3585 replies to this topic

[mait]

I wonder if I can use those filters to filter my "home brew" C60 if I build them into my two vessel system.

http://www.ebay.com/...=item43bb065ef6
or
http://www.ebay.com/...=item460e91ecb2
or
http://www.ebay.com/...=item2a2bc41de7
or this full system:
http://www.ebay.com/...=item3380b8f5e3

[solarfingers]

I wonder if I can use those filters to filter my "home brew" C60 if I build them into my two vessel system.

http://www.ebay.com/...=item43bb065ef6
or
http://www.ebay.com/...=item460e91ecb2
or
http://www.ebay.com/...=item2a2bc41de7
or this full system:
http://www.ebay.com/...=item3380b8f5e3

I originally considered syringes... I have seen very large ones which could make the job less tedious. You could put one in a calking gun which could provide the pressure needed to force the c60-oo oil through the filter membrane. On the other hand (pun intended) doing it by hand would be difficult.

The Corning unit looks almost identical to the Nalgene system I posted early which leads me to believe we are talking about different name brands. As discussed earlier, a vacuum pump would take the time out of pulling the c60-oo through the filter membrane. A hand vacuum pump can be obtained for around $25 US dollars. I was looking at a video yesterday and it dawned on me that a refrigerator vacuum pump would also be sufficient if you have an old refrigerator laying around... You could probably pirate one from the local dump.


Corning ___________________________ Nalgene ________________________ Hand Operated Vacume Pump

Edited by solarfingers, 27 May 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[YOLF]

I'm not sure how much faith I put in Hydrated Fullerines, I thought there was another study in rats that was able to reverse alzheimers. Should we have seen an alzheimer's rat in the Baati study? Was it big enough?

[solarfingers]

I'm not sure how much faith I put in Hydrated Fullerines, I thought there was another study in rats that was able to reverse alzheimers. Should we have seen an alzheimer's rat in the Baati study? Was it big enough?

It would be wonderful if c60 was the answer to all disease. From what I can tell there are a number of studies on Alzheimers/c60 that have been done or are in progress... We can only hope.

[YOLF]

lipofullerine C60? Or some other version? Found an article about J147 that looks like it could be promising. Maybe we can do a case study trial of that one too. I'm going to write them later and see what they think about it. I have a granny in one of those homes with late stage(? she has trouble walking and hardly recognizes anything).

[solarfingers]

Here's an inexpensive vacuum system that looks to be quite inexpensive...

http://rtfms.com/rtf...-filtration.htm

[solarfingers]

lipofullerine C60? Or some other version? Found an article about J147 that looks like it could be promising. Maybe we can do a case study trial of that one too. I'm going to write them later and see what they think about it. I have a granny in one of those homes with late stage(? she has trouble walking and hardly recognizes anything).

That's horrible... I'm so sorry to hear that. I watched with a Dr. Newport who's husband had Alzheimer's and was becoming dysfunctional. Instead of trying to explain her findings I'll share this with you. Perhaps it will help. I take about 2tbs of olive oil a day as a precautionary measure after watching this series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iScs0uzQZFk

Edited by solarfingers, 27 May 2013 - 03:58 PM.

[pleb]

Do you mean 2 table spoons of olive oil a day, ?

[solarfingers]

Here's an inexpensive vacuum system that looks to be quite inexpensive...

http://rtfms.com/rtf...-filtration.htm

This has my wheels turning to making an inexpensive and functional filtration system. You could take a Luer lock syringe and Nalgene syringe filter and make a filtration system using two Kerr jars. You would need a large, say 60ml syringe, and place a rubber stopper with a single hole/glass tube. Run a plastic hose from the top of the syringe to the bottom of a Kerr jar with the c60-oo mixture. I would likely be mixing in the Kerr jar to begin with.

In the receiving Kerr jar cut a hole in the lid big enough to allow a second two hole rubber stopper, each hole with glass tubes. Run the vacuum line to one glass tube and a plastic hose between the second glass tube and the Nalgene syringe filter. Screw the filter onto the syringe. When you operate the vacuum the c60 will be drawn into the syringe, through the filter and into the receiving jar... Simple, elegant and functional. When you're done put a new lid on the jar for storage.

Sounds like another project is coming...

Do you mean 2 table spoons of olive oil a day, ?

Yes, I modified the post.

Thanks...

Edited by solarfingers, 27 May 2013 - 03:58 PM.

[zen]

Do you mean 2 table spoons of olive oil a day, ?

Yes, I modified the post.

Thanks...

Just FYI. If you listen to Part II of Dr. Newport's interview around 2 min 30 seconds from the beginning she mentions that Olive Oil DOES NOT contain medium chain triglycerides.

Edited by zen, 27 May 2013 - 05:32 PM.

[solarfingers]

http://www.hulu.com/watch/440738

Perhaps a game of "Kick the Can" is what we all need...

[solarfingers]

Do you mean 2 table spoons of olive oil a day, ?

Yes, I modified the post.

Thanks...

Just FYI. If you listen to Part II of Dr. Newport's interview around 2 min 30 seconds from the beginning she mentions that Olive Oil DOES NOT contain medium chain triglycerides.

True, I know it's not related to our c60 experiments. This is a compassionate response to Cryonicsculture's post about his grandmother with Alzheimer's...

[solarfingers]

Here's an indestructible for making an inexpensive hand vacuum pump from an old tire pump...

http://www.instructa...$20-by-convert/

Edited by solarfingers, 27 May 2013 - 09:23 PM.

[YOLF]

Wow! the guy just spoke! My granny's way worse than that. She moves her lips to try to speak but her body language looks as if she never gets past 10% of a thought before losing it. You can see the disappointment she experiences every time she tries to think something. She's been in the home for 3-5 years.

[YOLF]

http://www.hulu.com/watch/440738

Perhaps a game of "Kick the Can" is what we all need...

If only...

But the prospect of losing my mind without having had it backed up is pretty scary...

[Logic]

Alzheimer's:
Its the MCTs (Medium Chain Triglycerides) in COCONUT OIL that acts as an alternate source of energy for brain cells that in certain types of Alzheimer's have 'diabetes type 3'

Dr. Newport's husband was way worse than that before the Coconut Oil.

There is info here on the effect of SS-31 that may sched some light on the effects of C60oo on Alzheimer's.
http://www.longecity...-c60oo-effects/

[clairvoyant]

Here is my comment on the adverse effects of C60 and the guys who overdosed it and have eyes hemorrhages and blood in urine.


First, I must say that a drop of Sara’s nectar on the tongue is NOT oral dose. Olive oil is absorbed by the mouth’s skin so the dose becomes far stronger. It is like an injection closer to the brain. The active compound C60 is spreading by diffusion through the body fats close to the brain.
It is like some topical rubbed into the skin with an active substance. The absorption through the stomach is lower, that is why the nectar should be taken soaked in bread or a biscuit.
Second, the younger and the healthier should take smaller doses. It seems that the younger (smaller) is one’s biological age more susceptible to the nectar is his organism. Ukrainian sites recommend doses in the range of nano grams for water fullerens ( C60(OH)24 ). The C60-oo is more potent so, for myself, I stabilized my dose at one pico gram a day, several times a week. At that low dose, I still have beneficial effects and can drink coffee, too. If increasing, I could not sleep and feel hyperactive.
Another mitochondrial antioxidant SkQ (water soluble) is recommended in nano grams for rats, for humans the dose might be lower.
I think that being electrophil C60 is an electron acceptor in ETC and stimulates energy production. Therefore, it should be taken at breakfast.
My recommendation for the dosing is:

• dissolve the nectar in olive oil quite. Put one drop (0.04ml) in 40 ml OO. This is a division by 1000. Doing it twice is a million.
• take only one drop on bread in the morning
• if you have not adverse effects then DOUBLE it on the next day until it is not tolerable. When the dose caches you, pause a couple of days and use smaller dose as prophylaxes.

Within 10 days the dose will be 1024 times initial dose. It will spare you from overdosing and help you find your dose.

An idea whether the nectar can interfere with genes

We know that cell can multiply/divide sexually or asexually. If DNA is damaged or slightly damaged the cell or even the whole organism may still function normally, like people sustained radiation. However if these cells or organisms multiply the DNA alterations become obvious in the offspring such as malformations or cancer.
Because we do not have C60 animal with progeny yet, let us look at C60 human and C60 rat skin cells. The skin cells are fast dividing cells, though asexually, thus, if their DNA is damaged or changed by C60 then it will be visible within one or second division as lesions or cancer. None of this has occurred.
I have read that fullerenol, but not C60 in OO gets into the nuclear membrane and protects guanine’s DNA from ROS.

[niner]

Clairvoyant, I think you are the only person who is using homeopathic doses of c60-oo. Virtually everyone else is using doses on the order of milligrams. Some of us at the lower end of the dosing range are using doses like 2mg/week, or in my case 15mg/month. I've recently decided to raise that to 30mg/month. At the high end of the range, we've had people taking 140mg in a single dose once a week, and I think the largest total dose was 50mg/day. C60 is very potent, but one picogram a day really doesn't sound like enough to do anything. Do you have any objective measurements showing effects at that dose? On a mg/kg basis, Baati's rats got a dose that was one hundred billion times larger than yours. I'd be the first to say that the rats could have gotten by with a bit less, but not a hundred billion times less.

[solarfingers]

Within 10 days the dose will be 1024 times initial dose. It will spare you from overdosing and help you find your dose.

I haven't read of anyone actually overdosing yet. Since we don't know what an initial dose is, who's to say? So far nobody who has taken higher dosages has noted any negative effects. If anything they are reporting there is little apparent effect than the lower dosages. I'm more interested in the effects we don't see. The hope is that we are doing something very beneficial at a cellular level... This is what the Baati rat study suggests since antioxidants alone can't explain their extended life spans by any measure. I will start with a couple of .8mg/1ml dosages upfront just to ensure there is no allergic reaction but that is the only caution I'm throwing into this effort. I have to say that I'm with Niner on this one. He's a vetted veteran here so it would be prudent to listen to him.

Edited by solarfingers, 28 May 2013 - 01:30 AM.

[niner]

The hope is that we are doing something very beneficial at a cellular level... This is what the Baati rat study suggests since antioxidants alone can't explain their extended life spans by any measure.

Thanks for the kind words, solarfingers. I think that we are doing something very beneficial at the cellular level, but that the mechanism is primarily (if not totally) antioxidant in nature. The antioxidants that most of us are familiar with are flawed in a number of ways. They variously have terrible pharmacokinetics, pro-oxidant activity, a requirement for chemical regeneration after each reaction, or poor localization- that is, they don't get into cells, or if they do, they don't get into the mitochondrial membranes where the vast majority of reactive oxygen species (ROS) are produced. C60-oo is lipophilic, gets into membranes, and based on studies with other fullerene compounds, gets into mitochondria. Its behavior has all the hallmarks of a powerful mitochondrial antioxidant. C60 acts as a catalytic antioxidant, so it doesn't get used up; rather it continues to work for a long time. Other c60 compounds have been shown to have SOD-mimetic ability.

Mitochondrial ROS are definitely bad actors. They damage most any biomolecule they come in contact with, but their damage to mitochondrial DNA is particularly problematic in that it leads ultimately to the creation of senescent cells that do a great deal of damage, constantly pumping out pro-inflammatory molecules and refusing to die. There are a number of mechanisms and processes involved in aging, but I would have to put mitochondrial ROS damage at the top of the list.

Rats and mice are oxidatively challenged. They don't have antioxidant defenses that are as good as ours, and would be expected to benefit more from a really good antioxidant than humans would. That means that we should not expect to live to 150 from c60-oo alone, but this is the first compound that properly employed might actually move the needle in a significant way for human longevity. Rather than a 90% increase in lifespan, I'd be thinking more along the lines of 10%. That's not a prediction or promise, more like an educated guess. If it's off by a lot, I hope I've undershot rather than overshot, but it could go the other way. To put it another way, there are large error bars.

[solarfingers]

The hope is that we are doing something very beneficial at a cellular level... This is what the Baati rat study suggests since antioxidants alone can't explain their extended life spans by any measure.

Thanks for the kind words, solarfingers. I think that we are doing something very beneficial at the cellular level, but that the mechanism is primarily (if not totally) antioxidant in nature. The antioxidants that most of us are familiar with are flawed in a number of ways. They variously have terrible pharmacokinetics, pro-oxidant activity, a requirement for chemical regeneration after each reaction, or poor localization- that is, they don't get into cells, or if they do, they don't get into the mitochondrial membranes where the vast majority of reactive oxygen species (ROS) are produced. C60-oo is lipophilic, gets into membranes, and based on studies with other fullerene compounds, gets into mitochondria. Its behavior has all the hallmarks of a powerful mitochondrial antioxidant. C60 acts as a catalytic antioxidant, so it doesn't get used up; rather it continues to work for a long time. Other c60 compounds have been shown to have SOD-mimetic ability.

Mitochondrial ROS are definitely bad actors. They damage most any biomolecule they come in contact with, but their damage to mitochondrial DNA is particularly problematic in that it leads ultimately to the creation of senescent cells that do a great deal of damage, constantly pumping out pro-inflammatory molecules and refusing to die. There are a number of mechanisms and processes involved in aging, but I would have to put mitochondrial ROS damage at the top of the list.

Rats and mice are oxidatively challenged. They don't have antioxidant defenses that are as good as ours, and would be expected to benefit more from a really good antioxidant than humans would. That means that we should not expect to live to 150 from c60-oo alone, but this is the first compound that properly employed might actually move the needle in a significant way for human longevity. Rather than a 90% increase in lifespan, I'd be thinking more along the lines of 10%. That's not a prediction or promise, more like an educated guess. If it's off by a lot, I hope I've undershot rather than overshot, but it could go the other way. To put it another way, there are large error bars.

That's an excellent explanation! I must be coming along because I actually understood all of it. I would be happy if I just don't die a miserable death. At 86 my grandfather was not a happy camper... Brain was there but his body wasn't. I'm shooting for a better outcome.

[YOLF]

Clairvoyant, I think you are the only person who is using homeopathic doses of c60-oo. Virtually everyone else is using doses on the order of milligrams. Some of us at the lower end of the dosing range are using doses like 2mg/week, or in my case 15mg/month. I've recently decided to raise that to 30mg/month. At the high end of the range, we've had people taking 140mg in a single dose once a week, and I think the largest total dose was 50mg/day. C60 is very potent, but one picogram a day really doesn't sound like enough to do anything. Do you have any objective measurements showing effects at that dose? On a mg/kg basis, Baati's rats got a dose that was one hundred billion times larger than yours. I'd be the first to say that the rats could have gotten by with a bit less, but not a hundred billion times less.

If smaller doses did more, we wouldn't have people dieing of cancer from smoking either. The C60 would more than be able to sop up all the damage.

[clairvoyant]

I am honest that I can not bear more than 1 picogram. In the gym, I just made a personal record in squats. It would be wise to warn people to start with a smaller dose. There will not be a problem in being increased later on.

I still wonder what is wrong or different with me. Could I have more or less mitochondria? Or different mitochondrial membrane potential. I don't know. On the outside, I look normal, younger for my age, 45 year old with lean muscle mass. Not mad, for example I can drive well, English is not my mother language. I am Caucasian, 5'7'' tall, 72kg, good black hair, don't drink, don't smoke, don't wear glasses for reading yet (little crystalline lens hardening).
_________________________________________________________

I'm really grateful to you Niner for the information about C60 and to ALL brave enough pioneers, making history here, who were taking C60 being unknown chemical to human metabolism.

Thank you for the testimonials, too.
Live longer and prosper.

Edited by clairvoyant, 28 May 2013 - 10:34 PM.

[Marty D]

NAC is used to treat addictions and OCD
" N-acetylcysteine and glycine are found to be substances with a glutamatergic mechanism of action which are worthy of further clinical investigation in OCD treatment"
http://www.sciencedi...278584611000650
" N-acetylcysteine (NAC) is a readily available amino acid compound that is thought to attenuate glutamatergic neurotransmission. NAC may be useful in treating psychiatric disorders involving glutamatergic dysfunction such as OCD."
http://link.springer...0213-005-0246-6

I take 500 mg of NAC daily for glutathione replenishment given that I'm a wine drinker. I've never felt or experienced any reaction from it.

This is off topic so apologies but I just wanted to reply to Kevnzworld.
Thanks for the tip.

So from here:
http://www.drweil.co...ne-for-OCD.html

The biochemical rationale for using NAC for treatment of OCD stems from findings that abnormal levels of glutamate, the brain's most abundant excitatory neurotransmitter, may contribute to the disorder. (Animal studies at the Medical University of South Carolina have found that NAC can lower levels of brain glutamate).

NAC is inhibiting, or attenuating, Glutamate.

And from here:
http://www.livestron...ate-deficiency/

Glutamate deficiency is unusual. When it occurs, it causes symptoms that are also present when you suffer from other health conditions. Consult a doctor for a correct diagnosis and treatment plan and refrain from taking glutamic acid supplements based on a self-diagnosis. Symptoms associated with a low level of this amino acid include insomnia, problems concentrating, mental exhaustion and depleted energy.

Glutamate deficiency appears to cause many of the problems I've was experiencing prior to dietary supplementation.

So it may be possible to assume NAC is blocking the uptake of glutamic acid from whey protien and possibly other sources. That would explain a return to fail state when NAC is present.

At least one possible explanation. Good info and thank you for the insight.

[Marty D]

Olive oil is absorbed by the mouth’s skin so the dose becomes far stronger.

That's actually an interesting thought. Is sub-lingual dosing c60oo viable? It's been mentioned here the size of the c60 molecule is very small and whenever sublingual is discussed a smaller molecule seems to be the primary requirement. Other supplements are really enhanced by sublingual application. Effects are in minutes or even seconds instead of lke an hour or so. But what about olive oil? The, uhm, adduct, if that's right, will still have a small enough footprint to to absorb?

[YOLF]

IIRC, I think I read something about the molecule needing to be less than 450 daltons to be available sublingually. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night though.

[Marty D]

Me too. <grin>
However refering to your unprofessional reference a search for daltons turns up this link C60 and other things to cure gray hair.

I don't know. C60-oo is pretty large, heavy, and is charged. There's been erroneous information posted about its molecular weight, which is 720 Daltons just for the c60, plus about that much again for two C18 fatty acid adducts. I think it would be a stretch to get it into the brain. I'd want to see some experimental evidence that it crossed the BBB, with or without dmso. I don't think dmso is particularly magic other than as a transdermal carrier. The only way it could help drugs pass the BBB would be to have a very toxic amount in the bloodstream.

So if your caffeine saturated memory is correct than probably not compatible with sublingual. Too bad, would be good way to go.

[niner]

I don't know. C60-oo is pretty large, heavy, and is charged. There's been erroneous information posted about its molecular weight, which is 720 Daltons just for the c60, plus about that much again for two C18 fatty acid adducts. I think it would be a stretch to get it into the brain. I'd want to see some experimental evidence that it crossed the BBB, with or without dmso. I don't think dmso is particularly magic other than as a transdermal carrier. The only way it could help drugs pass the BBB would be to have a very toxic amount in the bloodstream.

So if your caffeine saturated memory is correct than probably not compatible with sublingual. Too bad, would be good way to go.

It later came up in that thread that the c60 fatty acid adduct probably hitched a ride on a fatty acid transporter and got into the brain. On the other hand, when it first hits your mouth, it's not a simple fatty acid adduct; it's the entire olive oil triglyceride, bound to a c60 molecule, which in turn may be bound to yet another triglyceride. It's not until this thing encounters a lipase that it will be broken up into a simpler fatty acid adduct. This mainly happens in the gut, although there are salivary lipases that could start the process. I'm not sure how fast it would be, though. I'm pretty sure that there are no fatty acid transporters in the oral mucosa, so you're left with passive diffusion. I wouldn't expect even the simple adduct to get in buccally, and I'd really be surprised if the triglyceride version did. I don't really see a need for sublingual dosing when the oral bioavailability is so good.

I don't get the Holiday Inn Express reference...

[Marty D]

Holiday Inn had a commercial a while back which had people waking up so refreshed they could do the job of a professional; even if it was another profession (or somethig like that). So here we are finding clarity in spite of our backgrounds.

Oral dosing would be financially advantageous for one, but the idea was proposed by clairvoyant and it sounded interesting. Just thinking out loud / didn't spend the night at the Holiday Inn.

Great info there for sure though.

[YOLF]

I don't know. C60-oo is pretty large, heavy, and is charged. There's been erroneous information posted about its molecular weight, which is 720 Daltons just for the c60, plus about that much again for two C18 fatty acid adducts. I think it would be a stretch to get it into the brain. I'd want to see some experimental evidence that it crossed the BBB, with or without dmso. I don't think dmso is particularly magic other than as a transdermal carrier. The only way it could help drugs pass the BBB would be to have a very toxic amount in the bloodstream.

So if your caffeine saturated memory is correct than probably not compatible with sublingual. Too bad, would be good way to go.

It later came up in that thread that the c60 fatty acid adduct probably hitched a ride on a fatty acid transporter and got into the brain. On the other hand, when it first hits your mouth, it's not a simple fatty acid adduct; it's the entire olive oil triglyceride, bound to a c60 molecule, which in turn may be bound to yet another triglyceride. It's not until this thing encounters a lipase that it will be broken up into a simpler fatty acid adduct. This mainly happens in the gut, although there are salivary lipases that could start the process. I'm not sure how fast it would be, though. I'm pretty sure that there are no fatty acid transporters in the oral mucosa, so you're left with passive diffusion. I wouldn't expect even the simple adduct to get in buccally, and I'd really be surprised if the triglyceride version did. I don't really see a need for sublingual dosing when the oral bioavailability is so good.

I don't get the Holiday Inn Express reference...

(Classic)