3585 replies to this topic

[niner]

The A IV, Bioperine, and miroballan "fruit" extract were in a telomerase activating product sold by RevGenetics some time ago. They have since been selling only TA-65. I came across some more very expensive TA's a while a go in a very fancy bottle too. I can't seem to find it now though... Wasn't looking for it, just came across it.

Not everything in a formulation is there because it has the desired therapeutic effect. Bioperine was probably there to enhance the bioavailability of the A4. I have no idea about the miroballan stuff, but if it had any significant telomerase activating activity, I suspect we'd have heard of it. Is it in product B?

[YOLF]

Product B? The other I mentioned? I'd have to have bought it to find out. Not listed on the page where it's for sale, but it looked like an expensive perfume bottle with a long brushed stainless cap IIRC. Definitely metal in appearance. Wasn't going to buy to find out what was in it... don't like all that buy it mail it back stuff. wastes shipping money.

[Adamzski]

Where could I buy some ready made? http://www.carbonc60oliveoil.com/ seems to be no more.

Shipping to Seoul
I would like to get it couriered to me, fedex or DHL.
I was hoping to get it faster than owndoc.com

If anyone has some spare msg me!

[mikey]

Where could I buy some ready made? http://www.carbonc60oliveoil.com/ seems to be no more.

Shipping to Seoul
I would like to get it couriered to me, fedex or DHL.
I was hoping to get it faster than owndoc.com

If anyone has some spare msg me!

His site is still there.

http://www.carbon60o...m/products.html

Ah. You have a c in the middle of the URL you cited.
www.carboncoliveoil.com won't work., of course.

[blueinfinity]

ok this goes back and forth a lot, whats the general consensus on taking this? bad in aqueous solution so better to avoid completely, or...

if it is done in the right solution, it is ok? so buy from reputable vendor?

or ok just to make at home

[Adamzski]

Where could I buy some ready made? http://www.carbonc60oliveoil.com/ seems to be no more.

Shipping to Seoul
I would like to get it couriered to me, fedex or DHL.
I was hoping to get it faster than owndoc.com

If anyone has some spare msg me!

His site is still there.

http://www.carbon60o...m/products.html

Ah. You have a c in the middle of the URL you cited.
www.carboncoliveoil.com won't work., of course.

ok thanks.. I took the URL from here http://www.longecity...-sv-comparison/ maybe others have done this so he might want to get the link changed

[pleb]

ok this goes back and forth a lot, whats the general consensus on taking this? bad in aqueous solution so better to avoid completely, or...

if it is done in the right solution, it is ok? so buy from reputable vendor?

or ok just to make at home

The Aqueous solution is a different thing not what is used by the majority on here, its a Ukrainian invention,?

C60-00 three vendors all post at times on here all genuine

but very easy to make at home its very cheap probably the best bang per buck of any supplement going when you consider the results, and its theoretical effect,,

no problems in the short term,

and probably none in the long term either, but that's an unknown,,

[niner]

ok thanks.. I took the URL from here http://www.longecity...-sv-comparison/ maybe others have done this so he might want to get the link changed

I fixed it.

[solarfingers]

So many pages to read through. I've been reading for a week. I am wondering what the purpose of using the centrafuge is. I can understand that the product is expensive but if you're going to run it through a filter the only reason I can see is that of recovery of the undesolved particles for reuse. Also, why even bother filtering the product if it's going to pass through your system anyhow? Only the c60 molecules that can pass through the blood barrier are going anywhere of value. Am I just wrong in my thinking?

Thanks...

[niner]

So many pages to read through. I've been reading for a week. I am wondering what the purpose of using the centrafuge is. I can understand that the product is expensive but if you're going to run it through a filter the only reason I can see is that of recovery of the undesolved particles for reuse. Also, why even bother filtering the product if it's going to pass through your system anyhow? Only the c60 molecules that can pass through the blood barrier are going anywhere of value. Am I just wrong in my thinking?

No, you are just right in your thinking. The centrifuge is useless. If you have filtered through a 0.22 micron filter, then according to calculations posted somewhere in this forum, it would take about a million g's to pull down smaller particles. No centrifuge any of us will ever own can do that. It's also been shown that c60 aggregates pass through the digestive tract anyway, so many of us do not even bother to filter. The low tech method for making c60-oo is to crush or grind the c60, put it in the olive oil, and shake it periodically for a couple weeks. When the visible particles are gone and the solution is deep red, it's done. If you have too much c60 for the volume of olive oil, the particles may never disappear entirely. It's easier to make a lower concentration, like 0.5-0.7mg/ml.

[solarfingers]

Thank you Niner... Is there any danger of destroying the c60s or is it a very robust structure? I would think the longer you crush it the less the aggregates.

Thanks...

[niner]

Is there any danger of destroying the c60s or is it a very robust structure? I would think the longer you crush it the less the aggregates.

There's no danger of hurting it by anything that you might do by hand. If you got it hot enough, that could be a problem. The finer the particles you start with, the quicker the reaction with olive oil will go.

[solarfingers]

Good to know. Have you heard of anyone taking astralagus in tandum with c60 oil? I'ld like to hear some anecdotal stories. You guys have been at it at least a year. Anyone out there been on C60 that long? Do you feel the effort is worth it?

Thanks...

[blueinfinity]

ok this goes back and forth a lot, whats the general consensus on taking this? bad in aqueous solution so better to avoid completely, or...

if it is done in the right solution, it is ok? so buy from reputable vendor?

or ok just to make at home

The Aqueous solution is a different thing not what is used by the majority on here, its a Ukrainian invention,?

C60-00 three vendors all post at times on here all genuine

but very easy to make at home its very cheap probably the best bang per buck of any supplement going when you consider the results, and its theoretical effect,,

no problems in the short term,

and probably none in the long term either, but that's an unknown,,

Thats great, whats the machine called that they use to stir?

I want to get a few others opinions on this, but it does seem there arent really any negatives immediately, or problems maybe with accumulation in the body?

[YOLF]

ok this goes back and forth a lot, whats the general consensus on taking this? bad in aqueous solution so better to avoid completely, or...

if it is done in the right solution, it is ok? so buy from reputable vendor?

or ok just to make at home

The Aqueous solution is a different thing not what is used by the majority on here, its a Ukrainian invention,?

C60-00 three vendors all post at times on here all genuine

but very easy to make at home its very cheap probably the best bang per buck of any supplement going when you consider the results, and its theoretical effect,,

no problems in the short term,

and probably none in the long term either, but that's an unknown,,

Thats great, whats the machine called that they use to stir?

I want to get a few others opinions on this, but it does seem there arent really any negatives immediately, or problems maybe with accumulation in the body?

Magnetic stirrer? Some use a sonicator.

[solarfingers]

Magnetic Stirrers seem to be the cheapest way to go...

[blueinfinity]

hm... ok $150 would be a good investment to make your own in the long-term guess id have to do more research to see if this is really something that is proven beneficial or just glowing skin and maybe endurance benefits, the supposed benefits are great in lab mice but in humans... makes me curious, along with the by-products of impurities is of concern, wondering if it is ok to be ingesting this stuff at all

[solarfingers]

You can pick one up on e-Bay much cheaper. There have been plenty of people here who have been on c60 oil for months now with no negative effects. My educated guess from all the reading is that it is safe.

I'm going for a cycle of Astralagus/Resveratrol and am looking to add c60 oil to my regiment...

Edited by solarfingers, 16 May 2013 - 06:07 PM.

[niner]

Thats great, whats the machine called that they use to stir?

I want to get a few others opinions on this, but it does seem there arent really any negatives immediately, or problems maybe with accumulation in the body?

Magnetic stirrer? Some use a sonicator.

I don't know of anyone here who is using a sonicator to make c60-oo. In fact, I'd strongly recommend NOT using a sonicator, since it could possibly accelerate undesirable side reactions.

The machine that I used to make c60-oo is called "my arms". I shook the bottle a couple times a day for a week or so. A lot of people here used magnetic stirrers early on. I suggested grinding/crushing the c60 crystals some months back, and this method has become fairly popular. It accelerates the reaction to the point that you can get away without a stirrer. A lot of people had problems with stirrers burning out. Olive oil is pretty viscous, and it puts a lot of strain on a cheap stirrer. A decent mortar and pestle costs a lot less than a good stirrer.

[YOLF]

Maybe I misunderstood, but wasn't one of the former US makers using one to speed up the production process? Did anyone have a problem with the sonicated C60? Just wondering, I have a bottle of it I haven't used yet.

[solarfingers]

Looking to purchase my c60... Does anyone know the difference between reagent, purified and vacume oven dried c60? Regeant seems to be the cheapest and the Vacume oven dried is what one of the vendors is using. Which are the DIY home users buying? I have found a couple of vendors. I would post them but I don't have enough posts to post external links yet.

Thanks...

[stephen_b]

Good to know. Have you heard of anyone taking astralagus in tandum with c60 oil? I'ld like to hear some anecdotal stories. You guys have been at it at least a year. Anyone out there been on C60 that long? Do you feel the effort is worth it?

Thanks...

I have. I haven't noticed anything, other than a heaping teaspoon of astragalus root powder taken with a stimulant (ADD med) makes for insomnia, for me at least. But then again I had to switch to decaf, so I might be more sensitive to stimulant effects than most people.

To see if there is any interaction with the two would require some very specialized testing (telomere length and some oxidation status tests that have been mentioned in C60health). Other than astragalus root powder being a tonic, I have not noticed anything else from C60 and astragalus.

I ran my spring marathon a couple of weeks back. I broke my PR by 13.5 minutes, finishing in 3:45 and a half. I was actually on track to finish in 3:35:30 up until mile 20, but running into a stiff headwind for the last miles and hitting the wall did me in.

So, great result, BUT also consistent with the training I have been doing in preparation (averaging 3000 calories/34 miles a week peaking at 46 miles) for the 15 weeks prior to the race.

[solarfingers]

Interesting Stephen_b, at least I'm not alone in my thinking. It would likely take a number of years before you could determine if there were any real benefits to fighting aging. Do you feel your generally in good health since taking the two? Do you cycle astragalas with an tolemerase inhibitor? I'm wondering if the tolemerase inhibitor is a mute point being on c60 since c60 seems to stead off cancer... What's your thinking on this?

Thanks...

Edited by solarfingers, 16 May 2013 - 09:08 PM.

[hav]

Agree with most of the advice above. I tried various centrifuge and filtering combos and found that I got no detectible sediment after 22 micron filtering so I discontinued centrifuging my c60/oo. That was with a 4,000 rpm centrifuge for 2 hours. I think the reason they used it in Baati was because they were doing a toxicity study of both dissolved c60/oo delivered by oral gavage and undissolved c60 delivered by ip injection into the bloodstream and probably wanted to be absolutely certain they were separating the tests and effects... I believe that with ip injection they found substantial amounts of the c60 in the liver but those animals were all sacrificed so there is no longevity data on them. I don't remember any c60 liver accumulation mentioned for the group that received c60/oo by oral gavage. I think there was mention in the study of followup tissue study they were planning on for the longevity group but I haven't seen anything on that yet other than informal comment someone here got by email that no tumors were found. When Dr Moussa was asked in Anthony's video interview about why they filtered and centrifuged the c60/oo in the study, his response was that in a study they have to be sure of the dosage. He also said he didn't think it was necessary and that omitting it would not be harmful in any way. My only quibble is that I consider that a mere guess, albeit an educated one, because it hasn't been proved yet in any study. So I continue to filter my own c60/oo. Anthony and Sarah also mentioned in this thread that micron-level filtering removes bacteria.

I think Anthony was the only potential c60/oo supplier that talked about sonicating. But when asked directly if his product would in fact be sonicated he pleaded trade secret. Guess its moot if he's not a potential supplier anymore. Personally, I wouldn't take a sonicated c60 unless it was shown in a study to be both non-toxic and at least equally as effective as the c60/oo used in the Baati study. Studies have already been posted earlier in this thread showing that c60 forms varying aggregates in olive oil at different temperature break points and I assume the same applies to varying sonicating energies... and the properties of those aggregates are unknown.

Regarding astragalus and c60... I like to cycle both my antioxidants and my telomerase activators. I take both astragalus extract and c60, but on alternate weeks. Take Myrobalan too, but the studies I saw on it mentioned it being an antioxidant telomere protector, not a telomerase activator. So its also in my antioxidant stack. Same for other Product B ingredients as well as purslane which was also in astral fruit.

Howard

[solarfingers]

Very informative Howard, thank you... I'll have to look into Myrobalan... My thinking has been leaning toward the Astragalus and Purslane. So you are not cycling with a tolemerase inhibitor (Like Jim Green suggests) is that correct? If not, is your choice based upon some research?

Thanks...

[solarfingers]

Regarding toxicity which is contradicted by the rat study, I thought this article on Publmed.com was quite conclusive in their findings. It also reiterates the importance of keeping the c60 out of UV light and stored in a dark place.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18217343

"Due to their unique properties, fullerenes, a model of carbon-based nanoparticles, have attracted considerable interest in many fields of research including material science and biomedical applications. The potential and the growing use of fullerenes and their mass production have raised several questions about their safety and environmental impact. Available data clearly shows that pristine C60 has no acute or sub-acute toxicity in a large variety of living organisms, from bacteria and fungal to human leukocytes, and also in drosophila, mice, rats and guinea pigs. In contrast to chemically--either covalently or noncovalently--modified fullerenes, some C60 derivatives can be highly toxic. Furthermore, under light exposure, C60 is an efficient singlet oxygen sensitizer. Therefore, if pristine C60 is absolutely nontoxic under dark conditions, this is not the case under UV-Visible irradiation and in the presence of O2 where ffullerene solutions can be highly toxic through 1O2 formation..."

[hav]

Very informative Howard, thank you... I'll have to look into Myrobalan... My thinking has been leaning toward the Astragalus and Purslane. So you are not cycling with a tolemerase inhibitor (Like Jim Green suggests) is that correct? If not, is your choice based upon some research?

Thanks...

I guess I don't know. When I first started taking anti-oxidants, they were thought to be telomerase inhibitors and that was one of the bases for cycling telomerase inhibitors and antioxidants on alternate weeks. Now, the weight of opinion seems to have changed but studies are somewhat contradictory, yielding different results for normal and cancer cells and pretty much all in vitro at extremely high concentrations. Studies do support the idea that antioxidants are telomere, dna, and mitochondria protectors but my perception is that most folks here don't seem to think they are necessarily either telomerase activators or inhibitors. But there is a continued concern that constant telomerase activation could lead to developing a resistance effect to activators generally which was one of my reasons to continue separate cycling. More recently, some folks here speculate that constant intake of antioxidants might have a negative effect which I think sounds reasonable too. Maybe some antioxidants are in fact inhibitors and, if so, my answer would be, "yes." But I don't take anything based solely on its telomerase inhibiting effect. Laying off on activators weekly is my personal cover-my-bets strategy. I haven't seen any clear and convincing in vivo research either way on these fine points.

Howard

[hav]

Regarding toxicity which is contradicted by the rat study, I thought this article on Publmed.com was quite conclusive in their findings. It also reiterates the importance of keeping the c60 out of UV light and stored in a dark place.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18217343

"Due to their unique properties, fullerenes, a model of carbon-based nanoparticles, have attracted considerable interest in many fields of research including material science and biomedical applications. The potential and the growing use of fullerenes and their mass production have raised several questions about their safety and environmental impact. Available data clearly shows that pristine C60 has no acute or sub-acute toxicity in a large variety of living organisms, from bacteria and fungal to human leukocytes, and also in drosophila, mice, rats and guinea pigs. In contrast to chemically--either covalently or noncovalently--modified fullerenes, some C60 derivatives can be highly toxic. Furthermore, under light exposure, C60 is an efficient singlet oxygen sensitizer. Therefore, if pristine C60 is absolutely nontoxic under dark conditions, this is not the case under UV-Visible irradiation and in the presence of O2 where ffullerene solutions can be highly toxic through 1O2 formation..."

I see Dr. Moussa and Szwarc co-authored the above survey of pristine c60 toxicity studies back in 2007. It explains why they were so careful in the subsequent Baati study which they also co-authored to to store their c60/oo in the dark. I would presume the Baati results would have been different if there was a c60/oo risk due to O2 exposure in the lungs. It does seem to leave open the question of possible toxicity of c60/oo through skin exposure to uv which the Baati study didn't specifically test. Perhaps more light could be shed on that (pardon the pun) by a hairless rat study with enhanced uv exposure.

Howard

Edited by hav, 17 May 2013 - 12:09 AM.

[blueinfinity]

Regarding toxicity which is contradicted by the rat study, I thought this article on Publmed.com was quite conclusive in their findings. It also reiterates the importance of keeping the c60 out of UV light and stored in a dark place.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18217343

"Due to their unique properties, fullerenes, a model of carbon-based nanoparticles, have attracted considerable interest in many fields of research including material science and biomedical applications. The potential and the growing use of fullerenes and their mass production have raised several questions about their safety and environmental impact. Available data clearly shows that pristine C60 has no acute or sub-acute toxicity in a large variety of living organisms, from bacteria and fungal to human leukocytes, and also in drosophila, mice, rats and guinea pigs. In contrast to chemically--either covalently or noncovalently--modified fullerenes, some C60 derivatives can be highly toxic. Furthermore, under light exposure, C60 is an efficient singlet oxygen sensitizer. Therefore, if pristine C60 is absolutely nontoxic under dark conditions, this is not the case under UV-Visible irradiation and in the presence of O2 where ffullerene solutions can be highly toxic through 1O2 formation..."

This is highly discomforting to me as its nearly impossible on earth to realistically and completely avoid these two - o2 and uv unless you go into a photo film developing dark room or like that is vacuumed of all atmosphere.

Also that first bit of "some C60 derivatives can be highly toxic" is not very specific but highly next to toxic doesnt sound good for me...

[niner]

Toxicity is relative and the word "highly" is probably not appropriate here. You might note the term "some c60 derivatives". C60-oo doesn't seem to be one of them, based on the animal experiments and thousands of human users. This is not an FDA-approved drug though, and might exceed your risk tolerance.