3585 replies to this topic

[sensei]

More to the point is anyone else using c60OO and seeing hair colour reverting back to original colour?

Fascinating stuff anyway..

 

Perhaps a better question would be: Who is taking the dosages that I'm taking, and not seeing such unexpected results?

 

For instance;

 

I have taken fifty eight bottles of 45mg C60OO since starting in May 2014.

 

But of those 58, I have taken 20 since Dec 17 2014.

 

Based on that; in the last month I have taken 900 mg. (yeah I took a few more than every other day since I decided to start making my own)

 

So my average intake over the last month is 30mg a day -- approximately 20 times the "recommended daily dose" per at least 1 commercial vendor.

 

Today I took 2 bottles -- 90 mg.  I have taken 135mg in one day before.

 

I think one of the forum members with a username of mait is taking more than I am, and one is trying to replicate my hair experiment with equivalent dosing; - but I don't know of any others.

 

My milligram scale arrived yesterday, my 5 grams of 99.95% vacuum dried C60 shipped yesterday from S.E.S. and olive oil is at the grocer's.

 

I may continue every other day 45mg/50ml -- or I may up dosing  to every day; heck I may even go up to 90mg/day have not decided --it will be based on $$ and side effects

Edited by sensei, 18 January 2015 - 01:35 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

More to the point is anyone else using c60OO and seeing hair colour reverting back to original colour?

Fascinating stuff anyway..

 

Perhaps a better question would be: Who is taking the dosages that I'm taking, and not seeing such unexpected results?

 

For instance;

 

I have taken fifty eight bottles of 45mg C60OO since starting in May 2014.

 

But of those 58, I have taken 20 since Dec 17 2014.

 

Based on that; in the last month I have taken 900 mg. (yeah I took a few more than every other day since I decided to start making my own)

 

So my average intake over the last month is 30mg a day -- approximately 20 times the "recommended daily dose" per at least 1 commercial vendor.

 

Today I took 2 bottles -- 90 mg.  I have taken 135mg in one day before.

 

I think one of the forum members with a username of mait is taking more than I am, and one is trying to replicate my hair experiment with equivalent dosing; - but I don't know of any others.

 

My milligram scale arrived yesterday, my 5 grams of 99.95% vacuum dried C60 shipped yesterday from S.E.S. and olive oil is at the grocer's.

 

I may continue every other day 45mg/50ml -- or I may up dosing  to every day; heck I may even go up to 90mg/day have not decided --it will be based on $$ and side effects

 

 

Are you taking more and more because you aren't getting the results you first saw?

[sensei]

 

 

Are you taking more and more because you aren't getting the results you first saw?

 

 

I have wanted to take 45mg/50ml a day just could not afford it but the last batch was my Christmas present to myself. ( at $20/ bottle that's $7300 a year) -- and until recently did not realize it could be made at home by shaking (thought you needed a stirrer, vacuum filter, centrifuge etc)

 

The two reasons I'm not going all out and taking 1.7mg/kg dosage (like the rats) daily is because 1. I cant afford it right now and 2. I don't want 1350 calories a day from olive oil. 

 

I can deal with 450 calories a day from olive oil (50ml) and at 45mg/day it will only cost $125/month buying from S.E.S. 5 grams at a time

 

Every once in  ahile I may take 90 or 135 mg in one day -- just for shits and grins.

 

Edited by sensei, 18 January 2015 - 04:01 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

 

Are you taking more and more because you aren't getting the results you first saw?

 

 

I have wanted to take 45mg/50ml a day just could not afford it but the last batch was my Christmas present to myself. ( at $20/ bottle that's $7300 a year) -- and until recently did not realize it could be made at home by shaking (thought you needed a stirrer, vacuum filter, centrifuge etc)

 

The two reasons I'm not going all out and taking 1.7mg/kg dosage (like the rats) daily is because 1. I cant afford it right now and 2. I don't want 1350 calories a day from olive oil. 

 

I can deal with 450 calories a day from olive oil (50ml) and at 45mg/day it will only cost $125/month buying from S.E.S. 5 grams at a time

 

Every once in  ahile I may take 90 or 135 mg in one day -- just for shits and grins.

 

 

I've come to believe that the effect of C60 is bi-modal. It acts as an antioxidant, certainly, but it also does something else--perhaps stimulating the differentiation of stem cells--which seems to be subject to homeostasis. So if you take it every day, you will need more and more C60 to get the same effect. And a bit of concern--the Baati paper observed that the highest dose rats had crystals of C60 forming in their cells. The consequence of that is unknown, but it can't be good. So the intermittent schedule they used may have been fortuitous. It got around the the homeostasis effect and avoided the build up of crystals.

[sensei]

 

 

I've come to believe that the effect of C60 is bi-modal. It acts as an antioxidant, certainly, but it also does something else--perhaps stimulating the differentiation of stem cells--which seems to be subject to homeostasis. So if you take it every day, you will need more and more C60 to get the same effect. And a bit of concern--the Baati paper observed that the highest dose rats had crystals of C60 forming in their cells. The consequence of that is unknown, but it can't be good. So the intermittent schedule they used may have been fortuitous. It got around the the homeostasis effect and avoided the build up of crystals.

 

 

You say highest dose rats -- but the 3 groups received by oral gavage either water;  OO, or 1.7mg/kg C60OO.

 

What part of the Baati study gave groups of rats differing levels of C60?

 

Deleted -- answered by you on the other thread.

 

But -- the crystals were only seen in the 4mg/kg IP injection case

 

"While transmission electron microscopy (TEM) at D8 after i.p.

administration shows numerous spleen macrophages laden C60

crystals (Fig. 2e) only some C60 crystals were observed inside liver

macrophages and very rare crystals in lung (Fig. 2f) and kidney cells

(Fig. 2g)"

 

Like I said on the other thread, I'm not about to inject  320mg/400ml C60OO into my body cavity every day for a week.

Edited by sensei, 18 January 2015 - 04:31 AM.

[sthira]

Are you curious about what may happen if crystals of c60 form in (your own) cells?

[sensei]

Are you curious about what may happen if crystals of c60 form in (your own) cells?

 

Nope, because there is no evidence that crystals form from oral administration.

[sensei]

Documenting making C60 by manual shaking --- 225 mg 99.95% pure C60 (measured by milligram capable electronic scale) added to ~250 ml olive oil  no crushing with mortal and pestle

Attached Files

•  Day 2.jpg   83.18KB   5 downloads

[Turnbuckle]

 

Are you curious about what may happen if crystals of c60 form in (your own) cells?

 

Nope, because there is no evidence that crystals form from oral administration.

 

 

 

Indeed there is evidence. Read the Baati paper.

[sensei]

 

 

Are you curious about what may happen if crystals of c60 form in (your own) cells?

 

Nope, because there is no evidence that crystals form from oral administration.

 

 

 

Indeed there is evidence. Read the Baati paper.

 

The Baati paper was specific regarding crystal formation was only from intraperitoneal injection at 4mg/kg

 

They actually propose the crystal formation was due to the act of injection itself.

 

"The presence

of C60 crystals inside the cells after i.p. administration (Fig. 2)

supports the hypothesis according to which the precipitation of

part of the administered C60 in the injection site may contribute to

the observed delay of elimination after i.p. administration."

 

From the paper

Edited by sensei, 24 January 2015 - 02:37 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

 

Are you curious about what may happen if crystals of c60 form in (your own) cells?

 

Nope, because there is no evidence that crystals form from oral administration.

 

 

 

Indeed there is evidence. Read the Baati paper.

 

The Baati paper was specific regarding crystal formation was only from intraperitoneal injection at 4mg/kg

 

 

 

It's a matter of dose and how rapidly it is administered. Crystals are observed in organs where C60 concentrates, and is higher in IP vs OP, but occurs in both--

 

Microscopic examination of the spleen reticuloendothelial system (RES), where the highest concentrations are observed, shows the presence of some C60 aggregates that are larger and more numerous after i.p. administration than after o.g.

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 24 January 2015 - 02:35 PM.

[mait]

Hi, sensei. I am actually taking less C60 than You. For last 2 months I have been taking 40mg of C60 every other day (on odd dates) - so my daily dosage is around 20mg per day. I am using 24/7 mixing schedule for 7 days to "brew" my home made C60. I am using 0.4mg c60 per 1ml - less concentrated solution helps to save the time and effort on stirring.

[sensei]

 

 

 

It's a matter of dose and how rapidly it is administered. Crystals are observed in organs where C60 concentrates, and is higher in IP vs OP, but occurs in both--

 

Microscopic examination of the spleen reticuloendothelial system (RES), where the highest concentrations are observed, shows the presence of some C60 aggregates that are larger and more numerous after i.p. administration than after o.g.

 

 

 

"shows the presence of some C60 aggregates that are

larger and more numerous after i.p. administration (Fig. 2c and d)

than after o.g. (Fig. 2a, b):"

 

The only arrows showing aggregates are in c and d -- which in the body of the paper -- specifically refer to IP administration. The figure itself is labeled inconsistently with the body --

 

"Optical and electronic microscopies. Biodistibution studies after 7 successive days of C60-olive oil treatment (4 mg/kg bw). Optical microscopy of spleen sections (Hematoxylin-Eosin

staining, magnification ¼ 1000): (a) oral and (b) i.p. treatment with olive oil only; © oral and (d) i.p. treatment with C60-olive oil. The arrows indicate C60 crystalscontaining

macrophages with specific brown colour. Transmission electron microscopy: compared to (e) spleen macrophages, TEM micrographs show only a few C60 crystals inside

(f) lung and (g) kidney macrophages."

 

 

With the inconsistencies above ( they have already issued 1 corrigendum) -- and this exerpt

 

"Nevertheless,

the weakness of organ concentrations notably at D8 after 7

daily successive administrations of C60 dissolved in olive oil clearly

shows that C60 molecules are eliminated from the organs in a few

hours after both oral and i.p. administrations."

 

It is unclear to what level if any aggregates form from oral administration.

 

Furthermore -- I would have to drink 400ml of Olive oil on 7 consecutive days -- I don't know if even I could keep that much oil down -- much less that it would not rapidly come out the other end.

Edited by sensei, 24 January 2015 - 02:50 PM.

[sensei]

Hi, sensei. I am actually taking less C60 than You. For last 2 months I have been taking 40mg of C60 every other day (on odd dates) - so my daily dosage is around 20mg per day. I am using 24/7 mixing schedule for 7 days to "brew" my home made C60. I am using 0.4mg c60 per 1ml - less concentrated solution helps to save the time and effort on stirring.

 

Mait, thanks for clarifying your dosage.

 

If it makes a difference to you, I mixed 225 mg to 250 ml --- and have been shaking by hand for 2 days -- you can see the color in this thread (recent posting) -- over half the sediment is gone I think it might only take 4-5 days to completely dissolve.  I haveit in a 1 liter Olive oil bottle with screw top. I shake 100 times twice mornig. and night

 

Can you provide any anecdotes of effects at your dosage?

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

Furthermore -- I would have to drink 400ml of Olive oil on 7 consecutive days -- I don't know if even I could keep that much oil down -- much less that it would not rapidly come out the other end.

 

 

 

Well that's the good thing, sensei, as the low solubility of C60 makes it difficult to take too much. I don't doubt that very large doses could do some damage, even though low doses appear to be beneficial. As a cautionary note, radium dissolved in water was once sold as a cure all, and it did seem to be beneficial (due, supposedly, to radiation hormesis) until Eben Byers drank a bottle every day for three years. Seems his bones melted and his jaw fell off. 

[ceridwen]

Surely anything taken to excess is toxic. One can kill oneself through drinking water. C60 seems protective in most of the accounts I've read the toxic dose would probably be very high

[YOLF]

 

More to the point is anyone else using c60OO and seeing hair colour reverting back to original colour?

Fascinating stuff anyway..

 

Perhaps a better question would be: Who is taking the dosages that I'm taking, and not seeing such unexpected results?

 

For instance;

 

I have taken fifty eight bottles of 45mg C60OO since starting in May 2014.

 

But of those 58, I have taken 20 since Dec 17 2014.

 

Based on that; in the last month I have taken 900 mg. (yeah I took a few more than every other day since I decided to start making my own)

 

So my average intake over the last month is 30mg a day -- approximately 20 times the "recommended daily dose" per at least 1 commercial vendor.

 

Today I took 2 bottles -- 90 mg.  I have taken 135mg in one day before.

 

I think one of the forum members with a username of mait is taking more than I am, and one is trying to replicate my hair experiment with equivalent dosing; - but I don't know of any others.

 

My milligram scale arrived yesterday, my 5 grams of 99.95% vacuum dried C60 shipped yesterday from S.E.S. and olive oil is at the grocer's.

 

I may continue every other day 45mg/50ml -- or I may up dosing  to every day; heck I may even go up to 90mg/day have not decided --it will be based on $$ and side effects

 

Whoa! That's got to be alot of oil. What's that going to do to your health? I think we need a better way to attach this stuff to lipids so larger doses can be taken in smaller amounts... The idea of drinking this much oil is just turning me off... There has to be a better way... Can you link to your experiment data?

[sensei]

Whoa! That's got to be alot of oil. What's that going to do to your health? I think we need a better way to attach this stuff to lipids so larger doses can be taken in smaller amounts... The idea of drinking this much oil is just turning me off... There has to be a better way... Can you link to your experiment data?

 

 

 

50 ml of oil is an easy drink  1/3 a glass of wine.

 

What experiment data are you referring to?

[YOLF]

 

Whoa! That's got to be alot of oil. What's that going to do to your health? I think we need a better way to attach this stuff to lipids so larger doses can be taken in smaller amounts... The idea of drinking this much oil is just turning me off... There has to be a better way... Can you link to your experiment data?

 

 

 

50 ml of oil is an easy drink  1/3 a glass of wine.

 

What experiment data are you referring to?

 

You said you had a hair experiment.

[sensei]

 

 

Whoa! That's got to be alot of oil. What's that going to do to your health? I think we need a better way to attach this stuff to lipids so larger doses can be taken in smaller amounts... The idea of drinking this much oil is just turning me off... There has to be a better way... Can you link to your experiment data?

 

 

 

50 ml of oil is an easy drink  1/3 a glass of wine.

 

What experiment data are you referring to?

 

You said you had a hair experiment.

 

http://www.longecity...experiment-log/

[niner]

Whoa! That's got to be alot of oil. What's that going to do to your health? I think we need a better way to attach this stuff to lipids so larger doses can be taken in smaller amounts... The idea of drinking this much oil is just turning me off... There has to be a better way... Can you link to your experiment data?

 

50 ml is only three and a third tablespoons.  Epidemiologic studies of human olive oil consumption seem to be saying that the more you use, the better.  Obviously everything has an amount that is too much, and triglycerides are no exception, but I recall that an analysis of the Spanish cohort of the EPIC study found that two tablespoons a day was better than one.  I don't think they had the data to find the quantity that is "too much", but three isn't a hell of a lot more than two.

[ambivalent]

I would have thought it remained a possibility that Sensei's results are delayed effects of his first mega-dose but obviously is not determinable with Sensei's dosing strategy. I'm not aware of anyone mega-dosing, then breaking for a few months. This is a strategy I'm considering undertaking. I've taken 4 bottles in around 18months - weighted heavily towards the back end of last year, which I believe may have generated fresh eye-brow growth (given eyebrows appear to be very responsive to c60 we really should request before and after photos for those starting out!). I thought of dosing perhaps up to 10 bottles in one month and then nothing for at least a couple of months. Any thoughts on this? I am somewhat more cautious in light of the c60 crystal discussion - I am biochemically illiterate so it is tough to rationalise, but it does appear that I would be well short of the dosng levels present in the rats in which they were formed. Is it likely if there are crystals formed during this high dosage month the crystals would eventaully work its way out of the body if I went cold-turkey on c60?  

 

note: it may not be relevant but I would plan on fasting for a day or two between, say, each pair of doses.

Edited by ambivalent, 25 January 2015 - 08:26 PM.

[sensei]

I would have thought it remained a possibility that Sensei's results are delayed effects of his first mega-dose but obviously is not determinable with Sensei's dosing strategy. I'm not aware of anyone mega-dosing, then breaking for a few months. This is a strategy I'm considering undertaking. I've taken 4 bottles in around 18months - weighted heavily towards the back end of last year, which I believe may have generated fresh eye-brow growth (given eyebrows appear to be very responsive to c60 we really should request before and after photos for those starting out!). I thought of dosing perhaps up to 10 bottles in one month and then nothing for at least a couple of months. Any thoughts on this? I am somewhat more cautious in light of the c60 crystal discussion - I am biochemically illiterate so it is tough to rationalise, but it does appear that I would be well short of the dosng levels present in the rats in which they were formed. Is it likely if there are crystals formed during this high dosage month the crystals would eventaully work its way out of the body if I went cold-turkey on c60?  

 

note: it may not be relevant but I would plan on fasting for a day or two between, say, each pair of doses.

 

 

 The crystal formation was only seen at 4mg/kg -- definitively by body cavity (ip) injection, as far as oral admin at 4mg/kg it is questionable to what degree.

 

7 consecutive days

 

The equivalent for a 180lb human is 322mg per day for 7 days -- that is EIGHT 50ml bottles a day for 7 days.

 

I have once taken 3 bottles to give myself the equivalent 1.7mg/kg of the long term Baati Rats.

[ambivalent]

Currently I have ten standard issue bottles of c60 which I plan on taking over one or possibly two months. After that I will likely take nothing for at least a couple of months. However, there is some concern lingering in my mind regarding the c60 crystals mentioned by Turnbuckle. Although, such a dose is comparatively low compared to the high dose rats, it is still up to x10 the standard dosing regime of those taking it here. If these crystals form will it be a matter of time before they leave the body (when cells are processed), assuming no more c60 is taken? If so how long might that take to occur?

 

Thanks in advance. 

[Chupo]

What I don't get about the concern with the crystals is that the rats still lived longer; maybe despite the crystals or maybe because of them. The crystals may have some biological activity such as inducing autophagy . They might be benign or they may have negative consequences that are outweighed by something else more beneficial in the C60-oo.   It reminds me of people who are afraid of nuts because of their high O6 content and poor O3:O6 ratio when every study I've seen, either epidemiological or controlled, shows that nuts are conducive to longevity. 

[niner]

The crystals showed up in the short-term tox experiments, where all the rats were sacrificed at a young age.  We have no data saying that crystals are ok, and no reason whatsoever to think they are actually good.  I'm not particularly worried about crystal formation since I think they're a non-issue at anything close to "normal" doses, but now that people are talking about megadoses, the crystal problem gives me pause.  Every substance has an amount that is "too much".  We'd rather not find out what it is the hard way.

[ambivalent]

What I don't get about the concern with the crystals is that the rats still lived longer; maybe despite the crystals or maybe because of them. The crystals may have some biological activity such as inducing autophagy . They might be benign or they may have negative consequences that are outweighed by something else more beneficial in the C60-oo.   It reminds me of people who are afraid of nuts because of their high O6 content and poor O3:O6 ratio when every study I've seen, either epidemiological or controlled, shows that nuts are conducive to longevity. 

 

Chupo, well we don't have a litter of studies, as you do with the nuts, here to establish long term effects: we are all rolling the dice somewhat on the hope of big effects. Moreover, one might make the assumption that it is safe to operate as Sensei does at well below the allometric levels of the dosed up rats - but the high dosed rats was a short burst, that may not be true for many on here mega-dosing. Do we know that months or years of mega-dosing won't result in crystals that just keep growing ? These are comparably (to the study) uncharted waters. The Baati study and the nut studies you reference have very few characterics in common to warrant an analogy.

 

Niner, thanks - so I'd perhaps go for 4 or 5 bottles a week is still quite a step up (a bit 1 bottle a month) to what I've done before. If there were crystals forming would it be useful to break for months between doses i.e. likely the body would disperse them? That is a strategy I would prefer as well to mitigate the risk of homeostaasis.

[sensei]

Just an FYI -- Update

 

I have started to consume my home-made batch. It was 225 mg in about 325 ml (I added more to the initial 250 ml to help dissolve)

 

I am taking 2 table spoons (30ml) a day which is approximately 24mg.

 

The C60OO looks red/magenta in the bottle, but brown in the spoon.

 

I am going to make another batch but will crush this time.

[SteveF]

I've been following this for a while because I quit taken C60 because I feared that maybe the c60 was also removing nutrients from the cell I'm trying to put in. So I will see how you all do. Thank you for your all continued experimentation.

 

I was wondering if any animal people out their could get some rats of there own to try these large doses people mention to see what happens.

 

.

[pleb]

That's the normal colour. Your seeing the magenta because of the depth through the bottle. Like looking at the sea from a distance it's blue because of the light but transparent on a spoon or a bucket full.
I get the same magenta crushed or uncrushed and light brown on the spoon. The only difference is the length of time it takes to change to that colour.