3585 replies to this topic

[smithx]

Nice info niner! I'm TT but will try to stay away from statins anyway...

[platypus]

Maybe consider genetic testing: http://www.mayomedic...nt.php?id=20269 (this test is only for simvastatin-users). I

If you have 23AndMe, (now only $99- quite a deal, IMHO) you can get this result by browsing your raw data and looking up the SNP rs4149056 in the gene SLC01B1. Having CC in this position dramatically increases your chances of myopathy. As it happens, I'm TT, but still had some mild myopathy from Lipitor, which I quit in short order.

Any idea when they might launch their next chip?

I also take quite a bit of lecithin...a spoonful of sunflower lecithin granules couple times a day with a handful of various supps.

Why do you take lecithin? Some people argue that men should avoid lecithin due to the phytoestrogens in soy.

[Turnbuckle]

One of the things I discovered in my reading was that the incidence of negative muscle and cognition effects from statins is pretty low. Making me unlucky, I guess.

When there are billions in profits at stake, you can't trust corporate/government statistics. Ask the people you know if they are taking statins and if they're having any negative effects. I did, and about half reported problems.

[Hebbeh]

I also take quite a bit of lecithin...a spoonful of sunflower lecithin granules couple times a day with a handful of various supps.

Why do you take lecithin? Some people argue that men should avoid lecithin due to the phytoestrogens in soy.

If you notice, I said sunflower lecithin, not soy lecithin. Regardless, I have taken soy lecithin in years gone by and the myth about phytoestrogens in soy lecithin is grossly over blown. First, the amount of estrogens in soy lecithin is between non-existent and trace amounts at most (check the research) and second, we're talking about gram amount doses of lecithin. Whats non-existent to trace amounts of minuscule amounts? If we were talking other soy food products, then yes, I'd be worried.....worried enough to not eat any soy based food products where you are eating the whole soy bean. But purified lecithin has had everything else removed. That's what the research says.

And there are many health benefits to lecithin in addition to assisting in absorbing fat soluble nutrients (supplements)....more than I can address in a simple post.

[smithx]

Just an update on the old dog mentioned in my previous post, quoted below.

It was given two 1 oz bottles of C60 Olive Oil over the course of about 3 months, and then given no more. It's vitality has continued to improve, as would be expected according to my hypothesis of one of the modes of action of the C60OO.

It was lying around and hardly moving when it first started getting the C60, and now it runs around and gets into dogfights

The hypothesis, first stated here is that C60OO reduces oxidation of proteins and thereby preserves their functionality. In the case of activity, one major contributor is likely the 'ryanodine receptor', which is damaged in older individuals, through oxidation. It would take some time for the damaged proteins to be consumed and replaced with new ones.

Eventually more new undamaged proteins would be in place, and they would stay relatively undamaged through the action of the C60. This would cause a gradual improvement in activity level over time.

I convinced my friend to give his 13 year old Australian Shepard C60 olive oil two weeks ago.

This dog was extremely aged, wouldn't get up to take walks, didn't move very much, and really seemed to be on his last legs.

My friend started giving him the olive oil on bread, but has only given him a few drops at a time. Over 3/4 is left in the 1 ounce bottle. But there have already been remarkable changes.

The dog now chases people and other dogs around, as he used to. He's been humping other dogs when they go out, a first in at least a year. And he's been jumping on people again.

Yes, this dog is kind of a jerk. But still, it's a good test for C60. He had been extremely low activity in the last couple of years and is now back to the way he was over a year ago. He still has not jumped into the station wagon back door as he used to, but that may still happen before all of the 1 ounce is gone. I'll write an update if there's more news.

This is the first first-hand evidence I've seen that C60 works, and it's really remarkable.

[sthira]

It was lying around and hardly moving when it first started getting the C60, and now it runs around and gets into dogfights

The hypothesis, first stated here is that C60OO reduces oxidation of proteins and thereby preserves their functionality.

Wouldn't it have been cool if you'd have shot before and after video of this decrepit dog now brought back to its former nastiness?

If anyone one else reads these words and explores c60-olive oil with their own sad old canine, please remember to shoot objective before and after video.

[niner]

The hypothesis, first stated here is that C60OO reduces oxidation of proteins and thereby preserves their functionality. In the case of activity, one major contributor is likely the 'ryanodine receptor', which is damaged in older individuals, through oxidation. It would take some time for the damaged proteins to be consumed and replaced with new ones.

Eventually more new undamaged proteins would be in place, and they would stay relatively undamaged through the action of the C60. This would cause a gradual improvement in activity level over time.

There are some iron-sulfur proteins in the mitochondria that are particularly good candidates for that hypothesis, as they are quite susceptible to oxidation and are involved in energy production. Most enzymes are turned over fairly quickly (on the order of several days, -ish), so I wouldn't expect a long term gradual improvement by this mechanism. Membrane oxidation is another thing to consider. Lipid peroxidation causes problems.

Wouldn't it have been cool if you'd have shot before and after video of this decrepit dog now brought back to its former nastiness?

If anyone one else reads these words and explores c60-olive oil with their own sad old canine, please remember to shoot objective before and after video.

I think that it would be hard to get truly objective video, since you could shoot the dog when he was sleeping in the before vid, and then when he was doing something in the after vid, as an extreme example. You'd need a long term study of the dog's activity to really be objective.

We've had a number of reports of remarkable improvements in old dogs from c60. I suspect that mitochondrial dysfunction is a problem with old dogs, so c60 is just what the doctor (vet?) ordered.

[niner]

Here's an example of an antioxidant improving mitochondrial function in aged dogs:

J Anim Sci. 2013 Jan;91(1):268-75. doi: 10.2527/jas.2012-5341. Epub 2012 Oct 16.
Astaxanthin modulates age-associated mitochondrial dysfunction in healthy dogs.
Park JS, Mathison BD, Hayek MG, Zhang J, Reinhart GA, Chew BP.

Washington State University, Pullman, WA 99164, USA.

Young (2.97&plusmn;0.01 yr; 8.16&plusmn;0.15 kg BW) and geriatric (10.71&plusmn;0.01 yr; 9.46&plusmn;0.18 kg BW) healthy female Beagle dogs (n=14/age group) were fed 0 or 20 mg astaxanthin daily for 16 wk to examine modulation of mitochondrial function. Fasted blood was sampled on wk 0, 8, and 16. Mitochondria membrane permeability, ATP production, cytochrome c oxidase/reductase, and number were assessed in leukocytes whereas astaxanthin uptake, glutathione, superoxide dismutase, nitric oxide, 8-hydroxy-2'-deoxyguanosine, 8-isoprostane, and protein carbonyl were measured in plasma. Aging increased (P<0.05) complex III cytochrome c oxidoreductase but decreased (P<0.05) 8-hydroxy-2'-deoxyguanosine and protein carbonyl. Mitochondrial function improved in both young and geriatric dogs by increasing (P<0.05) ATP production, mitochondria mass, and cytochrome c oxidoreductase activity, especially in geriatric dogs compared with young dogs. Astaxanthin feeding also increased (P<0.05) the reduced glutathione to oxidized glutathione ratio in young dogs and decreased (P<0.05) nitric oxide in both young and geriatric dogs. Dietary astaxanthin improved mitochondrial function in blood leukocytes, most likely by alleviating oxidative damage to cellular DNA and protein.

PMID: 23100599

[Authentic]

In terms of testing on a younger small dog, I began giving weekly C60 to a mixed-breed small dog that had a problem with her knee. The problem could only be truly fixed via surgery but after a few weeks of C60 the limp has gone away and hasn't come back (before it used to go away a few days then come back and repeat for the past year). It's been months now which is the longest she's gone without limping in 18 months. We've been increasing her ball-throwing times since she can handle more now.

Of course this is entirely anecdotal but still, it's nice to see this improvement.

[YOLF]

Well no shortage of data then! I think the distinct difference between the healing of the control and the c60 is very clear. The final picture taken today shows how prominent the colouring still is (or can be at times, it is typically much paler). Just below, near the wrist, you might make out the shadow of the control burn which is now around 30 days old, but has changed little in the last couple of weeks.

'pre c60' corresponds to the larger burn on the right of the two occurring 1 hour before the first administration of c60; 'post c60' naturally corresponds to the burn three hours after the c60 was administered. Once again the images are labelled, so mouse-over where it is unclear when on the timeline the image was taken.

[you're welcome Andey]

You should post this experiment in it's own thread. I think it needs more debate.

[sthira]

I think that it would be hard to get truly objective video, since you could shoot the dog when he was sleeping in the before vid, and then when he was doing something in the after vid, as an extreme example. You'd need a long term study of the dog's activity to really be objective.

Yeah it wouldn't be objective, I suppose, to document changes based on c60 influences upon an ailing dog's health. But it would be interesting, and perhaps one small step above anecdote alone. Documented anecdote, even if subjective has some art value, too. And if c60 in olive oil holds the kinds of secrets many seem to think then the art will grow, too. Who knows, maybe the resulting art -- subjective observations of pets administered c60 and documented with consumer gear -- may inspire further measured inquiry.

[smithx]

The hypothesis, first stated here is that C60OO reduces oxidation of proteins and thereby preserves their functionality. In the case of activity, one major contributor is likely the 'ryanodine receptor', which is damaged in older individuals, through oxidation. It would take some time for the damaged proteins to be consumed and replaced with new ones.

Eventually more new undamaged proteins would be in place, and they would stay relatively undamaged through the action of the C60. This would cause a gradual improvement in activity level over time.

There are some iron-sulfur proteins in the mitochondria that are particularly good candidates for that hypothesis, as they are quite susceptible to oxidation and are involved in energy production. Most enzymes are turned over fairly quickly (on the order of several days, -ish), so I wouldn't expect a long term gradual improvement by this mechanism. Membrane oxidation is another thing to consider. Lipid peroxidation causes problems.

According to this reference the turnover of ryanodine receptors is fairly slow, with a half life of 8 days. It may be slower in older individuals.

This slow replacement could help to explain the continued improvement over several weeks, since it could take a few weeks for all the ryanodine receptors to be replaced.

I don't think that mitochondrial function improvement alone is responsible for the increased activity. Since muscular function is so degraded by oxidation of ryanodine receptors, making it take much more ATP to move a muscle, increased ATP can only go so far. To really see major improvements, the ryanodine receptor itself has to be in better condition so that there is less resistance to movement.

The superoxide which is released by malfunctioning mitochondria is probably causing oxidation of enzymes in other parts of the cell, and by quenching the reactive oxygen species at the source, the C60 is allowing these other enzymes to remain functional longer.

[free10]

In terms of testing on a younger small dog, I began giving weekly C60 to a mixed-breed small dog that had a problem with her knee. The problem could only be truly fixed via surgery but after a few weeks of C60 the limp has gone away and hasn't come back (before it used to go away a few days then come back and repeat for the past year). It's been months now which is the longest she's gone without limping in 18 months. We've been increasing her ball-throwing times since she can handle more now.

Of course this is entirely anecdotal but still, it's nice to see this improvement.

Well here is a little more anecdotal stuff LOL

My knees started hurting right above the knee cap, when climbing ladders or squatting down after about the age of 52-55, and when I started taking TA65 it went away for awhile, but then came back. One thing I noticed with C60 was any problem with them stopped, after about 4 hours of taking C60 and days later it would come back, and now it seems to stay away when taking a 1/-1/2 teaspoon of C60 every 4 days or so. It is not just your dog LOL

[YOLF]

I think that it would be hard to get truly objective video, since you could shoot the dog when he was sleeping in the before vid, and then when he was doing something in the after vid, as an extreme example. You'd need a long term study of the dog's activity to really be objective.

Yeah it wouldn't be objective, I suppose, to document changes based on c60 influences upon an ailing dog's health. But it would be interesting, and perhaps one small step above anecdote alone. Documented anecdote, even if subjective has some art value, too. And if c60 in olive oil holds the kinds of secrets many seem to think then the art will grow, too. Who knows, maybe the resulting art -- subjective observations of pets administered c60 and documented with consumer gear -- may inspire further measured inquiry.

If the animal is on a food schedule, you could film their response to a particular stimulus at the same time daily. Getting a cat to chase a feather fishing pole where it is trained to catch the feather for a treat for instance or a dog to play fetch.

[TRUGAN]

On the ses site they have:

C60 1Gram

99.9% for 60.00
99.95% for 115.00

Which are you guys buying? Is it a big deal?

[niner]

I use the 99.95%. When you figure that a gram will last a couple years, it's only pennies per day. The advantage is that it takes a variable out of the equation- there's less concern about contaminants. Does it matter? Hard to say. Baati didn't use high purity c60, and neither do the commercial vendors. So far, the lower purity seems to work fine. One difficulty with higher purities is that they're harder to dissolve. The high purity crystal lattice is more stable because it's not disrupted by c70 molecules that are slightly oval-shaped. C70 is the main contaminant in C60. I'm not sure there's that much difference in dissolution between 99.9 and 99.95, but it's a factor for lower purities, like 99.5 or less. In the end, you pay almost double to lose 0.05% of what is mostly C70. Is C70 bad for you? I don't know. Chemically, it should behave fairly similar to C60. However, Turnbuckle made up a batch of C70-olive oil, and noticed some weird pains after taking it for a couple days, which prompted him to stop, as I recall. Whether that was a C70 problem or a coincidence is hard to say, but I don't know anyone who's anxious to try the experiment on themselves.

[Boris_Badenoff]

Can someone point me to, or private message me how and which olive oil to mix with a gram of 99.95 C60? I know other sites sell c60 already pre-mixed, but I am guessing that is not the economical way to go? I also would like to know what is a recommended dosage is and the best way to administer? Thanks for any help!

[Turnbuckle]

Chemically, it should behave fairly similar to C60. However, Turnbuckle made up a batch of C70-olive oil, and noticed some weird pains after taking it for a couple days, which prompted him to stop, as I recall. Whether that was a C70 problem or a coincidence is hard to say, but I don't know anyone who's anxious to try the experiment on themselves.

This was no coincidence, and it happened at a very low dose (70 µg of C70, twice a day). I'd previously posted this on my profile page--

A C60 extract containing 28% C70 & 2% higher fullerenes at a very low dose level (0.5 mg/day) resulted in steady pains in both calves after a few days, as well as several hours of pulsing pain in the back of my neck. This went away within a day or two of stopping.

One study found C70 in the endoplasmic reticulum (ER) rather than the mitochondria. In the ER it might interfere with protein synthesis.

A transient amount of C70 in the ER might not be a problem, and in fact I'd taken it before in single doses in rather larger quantities without apparent negative effects. Only when I went to the twice-a-day low-dose schedule did I find a problem.

Can someone point me to, or private message me how and which olive oil to mix with a gram of 99.95 C60? I know other sites sell c60 already pre-mixed, but I am guessing that is not the economical way to go? I also would like to know what is a recommended dosage is and the best way to administer? Thanks for any help!

See section 9 of my profile page.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 28 December 2013 - 08:13 PM.

[YOLF]

I use the 99.95%. When you figure that a gram will last a couple years, it's only pennies per day. The advantage is that it takes a variable out of the equation- there's less concern about contaminants. Does it matter? Hard to say. Baati didn't use high purity c60, and neither do the commercial vendors. So far, the lower purity seems to work fine. One difficulty with higher purities is that they're harder to dissolve. The high purity crystal lattice is more stable because it's not disrupted by c70 molecules that are slightly oval-shaped. C70 is the main contaminant in C60. I'm not sure there's that much difference in dissolution between 99.9 and 99.95, but it's a factor for lower purities, like 99.5 or less. In the end, you pay almost double to lose 0.05% of what is mostly C70. Is C70 bad for you? I don't know. Chemically, it should behave fairly similar to C60. However, Turnbuckle made up a batch of C70-olive oil, and noticed some weird pains after taking it for a couple days, which prompted him to stop, as I recall. Whether that was a C70 problem or a coincidence is hard to say, but I don't know anyone who's anxious to try the experiment on themselves.

The difference between the 99.9 and 99.95 is a vacuum oven. The commercial vendors (some of them) use a vacuum oven that can reach high enough temps to get the higher rating. So they buy 99.9 but use there own equipment to make it 99.95%

[Turnbuckle]

The difference between the 99.9 and 99.95 is a vacuum oven. The commercial vendors (some of them) use a vacuum oven that can reach high enough temps to get the higher rating. So they buy 99.9 but use there own equipment to make it 99.95%

This is what SES says about the stated purity of their products--Purity is expressed of fullerene content compared to other carbon fullerenes content. Example: Carbon 70 98% contains 98% C70 and 2% other carbon fullerenes

[TRUGAN]

Thanks guys. Im going with the 99.95.

[TRUGAN]

Is there anything our big rats shouldnt take while trying this?

My 200 pound rat has been taking pomegranate liquid extract from pom wonderful for 7 months and the plan is to do it for a year.

Other than that he takes a daily 325 mg aspirin, colostrum, prilosec and various vitamins.

Just checking to be sure.

[Andey]

I use the 99.95%. When you figure that a gram will last a couple years, it's only pennies per day. The advantage is that it takes a variable out of the equation- there's less concern about contaminants. Does it matter? Hard to say. Baati didn't use high purity c60, and neither do the commercial vendors. So far, the lower purity seems to work fine. One difficulty with higher purities is that they're harder to dissolve. The high purity crystal lattice is more stable because it's not disrupted by c70 molecules that are slightly oval-shaped. C70 is the main contaminant in C60. I'm not sure there's that much difference in dissolution between 99.9 and 99.95, but it's a factor for lower purities, like 99.5 or less. In the end, you pay almost double to lose 0.05% of what is mostly C70. Is C70 bad for you? I don't know. Chemically, it should behave fairly similar to C60. However, Turnbuckle made up a batch of C70-olive oil, and noticed some weird pains after taking it for a couple days, which prompted him to stop, as I recall. Whether that was a C70 problem or a coincidence is hard to say, but I don't know anyone who's anxious to try the experiment on themselves.

Difficulty for dissolve could be a problem because of need to expose solution for oxidation for longer period of time. It could mean that first dissolved part of c60 in the solution partially degrades when the last part is ready. There for using mortar looks sensible to prepare higher purities of C60.

[hav]

Is there anything our big rats shouldnt take while trying this?

My 200 pound rat has been taking pomegranate liquid extract from pom wonderful for 7 months and the plan is to do it for a year.

Other than that he takes a daily 325 mg aspirin, colostrum, prilosec and various vitamins.

Just checking to be sure.

I try to avoid ingesting high fiber things like high-bran cereals, chitosan, or fiber supplements at the same time as oils; an hour or two of separation is probably sufficient. Colostrum comes in various forms but I think the de-fatted water soluble is the most popular so you should probably separate that from oil ingestion. Everything else you mention either absorbs well with oils/fatty acids or has them already in it although there might be some variation among specific vitamins.

Howard

[TRUGAN]

Thanks

[niner]

The difference between the 99.9 and 99.95 is a vacuum oven. The commercial vendors (some of them) use a vacuum oven that can reach high enough temps to get the higher rating. So they buy 99.9 but use there own equipment to make it 99.95%

A vacuum oven wouldn't be able to remove C70 or higher fullerenes. It should do an OK job removing residual solvent, in this case toluene, but there's only so much of it there. If they start with 99.9 and bake it, it will get a little better, but won't be the same thing as the 99.95%. I just hope they aren't starting with a less pure material, like 99.5%.

Difficulty for dissolve could be a problem because of need to expose solution for oxidation for longer period of time. It could mean that first dissolved part of c60 in the solution partially degrades when the last part is ready. There for using mortar looks sensible to prepare higher purities of C60.

Probably the best approach is to stir it in a sealed flask, and fill it up with oil so that there is little air space. I used to like the mortar and pestle idea, but as I've learned about the air sensitivity of C60, I'm starting to prefer the stirring method, which would cause the least exposure of c60 to air.

[AgeVivo]

Hello, I have discussed with Fathi Moussa recently. He thinks that it could be dangerous to produce c60 by non specialists, especially is the degree of purity is low, as there could be (very) toxic compounds as well. He told me that he will send me something written that could be posted, so that it will be more precise. Cheers.

[TRUGAN]

Oh damn! I just bought all the crap from Amazon to make it and the C60.

what about the bottle I bought from carbon60oliveoil.com?

[Hebbeh]

Hello, I have discussed with Fathi Moussa recently. He thinks that it could be dangerous to produce c60 by non specialists, especially is the degree of purity is low, as there could be (very) toxic compounds as well. He told me that he will send me something written that could be posted, so that it will be more precise. Cheers.

I assume he is referring to attempting to make your own C60 as compared to just home brewing your own C60/EVOO solution with C60 purchased from SES?

I doubt anybody here is actually attempting to manufacture their own C60 molecules.

Edited by Hebbeh, 30 December 2013 - 12:24 AM.

[TRUGAN]

Oh I see. Thanks for the clarification.