3585 replies to this topic

[niner]

Yeah, what Turnbuckle said. I just wanted to add that I regularly freeze olive oil, and it turns white like he reported. It also seems to outgas as it warms up, letting off bubbles of what I presume was dissolved or trapped air. I was having a problem with the stopper popping off during this process, so I've taken to thawing it with the top ajar. Once everything comes up to room temperature, everything is fine and it tastes very fresh. Just warm it up and swirl or stir it a little and everything should be ok. Olive oil with C60 in it should be pretty robust to oxidation problems, given the profound antioxidant nature of C60. If you store it somewhere dark and reasonably cool, it should last a long time. AgeVivo is using some of Baati's original C60-oo, as I understand it, which must be five or six years old now. I don't know how Baati stored it. If you've brewed your own, you probably have a lot, in which case you might want to keep enough for several months, and freeze the rest. If you bought a small bottle, you will probably use it quickly enough that it doesn't matter much how you store it.

[sanjosegeek]

I've read through all of the stuff on the c60 forum, but I have two stupid questions that I do not see a definitive answer for here:

Why are people worried about cluping?

And:

Why not just take the c60 in oil after waiting a hour or two, a day or two, or 6 months or a year? Why two weeks?

Please pardon me for my ignorance.

[Hebbeh]

I've read through all of the stuff on the c60 forum, but I have two stupid questions that I do not see a definitive answer for here:

Why are people worried about cluping?

And:

Why not just take the c60 in oil after waiting a hour or two, a day or two, or 6 months or a year? Why two weeks?

Please pardon me for my ignorance.

I assume you mean clumping. The C60 needs to dissolve into solution so that it can be absorbed into the mitochondria membrane where it is believed to do its magic. Large clumps or particles are unlikely to make it past the GI tract, let alone pass through the cell membrane and into the mito membrane. If you are not worried about clumps, then there is no need for oil, as oil is just the solvent and vehicle Although it is theorized that when the C60 dissolves in the EVOO, it makes new compounds by forming adducts with the EVOO polyphenols (thus why you want to use EVOO rather than corn oil). There is evidence that clumps pass through the GI tract.

One of the commercial manufacturers of C60/EVOO claimed from their experiments, it took 2 weeks of constant stirring to reach saturation of 0.9mg/ml. From what I can remember, I believe the original Baati experiment stirred for 2 weeks also?

[Turnbuckle]

One of the commercial manufacturers of C60/EVOO claimed from their experiments, it took 2 weeks of constant stirring to reach saturation of 0.9mg/ml. From what I can remember, I believe the original Baati experiment stirred for 2 weeks also?

The original experiment was supersaturated, I believe, so no amount of stirring would have put it all in solution. I shoot for .5 mg/ml and stir for 3 days, and very little is left on the filter.

(That's for 99.5% C60, magnetically stirred.)

[niner]

If you are not worried about clumps, then there is no need for oil, as oil is just the solvent and vehicle Although it is theorized that when the C60 dissolves in the EVOO, it makes new compounds by forming adducts with the EVOO polyphenols (thus why you want to use EVOO rather than corn oil). There is evidence that clumps pass through the GI tract.

C60 forms compounds in vegetable oils in general, not just olive oil. That's why you see the color change from light purple to dark red; the substituted C60s have a different absorption spectrum in the visible, compared to pristine C60. The adducts are thought to be the long chain fatty acids from the vegetable oils, reacting through any of several mechanisms. A Diehls-Alder reaction, where C60 attaches to a diene, may be the most facile. (C60 is known to be a dienophile) If so, this might explain how quickly the color change was seen in corn oil compared to olive oil, since it's higher in PUFAs. I don't know of any evidence that C60 reacts with polyphenols, and can't think of any obvious mechanisms for that to work.

[mikey]

Mikey, I believe hip bone marrow stem cell treatments may have more healing potential than prolozone

But one aspect favors Prolozone.

If I have one PL injection or five in a visit my doctor charges $150.

I needed three injections spaced 10 days apart to make my left knee free from pain, stable and strong and able to run again. $450

Stem cell injections generally run in the thousands.

[smithx]

Why are people worried about cluping?

Some studies have indicated that clumps of C60 are highly toxic.

[sanjosegeek]

If you are not worried about clumps, then there is no need for oil, as oil is just the solvent and vehicle Although it is theorized that when the C60 dissolves in the EVOO, it makes new compounds by forming adducts with the EVOO polyphenols (thus why you want to use EVOO rather than corn oil). There is evidence that clumps pass through the GI tract.

C60 forms compounds in vegetable oils in general, not just olive oil. That's why you see the color change from light purple to dark red; the substituted C60s have a different absorption spectrum in the visible, compared to pristine C60. The adducts are thought to be the long chain fatty acids from the vegetable oils, reacting through any of several mechanisms. A Diehls-Alder reaction, where C60 attaches to a diene, may be the most facile. (C60 is known to be a dienophile) If so, this might explain how quickly the color change was seen in corn oil compared to olive oil, since it's higher in PUFAs. I don't know of any evidence that C60 reacts with polyphenols, and can't think of any obvious mechanisms for that to work.

I was thinking along the lines of dietary fat being necessary for the absorption of certian vitamins and such, and that perhaps it was simply that fat has to be present for c60 to absorb properly. When I think of places tiny amounts of c60 are likely to get into our diets naturally, burnt toast, charred meat from the grill, overfried foods... these all contain a fair bit of fat.

This also brings up the thought that humans wouldent get a ton of dietary c60 naturally, so there may be a mechanism somewhere in out genetic programming that says "hey! use this! we dont get it often!"

And lastly, why would a Diehls-Alder reaction take weeks?

Why are people worried about cluping?

Some studies have indicated that clumps of C60 are highly toxic.

That was a crumb of food making my "M" key stick. Fairly embarrasing.

I thought the studies with the clumps were called into question due to solvents or dosage ambiguities?

[mikey]

I may have missed it, but why has no one looked at liposomal C60?

A liposomal version would have greatly enhanced intracellular delivery with greatly reduced volume, solving the major problems with C60oo.

There are several studies investigating liposomal fullerenes, some using toxins (acetonitrile, toluene) to solublize - where the toxins are removed before the end product and other, more attractive versions that use non-toxic solvents, like squalene from shark liver or olive oil and phosphatidylcholine. Because the fullerenes are coated in a liposomal bilayer when they encounter cells, which are also encapsulated in a liposomal bilayer, they match up so that delivery into the cell is efficient.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19371265
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19482914

Liposomal nutrients can be made at home, using a pro ultrasonic jewelry cleaner (cost ~$175) - here's one method - http://www.michaelmo...eLiposomalC.pdf

Edited by mikey, 05 September 2012 - 03:12 AM.

[niner]

I may have missed it, but why has no one looked at liposomal C60.A liposomal version should have greatly enhanced intracellular delivery with greatly reduced volume required.

The bioavailability of the C60-oo adduct doesn't seem to be a problem when it's delivered orally in olive oil. Might as well go with something that works and is easy. If you just drink the olive oil solution, it will be converted into a liposome in the body anyway. These are called chylomicrons; they are part of the normal route for lipid digestion.

[niner]

I was thinking along the lines of dietary fat being necessary for the absorption of certian vitamins and such, and that perhaps it was simply that fat has to be present for c60 to absorb properly. When I think of places tiny amounts of c60 are likely to get into our diets naturally, burnt toast, charred meat from the grill, overfried foods... these all contain a fair bit of fat.

This also brings up the thought that humans wouldent get a ton of dietary c60 naturally, so there may be a mechanism somewhere in out genetic programming that says "hey! use this! we dont get it often!"

And lastly, why would a Diehls-Alder reaction take weeks?

If you were to purify the C60-oo adducts, removing them from the olive oil, then you would probably need to take them with a lot of fat, because you have to get them re-dissolved, which isn't necessarily easy. C60 probably has been in our diet in exceedingly small quantities since the day we discovered fire. It takes a pretty extreme environment to create C60, like a flame or a carbon arc. I doubt you'd find it in toast or fried food, but there's probably some in barbeque. One of the biggest sources in our "diet" might be... cigarettes. Apparently not "enough", though.

I thought the studies with the clumps were called into question due to solvents or dosage ambiguities?

Yeah, that was a pretty famous case of one lab's error sending the whole field off on an erroneous tangent. They're still trying to get that one back on track. There are some issues with hydroxylated clusters in aqueous solutions, but we are in oil. There are photo-induced radicals in vitro, but in vivo the danger of clusters seems small.

[Logic]

I may have missed it, but why has no one looked at liposomal C60?

A liposomal version would have greatly enhanced intracellular delivery with greatly reduced volume, solving the major problems with C60oo.

There are several studies investigating liposomal fullerenes, some using toxins (acetonitrile, toluene) to solublize - where the toxins are removed before the end product and other, more attractive versions that use non-toxic solvents, like squalene from shark liver or olive oil and phosphatidylcholine. Because the fullerenes are coated in a liposomal bilayer when they encounter cells, which are also encapsulated in a liposomal bilayer, they match up so that delivery into the cell is efficient.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19371265
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19482914

Liposomal nutrients can be made at home, using a pro ultrasonic jewelry cleaner (cost ~$175) - here's one method - http://www.michaelmo...eLiposomalC.pdf

Info on sonicating C60 here Mikey.
Also a link to 69 papers on C60

http://www.longecity...fullerene-hyfn/

[HHM]

Idon't really see the benefit of liposomal c60 against monodispersed c60 in oo. Nor do I see how to make it. The thing you want to encapsulate should be disolved in a non-toxic non lipid solvent

[mikey]

I'm using liposomal nutrients, like vitamin C, glutathione, CoQ10 and resveratrol. Delivery into cells is radically increased when these nutrients are put in liposomes.

I thought the same might happen with C60 incorporated in liposomes consisting of lecithin and soy sterols, but this study http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19482914 showed that the liposome-fullerene contained only 0.3% C60, so there's no advantage in reducing volume.

[Izan]

so i also ordered a bottle from sarah vaughter. she shipped this to me on sep 2nd and i received it on the 5th!! great service!

i suffer from asthma since i was a little boy ( i am 30 years old now), but what the heck is in this bottle? the first day i took 4.5 mg's in total and i decided to go for a walk to my parent's house, which is approx. 350 metres from my house. normally i am always happy when i arrive, so i don't have to walk any further. but wednesday i was so full of energy, it was insane. like my legs and brain were connected once again, the same feeling when you had when you were a child, you know, full of energy. i just wanted to walk and walk and also my mind was clearer. what the hell is this? i took every supplement known to man, even MB etc etc, but nothing comes close to this. c60 blows them all out of the water. yesterday same effects, but when i took a dose before sleep, i had a hard time falling asleep. i don't need my inhaler since yesterday, so mayby this is a cure for asthma? it's way to soon i know, but i am so excited right now. the only ''negative'' aspect thus far, i get sweaty hands and feet right after dosing.

i think eldery people, above 55 and people who suffer from chronic disease, will experience dramatic results very quickly. it will also help people who are physically as well as mentally at their peaks, but you will notice not much. and some people are making this by themselves and claiming that they don't feel anything. you are either 100 % healty and fit and/or you are not making this stuff the right way, look into that.

just took another dose of 3 mgs, and once again, sweaty hands and feet...

what if eldery people took c60, hgh and cerebrolysin for a vast amount of time? just crazy. i'll keep you all updated.

-edit-; sorry, forgot to mention other effects. this c60 makes me very thirsty and especially very hungry. same hunger feeling when i hit puberty!

Edited by izan82, 07 September 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[YodaTW]

I also got mine from Sarah Vaughter and I take 1.5 mgs twice a day, morning and night to keep a 12 hour balance in my system. I have noticed no side effects so far. I am 100% health and in my 40s. I bought because I do not have the skills to correctly mix my own, however it does seem more cost effective. I thought I noticed a increase in energy drive making me exercise more, however could be a placebo effect. I have taken the medicine for 30 days now and can say that there has been no noticeable side effects.

On a side note, it does appear the both the C60 and extra virgin olive oil work to gather to extend the rats lives. It looks to me like the C60 acts as transport capsule for the oil and takes it to places that normal oral intake would not. This C60 capsule may slowly disperse the oil over months or years. Just my hypothesis.

[Junk Master]

Good to see you post, YodaTw. I'm a bit surprised this forum hasn't gained as much popularity as I thought it would.

There's no doubt in my mind c60/OO is a much more effective than PQQ or CQ10 and the markets for those supplements are immense.

[orion602]

Good to see you post, YodaTw. I'm a bit surprised this forum hasn't gained as much popularity as I thought it would.

There's no doubt in my mind c60/OO is a much more effective than PQQ or CQ10 and the markets for those supplements are immense.

I don't think its so bad. This thread alone has over 119,000 views and 1200+ replies in just 4-5 months. More popular than resveratrol when it was 'new hot thing'.
Personaly, I didn't start resveratrol but im determined to start feeding my 62kg semi CRed rat some c60EVOO soon , and maybe do some experiments with different vegetable oils.. (within couple of months -I just need to find some reliable c60 supplier in eu and save some money). I guess there are many more people taking c60 than it seems , only they are not posting their experience here (not so good because positive results may be presented more frequently on the forum).

During last 2 weeks, I have read through all threads in c60 section, only this one will take some time (on page 5 currently) I wonder if there is any general idea about how many people here were/are taking c60? from what i read i gues about 50+. but lets dont forget there are usualy only about 20-30 members active on this forum during any 15 minute interval, but 1000-1300 guests - many internet searches lead to this forum.
So I encourage all lurkers on C60 to register and post their results here positive and negative as well - dont forget that no efect and negative effects are very important in science and should not be underrepresented over positives.

Edited by orion602, 08 September 2012 - 08:27 AM.

[hav]

... It looks to me like the C60 acts as transport capsule for the oil and takes it to places that normal oral intake would not. This C60 capsule may slowly disperse the oil over months or years. Just my hypothesis.

I thought the same thing myself, at first. However, olive oil molecules seem to do pretty well getting around on their own. And niner pointed out earlier in this thread that because of the relative sizes and barrier potentials that it was impossible for any molecules found in olive oil to penetrate the c60 sphere. I think I agree with him. Although I don't think its necessarily impossible. One way I could see it happening might be evanescent wave effects as seen in acoustics. But I think I'm reaching a little seeing as how these effects in fluids have only been shown in BEC and would be unlikely in olive oil stirred at room temperature. But maybe some sort of low-energy shared-charge revolving door effect.

In any event, here's a related theory of how fullerenes dissolve in water:

http://www.lsbu.ac.u...er/buckmin.html

Dr. Martin Chaplin postulates water molecules forming the cage around the fullerene. Seems more likely.

Howard

[Andey]

During last 2 weeks, I have read through all threads in c60 section, only this one will take some time (on page 5 currently) I wonder if there is any general idea about how many people here were/are taking c60? from what i read i gues about 50+. but lets dont forget there are usualy only about 20-30 members active on this forum during any 15 minute interval, but 1000-1300 guests - many internet searches lead to this forum.
So I encourage all lurkers on C60 to register and post their results here positive and negative as well - dont forget that no efect and negative effects are very important in science and should not be underrepresented over positives.

Hi everybody )
My first bottles of SV C60 are on the way. Can you suggest some blood tests (cheap and simple )) that I can make before and after to make some measurable difference ?

[Mind]

Hi everybody )
My first bottles of SV C60 are on the way. Can you suggest some blood tests (cheap and simple )) that I can make before and after to make some measurable difference ?

OMG! Finally we have a winner (that is, if there was a huge Longecity prize to give away, you would definitely get it....maybe we can send you some thank you points). You are the first person (that I have seen in this forum) who is diligent enough to get objective human data on C60. Please get some sort-of before and after tests, even the most simple blood test could show something interesting. Objective data is sorely needed. Thanks for taking this extra step, and be sure to let us know how things work out.

[orion602]

Hi everybody )
My first bottles of SV C60 are on the way. Can you suggest some blood tests (cheap and simple )) that I can make before and after to make some measurable difference ?

hello Andey and welcome to the forum

Where did you ordered your c60 bottles? I'm thinking about ordering 1g of 99.9% pure c60 from Germany (link posted by mait in other thread) and make my own solution.
I don't know if i will manage to get some blood test as well (perhaps old trick - visiting my doctor with "some non-specific health problems" - it works sometimes and he sends me to lab for blood tests and the bill goes to State Insurance System. Other option would be some commercial lab. I have no idea about options in Ukraine though.
someone mentioned cholesterol level before and after c60 maybe this would be one to have tested

@Mind:> If someone could suggests list of most important things good to have tested for C60EVOO in human rats experiment, I'll think about having some more comprehensive blood tests done.(will pick only the ones i can afford atm) i agree that its important to know whats actualy happening in the body.

--
Just looking at prices for commercial tests i can get in my area: lipides are quite cheap [1-3 dollars, except homocystein and apoliporoteins; glucose and minerals are very cheap as well [im actualy surprised how much can be tested for little money]. I guess in Ukraine it will be even cheaper

[Turnbuckle]

@Mind:> If someone could suggests list of most important things good to have tested for C60EVOO in human rats experiment, I'll think about having some more comprehensive blood tests done.(will pick only the ones i can afford atm) i agree that its important to know whats actualy happening in the body.

I too would be interested to know what Mind thinks might change. My own blood tests showed no change beyond the usual variation in the basics: C-total, HDL, LDL, sugar, Tri-G, PSA.

C-total had dropped after I began but soon drifted back to where it was initially.

[Mind]

@Mind:> If someone could suggests list of most important things good to have tested for C60EVOO in human rats experiment, I'll think about having some more comprehensive blood tests done.(will pick only the ones i can afford atm) i agree that its important to know whats actualy happening in the body.

I too would be interested to know what Mind thinks might change. My own blood tests showed no change beyond the usual variation in the basics: C-total, HDL, LDL, sugar, Tri-G, PSA.

C-total had dropped after I began but soon drifted back to where it was initially.

Sorry, but I don't have a clue what I expect to change, but there should be something of note if C60 is an all powerful anti-aging supplement. If nothing is detectable through objective testing, then I would be more skeptical. Thanks for sharing your test results Turnbuckle.

[hav]

Possible c60 testing was discussed last month here. Mentioned were glutathione ration, the ratio of oxidized to reduced glutathione, and malondialdehyde levels. Mikey mentioned he might get before and 1 year after Biophysical 250. I expect Anthony might be doing the same since Revgenetics has a deal going with them. Teleomere assay was also mentioned somewhere. Unfortunately, none of these are simple or cheap.

Howard

[Turnbuckle]

One home test you can do to detect changes in effective skin age is the pinch test--

1. Pinch the skin on the back of your hand and hold for five seconds.
2. Release, and count how long it takes for the skin to flatten out.

How to score:
Time (seconds)
1-2 (under 30)
3-4 (30-44)
5-9 (45-50)
10-15 (60)
35-55 (70)

For me (>60 years old), the procedure gives zero seconds. I didn't test it before, but it wasn't much worse than that several years ago.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 10 September 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[niner]

Possible c60 testing was discussed last month here. Mentioned were glutathione ration, the ratio of oxidized to reduced glutathione, and malondialdehyde levels. Mikey mentioned he might get before and 1 year after Biophysical 250. I expect Anthony might be doing the same since Revgenetics has a deal going with them. Teleomere assay was also mentioned somewhere. Unfortunately, none of these are simple or cheap.

Thanks for finding that, Howard. (I just edited that post and fixed my typo- should be glutathione ratio, not ration). I've been looking for some tests that would be appropriate, and that people can actually find. There are a lot of things that are done in research settings, but that are hard to find on the street. One very promising test is the TBARS (thiobarbituric acid reacting substances) test. It's generally considered as a test of lipid oxidation. I found at least one lab that does it. No idea about cost. It should more or less supersede the MDA level.

Two tests that are widely available and MIGHT be useful are HbA1C (glycated hemoglobin) and uric acid levels.

Other tests that are more obscure, but perhaps more directly related to redox status are:

catalase
protein carbonyls
red blood cell glutathione
plasma glutathione peroxidase

Those would probably be hard to find.

Over time, telomere shortening should be slowed if redox stress is very low. Given the accuracy of current telomere testing, it would probably take many years to see an effect.

Plasma glucose, triglycerides, BMI, total cholesterol and HDL are all correlated with TBARS, but it's more likely that they affect redox state, rather than redox state affecting them, so the usefulness of these as markers of redox status is probably low.

[Andey]

Hi everybody )
My first bottles of SV C60 are on the way. Can you suggest some blood tests (cheap and simple )) that I can make before and after to make some measurable difference ?

OMG! Finally we have a winner (that is, if there was a huge Longecity prize to give away, you would definitely get it....maybe we can send you some thank you points). You are the first person (that I have seen in this forum) who is diligent enough to get objective human data on C60. Please get some sort-of before and after tests, even the most simple blood test could show something interesting. Objective data is sorely needed. Thanks for taking this extra step, and be sure to let us know how things work out.

Thank you for compliment ) I will do 'before' test tomorrow )

[Andey]

Hi everybody )
My first bottles of SV C60 are on the way. Can you suggest some blood tests (cheap and simple )) that I can make before and after to make some measurable difference ?

hello Andey and welcome to the forum

Where did you ordered your c60 bottles? I'm thinking about ordering 1g of 99.9% pure c60 from Germany (link posted by mait in other thread) and make my own solution.
I don't know if i will manage to get some blood test as well (perhaps old trick - visiting my doctor with "some non-specific health problems" - it works sometimes and he sends me to lab for blood tests and the bill goes to State Insurance System. Other option would be some commercial lab. I have no idea about options in Ukraine though.
someone mentioned cholesterol level before and after c60 maybe this would be one to have tested

@Mind:> If someone could suggests list of most important things good to have tested for C60EVOO in human rats experiment, I'll think about having some more comprehensive blood tests done.(will pick only the ones i can afford atm) i agree that its important to know whats actualy happening in the body.

--
Just looking at prices for commercial tests i can get in my area: lipides are quite cheap [1-3 dollars, except homocystein and apoliporoteins; glucose and minerals are very cheap as well [im actualy surprised how much can be tested for little money]. I guess in Ukraine it will be even cheaper

Hello and thank you )

I ordered mine from http://shop.owndoc.c...lls-in-oil.html, 3 90 ml bottles for $105.
It looks that DIY product will be much cheaper but I dont have any equipment to do it ( Are there any option to made it not having a professional lab at your own disposal ? ))

I think I will do set of test that prescribed before hospitalisation in my country - its relatively cheap an include basic biochemical blood test, liver ferments, something for kidney functionality, lipids and glucose. I dont think that it will be changed by c60 but it will be interesting if it will )

In general also an interesting research would be measure vO2max and anaerobic treshhold via kind of threadmill test but you need to be a kind of athlete to exclude external influence on this test. I swim several times a week and every time it feels bit different better or worse and i dont know what it depends on.

[JohnD60]

It looks that DIY product will be much cheaper but I dont have any equipment to do it ( Are there any option to made it not having a professional lab at your own disposal ? ))

There is a seperate thread on it