. I've now taken this eleven times over the past few weeks, generally a tablespoon full. My dogs have tried it and my wife has as well--she takes it when she wants to feel smarter. So far I've found no negatives and it may even be better than C60, though that's hard to say since the effects of fullerenes are so persistent.

I mixed the SES Research Fullerne Extract, I believe the same 70% mix you used, and it came out dark red.

[Turnbuckle]

Here's a picture of the Black Oil of Turnbuckle. It's black because the .5mg/ml of fullerenes is 30% C70 and higher (with the balance being C60), and fullerenes of different molecular weights exhibit different colors, combining to a dark brown that appears black in bulk. I've now taken this eleven times over the past few weeks, generally a tablespoon full. My dogs have tried it and my wife has as well--she takes it when she wants to feel smarter. So far I've found no negatives and it may even be better than C60, though that's hard to say since the effects of fullerenes are so persistent.

I mixed the SES Research Fullerne Extract, I believe the same 70% mix you used, and it came out dark red.

This was SES 300-6070 that I magnetically stirred into California Olive Ranch EVOO. The oil was rather light colored and didn't have any dissolved gasses--at least, it evolved no bubbles or foam when vacuum filtered. And perhaps the oil is making the difference. Previously I'd used a variety of olive oils with C60 and got a variety of colors--everything from magenta to a reddish brown to a whiskey brown.

The California Olive Ranch I've come to prefer because it's packaged in a dark bottle, has no dissolved gas, and has the freshest taste.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 31 July 2012 - 01:27 AM.

[AgeVivo]

sincerely, I think that our knowledge of life extension and long term health is far too limited today to think that variants of C60 (eg C70+snake oil+tocotrienol venom) would extend lifespan rather than shorten lifespan.

Animal lifespan tests is some first step, correctly documented follow up studies in people is another one; if you don't test your variants on such approaches I wonder how people can believe that the variants have more than 50% chance do good to them in the medium/long term.

Edited by AgeVivo, 31 July 2012 - 01:35 PM.

[Junk Master]

AgeVivo, respectfully, 50 % chance to do good in the medium/long term would be great odds if the chance of doing irreparable harm in the short/medium term is negligible.

[JohnD60]

This was SES 300-6070 that I magnetically stirred into California Olive Ranch EVOO. The oil was rather light colored and didn't have any dissolved gasses--at least, it evolved no bubbles or foam when vacuum filtered. And perhaps the oil is making the difference. Previously I'd used a variety of olive oils with C60 and got a variety of colors--everything from magenta to a reddish brown to a whiskey brown.

Yes, I also used the 300-6070, magnetically stirred. I have mixed it with both CaOR EVOO and Bertolli EVOO and have gotten the same dark red color

[Turnbuckle]

This was SES 300-6070 that I magnetically stirred into California Olive Ranch EVOO. The oil was rather light colored and didn't have any dissolved gasses--at least, it evolved no bubbles or foam when vacuum filtered. And perhaps the oil is making the difference. Previously I'd used a variety of olive oils with C60 and got a variety of colors--everything from magenta to a reddish brown to a whiskey brown.

Yes, I also used the 300-6070, magnetically stirred. I have mixed it with both CaOR EVOO and Bertolli EVOO and have gotten the same dark red color

This is mysterious. I suppose we'll have to call it the Red Oil of John.

[smithx]

I'd be concerned about black oil given what we know about these compounds.

Black is likely to mean that you have a lot of undissolved buckyballs, probably clumping together, and likely toxic.

[AgeVivo]

AgeVivo, respectfully, 50 % chance to do good in the medium/long term would be great odds if the chance of doing irreparable harm in the short/medium term is negligible.

Dear Junk Master,

don't take me wrong I am absolutely respectful. What I mean is that in my eyes by proposing some compound variants you have more than 50% chances to **cause harm** in the medium/long term (as for any medication that has not been tested in the medium/long term; the very vast majority actually). Smithx's comment suggesting that the black oil is likely toxic is a typical example. If you want to develop new compounds (or new medium/long term applications of existing coumpounds), I would suggest that you have it at least tested on rodent lifespan.

It is not easy nor cheap nor fast, but at least you have good arguments to believe that you are probably doing good (still weak arguments because we are not simply big rodents).

Concerning C60, there is very minimal evidence so far, which is why I am testing it in mice. My experience is not a reference at all unless my mice are still alive in say one year; troubles could always happen to the experiment, so the priority I think is to have others replicate the life extension in rodents as well and to be a little patients about results. And to test other approaches in parallel, at least because the C60 story could always end up being something unreproducible.

Best.

Edited by AgeVivo, 31 July 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[Junk Master]

I understand where you're coming from, AgeVivo. That's why I'm using a relatively small dose and limiting my exposure after this trial until there are more studies like yours. Thanks for your efforts.

[Lister]

So I got the LifeLength telomere test this morning and started taking Carbon's C60, 12 mg. My best friend, who is 32 started with 2 mg.
We both felt it. I just feel like I'm standing up straighter and there's a feeling of internal power. He echo's what I'm feeling.
I'll get the results of the telomere test in about two weeks. I'll re-do the test in some amount of time - maybe 3 months, maybe 6 and I expect to see that the C60 has lengthened my telomeres.
I generally do 2 to 4 comprehensive blood tests a year, looking at all kinds of things. I expect that there will be changes in my blood tests using C60. This is going to be FUN 300 years!

Thanks Mikey for your input. Thus far (and I may have missed a few posts) I haven’t see anyone else doing anywhere near as comprehensive self-testing regarding C60. I'm very interested to see your results.

As far as the discussion regarding potential positives and negatives I have to side with AgeVivo. I really don't know how many years of testing we would need to see a situation where we obtain some level of certainty regarding net positives/negatives. Given the life span of a Human how many years would it take? 5? 10? 15+?

I’m taking a dramatically lower dose (2mg/day) than the majority due to this risk factor. When the animal experiments have been verified a couple of times over perhaps that will be a good time to up the dose.

On a new issue is anyone else in the Lab Rat division experiencing issues with Vision or Hearing?

[niner]

So I got the LifeLength telomere test this morning and started taking Carbon's C60, 12 mg. My best friend, who is 32 started with 2 mg.
We both felt it. I just feel like I'm standing up straighter and there's a feeling of internal power. He echo's what I'm feeling.
I'll get the results of the telomere test in about two weeks. I'll re-do the test in some amount of time - maybe 3 months, maybe 6 and I expect to see that the C60 has lengthened my telomeres.
I generally do 2 to 4 comprehensive blood tests a year, looking at all kinds of things. I expect that there will be changes in my blood tests using C60. This is going to be FUN 300 years!

Thanks for the report- please do keep us posted as to any effects, either positive or negative, that you or your friend experience. The changes in your blood work should be particularly interesting, particularly if you are looking at more than the usual biomarkers. With regards to telomeres, there is reason to believe that C60 may slow the rate of telomere shortening: Telomeric DNA is susceptible to oxidative attack, as is other exposed DNA, but the DNA repair machinery that works well for regular DNA works poorly or not at all on the telomeres. There is a lot of evidence in the litterature for telomere shortening rate being due to more than just cell division, and redox stress is a common denominator in the various reports. Given the antioxidant nature of C60, it may be particularly helpful in this regard.

As far as I know, there's no reason to believe that C60 would lengthen telomeres. As such, I would recommend waiting a while for the next telomere test. Considering the error bars of the test, I suspect it will take a fair amount of time to see a difference.

[Turnbuckle]

I'd be concerned about black oil given what we know about these compounds.

Black is likely to mean that you have a lot of undissolved buckyballs, probably clumping together, and likely toxic.

It only appears black in bulk, as the color of mixed fullerenes is much denser. Here it is in test tubes. On the left is .65 mg/ml C60, and on the right .5ml/ml C60/C70, both in olive oil. The mixed fullerenes appears much denser even though it is 25% less concentrated. The other picture is of samples (not mine) of C60 and C70 in toluene.

Attached Files

•  DSCF11881.jpg   100.49KB   4 downloads
•  C70 color.png   120.61KB   4 downloads

[Turnbuckle]

As far as I know, there's no reason to believe that C60 would lengthen telomeres. As such, I would recommend waiting a while for the next telomere test. Considering the error bars of the test, I suspect it will take a fair amount of time to see a difference.

Not directly, I'd think. And while it is known that telomere dysfunction can cause mitochondrial dysfunction, I haven't found anything on the reverse. But it seems reasonable to suppose that it might, and conversely, if a cell isn't starved for energy, all its processes would work at a higher level including any process that lengthens telomeres.

...telomere dysfunction is associated with impaired mitochondrial biogenesis and function, decreased gluconeogenesis, cardiomyopathy, and increased reactive oxygen species...We demonstrate that telomere dysfunction activates p53 which in turn binds and represses PGC-1α and PGC-1β promoters, thereby forging a direct link between telomere and mitochondrial biology. We propose that this telomere–p53–PGC axis contributes to organ and metabolic failure and to diminishing organismal fitness in the setting of telomere dysfunction.

http://www.nature.co...ature09787.html

Edited by Turnbuckle, 01 August 2012 - 12:57 AM.

[tintinet]

So I got the LifeLength telomere test this morning and started taking Carbon's C60, 12 mg. My best friend, who is 32 started with 2 mg.
We both felt it. I just feel like I'm standing up straighter and there's a feeling of internal power. He echo's what I'm feeling.
I'll get the results of the telomere test in about two weeks. I'll re-do the test in some amount of time - maybe 3 months, maybe 6 and I expect to see that the C60 has lengthened my telomeres.
I generally do 2 to 4 comprehensive blood tests a year, looking at all kinds of things. I expect that there will be changes in my blood tests using C60. This is going to be FUN 300 years!

O ya, I remember feeling that way when I first started taking resveratrol in high doses (although ISTM the effect was likely caused by the emodin in the crude extract). Not so much with C60, so far, for me.

[mikey]

Anyone have any insight into whether the Sarah Vaughter product is worth investing in? I fear that dose may be too small to achieve what we are looking for here. Wouldn't it make more sense to extrapolate the dosage closer to what was used in the rat study?

I think this is what you are doing Anthony. Have you guys thought about doing your own rat study? Is it more than just you experimenting with such a high dose of C60?

I think that Vaughter's (and Carbon's) products are a reasonable way to go if you have the money and don't want the hassle of making your own. It would certainly be cheaper, on a dollar per milligram basis, to make your own. Anthony is using the rat dose without scaling. That means that he's taking ~140mg per dose, and I think he's using the same dosing schedule. From the reports that people are submitting here, there doesn't seem to be much correlation between dose and response. Some people are seeing results with 2mg or less per day, Carbon, the guy who manufactures C60-OO in the states, saw nothing at 80mg. I think that the critical issue is what sort of condition you are in, and whether or not you are familiar with your athletic limits. People who lift regularly usually know exactly how many reps they can do with a given weight, so if it goes up, they'll know. I think that if people are in good shape, or if they are sedentary, they will usually not notice anything regardless of the dose.

There's been a lot of talk around here of getting animal experiments going. AgeVivo is giving C60 to his pet mice, and we're trying to get bigger things going. It's all in the c60health forum.

Also, does anyone believe Sarah's "miraculous" report after taking her C60 solution? She is selling the stuff.

Where was her report? I don't remember it, and couldn't find it on her site.

I started out taking 12 mg, but it occurs to me that perhaps a large part of the longevity effect in the rat study was loading a high dose in the beginning for one week, which could cause radical improvements in metabolism. Then perhaps rather than gradually reducing the time between applications, decide on an arbitrary daily maintenance dose, perhaps 1/3 of the loading dose. Of course, we don't know what would be optimal for maintenance, but I would likely choose a higher median dose rather than a low dose.

I definitely notice more physicality, my movement is more precise. I have been a competitive athlete, so I am very aware of my body.

On the second day after I had gotten only about four hours sleep, I didn't feel tired at all until I dosed on a plane late at night.

[mikey]

I have almost no wrinkles - skin texture is like someone twenty years younger

Is it you on the picture next to your posts? I see black and white hair - can't see skin well. All the best

Yes. Aging is a mixed bag. I have very white hair on the sides. The top is where I grew more hair count and it darkened noticeably from taking the tocotrienols. I competed boxing and was teaching it up into a short while ago. I can spar with 21 year olds - my reflexes are equal to theirs. Of course part of that is the training effect built up over a long time period. My blood tests consistently show CRP at the very bottom of the scale. I take somewhere between 60 and 90 dietary supplement tablets a day, focused on anti-aging and have been focused on various anti-aging techniques since I was 14 under the guidance of my biochemist father.

So I'm eager to get the results of the LifeLength telomere test to see what it says, because I just can't believe the SpectraCell test that said that my telomeres say I'm 59.

But I will humby accept whatever results I get.