3585 replies to this topic

[Adamzski]

So should I start smoking this stuff mixed with hash oil?
haha but seriously I have wondered what would happen if I put a few drops of C60 OO in my ecig? I suppose that there could be no immediate effect that I could notice but what happens to C60 when it is vaporized?

[Turnbuckle]

So should I start smoking this stuff mixed with hash oil?
haha but seriously I have wondered what would happen if I put a few drops of C60 OO in my ecig? I suppose that there could be no immediate effect that I could notice but what happens to C60 when it is vaporized?

C60 sublimes at just under 1000 F, a lot hotter than your ecig. And before it sublimes, it will burn.

[Adamzski]

ah, yes they are vaporising from 40 to 65°C acording to http://www.fda.gov/d...h/UCM173250.pdf

Would the C60 burn then or change in anyway?

What could the effect of doing this be? Would you expect the C60 to make it into my lungs or be absorbed along the way?

[stephen_b]

The molecular weight of C60 is 720g/mol. That's kinda big. Given that oral absorption is so good, I see only downsides.

Edited by stephen_b, 26 November 2012 - 09:38 PM.

[Freebytes]

Kevnzworld, please do not leave us hanging regardless of your results with your wart (positive or negative). Also, do not use the oral and topical C60oo simultaneously. I would be very interested in hearing about your results. I was going to try something similar to see what would happen with various skin lesions I have, but I was considering using an oral method instead.

[sunshinefrost]

Hey Anthony!

You seem to be one of the members taking the large amount of c60 since a few months now right ? I have a question; i took a few 1,5 ml of sara's c60 and at first i thought my thinking process improved ... But after a few days I kept feeling foggy and not as sharp as usual... My question is: did you notice any difficulty processing information on this or do you advocate it's nootropic effect ? Thanks !

[sunshinefrost]

and how about this study, it worries me... can anyone comment on this


A large-scale association study for nanoparticle C60 uncovers mechanisms of nanotoxicity disrupting the native conformations of DNA/RNA.

Abstract

Nano-scale particles have attracted a lot of attention for its potential use in medical studies, in particular for the diagnostic and therapeutic purposes. However, the toxicity and other side effects caused by the undesired interaction between nanoparticles and DNA/RNA are not clear. To address this problem, a model to evaluate the general rules governing how nanoparticles interact with DNA/RNA is demanded. Here by, use of an examination of 2254 native nucleotides with molecular dynamics simulation and thermodynamic analysis, we demonstrate how the DNA/RNA native structures are disrupted by the fullerene (C60) in a physiological condition. The nanoparticle was found to bind with the minor grooves of double-stranded DNA and trigger unwinding and disrupting of the DNA helix, which indicates C60 can potentially inhibit the DNA replication and induce potential side effects. In contrast to that of DNA, C60 only binds to the major grooves of RNA helix, which stabilizes the RNA structure or transforms the configuration from stretch to curl. This finding sheds new light on how C60 inhibits reverse transcription as HIV replicates. In addition, the binding of C60 stabilizes the structures of RNA riboswitch, indicating that C60 might regulate the gene expression. The binding energies of C60 with different genomic fragments varies in the range of -56 to -10 kcal mol(-1), which further verifies the role of nanoparticle in DNA/RNA damage. Our findings reveal a general mode by which C60 causes DNA/RNA damage or other toxic effects at a systematic level, suggesting it should be cautious to handle these nanomaterials in various medical applications.

[Freebytes]

Sunshinefrost, where did you find that? Do you have a link? Also, this appears to be in reference to pure C60 which could be a completely different reaction from C60oo (if the lipofullerene interacts differently in vivo than C60, that is.)

There was a post from Turnbuckle about C60 merging with the helix structure, but this was to justify that it remained within the body and continued to work instead of simply being flushed out. He even posted pictures about the supposed fit if I remember correctly. (This may have been from another poster, though.)

[sunshinefrost]

now this study reassures me but i'm not sure if i interpret it correctly.... i don't know... i have no clue..... can someone with skills for reading these studies comment ? tell me where we stand on neuroprotection and toxicity for c60.


Neuronal uptake and intracellular superoxide scavenging of a fullerene (C60)-poly(2-oxazoline)s nanoformulation.

Abstract

Fullerene, the third allotrope of carbon, has been referred to as a "radical sponge" because of its powerful radical scavenging activities. However, the hydrophobicity and toxicity associated with fullerene limits its application as a therapeutic antioxidant. In the present study, we sought to overcome these limitations by generating water-soluble nanoformulations of fullerene (C(60)). Fullerene (C(60)) was formulated with poly(N-vinyl pyrrolidine) (PVP) or poly(2-alkyl-2-oxazoline)s (POx) homopolymer and random copolymer to form nano-complexes. These C(60)-polymer complexes were characterized by UV-vis spectroscopy, infrared spectroscopy (IR), dynamic light scattering (DLS), atomic force microscopy (AFM) and transmission electron microscopy (TEM). Cellular uptake and intracellular distribution of the selected formulations in catecholaminergic (CATH.a) neurons were examined by UV-vis spectroscopy, immunofluorescence and immunogold labeling. Electron paramagnetic resonance (EPR) spectroscopy was used to determine the ability of these C(60)-polymer complexes to scavenge superoxide. Their cytotoxicity was evaluated in three different cell lines. C(60)-POx and C(60)-PVP complexes exhibited similar physicochemical properties and antioxidant activities. C(60)-poly(2-ethyl-2-oxazoline) (PEtOx) complex, but not C(60)-PVP complex, were efficiently taken up by CATH.a neurons and attenuated the increase in intra-neuronal superoxide induced by angiotensin II (Ang II) stimulation. These results show that C(60)-POx complexes are non-toxic, neuronal cell permeable, superoxide scavenging antioxidants that might be promising candidates for the treatment of brain-related diseases associated with increased levels of superoxide.

i found both of these on NCBI.

[Turnbuckle]

and how about this study, it worries me... can anyone comment on this


A large-scale association study for nanoparticle C60 uncovers mechanisms of nanotoxicity disrupting the native conformations of DNA/RNA.

Abstract

Nano-scale particles have attracted a lot of attention for its potential use in medical studies, in particular for the diagnostic and therapeutic purposes. However, the toxicity and other side effects caused by the undesired interaction between nanoparticles and DNA/RNA are not clear. To address this problem, a model to evaluate the general rules governing how nanoparticles interact with DNA/RNA is demanded. Here by, use of an examination of 2254 native nucleotides with molecular dynamics simulation and thermodynamic analysis, we demonstrate how the DNA/RNA native structures are disrupted by the fullerene (C60) in a physiological condition. The nanoparticle was found to bind with the minor grooves of double-stranded DNA and trigger unwinding and disrupting of the DNA helix, which indicates C60 can potentially inhibit the DNA replication and induce potential side effects. In contrast to that of DNA, C60 only binds to the major grooves of RNA helix, which stabilizes the RNA structure or transforms the configuration from stretch to curl. This finding sheds new light on how C60 inhibits reverse transcription as HIV replicates. In addition, the binding of C60 stabilizes the structures of RNA riboswitch, indicating that C60 might regulate the gene expression. The binding energies of C60 with different genomic fragments varies in the range of -56 to -10 kcal mol(-1), which further verifies the role of nanoparticle in DNA/RNA damage. Our findings reveal a general mode by which C60 causes DNA/RNA damage or other toxic effects at a systematic level, suggesting it should be cautious to handle these nanomaterials in various medical applications.

Here is another one by a different group of researchers--C60 binds to and deforms nucleotides.

They did a simulation showing that C60 is attracted to the groove between DNA strands. And that may, in fact, be the secret of how it works, as it would act as a physical barrier to methytrasferase and thus demethylate mtDNA. I have more on this on my profile page. See section 4. C60 epigenetic theory.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 26 November 2012 - 10:30 PM.

[niner]

and how about this study, it worries me... can anyone comment on this

A large-scale association study for nanoparticle C60 uncovers mechanisms of nanotoxicity disrupting the native conformations of DNA/RNA.

Forget about it. This is just a crappy MD simulation that looks like it wasn't even done right. We've discussed it here in the past. In terms of quality of evidence, this is like an order of magnitude worse than an in vitro study, which is an order of magnitude worse than an in vivo study. This particular paper is actually worse than meaningless, as it's sending a lot of people on wild goose chases and getting them needlessly concerned. The authors' conclusions are unfounded; if I had been a reviewer, I would have sent it back for changes at the very least.

ps: It would be helpful if you could post a link, a full journal reference, or a PMID to make it easier for people to evaluate papers.

[Turnbuckle]

There was a post from Turnbuckle about C60 merging with the helix structure, but this was to justify that it remained within the body and continued to work instead of simply being flushed out. He even posted pictures about the supposed fit if I remember correctly. (This may have been from another poster, though.)

I've linked to that above. It's not my contention that it stays in the body, however, quite the contrary. I was postulating that its effects are persistant because it acts as a methytransferase inhibitor in the mitochondria, and thus makes changes to the mtDNA epigenome.

[Kevnzworld]

Kevnzworld, please do not leave us hanging regardless of your results with your wart (positive or negative). Also, do not use the oral and topical C60oo simultaneously. I would be very interested in hearing about your results. I was going to try something similar to see what would happen with various skin lesions I have, but I was considering using an oral method instead.

I had the wart frozen off 12 days ago. The wound was healing slowly until I applied the C60OO to it. Now it's dried up and healing quickly and some of the scab is coming off. Did the topical C60 do anything, who knows. I'm still applying it.
I am taking it orally as well, I've upped it to 2.4mg daily. I do not " feel " anything noticeable, but I've never felt anything noticeable from any supplement including testosterone.

[fntms]

From your description, these sound like warts. Warts seem to have some mechanism for evading the immune system, but if you remove the upper layers of dead skin and get down to live tissue, you can often get the immune system to wake up and finish the job. I'm speculating that there is improved oxygenation of the inner, living tissue from this, that c60 mimics this effect in some way, and either of these result in immune recognition. I'm looking forward to seeing the before and after pics.

I have a stubborn wart on my hand. I used a CVS topical, it allowed the virus to spread. I had it frozen off by a dermatologist a few months ago and that removed only half of it. I went back last week to have it refrozen, and though not yet healed, I can tell it is still there. I am going to use some of my C60 on it. Before pics taken.
Would it be better to leave it uncovered when I take my daily walk to allow the UV radiation to generate ROS, or keep it bandaged?

I am also trying a C60OO (from SV) wart cure. Would it be better to cut of part of it with a scalpel maybe, as mentionned in the first post quoted?

[Junk Master]

Kevnzworld, you didn't notice any effect from testosterone?! I'm guessing you weren't taking a gram a week, as is common in bodybuilding circles (or more with other anabolics added).

[Anthony_Loera]

Hey Anthony!

You seem to be one of the members taking the large amount of c60 since a few months now right ? I have a question; i took a few 1,5 ml of sara's c60 and at first i thought my thinking process improved ... But after a few days I kept feeling foggy and not as sharp as usual... My question is: did you notice any difficulty processing information on this or do you advocate it's nootropic effect ? Thanks !

Hi Sunshinefrost,

I don't advocate a nootropic effect with C60 Olive Oil. It really doesn't seem to do much in that area. I let go of taking resveratrol for quite a while, to see if the C60oo by itself maintained my energy...

Bad idea, I started feeling like I needed much more sleep over a period of 6 to 8 weeks... I did feel more tired, to the point where my better half actually started asking me... "Have you been taking your resveratrol?" and... after I told her no, she kicked me out of the house to go back to the office and get some X1000's I still have stashed from our last batch.

This morning, I feel so much better... that I have to attribute it to the Res.

In short, It may or may not make you live longer, but it certainly doesn't provide the benefits I have experienced with resveratrol.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 28 November 2012 - 04:31 PM.

[Kevnzworld]

Kevnzworld, you didn't notice any effect from testosterone?! I'm guessing you weren't taking a gram a week, as is common in bodybuilding circles (or more with other anabolics added).

I take 1/2 gram twice daily of 10% testosterone. It raised my levels from 250 to 800. I take it to restore normal levels, not for bodybuilding purposes. Ive been taking it for about five years.

[niner]

I take 1/2 gram twice daily of 10% testosterone. It raised my levels from 250 to 800. I take it to restore normal levels, not for bodybuilding purposes. Ive been taking it for about five years.

Wow, and you didn't feel anything? No change in libido? Nuthin'?

[david ellis]

I take 1/2 gram twice daily of 10% testosterone. It raised my levels from 250 to 800. I take it to restore normal levels, not for bodybuilding purposes. Ive been taking it for about five years.

Wow, and you didn't feel anything? No change in libido? Nuthin'?

Kevn's dose is twice mine. 50 mg vs 25 mg. My libido was waning when I started. The testosterone worked well for four years. Then despite the testosterone, my libido dropped again. 50 mg of pregnenolone brought it back. I was unable to take the testosterone every day because it made a spot on my back itch. WIth the pregnenolone I can take more testosterone without getting the back itch. I should have tried pregneolone earlier.

[xtronics]

I stopped the C60 - I am pretty sure it was making me tired ( I slept well - but lacked energy ).

The more I dug into the science, the less sure I am that it works as an antiox - it could be a hormesis effect - and then dosage is VERY important - too much could do real damage. I will wait for more experiments.

Might want to check up on all that have been taking this.

For the record, I was taking the dosage scaled by 1/6 for human.

[Kevnzworld]

I take 1/2 gram twice daily of 10% testosterone. It raised my levels from 250 to 800. I take it to restore normal levels, not for bodybuilding purposes. Ive been taking it for about five years.

Wow, and you didn't feel anything? No change in libido? Nuthin'?

It's been so long that it's hard to remember. There are times that I forget to bring it somewhere for a weekend and I don't notice anything. I'm sure my libido would be nil without it. I find that the only thing that makes me feel either worse or better in terms of energy and mood is food and exercise. I always feel better when I eat clean healthy light food.


Kevn's dose is twice mine. 50 mg vs 25 mg. My libido was waning when I started. The testosterone worked well for four years. Then despite the testosterone, my libido dropped again. 50 mg of pregnenolone brought it back. I was unable to take the testosterone every day because it made a spot on my back itch. WIth the pregnenolone I can take more testosterone without getting the back itch. I should have tried pregneolone earlier.

I also take a small amount of pregnenalone , progesterone and DHEA . Is your 25 mg a 10% cream? Some have a higher concentration. I may have to start taking arimadex to decrease my estradiol.

[Adamzski]

I stopped the C60 - I am pretty sure it was making me tired ( I slept well - but lacked energy ).

The more I dug into the science, the less sure I am that it works as an antiox - it could be a hormesis effect - and then dosage is VERY important - too much could do real damage. I will wait for more experiments.

Might want to check up on all that have been taking this.

For the record, I was taking the dosage scaled by 1/6 for human.

I also think that I slept more and better on C60. Not sure of the other effects, Placebo feeling of wellbeing maybe.
I will order again and try it out once a week.

Is there a preferred brand? I was taking the owndoc one

[sunshinefrost]

Hey Anthony!

You seem to be one of the members taking the large amount of c60 since a few months now right ? I have a question; i took a few 1,5 ml of sara's c60 and at first i thought my thinking process improved ... But after a few days I kept feeling foggy and not as sharp as usual... My question is: did you notice any difficulty processing information on this or do you advocate it's nootropic effect ? Thanks !

Hi Sunshinefrost,

I don't advocate a nootropic effect with C60 Olive Oil. It really doesn't seem to do much in that area. I let go of taking resveratrol for quite a while, to see if the C60oo by itself maintained my energy...

Bad idea, I started feeling like I needed much more sleep over a period of 6 to 8 weeks... I did feel more tired, to the point where my better half actually started asking me... "Have you been taking your resveratrol?" and... after I told her no, she kicked me out of the house to go back to the office and get some X1000's I still have stashed from our last batch.

This morning, I feel so much better... that I have to attribute it to the Res.

In short, It may or may not make you live longer, but it certainly doesn't provide the benefits I have experienced with resveratrol.

Cheers
A

Thanks for the clarifications. I have to admit that this was exactly how i was feeling.. Tired ! I couldnt focus whenever i tried it. I never got the initial feeling of energy i had when i first starte this. Anyways, i guess i was looking for a nootropic advantage but, sadly, feeling tired is the oposit really.

Edited by sunshinefrost, 29 November 2012 - 05:23 AM.

[sunshinefrost]

I stopped the C60 - I am pretty sure it was making me tired ( I slept well - but lacked energy ).

Might want to check up on all that have been taking this.

For the record, I was taking the dosage scaled by 1/6 for human.

Same here. I took 1,5 to 3 ml once a day for about 2 weeks.

Did you have an initial well being effect with your first dose ?

[xtronics]

Did you have an initial well being effect with your first dose ?

Really didn't feel anything - just slept deeply and dreamed. This could be a sign of doing harm.

[pleb]

Did you have an initial well being effect with your first dose ?

Really didn't feel anything - just slept deeply and dreamed. This could be a sign of doing harm.

why and how ?

[Andey]

Bad idea, I started feeling like I needed much more sleep over a period of 6 to 8 weeks... I did feel more tired, to the point where my better half actually started asking me... "Have you been taking your resveratrol?" and... after I told her no, she kicked me out of the house to go back to the office and get some X1000's I still have stashed from our last batch.

This morning, I feel so much better... that I have to attribute it to the Res.


Cheers
A

Misery of natural life ? ))

[Turnbuckle]

I stopped the C60 - I am pretty sure it was making me tired ( I slept well - but lacked energy ).

Might want to check up on all that have been taking this.

For the record, I was taking the dosage scaled by 1/6 for human.

Same here. I took 1,5 to 3 ml once a day for about 2 weeks.

Did you have an initial well being effect with your first dose ?

I've tried taking it continuously but each time found that my energy levels dropped after a few days. The best results I get taking it once a week. Look at using it as part of a long term program, not for an immediate boost.

[Anthony_Loera]

Bad idea, I started feeling like I needed much more sleep over a period of 6 to 8 weeks... I did feel more tired, to the point where my better half actually started asking me... "Have you been taking your resveratrol?" and... after I told her no, she kicked me out of the house to go back to the office and get some X1000's I still have stashed from our last batch.

This morning, I feel so much better... that I have to attribute it to the Res.


Cheers
A

Misery of natural life ? ))

Nope, i sleep very well at night and have no scruples... But laying off the res and only taking C60, really started to make me sleep more though.

:D
Cheers
A

[sunshinefrost]

I'm kind of worried with this potential hormesis effect and the toxic effect .... i really feel like i was lobotomized because i really have a hard time concentrating since i took this. I can usually be very focused.

is there any scientific data about c60's nerotoxicity ?