3585 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

IIRC, I think I read something about the molecule needing to be less than 450 daltons to be available sublingually. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night though.

The cutoff might be a lot higher--

A study done by H.E. Junginger et al. detailing the in-vitro permeability of FITC-Dextran through porcine oral mucosa found that there was no detectable permeation if the molecular weight of the florescently labelled compound was greater than 10,000 Daltons.

It later came up in that thread that the c60 fatty acid adduct probably hitched a ride on a fatty acid transporter and got into the brain. On the other hand, when it first hits your mouth, it's not a simple fatty acid adduct; it's the entire olive oil triglyceride, bound to a c60 molecule, which in turn may be bound to yet another triglyceride. It's not until this thing encounters a lipase that it will be broken up into a simpler fatty acid adduct. This mainly happens in the gut, although there are salivary lipases that could start the process. I'm not sure how fast it would be, though. I'm pretty sure that there are no fatty acid transporters in the oral mucosa, so you're left with passive diffusion. I wouldn't expect even the simple adduct to get in buccally, and I'd really be surprised if the triglyceride version did. I don't really see a need for sublingual dosing when the oral bioavailability is so good.

This is a good point. Sublingual dosing might be an entirely different animal.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 31 May 2013 - 06:45 PM.

[Marty D]

Here is my comment on the adverse effects of C60 and the guys who overdosed it and have eyes hemorrhages and blood in urine.


First, I must say that a drop of Sara’s nectar on the tongue is NOT oral dose. Olive oil is absorbed by the mouth’s skin so the dose becomes far stronger. It is like an injection closer to the brain. The active compound C60 is spreading by diffusion through the body fats close to the brain.
It is like some topical rubbed into the skin with an active substance. The absorption through the stomach is lower, that is why the nectar should be taken soaked in bread or a biscuit.
Second, the younger and the healthier should take smaller doses. It seems that the younger (smaller) is one’s biological age more susceptible to the nectar is his organism. Ukrainian sites recommend doses in the range of nano grams for water fullerens ( C60(OH)24 ). The C60-oo is more potent so, for myself, I stabilized my dose at one pico gram a day, several times a week. At that low dose, I still have beneficial effects and can drink coffee, too. If increasing, I could not sleep and feel hyperactive.
Another mitochondrial antioxidant SkQ (water soluble) is recommended in nano grams for rats, for humans the dose might be lower.
I think that being electrophil C60 is an electron acceptor in ETC and stimulates energy production. Therefore, it should be taken at breakfast.
My recommendation for the dosing is:

• dissolve the nectar in olive oil quite. Put one drop (0.04ml) in 40 ml OO. This is a division by 1000. Doing it twice is a million.
  
• take only one drop on bread in the morning
  
• if you have not adverse effects then DOUBLE it on the next day until it is not tolerable. When the dose caches you, pause a couple of days and use smaller dose as prophylaxes.

Within 10 days the dose will be 1024 times initial dose. It will spare you from overdosing and help you find your dose.

An idea whether the nectar can interfere with genes

We know that cell can multiply/divide sexually or asexually. If DNA is damaged or slightly damaged the cell or even the whole organism may still function normally, like people sustained radiation. However if these cells or organisms multiply the DNA alterations become obvious in the offspring such as malformations or cancer.
Because we do not have C60 animal with progeny yet, let us look at C60 human and C60 rat skin cells. The skin cells are fast dividing cells, though asexually, thus, if their DNA is damaged or changed by C60 then it will be visible within one or second division as lesions or cancer. None of this has occurred.
I have read that fullerenol, but not C60 in OO gets into the nuclear membrane and protects guanine’s DNA from ROS.

clairvoyant, when you say drop on the tongue are letting the oil soak in your mouth for a while?

Ok, I wanted to find out more about the possibility of sub-lingual application and there doesn't seem to be much information on the net. Found one interesting quote but the document quoted is no longer available and that's kind of like a rumor of a rumor so not too much help. niner's post was by far and away the most informative I've seen.

Up next the experimental approach. I thought I'd see what would happen if the oil was soaked sublingually for a while. I still have a little bit of c60oo left from my original trial. The oil is from carbon60oliveoil.com. I used one dropper full or approximately 1.6ml or so. Dropped the oil under my tongue and let it stay there for ten minutes before swallowing and then another ten before swallowing again.

Results are I'm feeling very light headed. Unusually so for nearly an hour now. Almost slightly dizzy. The dizzyness comes and goes in waves over the course of several minutes. It's a little strange for me as I haven't drunk alcohol or anything like that for a couple of decades or more. After finishing this post, which is taking another twenty minutes, I'm kind of starting to feel a very slight headache.

Maybe someone else would like to try to see if they get anything, and I might try again tomorrow but I'm not too sure I want to repeat the experience.

Everything else in my day has been normal. Up at the usual time, usual routine, plenty of sleep, standard breakfast and usual activities with no stress.

Hmm. fwiw

[YOLF]

You could try it with a much smaller dose, or do one sublingual drop at a time now that you know how fast the onset of negative symptoms are.

Has anyone tried it in the ear?

Edited by cryonicsculture, 02 June 2013 - 05:24 PM.

[Marty D]

Maybe, you'd be hard pressed to get me to do that again. Negative effect lasted about four hours and feeling almost better now. I agree a smaller dose could be the ticket but do you think the sub-lingual biology is the same as digested? I don't remember Anthony ever mentioning dizziness or anything and he was taking huge amounts.

[YOLF]

I don't know, but we do know how you react to a regular dose sublingually. Lipid bioavailability should be high, so if we get a confirmation on small sublingual doses doing the same as regular gavage doses do when applied subling. then it could tell us that it is in fact handled differently when used subling. as we shouldn't see too much in the way of differences considering how much anthony was taking of the stuff. I wonder if the oral microbiome contains a species that splits it apart from the lipid given 10 min of holding it under the tongue. It's for science and it's better we get an idea of what's happening, for your sake and others. Of course, I'm no expert, lwt's see what niner says.

Edited by cryonicsculture, 02 June 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[zen]

... if we get a confirmation on small sublingual doses doing the same as regular gavage doses do when applied subling. then it could tell us that it is in fact handled differently when used subling. as we shouldn't see too much in the way of differences considering how much anthony was taking of the stuff....

I am curious how do you plan to figure out that "...small sublingual doses doing the same as regular gavage doses..." ?
What would you measure to objectively figure that out?

[YOLF]

Put a drop under the tongue and see if you get light headed. Increase the dose until the first signs of getting light headed, then compare the sublingual dose to the oral gavage and considering the high bioavailability of lipids, if the gap is more than minor, you are probably experiencing a different chemistry.

[niner]

I don't know what happened in Marty's case. I'd run the experiment myself, but I'm going to the gym pretty soon. Maybe later. We need a control experiment that's done with plain olive oil. Ideally it would be the same oil that was used to make the c60-oo. Any volunteers for trying it with plain olive oil? Both Sarah and Tom use a good quality evoo, so try to use a decent oil. Try the evoo before trying the c60-oo. If plain evoo makes you dizzy, we've probably found the culprit. There are a lot of bioactive compounds in olive oil, so it's at least possible that's what's doing it.

[Marty D]

I'm feeling much better this morning. The sense of giddy nervousness lasted through the day and into the night. Sleep was precariously balanced and felt like having lots of caffeine just before going to bed but I did sleep pretty well. The c60 kind of seemed to disperse throughout the day and instead of just either passing through or getting consumed it more or less kept circulating.

On the one hand, possibly bad. But on the other hand I may have a good level of c60 on board for the time being.

Intermittent dosing on a severely reduced level feels like the way to go at this point in time. <sigh>

@niner, that makes sense. To be sure, I do drink a couple of table spoons of extra virgin olive oil every day...

Edited by Marty D, 03 June 2013 - 01:44 PM.

[YOLF]

I don't know what happened in Marty's case. I'd run the experiment myself, but I'm going to the gym pretty soon. Maybe later. We need a control experiment that's done with plain olive oil. Ideally it would be the same oil that was used to make the c60-oo. Any volunteers for trying it with plain olive oil? Both Sarah and Tom use a good quality evoo, so try to use a decent oil. Try the evoo before trying the c60-oo. If plain evoo makes you dizzy, we've probably found the culprit. There are a lot of bioactive compounds in olive oil, so it's at least possible that's what's doing it.

I can give that a try with Bertoli EVOO if I have any left. I'll check.

I'm feeling much better this morning. The sense of giddy nervousness lasted through the day and into the night. Sleep was precariously balanced and felt like having lots of caffeine just before going to bed but I did sleep pretty well. The c60 kind of seemed to disperse throughout the day and instead of just either passing through or getting consumed it more or less kept circulating.

On the one hand, possibly bad. But on the other hand I may have a good level of c60 on board for the time being.

Intermittent dosing on a severely reduced level feels like the way to go at this point in time. <sigh>

@niner, that makes sense. To be sure, I do drink a couple of table spoons of extra virgin olive oil every day...

Have you taken your blood pressure? Do you have one of those home automatic BP cuffs that does it for you?

[tintinet]

From test results I've seen (Consumer Reports, UC Davis), I wouldn't consider Bertolli a "good quality" olive oil.

[Marty D]

Sorry no bp tests right now, on my way out the door. Feel fine though, made it through the morning workout which consists of a moderate weight lifting and moderate treadmill full body exercise. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Good luck, hopefully mine wasn't an isolated incident.

[YOLF]

Ideally, you'd take the BP test while having the symptoms to see if they are caused by C60's known increase in BP.

From test results I've seen (Consumer Reports, UC Davis), I wouldn't consider Bertolli a "good quality" olive oil.

What did it say about Bertolli's EVOO? Anything about their light OO?

[Turnbuckle]

Ideally, you'd take the BP test while having the symptoms to see if they are caused by C60's known increase in BP.

Where is that coming from?

[pleb]

i was just going to say the same, i can't remember reading on here any that have had BP tested reporting any difference other than normal variations,,

[Turnbuckle]

From the C60 poll:



Has you blood pressure and heart rate changed?

• Yes, higher. (2 votes [4.26%] - View)
  
  
• Yes, lower. (4 votes [8.51%] - View)
  
  
• No (21 votes [44.68%] - View)
  
  
• Do Not Know (20 votes [42.55%] - View)

[pleb]

the original post made it sound as if the majority on C60's BP went up which is far from the case,

[YOLF]

Ideally, you'd take the BP test while having the symptoms to see if they are caused by C60's known increase in BP.

Where is that coming from?

Haven't we seen a few reports of it? I thought it was suggested as a preexisting condition that was made worse for some taking C60. Though I guess it could just be placebo stress for some for taking something from a bottle labelled: "For Research Purposes Only." I have a BP machine, and was going to get some data on it pre and post C60. I'm sure lots of people have them, they're pretty cheap and good for monitoring stuff.

i was just going to say the same, i can't remember reading on here any that have had BP tested reporting any difference other than normal variations,,

There were side effects that coincided with high BP symptoms and these cases were resolved as being a result of having pre-existing high BP.

the original post made it sound as if the majority on C60's BP went up which is far from the case,

Sorry for the confusion.

[solarfingers]

My first attempt at mixing c60 into olive oil...

[Adamzski]

Im able to sleep much more these days, I can sleep 8hrs or more each day and that is out of the ordinary for me.

I am somewhat tired all the time and feel like going to bed during the day.. So I will start wellbutrin again and really try not to get drunk. I feel that wellbutrin is a danger to myself as I get so drunk so easy and do the craziest things.. my last experience going back on wellbutrin was that after taking it for a few a week I went out with some new friends drank about a bottle 375ml of soju 19%, a ~litre of beer and about 1/4 of a standard tequila bottle then got into a fight with a marine that resulted in a smashed up bar(that we had to pay for..) and me not being able to move my arm for a month after being jiu jitsued by the mofo.. problem is that after I am a little drunk then my judgment of drinking more and getting out of control goes out the window and yeah sometimes people literally go out the window..

I am going to do wellbutrin every second day as when I came to Korea that seemed to work for me and I did get drunk doing crazy things but not so bad.

I can't say my tiredness is all related to C60. Up until 2 weeks ago I spent around two months doing obsessive software development on my new product, sleeping a few hours if any per day and focusing my mind 100% on the complex problems in front of me, not going into my office just sleep/work computer/bed. I should be run down from this.. but now is not the time for resting as I should market my product.. I really think that I am ADHD sluggish cognitive tempo type, as when I have the mental stimulation of very complex problems then I have tons of energy and can put in 24-48hrs non-stop easy on a problem.

I will try to stay away from drink.. or stick to beer.

http://www.longecity...cation-blocker/ DHM, will try this as well.

I drank about 3 litres of beer last sunday, did seem to get drunk a little easier but it flatlined, i did not get more and more drunk. Well i will soon see how wellbutrin, C60 and alcohol mix..

Edited by Adamzski, 06 June 2013 - 04:18 AM.

[free10]

Im able to sleep much more these days, I can sleep 8hrs or more each day and that is out of the ordinary for me.

I am somewhat tired all the time and feel like going to bed during the day.. So I will start wellbutrin again and really try not to get drunk. I feel that wellbutrin is a danger to myself as I get so drunk so easy and do the craziest things.. my last experience going back on wellbutrin was that after taking it for a few a week I went out with some new friends drank about a bottle 375ml of soju 19%, a ~litre of beer and about 1/4 of a standard tequila bottle then got into a fight with a marine that resulted in a smashed up bar(that we had to pay for..) and me not being able to move my arm for a month after being jiu jitsued by the mofo.. problem is that after I am a little drunk then my judgment of drinking more and getting out of control goes out the window and yeah sometimes people literally go out the window..

I am going to do wellbutrin every second day as when I came to Korea that seemed to work for me and I did get drunk doing crazy things but not so bad.

I can't say my tiredness is all related to C60. Up until 2 weeks ago I spent around two months doing obsessive software development on my new product, sleeping a few hours if any per day and focusing my mind 100% on the complex problems in front of me, not going into my office just sleep/work computer/bed. I should be run down from this.. but now is not the time for resting as I should market my product.. I really think that I am ADHD sluggish cognitive tempo type, as when I have the mental stimulation of very complex problems then I have tons of energy and can put in 24-48hrs non-stop easy on a problem.

I will try to stay away from drink.. or stick to beer.

http://www.longecity...cation-blocker/ DHM, will try this as well.

I drank about 3 litres of beer last sunday, did seem to get drunk a little easier but it flatlined, i did not get more and more drunk. Well i will soon see how wellbutrin, C60 and alcohol mix..

Stop the alcohol. Not one drink of any kind. It is messing your life up and it will get worse and you will harm others if you don't. There is no way around this.

[YOLF]

Did something happen? I'm seeing some missing posts...

[Adamzski]

Yeah my life is fairly good despite alcohol. Im in the second most alcoholic country in the world and somewhat an alcoholic so not touching a drop is not going to happen.
Wellbutrin does stop me grabbing a beer or two from the 7/11 each day, it is just that the amount of alcohol that I can binge drink is decreased.. so I have to stop myself going past the point of no return.

Im not so much of a danger to others, was my first fight in over 5 years and was mostly his fault, he jujitsued me first.. but I have done crazy things drunk and almost been in fights a few times.

I can say C60 changed how I get drunk. Sunday I had quite a bit of alcohol over a 4hr period, it was probably closer to 4 liters of beer as I was finishing my girls drinks off when she was full. I really seemed to get drunk fast but not get drunker and drunker. I will be interested to see how a bit of Soju goes.

Edited by Adamzski, 06 June 2013 - 06:02 AM.

[mikeinnaples]

got into a fight with a marine that resulted in a smashed up bar(that we had to pay for..) and me not being able to move my arm for a month after being jiu jitsued by the mofo..

Mistake #1: Your drinking problem

Mistake #2: Getting in a fight with a Marine or ex-Marine. You are lucky he didn't kill you, because that is exactly what we get trained to do. Given what you are saying about yourself, I am willing to bet it was your fault......

Edited by mikeinnaples, 06 June 2013 - 01:22 PM.

[Adamzski]

Yes it is not something that I want to make a habit of lol.. I really had no use of my arm for a month, pain on any movement for two months and effects for 4 months. Only once I got serious back into the gym recently did it really go away.

And I could tell you the whole story but it is not needed, basicaly he looked bad in front of people as his girl was talking to me when he got there. I did not escalate anything to a physical confrontation and was no threat to him or anyone else that night until he got me a little angry by almost tearing my arm off. Im not trained in anything except a year of kenpo years and years ago but after him juijitsuing my arm off, full of adrenalin I managed to kick/punch his face in somewhat.
If left alone together without people breaking it up then yes he could of probably killed me but hehe it wouldnt have been so easy.

Edit: thou my drunkardness did prevent me from de escalating the situation and backing down which is what I would usually do

Edited by Adamzski, 06 June 2013 - 01:41 PM.

[Adamzski]

I had a 150mg extended release wellbutrin at about 1pm today taking I think 1.5mg C60 in the morning and another dose of 1.5mg about 20min before the wellbutrin. I had pain just above my pelvis in my gut, not bad pain but I could feel it. Felt strange going to my office, some moderate social anxiety, was focused on my work and did not waste any time on the net.

Even before C60 it seems that the effects of wellbutrin start for me much sooner than when I first took it. I know its effects well and notice things like increased sweating and a slightly dry mouth. I was also trying to tee a girl up for tonight, that is really a wellbutrin effect.

I will take wellbutrin every second day and get some milk thistle.

[Andre69]

After a while not taking C60 I decided to try soak half of the dosing I used to take on bread so that I make sure it is taken up by the digestive system, since when taking the oil directly, C60 could flow into blood stream without digestion taking place.

Effects are as previously metioned. Lightly dizzy and my eyes were burning and some weird feeling on my right side which I suppose is the kidney. The effects were less intese though. Probably because of the smaller dose and because I took it with bread.

Does anyone know what is meant by pure fullerenes in this link? They are saying that pure fullerenes are more toxic than polycarboxylated ones.


http://books.google....d=0CEYQ6AEwBTgK

[niner]

After a while not taking C60 I decided to try soak half of the dosing I used to take on bread so that I make sure it is taken up by the digestive system, since when taking the oil directly, C60 could flow into blood stream without digestion taking place.

Effects are as previously metioned. Lightly dizzy and my eyes were burning and some weird feeling on my right side which I suppose is the kidney. The effects were less intese though. Probably because of the smaller dose and because I took it with bread.

Does anyone know what is meant by pure fullerenes in this link? They are saying that pure fullerenes are more toxic than polycarboxylated ones.

http://books.google....d=0CEYQ6AEwBTgK

Pure, or "pristine" fullerenes are just the c60 molecule alone with nothing bonded to it. In c60-oo, the c60 is bound to long chain fatty acids, mostly, although there might be a very small amount of truly pristine c60 that remains in the solution. I don't think that most of what they talk about in this book is really comparable to what we're using, because the book is mostly about particulate forms, while c60-oo is a molecular form. In the book, they mention pristine c60 being hepatoprotective, citing reference 166. As it happens, 166 is one of the few references that are deleted in the free version of the book, so I'm not sure, but it really sounds like they are talking about Baati et al. there. If so, they are misinterpreting it as "pristine".

I don't know what's going on in your case, but it sounds like c60-oo isn't a good idea for you.

[markymark]

Just a quick note on lab. tests. One week ago, I did the third blood test since starting the C60-oo (S. Vaughter's product) on feb. 9th this year and I am enjoying the positive effects of the oil, which have been reported here by others. All lab.-results came back normal or good: Red and white blood cells, thrombocytes, liver and kidney parameters, testosterone, cortisol.....

While enjoying those benefits, I'd like to suggest to be aware of the hedonistic treadmill-phenomenon, at least from time to time. One might get accustomed to the positive effects all to soon, and at least for me it makes sense to go back in time and to remember how I felt prior starting the oil. It is also helpful to look at the objective measurements and notes on physical capabilities one might have made in the calender. In my case these are: the improvements in finishing time on my running course and the numbers of chinups.
So, for me the next interesting things are:
Which supplement(s) might be the best combination partners to C60? Dosage regimens?
When will the next peer review papers on the quality-level of the Baati et al.-one will be published and no matter be it rats, mics, cells or humans?
And of course, all the sometimes more, sometimes less helpful / interesting postings of this community.
regs to all
mm

[Andre69]

Thanks a lot niner! Yeah I believe so too that C60 is nothing for me. It feels some what like an immune response ( I have read somewhere that phagocytes remove fullerenes so its plausible)

One thing though I would like to add as a positive effect of C60 is that everytime I have been taking it and then stopping, the first days after stopping I felt very positive. Every thought I made, made me have goosebumps in a nice way. Every positive thought seemed more positive and was kind of overwhelming, thats why I got goosebumps.
But ofcourse that does not give me enough reason to continue the treatment.