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C60 experiments @ home

buckyball c60 fullerene buckyballs

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#451 HighDesertWizard

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:17 PM

Suppose I lived a few blocks from this place. Is there a downside to using one of their flavored olive oils?

http://www.oldtownoi...ored_olive_oils

Edited by wccaguy, 30 May 2012 - 05:19 PM.

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#452 HappyPhysicist

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:18 PM

jg,

Welcome to the forum! Thanks for taking one for the team by trying the high dose. I would try it but it is so darn time consuming to prepare the C60 according to the rat paper. Even if I skip the centrifuge part it takes the better part of a day to filter just 250 ml of the solution. I think you will find this is the limiting factor.

Thanks,

Ben

Click HERE to rent this advertising spot for C60 HEALTH to support Longecity (this will replace the google ad above).

#453 Allen Walters

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:21 PM

Solaris Chem Inc.

#454 HappyPhysicist

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:21 PM

Also, some of the particles are black and shiny, and the bulk are brownish grey flakes.

That doesn't sound right. I don't think there should be flakes. Mine is a not so fine powder, kind of like the consistency of salt but smaller particles. It has no odor whatsoever. I got mine from SES.

#455 jg42122

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:26 PM

Thanks HappyPhysicist,
I spoke with one of the vendors on here and they are going to have the already made mixture available next week so I plan on purchasing it from them and giving it a go.
Have you experienced and effects from it at all?

#456 Turnbuckle

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:31 PM

Solaris Chem Inc.



Looking at their catalog I didn't see any unmodified C60, but there are a couple of C60 derivatives on page 28.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 30 May 2012 - 05:32 PM.


#457 Allen Walters

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:36 PM

The product code is (SOL5060A)

#458 Turnbuckle

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:50 PM

The product code is (SOL5060A)


On their website they show a SOL5060 that appears to be straight C60. So I wonder what the "A" is for.

#459 HappyPhysicist

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:55 PM

Thanks HappyPhysicist,
I spoke with one of the vendors on here and they are going to have the already made mixture available next week so I plan on purchasing it from them and giving it a go.
Have you experienced and effects from it at all?



I have noticed nothing whatsoever. Given the rate at which I lose muscle mass, I should be able to tell if one of the several things I am trying is slowing my progression in about 3 months and in 6 months for sure. I started taking C60 on May 8th so I have a couple months to go before I can start to guess as to whether anything I am doing is helping. Of course if my progression suddenly stops I won't know which therapy is doing the trick or whether it is a combination of therapies. For instance, I am taking a drug called Dichloroacetate (DCA). One of the researchers who showed this slowed ALS in mice expressed concern that it might lead to an increase in free radicals. If C60 helps sweep up those free radicals there might be a synergistic effect between the two. This is all pie in the sky thinking and extremely unlikely to be the case.
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#460 Allen Walters

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:56 PM

It's on at this link Fullerene Derivatives of C60, C70, C84

#461 Allen Walters

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:07 PM

I wonder if the flakes are something that won't devolve on the oil, when I put the c60 in the oil it was a fine powder, and the flakes are bigger that anything I could see when I put it in. Also I pulled the stopper from the beaker, and the mixture smells the same as the c60.

#462 jg42122

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:13 PM

HappyPhysicist,
Are you taking any type of compounds to help you to gain muscle just a thought. I know there are a lot of things out there that will increase testosterone and muscle mass.
I read your article yesterday in the link you provided you are very courageous. BTY what is that picture in your profile pic? It reminds me of the Metallica song One.

#463 jg42122

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:16 PM

I wonder if the flakes are something that won't devolve on the oil, when I put the c60 in the oil it was a fine powder, and the flakes are bigger that anything I could see when I put it in. Also I pulled the stopper from the beaker, and the mixture smells the same as the c60.


Have you tried contacting the company you got it from and asking them their thoughts on it?

#464 Allen Walters

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:17 PM

Yes, and I,m waiting for a reply.

#465 niner

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:32 PM

I once experienced a dramatic change in my worsening Carpal Tunnel Syndrome symptoms within a week of ingesting very high dose Boswellia (AKBA). I stopped the ~5 days of dosing and the symptoms returned. I then restarted the very high dosing and the symptoms vanished again and after a couple of weeks I stopped again. And the symptoms have never returned.

I have always wondered "what the heck happened?"

Turnbuckle's experience has been interesting to me because of how rapidly his positive health change took place. Even more rapid than mine did.

The open question is: What is the explanation for this kind of positive change this quickly?


In Turnbuckle's case, he had what sounds like a pre-existing mitochondrial dysfunction. It's not surprising to me that this could be rapidly corrected with a redox-active compound (just like his experience with PQQ). With your carpal tunnel syndrome, you might have broken an inflammatory feedback loop; the same thing might have happened with a different anti-inflammatory compound. Typically, if you can get inflammation to calm down, it goes away on its own.

The first hypothesis should be the simplest and most plausible.

I saw an interesting statement the other day:

"Life is the most complex physical phenomenon in the known universe."


To this, I would add the words "by far." There are some people who frequent this site who have spent decades in the life sciences, who have read, reviewed, and authored many papers, who have taken scores of university and graduate level courses, and they STILL only know a speck about the molecular workings of life. This is a field where the more you know, the more you know how little you know.

#466 Mind

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:39 PM

The picture is from the Monty Python "Holy Grail" movie.

HappyPhysicist,
Are you taking any type of compounds to help you to gain muscle just a thought. I know there are a lot of things out there that will increase testosterone and muscle mass.
I read your article yesterday in the link you provided you are very courageous. BTY what is that picture in your profile pic? It reminds me of the Metallica song One.



#467 jg42122

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:40 PM

That's where I have seen it . Thanks

#468 Mind

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:42 PM

This is a great thread, but one that might be more important is this one: http://www.longecity...live-oil-study/

With all of our knowledge and connections, one would think we could get something off the ground pretty quick. Post your thoughts.

#469 HappyPhysicist

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:01 PM

HappyPhysicist,
Are you taking any type of compounds to help you to gain muscle just a thought. I know there are a lot of things out there that will increase testosterone and muscle mass.
I read your article yesterday in the link you provided you are very courageous. BTY what is that picture in your profile pic? It reminds me of the Metallica song One.



My profile picture is the Black Night from Monty Python's The Holy Grail. Its a great analogy of someone trying to hight ALS (ALS being King Arthur).



I have not tried anything to build muscle strength. Muscle loss is directly due to motor neuron loss. The muscles themselves are perfectly healthy and atrophy only from disuse because they get no signals from the brain because the motor neurons die off. Some have tried to bulk muscle mass with for instance steroids with disastrous results.

#470 JohnD60

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:19 PM

Not to be a snit but I believe just about every company is profit driven. ;) That is the general motivation of doing business.

Or as my dad used to say, the three primary motivators of humans are greed, fear and guilt.

how does that in any way conflict with what I said?

#471 cesium

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:39 AM

Canada teen discovers tree pulp has anti-aging benefits (buckyballs & nano-crystalline cellulose)
http://medicalxpress...anti-aging.html

She attributes its "super antioxident properties" to the wood pulp implying the buckyballs were the inactive carrior, but I think she was just sucking up to the Canadian judges who would love to imagine the large Canadian wood pulp industry can now market thier product as the next age-defying fountain of youth. Supposedly nano-crystalline cellulose is big up there.

I suspect she acquired the idea for her science project from her daddy, who just happens to be a chemical engineering prof. Unfortunately very few details reguarding her experiment are given, but from what little there was it sounds like this buckyball compound functions in the way niner envisioned, super antioxident effect with sustained action. Too bad, I was rooting for Turnbuckle's DNA resetting thing, that sounded so cool, lol.

#472 Anthony_Loera

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 01:44 AM

Buckyballs the inactive carrier?. Yeah right... that teen is funny.

:p

A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 31 May 2012 - 01:45 AM.

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#473 Turnbuckle

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 02:09 AM

"...nano-crystalline cellulose..."

Whenever you put the word "nano" in front of anything, it automatically takes on magical powers. Looks like this girl will start a whole new supplement business all by herself.

#474 DoomAndGloom

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 02:19 AM

Speaking of teens and science projects... I am 17 and I am taking two periods of science research this coming year, which simply means I am required to create and complete a paper on a topic of my choosing. I've been watching this thread, and this forum in general, for some time now in an effort to think of a project idea. I haven't had much luck. Perhaps some of you could aid me in thinking up some ideas, or point me to a place where I can post a discussion thread? I wasn't quite sure where would be appropriate.

I am wholeheartedly interested in life extension, or at least improvement of human life in other ways.

Part of the reason why I haven't thought of any (valid) ideas is because of a restriction we have: we cannot do any in vivo testing at all and even psychological testing is very confined to the point of uselessness.

Otherwise, I am able to choose almost any project and am able to get funding up to a few thousand dollars. We have access to our own lab and I would be able to contact other labs in the state of Florida, if necessary.

Anyway, any ideas?

Edited by DoomAndGloom, 31 May 2012 - 02:22 AM.


#475 Allen Walters

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 05:57 AM

This is the reply I got:
You are right, C60 itself does not smell. To get C60 as pure as possible, it goes through a process that requires organic solvents for the separation. Traces of this solvent, ortho-dichlorobenzene, may stay behind to a 0.01% extend (hence the light smell). The material is precipitated to its amorphous form (brown) into alcohol. At that point, most organic solvent is removed. As all the solvents are electronic grades and in very low concentration, it is not an issue for the electronic applications. C60 is also not used as is, as it is converted to a more soluble, more electronically suitable material to go in solar cells (PC60BMs for ex.).

As the demand is increasing for C60 to be used in other applications than electronic devices, we recently developed a different treatment process, where this organic solvent is not present. The resulting material is slightly different in appearance as it is a more crystalline material (grey to black powder); no smells. Although a bit more expensive than the regular grade (still 99.5%+), it may be more suitable for your application. You let me know if it is the case.

If you want, you can send me back this sample (regular mail is fine) and we will send you the other grade for the same price for you to try if it is more what you are looking for. I will even add 5 more grams for your trouble and shipping cost. I can ship the other grade to you by friday, after you confirmed that this is the way you want to go.

Sorry for the confusion. I hope this will help you out well.

Best regards,

Pierre





Pierre-Louis Brunner M.Sc.
President

Solaris Chem Inc.
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#476 hav

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:55 PM

Canada teen discovers tree pulp has anti-aging benefits (buckyballs & nano-crystalline cellulose)
http://medicalxpress...anti-aging.html

She attributes its "super antioxident properties" to the wood pulp implying the buckyballs were the inactive carrior, but I think she was just sucking up to the Canadian judges who would love to imagine the large Canadian wood pulp industry can now market thier product as the next age-defying fountain of youth. Supposedly nano-crystalline cellulose is big up there.

I suspect she acquired the idea for her science project from her daddy, who just happens to be a chemical engineering prof. Unfortunately very few details reguarding her experiment are given, but from what little there was it sounds like this buckyball compound functions in the way niner envisioned, super antioxident effect with sustained action. Too bad, I was rooting for Turnbuckle's DNA resetting thing, that sounded so cool, lol.


Apparently the teen worked under the guidance of Dr. Zhaoling Yao of the University of Waterloo. For a clue into the NCC/C60 material that was probably used, here's an abstract of a paper submitted for publication by Dr. Yao a year ago:

Water-soluble fullerene containing polymers comprising of poly(2-(dimethylamino) ethyl methacrylate)-fullerene (PDMAEMA-C60) with targeting moieties, poly(oligo(ethylene glycol) methyl ether methacrylate)-C60 (POEGMA-C60), nanocrystalline cellulose-fullerene (NCC-C60) and NCC-C60-POEGMA were synthesized and their solution properties were investigated. PDMAEMA-C60 with galactose targeting moiety was prepared by atom transfer radical polymerization (ATRP) and atom transfer radical addition (ATRA) processes. The self-assembly of galactose functionalized PDMAEMA-C60 structure in aqueous solutions was investigated using dynamic light scattering (DLS) at different pHs. A smaller hydrodynamic radius (Rh) was observed at pH 10 than at pH 3 due to electrostatic repulsion at low pH values. In addition, free PDMAEMA chains induced the demicellization of self-assembled nanostructures caused by the formation of charge transfer complex between PDMAEMA and C60. A well-defined poly(di(ethylene glycol) methyl ether methacrylate–stat-oligo(ethylene glycol) methyl ether methacrylate)-block-poly(di(ethylene glycol) methyl ether methacrylate ((PMEO2MA-stat-POEGMA300)-b-PMEO2) was successfully synthesized at room temperature via a two-step ATRP process. The block copolymer exhibited two thermal transitions at ~ 30 and 45 oC, which was believed to be associated with the formation of micelles and larger aggregates. The Rh of the aggregates increased from 47 to 90 nm, the aggregation number increased from 76 to ~9800 and Rg/Rh increased from 0.75 to 1.2 within the temperature range of 34 to 45oC. Well-defined statistical (PMEO2MA-stat-POEGMA300)-C60 was synthesized via ATRP and ATRA. The lower critical solution temperature (LCST) of (PMEO2MA-stat-POEGMA300)-C60 increased with methanol content in water, exhibiting lower LCSTs than PMEO2MA-stat-POEGMA300 for all methanol/water compositions. Higher critical micelle concentration (CMC) and larger spherical micelles were observed for (PMEO2MA-stat-POEGMA300)-C60 with increasing methanol content. The Rh of the micelles remained constant at temperature below the LCST and increased dramatically at temperature greater than the LCST, and (Rg/Rh) increased from ~ 0.75 to ~ 1.0. Nanocrystalline cellulose (NCC) was modified with water-soluble C60-(β-cyclodextrin) and (PMEO2MA-stat-POEGMA300)-C60) through a radical coupling reaction. NCC-C60-(PMEO2MA-stat-POEGMA300) possessed thermal responsive behavior in water and ~3.5 oC hysteresis associated with the heating/cooling cycles. No observable damage to NCC occurred during the radical coupling reaction as determined by TEM. NCC-C60-(β-cyclodextrin) possessed a similar thermal degradation behavior as NCC except it possessed a broader temperature range. Both NCC-fullerene systems demonstrated a radical scavenging activity when screened with the 2,2-diphenyl-1-picrylhydrazyl (DPPH). In addition, the drug loading and delivery using PDMAEMA-C60 with targeting moieties was explored. Two model drugs, namely fluorescein and pyrene were employed to evaluate the location of drug in the self-assembled structure of PDMAEMA-C60. It was found that the hydrophobic drugs were partitioned between the PDMAEMA shells and the hydrophobic fullerene cores. The drug delivery profiles indicated that PDMAEMA-C60 is an efficient drug carrier, however, it was cytotoxic to cells. The gene transfection efficacy of PDMAEMA-C60 to different cell lines was investigated and the results demonstrated that PDMAEMA-C60 exhibited good gene transfection performance. However, the targeting selectivity to liver cells cannot be determined in both cases. This study demonstrates that nanostructures of stimuli-responsive fullerene polymers can be controlled and manipulated by changing the external environments. Several potential applications, such as in drug and gene delivery, and free radical scavenging can be further explored.


I notice that Dr Yao describes the NCC to C60 bonding as a radical coupling reaction and that he believes the PDMAE form to be cytotoxic. Looks like his research is focused on using these materials as a delivery system for drugs.

Howard

Edited by hav, 31 May 2012 - 01:04 PM.

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#477 maxwatt

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 01:03 PM

Suppose I lived a few blocks from this place. Is there a downside to using one of their flavored olive oils?

http://www.oldtownoi...ored_olive_oils

I am very conservative, and would not use a flavored oil. It's more than just an antipathy to the marketing gimmickry, but the fact that lesser quality oils are likely to be used. (If you want a flavored oil, put a sprig of rosemary, oregano or whatever in the bottle with it.)

Michael knows a hell of a lot about olive oil, I have learned much from him, and I've kind of been hoping he will chime in. Olive oil goes rancid quite easily and is light sensitive. Some bottlers use a colored bottle (they all should), but keeping sealed against air in a dark cupboard will do. It needn't be refrigerated, but if you are going to keep more than a few weeks, freezing might not be a bad idea for long term storage.

There are beneficial polyphenols in (some) olive oils, which I believe contribute to health and may be life-extending. Some research supports this. But the polyphenol content of olive oils varies immensely, not all have high amounts. Popular brands such as Bertolli and Berio are not necessarily reliable. There has come to be much counterfeiting of extra-virgin oil, with cheap chemically extracted oils being mixed in, or even other oils, such as hazelnut oil. There are places such as Fairway in New York, with a wide selection and a tasting bar, but most of us do not know what to look for, and many confuse the rich buttery flavor of rancid oil with quality. Even then, I doubt that tasting alone will detect polyphenol content. Some bottlers are beginning to test for polyphenol content, but the European Union has yet to set a standard so that we can compare one oil to another easily.

Also, oils are harvested at about the same time, after which you are buying old stock that was stored under indeterminate conditions. It may still be nearly as good as the day it was pressed, or it could have been exposed to excess heat and light. A bottle covered with dust is a bad sign, obviously. But the southern hemisphere is 180 degrees out of phase, so you can get oil less than 6 months from pressing year-round. The southern hemisphere oils are coming to market in the next few weeks. Look for Chile and Australian Extra Virgin. Picual varieties in general have more polyphenols.

A company I trust with a web store is Amphora http://www.amphoranueva.com/ . , Look for , Look for Chilean Picual Ultra, a "single variety, estate produced, early harvest, UP (certified ultra premium).... Oils produced in the beginning portion of the season are more nutritious, contain more polyphenols, are more flavorfull, (also retain their original flavor longer), and enjoy a much longer shelf life in general". The price with shipping should be competitive to premium oils purchased locally, without the uncertainty if you do not know the dealer.

If the C60 does not affect the flavor, then eat more salads, and use it instead of butter on bread. But don't cook with such high quality oils.

I am still not prepared to mix C60 myself though. In the meantime, olive oil will have to suffice.

Edited by maxwatt, 31 May 2012 - 01:06 PM.

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#478 zorba990

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:21 PM

Speaking of teens and science projects... I am 17 and I am taking two periods of science research this coming year, which simply means I am required to create and complete a paper on a topic of my choosing. I've been watching this thread, and this forum in general, for some time now in an effort to think of a project idea. I haven't had much luck. Perhaps some of you could aid me in thinking up some ideas, or point me to a place where I can post a discussion thread? I wasn't quite sure where would be appropriate.

I am wholeheartedly interested in life extension, or at least improvement of human life in other ways.

Part of the reason why I haven't thought of any (valid) ideas is because of a restriction we have: we cannot do any in vivo testing at all and even psychological testing is very confined to the point of uselessness.

Otherwise, I am able to choose almost any project and am able to get funding up to a few thousand dollars. We have access to our own lab and I would be able to contact other labs in the state of Florida, if necessary.

Anyway, any ideas?


If you want to do a project on C60 then do something explaining the optical effect on the olive oil solution, and the particle wave duality of C60.
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#479 HighDesertWizard

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:43 PM

Otherwise, I am able to choose almost any project and am able to get funding up to a few thousand dollars. We have access to our own lab and I would be able to contact other labs in the state of Florida, if necessary.

Anyway, any ideas?


Here's an idea that niner had and posted at the other thread talking about Replicating this Study... Doing this experiment would move us forward...

It would be good to nail down exactly what you get when you mix C60 with olive oil. Is it C60 dissolved in oil, a reaction product in which C60 is covalently bound to a long chain fatty acid ester, or some mixture of these? This is just an analytical chemistry problem, and it probably wouldn't take long in the appropriate lab.


I don't have any idea about the cost of doing this. Perhaps, because you're doing this as a High School project, you could talk a first rate lab into doing it with/for you at a significantly reduced cost. Longecity members would be happy to assist you in defining the experiment objectives and methods in more detail. We could help you to evaluate potential labs to do the work. We would have an interest in helping you to ensure a high quality study product result.

And I'm thinkin' that your referencing this Buckyball study as one you're following up on and making a next step non-trivial contribution to advancing the science of... Well, that can't hurt you when your project would be evaluated for a grade or an award. And adding the fact that you followed up on the Buckyball study with this kind of study effort would look great on college applications and your resume for years to come.

in all our work lives, our ability to work with other people is recognized as a key skill. If this is a project you'd like to investigate further, let's establish a separate forum thread about your project so that the inevitable discussion of important details gets more focused attention. That way, also, you'll be able to open and print to PDF the complete discussion of your project at Longecity as a single discussion to include with your project deliverable. It would demonstrate your willingness and ability to take on team oriented work activity.

:)

Edited by wccaguy, 31 May 2012 - 05:03 PM.


#480 Krell

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:28 PM

It is a conundrum, an enigma wrapped in a buckyball.

Perhaps only a piece of a polyphenol gets attached to a fullerene molecule, and transported thusly? Hard to swallow, but there are patents out there for using fullerenes to transport substances in this manner. C60 also forms macro-structures of several bucky-balls, in a crystal-like arrangement even in acqueous solutions, and these can trap other, somewhat larger molecules. The possibilities are many, each seemingly equally implausible.

I would not have suggested it but for Michael's enthusiasm for EVOO polyphenols. and their possible life-enhancing effects. They are poorly understood, we don't know what molecules are present, much less which of them might be responsible for the phenomenon we are investigating. But EVOO polypheneols do inhibit HER-2, killing cancer cells, they inhibit inflammation and tyrosine kinase also. That the oil-only rodents also exhibited an unusual increase in lifespan lends weight to the hypothesis. I don't insist the hypothesis is true, but think it quite possible than we are seeing an interaction between the olive oil and the fullerene.

In the meantime, I would suggest using the best quality, polyphenol-rich olive oil you can find if you want to play with fullerenes.

Or it is possible and even likely that the results are not reproducible.


Now you got me worried that my Bertolli Extra Light OO is not up to snuff.

So I looked around for an OO that actually maximizes and advertises its polyphenols.

Here is the best that I found
https://www.apollool....com/health.php

Does anyone know of a higher polyphenol OO?





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