3585 replies to this topic

[niner]

Just an update. MCT does not seem like an ideal solvent. I tried a 0.5 g/L concentration. After 4 days of stirring there was a significant amount of undissolved C60. With olive oil in contrast I could not see one spec of undissolved C60 for the same

Thanks, HP. Do you have any sense of how much is on the filter, compared to the amount you started with?

If it turns out that the active agent is the fatty acid adduct, then you could probably get by with far less olive oil by heating the mixture to increase the reaction rate. 250ml a day is a bit much, but 25ml would be pretty easy to take. I don't know how long you'd have to heat it; a short time might suffice, but if you had to heat and stir at the same time, there are combination magnetic stirrer-hotplate units.

[sparkk51]

Sorry, so what supplement is being regarded within this thread? Is it olive oil? What is the general consensus of the supplement? Dosage?

Again, really sorry, I am extremely foggy minded today and am having trouble glossing over.

[Turnbuckle]

Again, really sorry, I am extremely foggy minded today and am having trouble glossing over.

Why sonny, that ain't nothing our special snake oil can't cure!

Edited by Turnbuckle, 21 May 2012 - 09:16 PM.

[HappyPhysicist]

Just an update. MCT does not seem like an ideal solvent. I tried a 0.5 g/L concentration. After 4 days of stirring there was a significant amount of undissolved C60. With olive oil in contrast I could not see one spec of undissolved C60 for the same

Thanks, HP. Do you have any sense of how much is on the filter, compared to the amount you started with?

If it turns out that the active agent is the fatty acid adduct, then you could probably get by with far less olive oil by heating the mixture to increase the reaction rate. 250ml a day is a bit much, but 25ml would be pretty easy to take. I don't know how long you'd have to heat it; a short time might suffice, but if you had to heat and stir at the same time, there are combination magnetic stirrer-hotplate units.

Its hard to say. Perhaps 1/4 is left.

I am growing accustomed to the Olive Oil anyway.

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 21 May 2012 - 09:20 PM.

[Junk Master]

Any more reports? Updates?

[HappyPhysicist]

Well I haven't felt any different since taking C60. I won't be able to tell if it has impacted my disease process for a couple of months.

By the way. I was interviewed for the news program Here and Now about my participation in a DIY trial with Sodium Chlorite. The reported asked me what else I was doing and I mentioned C60 and they posted some of the pictures I provided to them. So we might be getting some national attention on this topic. If you look a the slideshow you will see some of my pictures of C60/olive oil.

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/?p=13514

[niner]

Well I haven't felt any different since taking C60. I won't be able to tell if it has impacted my disease process for a couple of months.

By the way. I was interviewed for the news program Here and Now about my participation in a DIY trial with Sodium Chlorite. The reported asked me what else I was doing and I mentioned C60 and they posted some of the pictures I provided to them. So we might be getting some national attention on this topic. If you look a the slideshow you will see some of my pictures of C60/olive oil.

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/?p=13514

Ben, you are awesome! I think it's great that you guys are running DIY clinical trials. I heard a promo for that show on Friday, and was hoping to catch it, but Here and Now isn't on in my market on Monday. I see that you're featured in the WSJ article too.

[Robert89]

Well I haven't felt any different since taking C60. I won't be able to tell if it has impacted my disease process for a couple of months.

By the way. I was interviewed for the news program Here and Now about my participation in a DIY trial with Sodium Chlorite. The reported asked me what else I was doing and I mentioned C60 and they posted some of the pictures I provided to them. So we might be getting some national attention on this topic. If you look a the slideshow you will see some of my pictures of C60/olive oil.

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/?p=13514

Ben, I was very touched by your article and wanted to offer my support. My father was diagnosed with ALS several years ago and became bed-ridden. After I quit my job and started spending all my time with him, he did improve after 4-5 months, such that he was able to walk again after 8. It was such a joy to see him regain mobility. The Doctors don't always know what they are talking about. You are right in your comment that a lot of them are exhibiting laziness by not engaging in the patient dialogues.

Have you looked into the ALS - Lyme disease connection? There is some talk about treating with anti-biotics that target lyme disease as a way to treat ALS. I wasn't able to try this with my father who developed a complication, but possibly you already know of this or know people who've tried it. Either way, I will keep a look out for further information on ALS.

All the best mate ... stay strong!

[HighDesertWizard]

Just an update. MCT does not seem like an ideal solvent. I tried a 0.5 g/L concentration. After 4 days of stirring there was a significant amount of undissolved C60. With olive oil in contrast I could not see one spec of undissolved C60 for the same concentration.

The ideal solvent might depend on the disease you're treating. If it's general aging, olive oil might be fine, but if it's a particular cell type, then an oil with an affinity for that cell type might be better--i.e., THC for neurons.

Turnbuckle... This is the point precisely. There is this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_oil

From the comments you've made about your experiment with Fullerene/Olive Oil, it appears you've experienced a dramatic change for the better vis-a-vis aerobic endurance. (Is it an increase in VO2max?)

I imagine you've thought about what the change exactly was. I imagine that's why your hypothesis about the mechanism of action makes sense to you: The change you experienced was profound and, perhaps, can only be explained by the hypothesis you've presented...

A question for you... (Please excuse my inability to properly and exactly use the right scientific language in the right way. I'm not a biologist, I'm not even a scientist. Hopefully, my meaning is clear.)

Do you know what specifically had been effected in your bodily system related to endurance before the experiment began that changed so dramatically with the experiment experience?

If you do know, that would help you (and us?) to determine whether there are study references that link that poorly performing "cell type" with Olive Oil. And if we can find that kind of study reference, it would lend weight to an explanation that the Fullerene Solvent served as the means for "guiding" the Fullerenes to the "cell type" that the solvent has a natural affinity for, to the appropriate "receptor" of that cell type..

There has got to be an explanation for why you experienced such a dramatic change. IMHO, it is worthwhile for you (and us?) to explore what that explanation might be in detail. We would learn immensely from it.

Thank you for your willingness to share your knowledge and experience.

[Turnbuckle]

From the comments you've made about your experiment with Fullerene/Olive Oil, it appears you've experienced a dramatic change for the better vis-a-vis aerobic endurance. (Is it an increase in VO2max?)

I imagine you've thought about what the change exactly was. I imagine that's why your hypothesis about the mechanism of action makes sense to you: The change you experienced was profound and, perhaps, can only be explained by the hypothesis you've presented...

A question for you... (Please excuse my inability to properly and exactly use the right scientific language in the right way. I'm not a biologist, I'm not even a scientist. Hopefully, my meaning is clear.)

Do you know what specifically had been effected in your bodily system related to endurance before the experiment began that changed so dramatically with the experiment experience?

I've been taking supplements since 1970 and this one has impressed me more than any other. See my original post on my experience with it: http://www.longecity...353#entry513353

I stand by what I said in that post except for the cholesterol test, was was indeed wrong. My total cholesterol dropped, but it was much less dramatic--closer to a twenty point drop. My feeling is that the effects will parallel that of PQQ: If you saw an effect with that supplement, you will see one here, while if your mitochondria were not sufficiently screwed up to begin with, you might not. And while you might see some effects immediately, others might take much longer as the mitochondrial rejuvenation percolates upward through the cellular and organ levels.

[HappyPhysicist]

Ben, you are awesome! I think it's great that you guys are running DIY clinical trials. I heard a promo for that show on Friday, and was hoping to catch it, but Here and Now isn't on in my market on Monday. I see that you're featured in the WSJ article too.

Thank you! The last thing I intend to do is sit around and take my marching orders from the FDA. I'll be in my grave long before the FDA approves any new treatment for ALS.

I don't want to make this forum about me, and I promise I won't keep posting links about ALS, but here is the WSJ article if you are interested:

http://online.wsj.co...LE_Video_second

The Story with Dick Gordon also interviewed me and a fellow person with ALS (PALS):

http://thestory.org/...052112.mp3/view

The reason I am participating in this forum is that C60 is thought to be a "SOD Mimetic", SOD is an enzyme that clears out the destructive superoxide ROS in your cells (http://en.wikipedia....oxide_dismutase). It is known that in the hereditary form of ALS there is a genetic mutation that limits the bodies ability to produce SOD at least in the motor neurons. There was one study that showed the mice that have this genetic mutation that leads to ALS live longer when given C60.

So the normal route to finding out whether this could be a therapeutic agent for ALS in humans is to do lots more mice studies, then a phase I human study, then phase II, then a phase II study. This whole process will take about 15-20 years given the current FDA regulations.

I have about 3 years to live, but I will be completely paralyzed in about 18 months.

So I say we skip the mice and move right on to human studies. And this is exactly what we are doing. The people with ALS enrolling in this DIY trial are aware of the dangers and are willing to take the risks. We have very little to lose.

What is great about C60 in particular is that we have a group of healthy people taking it also. This will help us tease out any side effects or benefits that are specific to the disease.

Thanks,

Ben

[Allen Walters]

I have 25 gr of the c60 on the way, and am going to have my dr take blood samples before and after taking it. Every time he does blood work on me, he always tells me my enzyme's are messed up. Maybe this will help my liver. I will tell him my planes and see if he wants to take samples of blood over time to see what happens.

[maxwatt]

... I heard a promo for that show on Friday, and was hoping to catch it, but Here and Now isn't on in my market on Monday. I see that you're featured in the WSJ article too.

No excuse if the program is streamed on the internet....

[HappyPhysicist]

Here is the link for the stream:

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/?p=13514

[hav]

Here's an update on my mixing efforts. I let my combo of 100 ml olive oil and 150 mg C60 go for a week in the magnetic mixer and there were no visible signs of C60 particles to be seen. Color was brown. Wanted to see how it centrifuged so I spun it at 4,000 rpm (1,790 g) for an hour. Saw no separation or layers. But after another hour I could see a black sediment at the bottom of the tubes. Gave it a total of 4 hours but saw no increase in the sediment that was visible after 2 hours. The color of the liquid above was slightly lighter but still brown and I was able to pour it off almost completely becasue the black sediment was stuck pretty good to the bottom of the tubes. I next did 2 filtering steps but I probably don't have the right filters. I used low ash qualitative filter paper numbers 202 followed by 203. I could see no sediment on either paper after filtering.

It's been about 3 days since then and the liquid seems to be slowly getting more red. Kind of looked like blood yesterday. I'm thinking it needs at least a total of 2 weeks to get to the right color and that I probably should have just let it stir the whole time. I started a 2nd batch 3 days ago, btw, this time 200 ml olive oil with 150 ml C60 which I assume will fully disolve and leave no sediment after centrifuging.

Howard

[hav]

I've been thinking about other supps I take that may interact with C60. I'm wondering about Chitosan. Would it possibly latch onto the olive oil and interfere with its absorption? On the other hand I'm also wondering if Purslane might contain the type of fatty acids that interact favorably with C60. Any thoughts on these?

Howard

[HighDesertWizard]

Might I ask... From what site are folks buying C60? What quality of product are you using?

[hav]

http://www.longecity...post__p__514597

[HappyPhysicist]

Yesterday, not wanting to waste my MCT/C60 I added about 100 mL of it to my morning milkshake. Well I felt like crap all day long, fatigued and dull headache. I feel fine now. I don't know whether it was the C60 or just the MCT. I suppose I should find out by taking the same amount of MCT again but I'll forgo that experiment.

As has been pointed out MCT are metabolized differently from olive oil for instance. Perhaps the body is not happy when C60 is attempted to be smuggled in via this route.

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 23 May 2012 - 02:34 PM.

[stephen_b]

Yesterday, not wanting to waste my MCT/C60 I added about 100 mL of it to my morning milkshake. Well I felt like crap all day long, fatigued and dull headache. I feel fine now. I don't know whether it was the C60 or just the MCT.

That's almost 7 tablespoons of MCT oil. I can't take more than 2-3 without the phrase 'greased lightning' coming to mind.

[HappyPhysicist]

That is good to know. Must have been just the large amount of MCT.

[zorba990]

Yesterday, not wanting to waste my MCT/C60 I added about 100 mL of it to my morning milkshake. Well I felt like crap all day long, fatigued and dull headache. I feel fine now. I don't know whether it was the C60 or just the MCT.

That's almost 7 tablespoons of MCT oil. I can't take more than 2-3 without the phrase 'greased lightning' coming to mind.

Yup , me too. MCT Oil based brownies...another experiment that I had to dump. Maybe sesame oil would be a palatable alternative.

[Allen Walters]

Has anyone tried applying the mixture to there hair? I just wonder if it would help a receding hair line? One study did say that it caused accelerated hair growth in mice when applied to the skin.

[Turnbuckle]

Has anyone tried applying the mixture to there hair? I just wonder if it would help a receding hair line? One study did say that it caused accelerated hair growth in mice when applied to the skin.

I have, two or three times, and I believe that the bald spot I've had on top for a couple of decades is now partially grown in. I can't say the skin application did it though, as I also took it orally. So it could be one or the other, or both.

I should say that I take everything known to work on thinning hair, so there may be a synergy with one or more of these products.

And another gradual improvement, perhaps even more important: I had become almost intolerant to alcohol over the years, and that has slowly reversed. Now I can drink an entire bottle of wine (or more) without ill effect. I couldn't even do that in my twenties, so it seems I've developed a cast iron liver. I'll bet it's as beautifully purple as those in the rat paper!

Edited by Turnbuckle, 23 May 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[Logic]

And another gradual improvement, perhaps even more important: I had become almost intolerant to alcohol over the years, and that has slowly reversed. Now I can drink an entire bottle of wine (or more) without ill effect. I couldn't even do that in my twenties, so it seems I've developed a cast iron liver. I'll bet it's as beautifully purple as those in the rat paper!

Scientific research at its best!
Seriously: Whats the point in a long life if you'r not enjoying it? Go big Turnbuckle!

[JohnD60]

best.thread.ever
Thank you to numerous posters for much great information.
I ordered 10gr of C60 back when the rat study first surfaced. My thought process being that i wanted to get my C60 before the FDA turned it into a controlled substance and shutdown access. The 10gr have been sitting unopened on my kitchen counter top for more than two weeks now. I ordered a magnetic stirrer a week ago, I should be getting that any day. I plan to buy a glass liter of expensive Oil Olive, open the lid, toss in 600mg of C60 and the teflon coated stir rod, and then put the lid back on. I will leave the liter sitting on the magnetic stirrer for a week, in the dark. Hopefully at the end of the week I will see a pleasant color and no undissolved solids. I don't see any logic in using a centrifuge. Filtering is the one process step I have not figured out yet, it seems probable to me that it would actually do more harm (oxidation) than good. Hopefully that wrinkle will be ironed out in time for dosing. I plan on starting dosing my 78Kg rat at 10ml (6mg C60)/day for a week. Then I will reevaluate the dosing based upon the results. I do not expect that my rat would consume more than about 2gr before stopping.

thoughts: perhaps the Fullerene structure acts as a carrier to transport critical ions, such as Managanese, or charged molecules, into locations in the body that are normally difficult to access. Thought 2: Perhaps the Fullerene structure acts as scaffolding for the construction of Autophagsomes

[HighDesertWizard]

best.thread.ever
Thank you to numerous posters for much great information.
I ordered 10gr of C60 back when the rat study first surfaced.

thoughts: perhaps the Fullerene structure acts as a carrier to transport critical ions, such as Managanese, or charged molecules, into locations in the body that are normally difficult to access. Thought 2: Perhaps the Fullerene structure acts as scaffolding for the construction of Autophagsomes

John...

Here's the thing about this thread. It's the Wonderland hole that Alice crawled into. You know the folks deeper in the hole are batsh*t crazy. (As Mind said early on: "HELLO!!! This is a study with 6 rats!") But the discussion is interesting and the more you listen in, the less crazy it all sounds. And Turnbuckle's frickin' bald spot is fillin' in for gosh sakes...

I grew up camping and I've sat around some campfires. I'm thinking that this can't be more dangerous that ingesting a bit of soot. Right?

Your post was the kick in the pants I needed to buy 10g also. It's done. Not sure when I'll start... Thanks.

It's good to share hypothetical explanation ideas about the study result. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts...

(Explanations that transform the world are the beginning of infinity -- David Deutsch)

About your first thought... Based on a discussion between niner and Turnbuckle, I'd been thinking that the C60s afforded greater (and longer lasting?) affinity to mitochondria. I've also imagined that the study solvent provided "the potion" with an affinity for the cell types that Olive Oil had an affinity for. That's how I've imagined it. I have no idea if this is a "correct" way to imagine it.

But given this imagining... I've been thinking about a mix of oils. Not MCT... I've been saying in my posts that, if the solvent is important at all, then it makes sense to use a 5-Lipoxygenase Inflammatory Cascade Inhibitor. The most profound of these inhibitors have been shown to have (de)methylating effects. (And, in fact, I'm pretty sure I experienced such an effect using very high dose Boswellia a few years ago.)

So that means Omega 3 (EPA/DHA), Boswellia, etc. So how about 25% Olive Oil, 25% EPA/DHA, and fill in the rest. Alternate the potion taken on different dose days.

Here's a question for the more informed science types.... How might the "the potion" be effected if an additional substance was added to it. Say, Curcumin, Boswellia (AKBA), or Resveratrol Powder added to the Olive Oil in addition to the Fullerenes?

Thoughts? Especially from you, Turnbuckle...

[Allen Walters]

Did I read earlier in this thread that cocoa powder was used in preparing the mix for the rats? Could anything in the cocoa have any effect?

[Turnbuckle]

Here's a question for the more informed science types.... How might the "the potion" be effected if an additional substance was added to it. Say, Curcumin, Boswellia (AKBA), or Resveratrol Powder added to the Olive Oil in addition to the Fullerenes?

Thoughts? Especially from you, Turnbuckle...

I take about 30 supplements a day and no doubt there are some interactions with C60, especially PQQ. But I would not attempt to add them to the oil.

[maxwatt]

...

Here's a question for the more informed science types.... How might the "the potion" be effected if an additional substance was added to it. Say, Curcumin, Boswellia (AKBA), or Resveratrol Powder added to the Olive Oil in addition to the Fullerenes?

While some of those substances might be useful as co-supplements, I can't think of any way in which they would help if they were added directly to the mixture. With some of them, you might run into solubility problems, or possibly even a chemical interference of some sort.

As informally reported and a conference on the NIA mouse lifespan studies, combinations of things that were individually beneficial did not have an additive effect. In fact, they gave worse results when combined. I'd be damn cautious without understanding what each supplement is supposed to be doing, especially as we are still guessing what mechanism, if any, is at work. And given the toxicity of C60 if not dissolved, or if dissolved in the wrong thing, I hesitate again. To be assured no clumps of undissolved C60 are in the solution, I don't trust my kitchen chemistry, even though it is better than most. A coffee filter just won't do.