3585 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

I take melatonin, but not Epitalon.

That makes sense, for how would epitalon enhance melatonin production if the pineal gland in older subjects is calcified (which is apparently worse these days with fluoridation)?

[trance]

I take melatonin, but not Epitalon.

That makes sense, for how would epitalon enhance melatonin production if the pineal gland in older subjects is calcified (which is apparently worse these days with fluoridation)?

I had asked about just supplementing with melatonin instead of epitalon in the epitalon thread, and got this response:

http://www.longecity...240#entry544670

[niner]

... if the pineal gland in older subjects is calcified (which is apparently worse these days with fluoridation)?

Is there any evidence for pineal calcification being worse now than in the past, and is there any evidence linking it to fluoridation?

[Turnbuckle]

... if the pineal gland in older subjects is calcified (which is apparently worse these days with fluoridation)?

Is there any evidence for pineal calcification being worse now than in the past, and is there any evidence linking it to fluoridation?

As for the fluoride accumulation--

In conclusion, this study presented evidence that fluoride readily accumulates in the aged pineal. Fluoride may also accumulate in a child's pineal because significant amounts of calcification have been demonstrated in the pineals from young children [Cooper, 1932; Wurtman, 1968; Kerényi and Sarkar, 1968; Tapp and Huxley, 197 1; Doskocil, 1984]. In fact, calcification of the developing enamel organs and the pineal gland occur concurrently. If fluoride does accumulate in the child's pineal (this needs verification), the pinealocytes will be exposed to relatively high local concentrations of fluoride. This could affect pineal metabolism in much the same way that high local concentrations of fluoride in the developing enamel organ affect ameloblast function. Research is presently underway to discover whether fluoride affects pineal physiology during childhood: specifically pineal synthesis of melatonin.

http://www.icnr.com/...deposition.html

While I don't know of a study that plots calcification since the introduction of fluoridation, calcium fluoride (or fluorapatite, most likely) is more resistant to solubilization and so you'd expect it to build up more rapidly if it is concentrating in the pineal gland as described above. Also, there is a suggestion that calcification is associated with AD (by decreasing melatonin) and thus fluoride could contribute to the increase in that disease.

Melatonin is a hormone synthesized from the neurotransmitter serotonin and is found mainly in the pineal gland. Melatonin has been suggested to have several properties, acting both as an antioxidant and a neuroprotective agent. Melatonin synthesis decreases with age in all humans, but this decline is more pronounced in Alzheimer's patients. In fact, melatonin inhibits the formation of beta-amyloid protein. The mechanism responsible for this decline has not been fully elucidated, although it is known that the human pineal gland calcifies with age. Such calcification necessarily implies the existence of a tissue injury that, if not reabsorbed by the immune system, will act as heterogeneous nucleant for hydroxyapatite and will induce calcification.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19666212

Faster childhood calcification could also decrease the age of puberty, since the pineal gland keeps that in check. Fluoride in drinking water also affects the brain in other ways, such as by decreasing IQ: http://www.nap.edu/o...=11571&page=207

Edited by Turnbuckle, 15 December 2012 - 07:55 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

I take melatonin, but not Epitalon.

That makes sense, for how would epitalon enhance melatonin production if the pineal gland in older subjects is calcified (which is apparently worse these days with fluoridation)?

I had asked about just supplementing with melatonin instead of epitalon in the epitalon thread, and got this response:

http://www.longecity...240#entry544670

The other thread posted a paper that said melatonin interfered with telomerase in tumor cells, but there are also papers on pubmed that say it promotes telomerase in normal cells.

[tintinet]

Cells in culture, perhaps. But I still think it's exceedingly unlikely taking epithalon will beat a placebo over the course of a human life span. Still, I'm taking it. It seems to promote vivid dreams, FWIW.

Seems like you should invest in something with better odds, then. But here's a question: Is there any experimental evidence in higher animals (vertebrates, at least, if not mammals) that epithalon does anything useful? I guess there's Hugo, but I'm looking for something in the peer reviewed literature.

Better odds WRT extending human lifespan? Got any suggestions?

[stephen_b]

A couple of things I've noticed that may or may not have anything to do with C60. First up is social anxiety. I have very mild social anxiety when for example going to a party. I usually manage it very well, and it usually has the effect of wearing me out a bit by the end of it. Today at my spouse's choir party, it seemed absent. The second observation sounds a bit unlikely. Being that it was a choir party and given the season, there was a bit or caroling going on. I have a nice enough voice, and I can tell when I'm off key or not, though I have trouble finding notes some of the time. Today I was singing very well, on key, and blending nicely with those around me. I received some compliments and suggestions that I should join. So there you have it: C60, double your lifespan and improve your singing.

[niner]

... if the pineal gland in older subjects is calcified (which is apparently worse these days with fluoridation)?

Is there any evidence for pineal calcification being worse now than in the past, and is there any evidence linking it to fluoridation?

As for the fluoride accumulation--

In conclusion, this study presented evidence that fluoride readily accumulates in the aged pineal. Fluoride may also accumulate in a child's pineal because significant amounts of calcification have been demonstrated in the pineals from young children [Cooper, 1932; Wurtman, 1968; Kerényi and Sarkar, 1968; Tapp and Huxley, 197 1; Doskocil, 1984]. In fact, calcification of the developing enamel organs and the pineal gland occur concurrently. If fluoride does accumulate in the child's pineal (this needs verification), the pinealocytes will be exposed to relatively high local concentrations of fluoride. This could affect pineal metabolism in much the same way that high local concentrations of fluoride in the developing enamel organ affect ameloblast function. Research is presently underway to discover whether fluoride affects pineal physiology during childhood: specifically pineal synthesis of melatonin.

http://www.icnr.com/...deposition.html

The fact that this paper turns up on a fluoride hysteria site, next to an ad for fluoride-free toothpaste, might give one pause. There's no evidence in this paper that fluoride causes calcification of the pineal, or that fluoride causes any problems with the gland. Since the pineal gland consists of calcifying tissue, I suspect that calcification is driven by factors other than fluoride. There were wide variations in the degree of pineal calcification between different people, and it would be interesting to know what factors are important. In a later paper, the author (Jennifer Luke) showed that giving animals very large doses of fluoride suppressed melatonin output, but all that does is demonstrate the U-shaped curve that all micronutrients show. As usual, the dose makes the poison, and water fluoridation doesn't deliver a toxic dose.

Fluoride in drinking water also affects the brain in other ways, such as by decreasing IQ: http://www.nap.edu/o...=11571&page=207

This has been debunked previously in these forums.

Edited by niner, 17 December 2012 - 03:09 AM.

[g-5]

Stephen interesting observation
Your singing is a bit higher now or your strings have more stamina?

[pleb]

A couple of things I've noticed that may or may not have anything to do with C60. First up is social anxiety. I have very mild social anxiety when for example going to a party. I usually manage it very well, and it usually has the effect of wearing me out a bit by the end of it. Today at my spouse's choir party, it seemed absent. The second observation sounds a bit unlikely. Being that it was a choir party and given the season, there was a bit or caroling going on. I have a nice enough voice, and I can tell when I'm off key or not, though I have trouble finding notes some of the time. Today I was singing very well, on key, and blending nicely with those around me. I received some compliments and suggestions that I should join. So there you have it: C60, double your lifespan and improve your singing.

quite a few people have reported better lung capacity ? including me, perhaps that also helped with the singing , unfortunately i still sound like a cinder under a door,

[Turnbuckle]

The fact that this paper turns up on a fluoride hysteria site, next to an ad for fluoride-free toothpaste, might give one pause. There's no evidence in this paper that fluoride causes calcification of the pineal, or that fluoride causes any problems with the gland. Since the pineal gland consists of calcifying tissue, I suspect that calcification is driven by factors other than fluoride. There were wide variations in the degree of pineal calcification between different people, and it would be interesting to know what factors are important. In a later paper, the author (Jennifer Luke) showed that giving animals very large doses of fluoride suppressed melatonin output, but all that does is demonstrate the U-shaped curve that all micronutrients show. As usual, the dose makes the poison, and water fluoridation doesn't deliver a toxic dose.

Fluoride in drinking water also affects the brain in other ways, such as by decreasing IQ: http://www.nap.edu/o...=11571&page=207

This has been debunked previously in these forums.

I'm sorry if the site gave you pause, but I used that link because the full paper was there. Pubmed only has the abstract.

And yes, the paper doesn't say that fluoride causes calcification, which occurs anyway. My point was that calcification may occur faster as a result.

As for the later paper, can you link to it? I can't seem to find it. I would like to see this U-shaped curve.

As for Luke's paper having been debunked, how was it debunked? Did the people here show that fluoride does not deposit in the pineal gland?

[Turnbuckle]

There's no evidence in this paper that fluoride causes calcification of the pineal...

Flouride ions can cause precipitation--

Calcium fluorapatite is closely related to hydroxyapatite although it is very much more stable with a much lower Ksp. Fluoride can replace hydroxyl ions in hydroxyapatite crystals and such hybrid crystals are sometimes referred to as fluor-hydroxyapatite.

If some fluoride is added to a system in which calcium hydroxyapatite is in equilibrium with the ions in the surrounding aqueous phase the equilibrium will shift quite sharply to favour deposition of mineral (calcium fluorapatite) by acting as a common ion. Only very small concentrations of fluoride are required because at equilibrium the concentration of hydroxyl ions is extremely low.

http://www.oralchela.../calcium/p7.htm

Since there is more fluoride in the pineal gland than in other calcifying tissue, we can expect that it has not only played a part in calcification, but has speeded it up by acting as a common ion.

And to get back on track, melatonin then, and not a pineal stimulator, would be a useful adjunct to C60 for people older than 50 or 60.

Attached Files

•  melatonin with age.jpg   101.51KB   28 downloads

Edited by Turnbuckle, 17 December 2012 - 01:29 PM.

[niner]

As for the later paper, can you link to it? I can't seem to find it. I would like to see this U-shaped curve.

As for Luke's paper having been debunked, how was it debunked? Did the people here show that fluoride does not deposit in the pineal gland?

If you google jennifer luke, it will probably turn up. It was on some hysteria site. It wasn't Luke's paper that was debunked, it was the "fluoride causes lower IQ" meme that was debunked. It has never been shown that fluoride at levels found in fluoridated water has any effect on IQ. There is some pretty crappy epidemiology out of China that says fluoride POISONING is ASSOCIATED with lower IQ. Just look at the paper you linked; it's self-debunking.

The U-shaped curve comes from Paracelsus' dictum:

Paracelsus, sometimes called the father of toxicology, wrote:[13]

German: Alle Ding' sind Gift, und nichts ohn' Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daß ein Ding kein Gift ist.
"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."

Or, more commonly

"The dose makes the poison."

That is to say, substances considered toxic are harmless in small doses, and conversely an ordinarily harmless substance can be deadly if over-consumed.

Let's stop talking about fluoride in this thread.

[Turnbuckle]

As for the later paper, can you link to it? I can't seem to find it. I would like to see this U-shaped curve.

As for Luke's paper having been debunked, how was it debunked? Did the people here show that fluoride does not deposit in the pineal gland?

If you google jennifer luke, it will probably turn up. It was on some hysteria site. It wasn't Luke's paper that was debunked, it was the "fluoride causes lower IQ" meme that was debunked. It has never been shown that fluoride at levels found in fluoridated water has any effect on IQ. There is some pretty crappy epidemiology out of China that says fluoride POISONING is ASSOCIATED with lower IQ. Just look at the paper you linked; it's self-debunking.

The U-shaped curve comes from Paracelsus' dictum:

Paracelsus, sometimes called the father of toxicology, wrote:[13]

German: Alle Ding' sind Gift, und nichts ohn' Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daß ein Ding kein Gift ist.
"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."

Or, more commonly

"The dose makes the poison."

That is to say, substances considered toxic are harmless in small doses, and conversely an ordinarily harmless substance can be deadly if over-consumed.

Let's stop talking about fluoride in this thread.

Well, I can't find any later Luke papers, and I don't see how the other paper is "self-debunking." If you want to reply on the fluoride thread, that is fine with me.

[stephen_b]

Stephen interesting observation
Your singing is a bit higher now or your strings have more stamina?

My range is the same (light baritone), but my lowest and highest notes are more solid. Lung capacity might play a role (I continue to progress in running, and qualifying for Boston is an actual possibility in 2013). Much of what is needed to sing on key seems to be cognitive.

Last Sunday I took 15 mg of C60 before bed. I woke up before my alarm and definitely felt more energy. It would be interesting to repeat the experiment with just 15ml of the olive oil I used.

[Chupo]

So far, I've taken two 30 ml doses of C60, a week apart, from carbon60oliveoil.com. I haven't really noticed anything. I'm on a ketogenic diet though and I did notice more mental clarity and increased endurance when I adapted to the diet. So, it's possible that if I weren't keto I might have noticed something. I did pull something in my shoulder the other day at work. I don't know if it was a coincidence or C60 related.

[niner]

So far, I've taken two 30 ml doses of C60, a week apart, from carbon60oliveoil.com. I haven't really noticed anything. I'm on a ketogenic diet though and I did notice more mental clarity and increased endurance when I adapted to the diet. So, it's possible that if I weren't keto I might have noticed something. I did pull something in my shoulder the other day at work. I don't know if it was a coincidence or C60 related.

Chupoman, how old are you, and do you have any health problems? Young healthy people tend not to feel much, although experienced weightlifters may notice less muscle fatigue. About ten days after taking 6mg c60, I had what I think was a muscle injury in my back. I too don't know if it was a coincidence or c60 related, but I seemed to have a lot of inflammatory problems around then. I then tried a larger loading, 17.5mg over a week, and have not had any c60 for a little over 3 weeks. I've been feeling great lately, and have had an unexpected 10% increase in the amount of continuous watts I can crank out on a stationary bike with an ergometer. Back when I first started c60, I saw no improvement in this area, and in fact, if anything it felt harder to maintain the same level that I'd been at for years. I also have to join the chorus who thinks that their hair looks better. I wish I could say I see a lot of new hairs, but that's not what's jumping out at me. My hair just seems to be fuller and to have more "body". I'm having a lot less trouble with eczema of late, and my symptoms of postural hypotension that went away when I started c60 have yet to return.

So, after going through a brief period where I felt like I was seeing some negative effects, it's nothing but positives now. My next dose will probably be in a week or two.

[Chupo]

Niner, I'm 42 with no health problems. My injury was after about 10 days as well.

It's encouraging that you're feeling better with time. I started going gray in my twenties, just like my mother, so that's something I hope will turn around.

[hav]

I don't know if anyone else has tried this, but just for the heck of it I tried dissolving some activated charcoal in olive oil. It does in fact dissolve but near as I can tell, not as well as c60. There was noticeably more undissolved residue after stirring 80 mg in 100 ml of olive oil for 2 weeks. Compared with doing the same with c60. And although less seemed to dissolve, the color was much darker. A very dark green, instead of c60 red, which was so dark I could only discern it if I used a thinner layer of the oil mix.

Anyway, at least we know what to look for if someone tries selling counterfeit c60.

Howard

[niner]

I don't know if anyone else has tried this, but just for the heck of it I tried dissolving some activated charcoal in olive oil. It does in fact dissolve but near as I can tell, not as well as c60. There was noticeably more undissolved residue after stirring 80 mg in 100 ml of olive oil for 2 weeks. Compared with doing the same with c60. And although less seemed to dissolve, the color was much darker. A very dark green, instead of c60 red, which was so dark I could only discern it if I used a thinner layer of the oil mix.

Interesting. Activated charcoal has a lot of extended aromatic systems, kind of like graphite, but less homogeneous. It's hard to say exactly what the green color is caused by, but it might be some form of fullerene or related nanotube or capped nanotube structure that's reacting with the olive oil. I wouldn't recommend consuming it...

[hav]

I wasn't planning on trying it myself. But it might be good for an added control in another rat study. What I used btw was Country Life brand which I picked up at Great Pumpkin.

Howard

[Jehyst]

Hi!

Just thought I would put my 2 cents worth in about what I have experienced with the c60 so far. I am using Sarah's brew, and started with half a dropper ecah day for about a week. At first I noticed a little bit of a "calm rush" and that evening I couldn't sleep, even though I had taken phenergan and melatonin. That same night, I noticed considerably less neck pain and crunching/stiffness. Put it down to placebo effect at first, but now I'm thinking it does help with FMS pain/overuse etc. I have FMS/CFS, hashimotos and RSI.

Then started taking more since I hadn't dropped dead And noticed that it seem to have a die off effect, similar to colloidal silver - allergies flare up, itchy throat mouth etc. Was thinking maybe turnbuckles dogs may be experiencing die off of some sort...

One dramatic aspect that I know is definitely not placebo effect is that after a dose of a few droppers worth, the rsi, stiffness and pain in my hands goes away for a short while, then I am able to use my right hand more (lots of computer work, and usually have to swap and use left hand due to pain/stiffness/fatigue/burning). Then comes the usual FMS overuse crash, and my hand seems worse than before in terms of pain and burning, but have much more movement/less stiff.. It would be interesting to see what would happen with my hands if I loaded my system with c60 for more than a few days, and see what happens...

[niner]

Just thought I would put my 2 cents worth in about what I have experienced with the c60 so far. I am using Sarah's brew, and started with half a dropper ecah day for about a week. At first I noticed a little bit of a "calm rush" and that evening I couldn't sleep, even though I had taken phenergan and melatonin. That same night, I noticed considerably less neck pain and crunching/stiffness. Put it down to placebo effect at first, but now I'm thinking it does help with FMS pain/overuse etc. I have FMS/CFS, hashimotos and RSI.

Then started taking more since I hadn't dropped dead And noticed that it seem to have a die off effect, similar to colloidal silver - allergies flare up, itchy throat mouth etc. Was thinking maybe turnbuckles dogs may be experiencing die off of some sort...

One dramatic aspect that I know is definitely not placebo effect is that after a dose of a few droppers worth, the rsi, stiffness and pain in my hands goes away for a short while, then I am able to use my right hand more (lots of computer work, and usually have to swap and use left hand due to pain/stiffness/fatigue/burning). Then comes the usual FMS overuse crash, and my hand seems worse than before in terms of pain and burning, but have much more movement/less stiff.. It would be interesting to see what would happen with my hands if I loaded my system with c60 for more than a few days, and see what happens...

I'm glad to hear that it's helping. The 'calm rush' thing might be related to an autonomic response that a lot of people experience the first time they use c60. This has also been reported with NAC, suggesting that it's a general antioxidant effect. I have no idea what's going on with the allergy/itchy throat thing. Are you still getting that, or was it a one-time phenomenon? One of our other members had something like an allergic response that he thought was due to c60, but then he started noticing it from taking other things, so he's not sure where it's really coming from. Other c60 compounds have been shown to reduce allergic symptoms rather than increase them.

The effects you're seeing on RSI are nice. Chronic inflammation has a large ROS (reactive oxygen species) component, and c60-oo is helpful there. Let us know about how your FMS/CFS symptoms react to c60-oo. The paper below points out an increased level of oxidative stress in CFS, so c60-oo ought to help there. I'm pretty sure that people have found similar defects in FM.

J Intern Med. 2005 Mar;257(3):299-310.
Chronic fatigue syndrome: assessment of increased oxidative stress and altered muscle excitability in response to incremental exercise.
Jammes Y, Steinberg JG, Mambrini O, Bregeon F, Delliaux S.

Laboratoire de Physiopathologie Respiratoire (UPRES EA 2201), Faculte de Medecine, Institut Federatif de Recherche Jean Roche, Marseille, France. jammes.y@jean-roche.univ-mrs.fr

OBJECTIVES:

Because the muscle response to incremental exercise is not well documented in patients suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), we combined electrophysiological (compound-evoked muscle action potential, M wave), and biochemical (lactic acid production, oxidative stress) measurements to assess any muscle dysfunction in response to a routine cycling exercise.
DESIGN:

This case-control study compared 15 CFS patients to a gender-, age- and weight-matched control group (n=11) of healthy subjects.
INTERVENTIONS:

All subjects performed an incremental cycling exercise continued until exhaustion.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:

We measured the oxygen uptake (VO2), heart rate (HR), systemic blood pressure, percutaneous O2 saturation (SpO2), M-wave recording from vastus lateralis, and venous blood sampling allowing measurements of pH (pHv), PO2 (PvO2), lactic acid (LA), and three markers of the oxidative stress (thiobarbituric acid-reactive substances, TBARS, reduced glutathione, GSH, and ascorbic acid, RAA).
RESULTS:

Compared with control, in CFS patients (i) the slope of VO2 versus work load relationship did not differ from control subjects and there was a tendency for an accentuated PvO2 fall at the same exercise intensity, indicating an increased oxygen uptake by the exercising muscles; (ii) the HR and blood pressure responses to exercise did not vary; (iii) the anaerobic pathways were not accentuated; (iv) the exercise-induced oxidative stress was enhanced with early changes in TBARS and RAA and enhanced maximal RAA consumption; and (v) the M-wave duration markedly increased during the recovery period.
CONCLUSIONS:

The response of CFS patients to incremental exercise associates a lengthened and accentuated oxidative stress together with marked alterations of the muscle membrane excitability. These two objective signs of muscle dysfunction are sufficient to explain muscle pain and postexertional malaise reported by our patients.

PMID: 15715687

[Jehyst]

I'm glad to hear that it's helping. The 'calm rush' thing might be related to an autonomic response that a lot of people experience the first time they use c60. This has also been reported with NAC, suggesting that it's a general antioxidant effect. I have no idea what's going on with the allergy/itchy throat thing. Are you still getting that, or was it a one-time phenomenon? One of our other members had something like an allergic response that he thought was due to c60, but then he started noticing it from taking other things, so he's not sure where it's really coming from. Other c60 compounds have been shown to reduce allergic symptoms rather than increase them.


Thanks Niner

Will have to keep you posted about the allergy thing - it comes and goes. I get the same thing with candida die off (usually after taking colloidal silver which I havent taken for a while) so will keep an eye on things to know for sure.

Thanks also for the info. I am a good test subject for this I think because I am that fatigued and in that much pain that the placebo effect just plain old doesn't work on me lol. Will keep you updated.

[mikey]

I take 7 mg of C60oo every day and have taken this dose, basically, since August.

In the last week two friends who I hadn't seen since before I started C60 said, without prompting, that I looked younger and asked what I was doing. I asked how did I look younger and one of them said, "Less wrinkles."

I received my telomere test results from Repeat Diagnostics, the same one Greenpower had as he tried out several purported telomerase stims.



All six markers said I was 59, which I am. I took it after taking C60oo for about two months.

Spectracell ($295) said with only one test that I was 59 and LifeLength ($695), which is supposed to be very good said I was 70, but they lost my test for two months, so I challenged them saying that it appears that they actually gave me someone else's test results.

So strike one against Lifelength. They haven't figured out what happened and it's been almost three weeks since their CEO received my email.

At any rate, I will continue with just C60oo, taking no telomere lengtheners and get another Repeat Diagnostics test in six months, although I don't expect C60 to alter my telomeres, from what everyone is saying. After that I'll start on the Solgar Astragalus extract that caused Greenpower's NK telomeres to increase.

[Logic]

At any rate, I will continue with just C60oo, taking no telomere lengtheners and get another Repeat Diagnostics test in six months, although I don't expect C60 to alter my telomeres, from what everyone is saying. After that I'll start on the Solgar Astragalus extract that caused Greenpower's NK telomeres to increase.

NB that he was also taking Ginko Biloba when he saw the positive results.

[Turnbuckle]

All six markers said I was 59, which I am. I took it after taking C60oo for about two months.

That would make me suspicious, especially as they knew your age in advance. Considering that telomere length is only weakly correlated with age, getting all the markers to fall in the same year would be like winning the lottery.

Attached Files

•  Telomere length vs age.jpg   80.71KB   28 downloads

Edited by Turnbuckle, 27 December 2012 - 01:25 PM.

[niner]

Considering that telomere length is only weakly correlated with age, getting all the markers to fall in the same year would be like winning the lottery.

I agree. Thanks for the graph. Makes you wonder- is that real human variation or is that spread more a function of the precision of the method they use to measure length?

[trance]

Considering that telomere length is only weakly correlated with age, getting all the markers to fall in the same year would be like winning the lottery.

I agree. Thanks for the graph. Makes you wonder- is that real human variation or is that spread more a function of the precision of the method they use to measure length?

Or, in fact, does Mikey's vendor have any real way of measuring it?

[niner]

Another question about how we measure telomere length and what it means- Everyone is looking at blood cells, but what if they aren't representative of the telomere lengths in other tissues that we care a lot about, like nerves, muscle, bone and skin?