3585 replies to this topic

[TRUGAN]

A good friend of mine just got diagnosed with liver cancer. I dont know what kind of treatment they will give him yet but I was thinking of buying a bottle of C60 for him. You guys dont think it would hurt him or i interfere with any treatments he would get do you? I was hoping it might help but I dont want to cause him any problems.

[ambivalent]

Hi,

I am sorry for you and your friend's current circumstance. I can't advise on c60 as my understanding is very limited. However, the trial conducted by a longecity forum member (below) certainly cooled the optimism that might have surfaced from the Baati study on c60's cancer-preventitive powers. But no one can be certain of much yet.

http://www.longecity...y/page__st__270

One area of research whch interests me is fasting - there are some links below that suggest fasting before treatment improves the effectiveness of chemotherapy and radiotherapy.


http://www.marksdail.../#axzz2V434bh5q

(note the 2012 study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22323820)

http://www.economist...ting-and-cancer

http://news.usc.edu/...iation-therapy/

For some balance an article a cancer website on fastng's effect on fasting as a treatment for cancer.

(I know little more than I've read here, so please research/consult further)

Good luck.

Edited by ambivalent, 31 December 2013 - 11:48 AM.

[TRUGAN]

Thanks ambivalent!

[ambivalent]

you're welcome mrwhitee

I missed off the cancer website article:

http://www.cancer.or...trition/fasting

[d4shing]

If they're giving him Chemo, the FDA is funding a study on Mushrooms to supplement chemotherapy.

http://www.bastyr.ed...cancer-patients

[niner]

A good friend of mine just got diagnosed with liver cancer. I dont know what kind of treatment they will give him yet but I was thinking of buying a bottle of C60 for him. You guys dont think it would hurt him or i interfere with any treatments he would get do you? I was hoping it might help but I dont want to cause him any problems.

Sorry to hear about your friend, mrwhitee. In this case I'd advise against using c60. Because cancer cells tend to be oxidatively challenged, giving them a potent antioxidant like c60 might preferentially help the cancer cells over the healthy cells. It might also interfere with treatments, depending on what they're using.

[Adamzski]

Recently I switched from 6-10 sugary packet coffee mixes per day to about the same number of organic green tea's, I also started taking 2-4g of Vitamin C per day.
No more hangovers at all... Last week I drank three 360ml bottles of Soju 17% alc along with 1.5L of beer and last night I drank similar, woke up expecting to feel like shite but did not. This Soju stuff gives nasty mind numbing hangovers usually.. C60 did not seem to reduce hangovers at all for me, it certainly did not give me the experience that I am having now where I feel no ill effects after drinking a lot.

All C60 did to me was make me sleep all the time, made me able to sleep 16hrs in a day, i'm thinking to start it again to get some good rest but I would like to get an idea of why it makes me sleep so much first.

And hope all have a great year!

[TRUGAN]

Thanks guys. I guess I definitely will not give it to him.

Maybe later down the road if they get him all fixed up but not while they are treating him.

[mikey]

A good friend of mine just got diagnosed with liver cancer. I dont know what kind of treatment they will give him yet but I was thinking of buying a bottle of C60 for him. You guys dont think it would hurt him or i interfere with any treatments he would get do you? I was hoping it might help but I dont want to cause him any problems.

Sorry to hear about your friend, mrwhitee. In this case I'd advise against using c60. Because cancer cells tend to be oxidatively challenged, giving them a potent antioxidant like c60 might preferentially help the cancer cells over the healthy cells. It might also interfere with treatments, depending on what they're using.

I risk being slammed, but I disagree. Since none of the Wistar rats in the study died with cancerous tumors and normally all Wistar rats do die with cancer, I would assume that C60oo would be highly protective of cancer and I expect that I will never get cancer because I take 7 mg of C60oo every morning.

It seems that one of the benefits that we might expect from C60oo is protection from cancer, so I am dumbfounded to see highly intelligent people on this group think otherwise.

I strongly suggest consideration of taking C60oo for it's anti-cancer effects.

Also, as Dr. Moussa said in his video interview, C60 is absolutely non-toxic, so I take it assuming that it causes no cytotoxicity.

[platypus]

There's not enough data to know what c60 does to existing cancers.

[Turnbuckle]

It seems that one of the benefits that we might expect from C60oo is protection from cancer, so I am dumbfounded to see highly intelligent people on this group think otherwise.

Yeah, you might expect it, but it is hardly proven. What the rats in the Baati trial died of was not disclosed, and of the rats in the uncontrolled study by a member here, all had tumors at death. In this later case, I suspect the C60 oil was old and possibly rancid. In which case it may have become a pro-oxidant rather than an anti-oxidant.

Still, if you boost mito function in cancer cells, they can't remain cancer cells, so C60/EVOO does seem a possible treatment.

Also, as Dr. Moussa said in his video interview, C60 is absolutely non-toxic, so I take it assuming that it causes no cytotoxicity.

You need to get past Moussa's loose statements. He also said if not prepared properly, it could be dangerous. So it can't be absolutely non-toxic and possibly dangerous. Besides, there's not a single drug ever created that is absolutely non-toxic, so Moussa is in no position to say anything about rare effects in humans based on a few rats.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 01 January 2014 - 11:56 AM.

[mikey]

It seems that one of the benefits that we might expect from C60oo is protection from cancer, so I am dumbfounded to see highly intelligent people on this group think otherwise.

Yeah, you might expect it, but it is hardly proven. What the rats in the Baati trial died of was not disclosed, and of the rats in the uncontrolled study by a member here, all had tumors at death. In this later case, I suspect the C60 oil was old and possibly rancid. In which case it may have become a pro-oxidant rather than an anti-oxidant.

Still, if you boost mito function in cancer cells, they can't remain cancer cells, so C60/EVOO does seem a possible treatment.

Also, as Dr. Moussa said in his video interview, C60 is absolutely non-toxic, so I take it assuming that it causes no cytotoxicity.

You need to get past Moussa's loose statements. He also said if not prepared properly, it could be dangerous. So it can't be absolutely non-toxic and possibly dangerous. Besides, there's not a single drug ever created that is absolutely non-toxic, so Moussa is in no position to say anything about rare effects in humans based on a few rats.

Describing his statement as a "loose" statement is an assumption that he wasn't quite careful in what he said. And, since he's been studying C60 for 18 years, we can be sure that he's not making that statement based only on the rat study. His experience is a library of information.

Since, C60oo proved to be quite protective of the liver, it seems as if its antioxidant effect would address liver cancer.

Further, the methods that conventional medicine use to treat cancer are, in general, sometimes worse on metabolism than without them.

For instance - http://www.beating-c...with_cancer.pdf

[Turnbuckle]

Describing his statement as a "loose" statement is an assumption that he wasn't quite careful in what he said. And, since he's been studying C60 for 18 years, we can be sure that he's not making that statement based only on the rat study. His experience is a library of information.

Exactly what did he say, mikey? Did he say C60 was absolutely non-toxic, or did he say C60 in olive oil was absolutely non-toxic? Because those are different situations. This is what he (and others) say in another paper--

Available data clearly shows that pristine C60 has no acute or sub-acute toxicity in a large variety of living organisms, from bacteria and fungal to human leukocytes, and also in drosophila, mice, rats and guinea pigs. In contrast to chemically--either covalently or noncovalently--modified fullerenes, some C60 derivatives can be highly toxic. Furthermore, under light exposure, C60 is an efficient singlet oxygen sensitizer. Therefore, if pristine C60 is absolutely nontoxic under dark conditions, this is not the case under UV-Visible irradiation and in the presence of O2 where fullerene solutions can be highly toxic through 1O2 formation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18217343

And C60 in olive oil is believed to have adducts, probably quite a variety of them, and it is presently unknown how toxic they might be. Not particularly, it seems. But certainly C70 in olive oil seemed toxic from my own trial with it, and the major difference is apparently where in the cell it ends up.

[TRUGAN]

I think he needs to study this thread and c60 and decide if he wants to try it. If you guys have any other thoughts please continue to share them so he will see it.

Thanks so much!

[TRUGAN]

Anyone have a link to buy a 1 liter bottle of appropriate oil that I can drop the spinner directly in?

[TRUGAN]

Going by turnbuckles formula:

0.8 mg/ml (800 mg in 1 liter)

Would 400 mg in 500 ml bottle still give me 0.8 mg/ml ?

Unless I misunderstand which I very well may, Most of the 1 liter batch would go bad before I could use it if taking 5 ml once a week. Also, most of a 500 ml would go bad at that rate as well.

If I need to make 1 liter thats fine.

I'm just trying to figure the best option.

[niner]

A good friend of mine just got diagnosed with liver cancer. I dont know what kind of treatment they will give him yet but I was thinking of buying a bottle of C60 for him. You guys dont think it would hurt him or i interfere with any treatments he would get do you? I was hoping it might help but I dont want to cause him any problems.

Sorry to hear about your friend, mrwhitee. In this case I'd advise against using c60. Because cancer cells tend to be oxidatively challenged, giving them a potent antioxidant like c60 might preferentially help the cancer cells over the healthy cells. It might also interfere with treatments, depending on what they're using.

I risk being slammed, but I disagree. Since none of the Wistar rats in the study died with cancerous tumors and normally all Wistar rats do die with cancer, I would assume that C60oo would be highly protective of cancer and I expect that I will never get cancer because I take 7 mg of C60oo every morning.

It seems that one of the benefits that we might expect from C60oo is protection from cancer, so I am dumbfounded to see highly intelligent people on this group think otherwise.

I strongly suggest consideration of taking C60oo for it's anti-cancer effects.

Also, as Dr. Moussa said in his video interview, C60 is absolutely non-toxic, so I take it assuming that it causes no cytotoxicity.

Not a slam, Mikey, but I think that you're making a wrong assumption. Baati's rats that got c60-oo starting early in life didn't get cancer in the first place, but that's very different from curing existing cancer. We've already seen a case of a mouse that was started on C60 late in life, and presumably already had the beginnings of a tumor. That mouse had a visible tumor when it died. Stopping a normal cell from transforming to a cancer cell means preventing genetic and epigenetic changes (which could come about through the sort of ROS damage that C60 prevents), but killing an out-of-control cancerous cell is a completely different animal. That would involve fixing whatever is preventing apoptosis, or whatever is preventing the immune system from killing the broken cell. I can't think of any mechanism for C60 to do that. On the other hand, I CAN think of a mechanism whereby c60-oo might help a cancer cell more than a normal cell (via its redox activity), and that's why using it in someone who has cancer scares me.

[mikey]

Describing his statement as a "loose" statement is an assumption that he wasn't quite careful in what he said. And, since he's been studying C60 for 18 years, we can be sure that he's not making that statement based only on the rat study. His experience is a library of information.

Exactly what did he say, mikey? Did he say C60 was absolutely non-toxic, or did he say C60 in olive oil was absolutely non-toxic? Because those are different situations. This is what he (and others) say in another paper--

Available data clearly shows that pristine C60 has no acute or sub-acute toxicity in a large variety of living organisms, from bacteria and fungal to human leukocytes, and also in drosophila, mice, rats and guinea pigs. In contrast to chemically--either covalently or noncovalently--modified fullerenes, some C60 derivatives can be highly toxic. Furthermore, under light exposure, C60 is an efficient singlet oxygen sensitizer. Therefore, if pristine C60 is absolutely nontoxic under dark conditions, this is not the case under UV-Visible irradiation and in the presence of O2 where fullerene solutions can be highly toxic through 1O2 formation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18217343

And C60 in olive oil is believed to have adducts, probably quite a variety of them, and it is presently unknown how toxic they might be. Not particularly, it seems. But certainly C70 in olive oil seemed toxic from my own trial with it, and the major difference is apparently where in the cell it ends up.

He said pure C60 and he later said that the rats that were given C60oo died with no tumors, while the other rats died with tumors.

So do you think that if the C60oo is made with olive oil that has some rancidity that the C60 could present toxicity?

[Turnbuckle]

So do you think that if the C60oo is made with olive oil that has some rancidity that the C60 could present toxicity?

I think that is very likely. And if allowed to age at room temperature or exposed to UV, it will eventually get used up and become a pro-oxidant.

[niner]

Going by turnbuckles formula:

0.8 mg/ml (800 mg in 1 liter)

Would 400 mg in 500 ml bottle still give me 0.8 mg/ml ?

Unless I misunderstand which I very well may, Most of the 1 liter batch would go bad before I could use it if taking 5 ml once a week. Also, most of a 500 ml would go bad at that rate as well.

If I need to make 1 liter thats fine.

I'm just trying to figure the best option.

Yes, your math is right. It's also possible (and easier) to make a less concentrated solution, like 0.5 mg/ml, for example. As long as you have the ability to weigh with whatever precision you need, then you can make any size batch you want. If you have a really teeny tiny magnetic stirrer, you can make 1 ml. (Such things exist- the pharmaceutical industry went through a microsynthesis craze some years back.) At the opposite extreme, if you want to go the industrial route, you can make a thousand liters. For one person, something like 250 to 500 ml is pretty reasonable. If you can store it in small bottles with good-sealing screw caps, you could freeze multiple bottles, and only thaw one when you want to use it. It would keep for years if frozen and dark. Bottles should also be full, so there's not a large air space.

[YOLF]

Going by turnbuckles formula:

0.8 mg/ml (800 mg in 1 liter)

Would 400 mg in 500 ml bottle still give me 0.8 mg/ml ?

Unless I misunderstand which I very well may, Most of the 1 liter batch would go bad before I could use it if taking 5 ml once a week. Also, most of a 500 ml would go bad at that rate as well.

If I need to make 1 liter thats fine.

I'm just trying to figure the best option.

Yes, your math is right. It's also possible (and easier) to make a less concentrated solution, like 0.5 mg/ml, for example. As long as you have the ability to weigh with whatever precision you need, then you can make any size batch you want. If you have a really teeny tiny magnetic stirrer, you can make 1 ml. (Such things exist- the pharmaceutical industry went through a microsynthesis craze some years back.) At the opposite extreme, if you want to go the industrial route, you can make a thousand liters. For one person, something like 250 to 500 ml is pretty reasonable. If you can store it in small bottles with good-sealing screw caps, you could freeze multiple bottles, and only thaw one when you want to use it. It would keep for years if frozen and dark. Bottles should also be full, so there's not a large air space.

Tech exists to do professional food grade packaging with inert preservative gasses as well. Canning hobbyists use it.

[TRUGAN]

This oil should be fine?

http://shop.californ...liveRanch@Gifts

I have everything else ordered so this should be it unless there is some objection to it. Its just the first thing I found on Google.

[niner]

This oil should be fine?

http://shop.californ...liveRanch@Gifts

I have everything else ordered so this should be it unless there is some objection to it. Its just the first thing I found on Google.

This oil has bits of olive fruit floating in it. That's probably not a good idea for making c60-oo, unless you filter it first. I like http://amphoranueva.com . They have a lot of great oils, they tell you the chemistry and the harvest date, and the prices are reasonable. California Olive Ranch probably has some other oils that are clear- I know people here have mentioned them in the past.

[TRUGAN]

Oh man...I didnt see that it had stuff in it. I need to slow down.

Ill check the link you gave me.

[mikey]

So do you think that if the C60oo is made with olive oil that has some rancidity that the C60 could present toxicity?

I think that is very likely. And if allowed to age at room temperature or exposed to UV, it will eventually get used up and become a pro-oxidant.

Sounds like it's best to keep it in a refrigerator then.

[hav]

I think he needs to study this thread and c60 and decide if he wants to try it. If you guys have any other thoughts please continue to share them so he will see it.

Thanks so much!

Also suggest your friend asks the doctors providing the treatment whether the particular treatments being administered could be impacted by taking anti-oxidants. C60 is a pretty powerful one.

Howard

[free10]

One more point was they took rats and injected them with cancers and those on C60 lived 2 to 3 times the days before they died. It seems to interfere with its ability to spread.

One more note on eliminating cancer cells. It is possible to throw the genetic switches on them to where the genes switch back on that were shut off by the cancer process and to turn the ones on associated with cancer and the cells become normal cells again. Seems like they did that by elongating their telomeres. Cancerous cells keep a tight regulation on the telomere length not too long and not too short.

Edited by free10, 02 January 2014 - 10:43 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

So do you think that if the C60oo is made with olive oil that has some rancidity that the C60 could present toxicity?

I think that is very likely. And if allowed to age at room temperature or exposed to UV, it will eventually get used up and become a pro-oxidant.

Sounds like it's best to keep it in a refrigerator then.

Keeping it in the fridge gets you a 4-fold extension rather than a 16-fold in the freezer. And in the fridge, you will get separation when the waxy material freezes and the rest doesn't. In the freezer, everything freezes and it stays homogeneous.

One more point was they took rats and injected them with cancers and those on C60 lived 2 to 3 times the days before they died. It seems to interfere with its ability to spread.

That's new to me. Do you have a link?

[free10]

So do you think that if the C60oo is made with olive oil that has some rancidity that the C60 could present toxicity?

I think that is very likely. And if allowed to age at room temperature or exposed to UV, it will eventually get used up and become a pro-oxidant.

Sounds like it's best to keep it in a refrigerator then.

Keeping it in the fridge gets you a 4-fold extension rather than a 16-fold in the freezer. And in the fridge, you will get separation when the waxy material freezes and the rest doesn't. In the freezer, everything freezes and it stays homogeneous.

One more point was they took rats and injected them with cancers and those on C60 lived 2 to 3 times the days before they died. It seems to interfere with its ability to spread.

That's new to me. Do you have a link?

Not THE link, but here are some links

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21071824

www.electrochem.org/dl/ma/201/pdfs/1004.pdf

http://www.scienceda...70417154357.htm

I need sleep and tomorrow I will see if I can dig it back out of the internet.

[Turnbuckle]

Not THE link, but here are some links

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21071824

www.electrochem.org/dl/ma/201/pdfs/1004.pdf

http://www.scienceda...70417154357.htm

I need sleep and tomorrow I will see if I can dig it back out of the internet.

Yeah, not the same as injecting cancer. But it seems likely that if C60 does stimulate mitochondrial function, that will eliminate the Warburg effect (cancer cells shutting down mitochondria and resorting to glycolysis) and either normalize the cell or induce apoptosis (which requires functioning mitochondria).