3585 replies to this topic

[GVA]

For what it's worth, I don't think c60/oo has made much, if any, long term improvement on my recovery times, endurance, or strength.
BTW Is there any evidence besides anecdotal reports of increased alcohol tolerance of this proposed "fantastic" increase in liver toxicity? With the liver being such a resilient organ, what sort of physical markers of improved liver health would we see besides more "energy;" since I find energy to be so subject to mood?

There can be this reference will help you to answer your questions?http://www.longecity...post__p__565059

[xEva]

Hi Guys, apologies if this has already been discussed. I recall the original study mentioned the C60 is excreted from the body of the rats quite quickly (within 10 hours I think). Does anyone know how this was determined? Did they examine the rat waste and find the same amount of C60 in it as they were dosing. How confident are we that it is also excreted from humans?

I second this request. Throughout the time that c60 threads existed I saw different takes on this. Some posts said that c60 was excreted within days or even hours, others implied that it was never excreted -? Some said that it was removed via kidneys -? Can someone please give a summary on how c60 is metabolized.

... I've looked at the time dependence of both the muscle fatigue effect and the anti-hypoxia effect in myself, and found that the muscle fatigue effect declined with a half life of something like a week to ten days, and the hypoxia effect lasts far longer. So long, in fact, that I haven't really found the point where the problem returns. The longest I've gone without c60 is about a month.

And what is its half life?

[niner]

Hi Guys, apologies if this has already been discussed. I recall the original study mentioned the C60 is excreted from the body of the rats quite quickly (within 10 hours I think). Does anyone know how this was determined? Did they examine the rat waste and find the same amount of C60 in it as they were dosing. How confident are we that it is also excreted from humans?

I second this request. Throughout the time that c60 threads existed I saw different takes on this. Some posts said that c60 was excreted within days or even hours, others implied that it was never excreted -? Some said that it was removed via kidneys -? Can someone please give a summary on how c60 is metabolized.

The pharmacokinetics of c60-oo could be described as biphasic. There is an initial rapid clearance phase, where it is disappearing from the blood. There is a second phase where the level of c60-oo in the body declines very slowly. Baati only looked at the rapid phase, and they didn't look for metabolites. The decline of c60-oo in the bloodstream is probably due mostly to the compound partitioning into membranes and other lipid depots, so it's not so much leaving the body as leaving the blood.

Considering the likely structure of the fatty acid adducts of c60, I kind of doubt that there's much metabolism. Maybe there is some oxidative modifications to the alkyl chains of the fatty acids. The compound may well get eliminated unchanged. My best guess for the elimination route would be fecal, because it's so hydrophobic. There is probably a burst of elimination shortly after dosing, followed by a much slower trickle as it gradually leaves the lipid depots.

... I've looked at the time dependence of both the muscle fatigue effect and the anti-hypoxia effect in myself, and found that the muscle fatigue effect declined with a half life of something like a week to ten days, and the hypoxia effect lasts far longer. So long, in fact, that I haven't really found the point where the problem returns. The longest I've gone without c60 is about a month.

And what is its half life?

The half life of the hypoxia effect? I can't really tell. It looks like the amount of c60 that I need to eliminate the symptoms is very small. I wasn't expecting to see this, so I didn't plan any experiments around it. If I had, I'd probably have started with microgram doses instead of milligram doses. I don't know if the loss of c60 from membranes is first order, or if there's some sort of biphasic aspect to that as well. All I can say is that it hangs around at a therapeutic concentration (which may be extremely low) for a hell of a long time. I'm dosing once a month.

[xEva]

Thank you niner for elucidating c60 metabolism. I am surprised that it basically amounts to a guess.

The pharmacokinetics of c60-oo could be described as biphasic. There is an initial rapid clearance phase, where it is disappearing from the blood. There is a second phase where the level of c60-oo in the body declines very slowly. Baati only looked at the rapid phase, and they didn't look for metabolites. The decline of c60-oo in the bloodstream is probably due mostly to the compound partitioning into membranes and other lipid depots, so it's not so much leaving the body as leaving the blood.

Considering the likely structure of the fatty acid adducts of c60, I kind of doubt that there's much metabolism. Maybe there is some oxidative modifications to the alkyl chains of the fatty acids. The compound may well get eliminated unchanged. My best guess for the elimination route would be fecal, because it's so hydrophobic. There is probably a burst of elimination shortly after dosing, followed by a much slower trickle as it gradually leaves the lipid depots.

.....

The half life of the hypoxia effect?

No, I meant the half life of c60.

I am amazed that there is no studies dealing with elimination of c60 from the body.

Edited by xEva, 09 February 2013 - 04:11 AM.

[niner]

Thank you niner for elucidating c60 metabolism. I am surprised that it basically amounts to a guess.

The pharmacokinetics of c60-oo could be described as biphasic. There is an initial rapid clearance phase, where it is disappearing from the blood. There is a second phase where the level of c60-oo in the body declines very slowly. Baati only looked at the rapid phase, and they didn't look for metabolites. The decline of c60-oo in the bloodstream is probably due mostly to the compound partitioning into membranes and other lipid depots, so it's not so much leaving the body as leaving the blood.

Considering the likely structure of the fatty acid adducts of c60, I kind of doubt that there's much metabolism. Maybe there is some oxidative modifications to the alkyl chains of the fatty acids. The compound may well get eliminated unchanged. My best guess for the elimination route would be fecal, because it's so hydrophobic. There is probably a burst of elimination shortly after dosing, followed by a much slower trickle as it gradually leaves the lipid depots.
.....
The half life of the hypoxia effect?

No, I meant the half life of c60.

I am amazed that there is no studies dealing with elimination of c60 from the body.

Well, it's such a new molecule that people haven't had time to do the experiments and publish the results. I hope we see some work coming out soon. I'm starting to think that we should try to talk some academic labs into looking at it, in the (hopefully unlikely) event that no one is working on it.

Baati at least did the blood levels, and I think he looked at dissected organs as well, but I don't think their methodology had a very low limit of detection. It might take a radiolabeled c60-oo to measure it at very low concentration, or maybe mass spec would be sufficient. At any rate, there's just a ton of work that needs to be done so we don't need to guess about it. (I like to think of them as "educated guesses", but it's still hypothesizing.)

I wasn't very clear when I said the half life of the hypoxia effect. It's all related to the half life of c60, but the muscle fatigue effect starts falling off at a fairly high concentration of c60 (at least it happened over a relatively short timeframe), while the elimination of hypoxic symptoms (caused by orthostatic hypotension) remains viable at a low enough c60 level that I haven't yet figured out how long I'd have to wait. The muscle fatigue experiment was kind of flaky, so my estimate of a half life there is pretty vague. If the half life of c60 were a week, my 15mg monthly dose would, after 12 weeks, be the equivalent of a 3 microgram dose. (.015g/2**12). If a microgram dose was sufficient to eliminate symptoms, then I wouldn't know for three months, or maybe longer if the half life is, say, 2 weeks. I'd like to repeat that muscle fatigue experiment, but I injured myself the first time around, and don't want to go through that again.

It's possible that the elimination of c60 from membranes is multiphasic. For example, the fatty acid adduct is unlikely to be a single species, because olive oil has several different fatty acids, but more importantly, a bis-adduct has several different regio-isomers. The two acids could be directly across the sphere, or offset to different degrees. Each regio-isomer would have a different free energy of incorporation into a membrane, and would clear at a different rate, but they are probably just about equivalent in terms of antioxidant or electron shuttling ability. The net result would be to see a shorter half life at first, and a longer half life later.

Andrievsky has a couple papers that show effects using HyFn at extremely low doses. I don't think we've plumbed the depths of c60 dosing by any stretch. Some of us are probably taking way more than we need. Baati's rats got so loaded up with c60-oo that I suspect full clearance took the rest of their lives, or at least a sizable fraction thereof.

[Nocomply]

Background:

I'm 23 with quite debilitating chronic fatigue and cognitive dysfunction; no obvious viral element, but occasional uncomfortable brain sensations, apnoea and similar subtle problems.

I don't really have the capacity to evaluate the science, but I've been sick for 11 years and frankly becoming more and more open to experimental ideas.

I was on different antidepressants from my childhood into my late teens. No benefit, but a lot of side effects. I'm not sure of the relationship, but I was intrigued by the idea of mitochondrial involvement.

C60 response:

I took 1.5mg of C60, ordered from Sarah Vaughter's site. Delivery was under a week to me in the UK, which was a nice surprise.

About 3 or 4 hours later, when I ate my evening meal my stomach started to feel uncomfortable. It was just a lingering soreness which lasted perhaps 6 or 7 hours into the night.

Two times I tried taking a methylcobalamin 1mg and 5MTHF 800mcg supplement orally. It didn't stop the soreness, but may have temporarily reduced it; I'm unsure.

The reason I tried to take the folate in particular, was that the stomach soreness was similar to my experience taking hyroxy and methylcobalamin previously...

It is just a feeling of my digestive tract being just sore all over, sometimes quite painfully so. When I first took 500mcg of hydroxocobalamin sublingually my stomach almost immediately felt sore like an allergic reaction. It progressed to nausea, immense fatigue, then later to aching bones and constant diarrhoea over the course of a couple of days. I thought I was going to have to go to the hospital, but decided to try a tablet of 800mcg 5MTHF and the symptoms began to dissipate almost immediately.

I don't know how to explain it. All I can guess is there is some bottleneck related to methylation and I push my body over the edge somehow. I can't say for sure it was the same reaction. The stomach soreness was similar in the fact that there was no accompanying diarrhoea, as that was the last symptom to appear after the B12.

My blood tests for B12 tend to be mid-high on the range and folate mid-low. My urine MMA and FIGLU weren't particularly low either, iirc. The only related tests I can think of have been homocysteine at the limit of the reference range and low methionine on a bloodspot amino acid test where every other amino was instead high.

I am really disappointed, but perhaps my experience can shed light on the activity of C60. I would recommend anyone who tries C60 to take the smallest possible dose at first, just in case.

Edited by Nocomply, 09 February 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[taho]

Have you experienced any change in chronic fatigue or cognitive function?

[Turnbuckle]

About 3 or 4 hours later, when I ate my evening meal my stomach started to feel uncomfortable. It was just a lingering soreness which lasted perhaps 6 or 7 hours into the night.

Most likely a coincidence.

[niner]

Background:

I'm 23 with quite debilitating chronic fatigue and cognitive dysfunction; no obvious viral element, but occasional uncomfortable brain sensations, apnoea and similar subtle problems.

I don't really have the capacity to evaluate the science, but I've been sick for 11 years and frankly becoming more and more open to experimental ideas.

I was on different antidepressants from my childhood into my late teens. No benefit, but a lot of side effects. I'm not sure of the relationship, but I was intrigued by the idea of mitochondrial involvement.

C60 response:

I took 1.5mg of C60, ordered from Sarah Vaughter's site. Delivery was under a week to me in the UK, which was a nice surprise.

About 3 or 4 hours later, when I ate my evening meal my stomach started to feel uncomfortable. It was just a lingering soreness which lasted perhaps 6 or 7 hours into the night.

Two times I tried taking a methylcobalamin 1mg and 5MTHF 800mcg supplement orally. It didn't stop the soreness, but may have temporarily reduced it; I'm unsure.

The reason I tried to take the folate in particular, was that the stomach soreness was similar to my experience taking hyroxy and methylcobalamin previously...

It is just a feeling of my digestive tract being just sore all over, sometimes quite painfully so. When I first took 500mcg of hydroxocobalamin sublingually my stomach almost immediately felt sore like an allergic reaction. It progressed to nausea, immense fatigue, then later to aching bones and constant diarrhoea over the course of a couple of days. I thought I was going to have to go to the hospital, but decided to try a tablet of 800mcg 5MTHF and the symptoms began to dissipate almost immediately.

Let me see if I understand this- The c60-oo caused a milder version of the GI pain that you got from hydroxycobalamin. You took both methylcobalamin and 5MTHF to attempt to reverse the effect, but it didn't work. The first time the problem occurred due to hydroxycobalamin, the 5MTHF reversed it rapidly. You also said that the first time it happened, you had taken both hydroxy and methylcobalamin, but later you said you just took methylcobalamin. So it sounds like methylcobalamin might have been at least partially at fault the first time(??) Then why take it as an antidote? Something's not adding up there. Be that as it may, I'm wondering if there isn't something going on with your gut/brain axis. C60 is known to produce autonomic symptoms the first time you take it, though not everyone experiences it. I'm just wondering if there's a connection there. The most common symptom, if one experiences this autonomic effect of c60 at all, is sweating, which is under vagal control. The effect has also been seen with NAC, another powerful antioxidant. NAC is obviously involved in methylation, though, which seems to be the thing that you have an issue with. Perhaps c60 is actually affecting methylation balance through an interaction with something like glutathione? It's been consistently observed that the autonomic symptoms go away after the first or second dose, both with NAC and C60, so it may be the case that you could take it again, hopefully at a lower dose, and not experience a problem. It should also be the case that GI symptoms or not, you now have some C60-oo in your body. It doesn't leave quickly. That brings up the question that was also posed by taho: How are your CFS and cognitive issues? Any changes?

[Kevnzworld]

Take methylcobalamin sublingually , it's more absorbable and avoids a GI pass.

[Nocomply]

Sorry, I was trying to avoid getting too long-winded, but missed out more than a few key details. I took a combined mB12 and 5MTHF because I had a bottle already open. I chose it as my adverse B12 reaction was due to sublingual dosing, whereas oral B12 never had such a profound effect, Also 5MTHF in the combination tablet seemed less potent. In the past when I took the B12/folate I had to be careful to balance them, as one time I didn't take as much B12 I experienced unexplained back ache (spinal inflammation?). B12/folate, when balanced, did improve my energy and particularly motivation/concentration, but I have put it on hold for now.

The mB12 experience was quite harrowing for me, so I am rather paranoid and perhaps eager to jump to conclusions. The only similar lingering GI soreness without stool changes I can recall was after taking certain sublingual B12 forms (I tried hydroxy and methyl B12 seperately, never tried cyanoB12). To me a coincidence seems less likely as I am usually quite in tune with GI problems and able to identify distinct pains from different reactions (Coeliac pains, sharp pains that pass clotted blood (Soy lecithin, coconut), and the B12). A transient effect seems entirely possible, in fact it was my hope and intention to try again. I didn't want to push through anything without posting my experience here, hoping to not sound either alarmist or reckless.

- I have experienced sweating and what felt like fluctuating body temperature.
- I have a slightly out-of-line knee problem that normally aches at night, which it did not until I stood on it; perhaps I slept on it awkwardly.
- I did and continue to feel less apprehension/reluctance to standing and doing tasks (I can't think of a word for it, but a feeling of my body trying to prevent me exerting myself, yet it feels physical or at least not anxiety-driven).
- Conversing with my mum this morning also felt like less of a strain, even perhaps a slight urge to do so; my mind didn't go blank as it often does.

On the night of taking it, although my brain still felt 'weird', I didn't get the uncomfortable 'zaps' or apnoea/swallowing problem that normally accompanies it. The following two nights, and particularly last night I struggled to stay asleep for longer than an hour or half an hour in one go (Not particularly unusual, but quite pronounced). I can't remember whether I experienced many zaps as my immediate memory tends to get wiped when it happens. Despite not sleeping well last night I woke up with only a feeling of tiredness around my eyes, but not the usual sickly feeling or having build up the energy to get out of bed.

Since the GI problem passed I will probably try a single drop at some point in the next couple of weeks to see if I can tolerate that. If i do, I don't know yet whether I will try a larger intermittent dose again or try smaller doses on shorter schedule.

Edited by Nocomply, 10 February 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[niner]

- I have experienced sweating and what felt like fluctuating body temperature.
- I have a slightly out-of-line knee problem that normally aches at night, which it did not until I stood on it; perhaps I slept on it awkwardly.
- I did and continue to feel less apprehension/reluctance to standing and doing tasks (I can't think of a word for it, but a feeling of my body trying to prevent me exerting myself, yet it feels physical or at least not anxiety-driven).
- Conversing with my mum this morning also felt like less of a strain, even perhaps a slight urge to do so; my mind didn't go blank as it often does.

On the night of taking it, although my brain still felt 'weird', I didn't get the uncomfortable 'zaps' or apnoea/swallowing problem that normally accompanies it. The following two nights, and particularly last night I struggled to stay asleep for longer than an hour or half an hour in one go (Not particularly unusual, but quite pronounced). I can't remember whether I experienced many zaps as my immediate memory tends to get wiped when it happens. Despite not sleeping well last night I woke up with only a feeling of tiredness around my eyes, but not the usual sickly feeling or having build up the energy to get out of bed.

Since the GI problem passed I will probably try a single drop at some point in the next couple of weeks to see if I can tolerate that. If i do, I don't know yet whether I will try a larger intermittent dose again or try smaller doses on shorter schedule.

Except for not sleeping well, it sounds like c60 is a positive for you. For everyone who's reported sweating, that's only been noted very early in use, perhaps even first time only. You clearly have an unusual physiology, so other people's experience isn't going to be a perfect guide for you, but I'd say there's still a good chance the autonomic effects will drop off in severity or stop altogether. It sounds like you have some chronic inflammation in your knee. There have been a number of reports of chronic inflammatory conditions improving with c60. Have you seen an orthopedist regarding your knee? It might be possible to improve the underlying problem a lot with the right kind of physical therapy. If you haven't already done that, it would really be worth a shot. I think it's quite promising that conversing was easier. People with CFS/ME/FMS have higher than normal oxidative stress, so c60 might be expected to be beneficial. Keep us posted as to your experiences. You might find yourself sleeping better as the stress of trying a new and unusual substance dissipates.

[mikeinnaples]

Once my c60 and EVOO arrives, I will be joining the other lab rats. I have been on the side line regarding this for quite some time mostly due to making sure that none of the rest of you keeled over dead from c60 related causes. I kid about that mostly, but I *did* want to get more information and let some time pass first. As I will be a complete c60 'virgin', I have the opportunity to attempt to duplicate some of the observations and experiences made by our posters here. With that said, I am going to give you a little bit of my background, physical state, and list some of my thoughts about what to observe. Any input or things you think I should add will be appreciated.

Physical Attributes:

38 y/o, Male, 6'1, 182 lbs

BMI - 24.0
Body Fat: 8-10% (estimation, my last actual is dated)
Athletic/Lean build

Significant greying / whitening on facial hair.
Slight greying on head, no balding, perhaps some receding hairline (so slowly I cant tell myself if at all)

Lifestyle:

I don't adhere to a 'paleo' diet, even though I do adopt many/most of its principals.

4/5 days a week in the gym. Avg: 1hr weight lifting / 30 minutes cardio per day
Supplemental exercise via surfing

Most likely at calorie deficit on workout days according to typical diet, CRON-o-meter, and calories burnt.

Occasional drinker. 1-2 / week on average. Sometimes more and sometimes less.

Non smoker for last 4 years / Former smoker for 18 years prior (off and on as I struggled to quite)

Health/Mental Issues:

Prior issues with Cholesterol and was on statin for 5 years. Managed now via lifestyle and Nicotinic Acid.

C5/C6 artificial disc replacement.
C3/C4,C4/C5,C6/C7 are still blown and unrepaired. Mainly chronic and not acute symptoms via referral discomfort, tightness, and trigger points

ADHD

Medication:

Metformin 500mg x 1/day
Adderal 20mg x 2/day

Supplements:

Every Day:

Nicotinic Acid - 2g

5 Days per week:

ALCAR - 500mg
Melatonin -3mg
Ultra Omega 3 - 500/250
NAC sustain - 600mg
LE Super K (100mcg mk-7, 1000mcg mk-4, 1000mcg K1)
Mag. Citrate - 400mg
Lysine - 2g
Beta Alanine - 2g
P-5-P - 50mg
Lutein/Zeaxanthin - 20mg
IP6 - 500mg
Green Tea Extract - 400mg (80% Total Catechins, and 50% EGCg)
Silymarin - 300mg (80%)

3 Days per week:

Methyl B12 - 1000mcg
TMG - 500mg
Benfotiamine - 150mg
Lithium - (5mg actual)

Other:

D3 - 5,000 IU, 1-2x/week depending on sun exposure


Observations to make / prepare for:

1. Before photos of physique.
2. Before photos of face appearance (clean shave)
3. Before photos of hairline
4. Before photos of facial hair with several says growth as this is where I am greying/whitening the most
5. I have basic and current labs already
6. Heart rate after 30 minute fixed pace / incline run.
7. Heart rate 2 minutes into recovery from #6
8. Before rep per set count at specific weight across multiple exercises. Assume 1 warmup and 3 sets with a constant weight.
9. Before weight

Comments:

I basically want to try and see what long term affects I may see in regards to some of my physical and age related characteristics. In addition, I want to try and duplicate some of the short terms affects in regards to strength/endurance that some of the other posters have experienced. I am pretty intune with my body and could probably give you accurate ancedotal reports regarding such, but it is better to have hard numbers. Not only that, to see if they are sustained over several reps / exercises. I also figure that I would rather run a slower pace than shoot for personal
bests at running because so much around that is subject to mental state, how you feel, etc.

I am looking at doing 30mg a month either a single dose or 10mg a day for three days in a row, once a month.

Any other thoughts as to what I can/should add? Anyone notice any possible interactions with the c60? (for example, like Adderal with MB)

Edited by mikeinnaples, 14 February 2013 - 07:22 PM.

[Chupo]

Any other thoughts as to what I can/should add?

If you have any scars, especially more recent, you might want to photograph them as well.

[mikeinnaples]

Any other thoughts as to what I can/should add?

If you have any scars, especially more recent, you might want to photograph them as well.

I have a year old scar on my neck from my surgery that is prominent as well as a scar on my forearm where I power washed the pigment out, heh. Numerous smaller ones obviously, but those are quite photogenic.

Edited by mikeinnaples, 14 February 2013 - 08:06 PM.

[Kevnzworld]

Any other thoughts as to what I can/should add?

If you have any scars, especially more recent, you might want to photograph them as well.

I'm in my fourth month of taking C60OO. I haven't noticed any effects on existing scars. I had some minor surgery a few weeks back, and I'm healing normally. I wouldn't be able to know what the healing would have been like minus C60. I agree with some other users who believe that those with some sort of mitochondrial dysfunction , FMS or other health issues are the most likely to " feel " effects.
I have noticed a difference in my strength and workout ability. I took a few weeks off from any exercise because of the aforementioned surgery. Normally I need to build back up after a layoff. I was immediately able to knockout 30 push-ups without much effort. I am also able to lift at greater than the weights I would have expected and more reps by a modest amount.

Edited by Kevnzworld, 15 February 2013 - 12:01 AM.

[tintinet]

I'll just check in here, again, with my continuing non-results. I've been taking 1.5 mg to 7.5 mg/day (average 4 mg/day) of C60EVOO since last August. I've used SV's, Carbon60's, Anthony's, and my own home mix. Haven't noticed anything dramatic. No increased strength, endurance, skin changes, hair changes, mood changes, nada.

[Freebytes]

After my consistent consumption of C60oo, I have been taking it on and off randomly. I have noticed absolutely no skin changes, changes to any skin anomolies or changes to scars. It seems to have absolutely no effect on scars when taken orally. You can do more testing on this, but there have been no positive reports for the healing of skin lesions or scars at this time. There has been a report or two in regards to its effects on rashes, but I do not remember the details.

[xEva]

I decided to join in on the fun and I just got my c60 99.99% from SES. At a glance, the stuff seems powdery, which of course is not sufficient to judge it on nanoscale... I am wondering whether I should grind it. The mortar and pestle I have are of marble, like this:

And marble seems too soft a material, likely absorb some of c60 into its porous structure -? And it is also likely to shed some marble dust -?

Question: should I use it at all? What can I use instead of a stainless steel mortar, which I don't have?

[mikey]

After my consistent consumption of C60oo, I have been taking it on and off randomly. I have noticed absolutely no skin changes, changes to any skin anomolies or changes to scars. It seems to have absolutely no effect on scars when taken orally. You can do more testing on this, but there have been no positive reports for the healing of skin lesions or scars at this time. There has been a report or two in regards to its effects on rashes, but I do not remember the details.

Both Turnbuckle and I have reported seeing deep scars fade away almost completely, so that they are only slightly visible.

As well, wrinkles on my face are less noticeable - as said to me by a good friend who I hadn't seen since before I started taking C60.
When he first saw me he remarked, "You look younger. What are you doing."
I asked, "Younger in what way?" He said, "Less wrinkles."

For instance, a wrinkle that was forming under my right eye is about 1/4th as deep, almost gone after taking C60oo that I buy from Carbon's company since early August.

[niner]

And marble seems too soft a material, likely absorb some of c60 into its porous structure -? And it is also likely to shed some marble dust -?

Question: should I use it at all? What can I use instead of a stainless steel mortar, which I don't have?

I don't think it would hurt to use it, but you will lose a little bit of the c60 in the pores, and will probably stain the mortar & pestle, if that matters to you. A little marble dust wouldn't hurt. One alternative that someone mentioned would be to crush the c60 between two spoons. I used the 99.95% vacuum oven dried stuff from SES, and the crystals were fairly large. They were really soft, though, and easy to crush. I used a porcelain mortar & pestle which I bought specifically for the c60, but I probably could have gotten by with spoons. I had a lot of c60 stick to the mortar. I scraped it off, and ground some olive oil to try to get some more off. The whole process was kind of messy.

I'll say one thing- crushing the c60 sped up the process of reacting by a LOT. The first batch that I didn't grind looks like it's about done now, three months later...

[niner]

I'll just check in here, again, with my continuing non-results. I've been taking 1.5 mg to 7.5 mg/day (average 4 mg/day) of C60EVOO since last August. I've used SV's, Carbon60's, Anthony's, and my own home mix. Haven't noticed anything dramatic. No increased strength, endurance, skin changes, hair changes, mood changes, nada.

This is about what I'd expect for a young healthy person. Here's what I've seen:

Effects that were immediate and obvious:

Hypoxia related: I have orthostatic hypotension due to a hereditary venous dysfunction. When I would stand up from a crouch, or occasionally from sitting, I would get light-headed. This was bothersome to me. As soon as I started C60 (I took the first dose in the evening, and noticed it the next day) the light-headedness went away.

ROS mediated muscle fatigue: I found that on a particular lift at the gym where I would lift until I couldn't do another rep, suddenly I could do what seemed like as many reps as I wanted.

Effects of alcohol: I don't feel as drunk for a given amount of alcohol, and the after-effects of alcohol are a lot milder.

Effects that I noticed later:

Inflammation Related: I've had eczema on my hands for about a decade, and had been unable to get rid of it, but kept it under control with topical steroids. After several months on c60, it has cleared up entirely for the first time since it started. I had a couple leukoplakic lesions on my arm that have cleared up. The only way I've been able to get rid of them in the past has been having them frozen with liquid nitrogen. Topical steroids will keep them at bay, but If I stopped the steroids they would come back. If I didn't get into the gym on a regular basis, I used to get various aches and pains. Now, despite not going to the gym for quite a while, I don't notice it.

Cosmetic: I think my hair looks better (which isn't saying much...) it seems to be more full. I might have a little more hair at the crown; not sure about that, but it kind of feels that way. No before after pics, though. I only have a few old scars, and I can't see any difference in them. It's normal for scars to lighten over time, which might have caused some people to think it was the c60, I dunno. I don't think my skin is much different, in terms of wrinkles, tone, and the like.

Infection: Twice now, I've had infections go through my family (colds and flu) and I got a little sick, but nothing like my wife and son. They were really sick with the flu, and I had a headache. Eventually I caught something from them, so c60 isn't a miracle there, but it really seems like it might be having an effect either on immune response or mucosal barrier function. If I had to guess, I'd say it was the latter.

Exercise: I don't feel any stronger, and didn't go up on any weights. For a long time, I've been able to fairly easily maintain an output of 110-120 watts on a stationary bike, but after about 6 weeks of c60, I noticed that this had jumped up to about 135 watts at the same perceived exertion level. I don't really know if that was from c60 or not, but I'd been at the previous plateau for an awfully long time, and hadn't been pushing it. Another exercise-related effect that is not so good has to do with the pain-free "liquid" feeling that I used to get after hitting the gym. I presume this was an endorphin effect. I don't get that now, which is kind of a drag, but on the plus side, I also don't feel so bad if I don't go to the gym, so I guess it's a wash.

I feel no mood effects whatsoever, and can't think of any plausible mechanism for mood effects. Maybe if your brain was hypoxic, c60 would improve your mood.

[docTorpedo]

I have a question, does the consumption of c60 really have to have any positive effects on health for it to be able to extend life? What if the health benefits are small while the longevity benefits are great...

[tintinet]

I have a question, does the consumption of c60 really have to have any positive effects on health for it to be able to extend life? What if the health benefits are small while the longevity benefits are great...

WRT human life, this may remain unclear for a long long long time.

[anagram]

I think I found some interesting evidence that may explain why c60 gets rid of the endorphin removal thing..
I got some phenylethylamine in the mail, and noticed after taking it that it got rid of c60 induced depression. It was very strange that after I took a few milligrams of the PEA I noticed that I could "feel" things in a way I could not while I was on c60.
I took some c60 after I spent about 30 minutes on PEA( yes it lasted that long as well, no MAO-I. strange) to test whether c60 does anything with PEA in vivo, and the c60 felt like it removed the "feeling" I was getting from the PEA. I decided to combine the two in olive oil and the effect was very strange, like it conflicted.

Perhaps c60's effect on life span is related to

less dopamine -> increased ornithine decarboxylase -> higher levels of polyamines -> life extension?


- maybe less dopamine release is a good thing?

Edited by anagram, 16 February 2013 - 04:55 AM.

[mikey]

And marble seems too soft a material, likely absorb some of c60 into its porous structure -? And it is also likely to shed some marble dust -?

Question: should I use it at all? What can I use instead of a stainless steel mortar, which I don't have?

I don't think it would hurt to use it, but you will lose a little bit of the c60 in the pores, and will probably stain the mortar & pestle, if that matters to you. A little marble dust wouldn't hurt. One alternative that someone mentioned would be to crush the c60 between two spoons. I used the 99.95% vacuum oven dried stuff from SES, and the crystals were fairly large. They were really soft, though, and easy to crush. I used a porcelain mortar & pestle which I bought specifically for the c60, but I probably could have gotten by with spoons. I had a lot of c60 stick to the mortar. I scraped it off, and ground some olive oil to try to get some more off. The whole process was kind of messy.

I'll say one thing- crushing the c60 sped up the process of reacting by a LOT. The first batch that I didn't grind looks like it's about done now, three months later...

Why are you crushing C60? They didn't do that in the study. And it seems like it would compromise the characteristics of C60.
Very curious.

[stephen_b]

Why are you crushing C60? They didn't do that in the study. And it seems like it would compromise the characteristics of C60.
Very curious.

To speed up dissolution in olive oil. The molecule is apparently very sturdy when it comes to physical pressure.

I used a marble mortar and pestle like you pictured. It did stain. I would use metal spoons next time.

[mikey]

Why are you crushing C60? They didn't do that in the study. And it seems like it would compromise the characteristics of C60.
Very curious.

To speed up dissolution in olive oil. The molecule is apparently very sturdy when it comes to physical pressure.

I used a marble mortar and pestle like you pictured. It did stain. I would use metal spoons next time.

So, you're sure that you're not destroying the 12 pentagons and 20 hexagons when you crush it?
If you do then you just have carbon, not C60.

[d4shing]

Why are you crushing C60? They didn't do that in the study. And it seems like it would compromise the characteristics of C60.
Very curious.

To speed up dissolution in olive oil. The molecule is apparently very sturdy when it comes to physical pressure.

I used a marble mortar and pestle like you pictured. It did stain. I would use metal spoons next time.

So, you're sure that you're not destroying the 12 pentagons and 20 hexagons when you crush it?
If you do then you just have carbon, not C60.

If you are strong enough to break conjugated carbon bonds with a mortar and pestle, I suggest you stop fucking around with C60 and start making diamonds out of charcoal.

[Turnbuckle]

Why are you crushing C60? They didn't do that in the study. And it seems like it would compromise the characteristics of C60.
Very curious.

To speed up dissolution in olive oil. The molecule is apparently very sturdy when it comes to physical pressure.

I used a marble mortar and pestle like you pictured. It did stain. I would use metal spoons next time.

So, you're sure that you're not destroying the 12 pentagons and 20 hexagons when you crush it?
If you do then you just have carbon, not C60.

It is possible to get chemical damage while grinding, though these are mainly through thermal effects during high speed grinding. Diamond is not the best grinding abrasive, for instance, as it can revert to graphite due to the heat of grinding. In a mortar and pestle, I'd expect to see very little molecular damage, especially for a spherical molecule.