3585 replies to this topic

[Mind]

Hi everybody )
My first bottles of SV C60 are on the way. Can you suggest some blood tests (cheap and simple )) that I can make before and after to make some measurable difference ?

OMG! Finally we have a winner (that is, if there was a huge Longecity prize to give away, you would definitely get it....maybe we can send you some thank you points). You are the first person (that I have seen in this forum) who is diligent enough to get objective human data on C60. Please get some sort-of before and after tests, even the most simple blood test could show something interesting. Objective data is sorely needed. Thanks for taking this extra step, and be sure to let us know how things work out.

Thank you for compliment ) I will do 'before' test tomorrow )

You might want to bank/preserve a small sample of blood as well. At some point in the future, there might be a commercial test you can use/afford to measure some other blood markers that are not available (cheaply) right now.

[silvioster]

For people left wondering about the solubility of C60 in oils, specifically the contradictions between the Russian authors and Cataldo et al, check this out:

In 1999, a preliminary analysis: "ORIENTATIONAL PHASE TRANSITION IN SOLID C6o: BIFURCATION APPROACH" By Tareeva and Shchelkacheva. It indicates that C60 undergoes a change around temperature of 260 Kelvin.

Then this paper "SOLUBILITY AND TRANSFORMATION OF FULLERENE C60 MOLECULE" by SCHUR et al: https://intranet.nas...nsformation.pdf
It indicates that maximum solubility is at or around 280K, with next phase transition around 260K.

In this context, re-reading the paper by Franco Cataldo and Tibor Braun from 2007 and on makes much more sense.
Out of all temperatures 10 and 70 Celsius, they found the maximum solubility at 10 Celsius, which incidentally, is ~283 Kelvin.
At the same time, they found that higher temperatures (75 Celsius) produce a different result - C60 reacts with the solvent, although they didn't analyze the reason or constituents of this reaction further.

The original rat paper did the solution at room temperature, so, unless you understand the mechanisms and confident in your skills, you're better off repeating the mixing at room temperature, instead of going for high-temperature shortcuts, which might produce liquid completely dissimilar to the one in the rat paper.

In summary, based on the chain of papers above and referenced by them, _Room temperature_, especially around 10 degrees Celsius, seems to be the best environment for solution of c60 in olive oil to take place.

[Andey]

You might want to bank/preserve a small sample of blood as well. At some point in the future, there might be a commercial test you can use/afford to measure some other blood markers that are not available (cheaply) right now.

Sorry for delay ) I've done the test but have been little busy last days so I translate results and made a post only today.
http://www.longecity...8922-log-andey/

[niner]

For people left wondering about the solubility of C60 in oils, specifically the contradictions between the Russian authors and Cataldo et al, check this out:

In 1999, a preliminary analysis: "ORIENTATIONAL PHASE TRANSITION IN SOLID C6o: BIFURCATION APPROACH" By Tareeva and Shchelkacheva. It indicates that C60 undergoes a change around temperature of 260 Kelvin.

Then this paper "SOLUBILITY AND TRANSFORMATION OF FULLERENE C60 MOLECULE" by SCHUR et al: https://intranet.nas...nsformation.pdf
It indicates that maximum solubility is at or around 280K, with next phase transition around 260K.

In this context, re-reading the paper by Franco Cataldo and Tibor Braun from 2007 and on makes much more sense.
Out of all temperatures 10 and 70 Celsius, they found the maximum solubility at 10 Celsius, which incidentally, is ~283 Kelvin.
At the same time, they found that higher temperatures (75 Celsius) produce a different result - C60 reacts with the solvent, although they didn't analyze the reason or constituents of this reaction further.

Thanks for finding this interesting paper. A lot of us were puzzled about the unusual temperature dependence of fullerene solubility. The reaction of C60 with olive oil is exactly what we want, however, so maybe heating isn't such a bad idea.

[Turnbuckle]

The reaction of C60 with olive oil is exactly what we want, however, so maybe heating isn't such a bad idea.

You want the reaction why? It certainly would not reproduce the product of the rat paper.

[mpe]

C60 diary.
22/9/12.
Received c60 from Carbon.
It took 10 days to be airmailed from the U.S and clear customs.
My wife (Donna) and I decided to try it immediately .
It was about 1.00 pm just after lunch.
The initial plan is to dose only once a week.
The dosage was about 12 to 13 mls each.
The mixture looked just like the photos with its ruby red colour.
To be honest we didn't know if we would feel anything at all or if there we would be a pronounced effect within hours.
The taste of the mixture wasn't bad, but I wouldn't want to drink a lot of it at once.
It's Spring in Australia ,about 25 degrees C it's windy with lots of pollen in the air.
Both Donna and I have been suffering a bit from inflamed sinuses, not a lot, but its annoying and the sinus ares of our faces were visibly swollen.
About an hour to an hour and a half later, my wife commented that the swelling in my face had remarkably reduced and I realised that I could breath through my nose much more easily. That was totally unexpected given I had been out mowing the lawn and had been under our cars doing oil changes etc. 
Donna had been mostly in the house during that time doing house work, vacuuming and cleaning etc. Her inflamed sinuses had also visibly reduced and continued to do so for several more hours, and her breathing was noticeably easier.
Over the rest of the day I noticed that the pain and stiffness in my left knee had remarkably reduced, and both Donna and I had a feeling of well being and more energy for the rest of the day.
That night the entire family was off to Hooters for my sons birthday, his choice. Donna and I both noted higher energy levels through out the evening and we eventually went to bed around 11.30pm.
Today,
We woke around 8.30 in the morning, my sinuses are a bit blocked and I have a sore neck from my crap pillow. The blocked sinuses aren't bad and are much better than I usually experience after a night out on the beer.
I slept really well for a 56 year old man, I didn't have to get up for a pee once!
I had been drinking the night before and that usually results in 2 or 3 trips to the toilet throughout the night.
That was fantastic in itself, but just as good was that when I woke I didn't have that immediate urge to urinate.
My knee which is usually quite stiff in the first few minutes of getting out of bed was fine, it felt like my right uninjured knee.
When Donna eventually came downstairs, she commented that her left hip which has some arthritic pain, morning stiffness and results in difficulty going up and down stairs was feeling much better and that she ad no problems coming down the stairs this morning.

[niner]

The reaction of C60 with olive oil is exactly what we want, however, so maybe heating isn't such a bad idea.

You want the reaction why? It certainly would not reproduce the product of the rat paper.

The reaction is the formation of the C60-olive oil adduct. You wouldn't get Baati's results without it. The solubility of unreacted C60 in olive oil is about two orders of magnitude lower than we get with adduct formation. The red color is an indication that an addition reaction has occurred. That's the characteristic color of a C60 addition product.

[mikey]

C60 diary.
22/9/12.
Received c60 from Carbon.
It took 10 days to be airmailed from the U.S and clear customs.
My wife (Donna) and I decided to try it immediately .
It was about 1.00 pm just after lunch.
The initial plan is to dose only once a week.
The dosage was about 12 to 13 mls each.
The mixture looked just like the photos with its ruby red colour.
To be honest we didn't know if we would feel anything at all or if there we would be a pronounced effect within hours.
The taste of the mixture wasn't bad, but I wouldn't want to drink a lot of it at once.
It's Spring in Australia ,about 25 degrees C it's windy with lots of pollen in the air.
Both Donna and I have been suffering a bit from inflamed sinuses, not a lot, but its annoying and the sinus ares of our faces were visibly swollen.
About an hour to an hour and a half later, my wife commented that the swelling in my face had remarkably reduced and I realised that I could breath through my nose much more easily. That was totally unexpected given I had been out mowing the lawn and had been under our cars doing oil changes etc.
Donna had been mostly in the house during that time doing house work, vacuuming and cleaning etc. Her inflamed sinuses had also visibly reduced and continued to do so for several more hours, and her breathing was noticeably easier.
Over the rest of the day I noticed that the pain and stiffness in my left knee had remarkably reduced, and both Donna and I had a feeling of well being and more energy for the rest of the day.
That night the entire family was off to Hooters for my sons birthday, his choice. Donna and I both noted higher energy levels through out the evening and we eventually went to bed around 11.30pm.
Today,
We woke around 8.30 in the morning, my sinuses are a bit blocked and I have a sore neck from my crap pillow. The blocked sinuses aren't bad and are much better than I usually experience after a night out on the beer.
I slept really well for a 56 year old man, I didn't have to get up for a pee once!
I had been drinking the night before and that usually results in 2 or 3 trips to the toilet throughout the night.
That was fantastic in itself, but just as good was that when I woke I didn't have that immediate urge to urinate.
My knee which is usually quite stiff in the first few minutes of getting out of bed was fine, it felt like my right uninjured knee.
When Donna eventually came downstairs, she commented that her left hip which has some arthritic pain, morning stiffness and results in difficulty going up and down stairs was feeling much better and that she ad no problems coming down the stairs this morning.

Thanks for the interesting personal report. I'd like to ask you to please copy your report and paste it in the section called "C60 Surprises - Anecdotes Of Unique Health Benefits" at http://www.longecity...ealth-benefits/ so that there is a central place that people can read such interesting information.

Thank you!

[xEva]

C60 diary.

That's really amazing.

I too got it from Carbon last week, mainly for an elderly relative (83 y.o.). I tried it too, out of curiosity. So, we both dosed about mL every other day, 3 times already (when I remembered, lol, we're not good at taking stuff daily). The only thing I noticed --maybe-- was being a bit calmer couple of hours after the first dose, which reminded me of when I meditated regularly. I asked her about her impressions and she only said, "Well, nothing got any worse, that's for sure." Maybe we are just not perceptive -? or don't have obvious health issues, like arthritis -? She does have high blood pressure and high triglycerides, which we have not checked in these days.

[Turnbuckle]

The reaction of C60 with olive oil is exactly what we want, however, so maybe heating isn't such a bad idea.

You want the reaction why? It certainly would not reproduce the product of the rat paper.

The reaction is the formation of the C60-olive oil adduct. You wouldn't get Baati's results without it. The solubility of unreacted C60 in olive oil is about two orders of magnitude lower than we get with adduct formation. The red color is an indication that an addition reaction has occurred. That's the characteristic color of a C60 addition product.

I get the color by dissolving it at room temperature. So did Baati, right? So if you cook it at 75C you'll get something different.

[niner]

The reaction of C60 with olive oil is exactly what we want, however, so maybe heating isn't such a bad idea.

You want the reaction why? It certainly would not reproduce the product of the rat paper.

The reaction is the formation of the C60-olive oil adduct. You wouldn't get Baati's results without it. The solubility of unreacted C60 in olive oil is about two orders of magnitude lower than we get with adduct formation. The red color is an indication that an addition reaction has occurred. That's the characteristic color of a C60 addition product.

I get the color by dissolving it at room temperature. So did Baati, right? So if you cook it at 75C you'll get something different.

Not necessarily different. You probably get the same thing faster. Reaction rates usually increase exponentially with temperature, and this is a slow reaction at room temp. I've been running it at room temp for a week now, and heating is starting to look attractive. I'll grant that you could get a new product showing up at an increased temp. Not guaranteed, but I can't rule it out. Olive oil is pretty heat stable at 75; we cook with it at temperatures a lot higher than that, and then eat it.

[hav]

The reaction of C60 with olive oil is exactly what we want, however, so maybe heating isn't such a bad idea.

You want the reaction why? It certainly would not reproduce the product of the rat paper.

The reaction is the formation of the C60-olive oil adduct. You wouldn't get Baati's results without it. The solubility of unreacted C60 in olive oil is about two orders of magnitude lower than we get with adduct formation. The red color is an indication that an addition reaction has occurred. That's the characteristic color of a C60 addition product.

I get the color by dissolving it at room temperature. So did Baati, right? So if you cook it at 75C you'll get something different.

Not necessarily different. You probably get the same thing faster. Reaction rates usually increase exponentially with temperature, and this is a slow reaction at room temp. I've been running it at room temp for a week now, and heating is starting to look attractive. I'll grant that you could get a new product showing up at an increased temp. Not guaranteed, but I can't rule it out. Olive oil is pretty heat stable at 75; we cook with it at temperatures a lot higher than that, and then eat it.

I hope you're right about that. Because the paper silvioster cites suggests that at key temperatures, the internal bonds holding c60 together change. Further suggesting that dissolving c60 below one of the break points will yield different adducts than when the c60 is dissolved above the break point. Three key temperature breakpoints are described: 260, 280, and 310 degrees K. Although silvioster cautions about the 280K breakpoint when dissolving c60 in olive oil, the other breakpoint at 310K may be more significant. This quote from the paper mentions it:

The special feature of examined process is the fact that the temperatures of two transformations in the molecule C60, staying in solution, are near to the temperature of medium of habitation of living and vegetable world. The first exists at the temperature near to the temperature of human body (310 K), and the second – near the temperature of 0oC (273 K), which is the threshold of existence of the most representatives of living and vegetable world.

This suggests to me that c60 adducts may not be as stable as we've presumed. The c60 may dissociate from an adduct and form new ones when a breakpoint is crossed. And some humans may experience differing effects as their body temperatures move above and below the 310K breakpoint at any given time. Wistar rats may not ever see this effect. This paper indicates their body temperature is typically a few degrees higher than humans. except when they've been fasting around 2.5 days (see figure 2):

http://ep.physoc.org.../3/541.full.pdf

My usual body temperature, btw, is 97.5F.

Howard

Edited by hav, 23 September 2012 - 04:52 AM.

[Logan]

Guys, I'm not experiencing nearly as bad muscle and tendon issues I have been for so long. I've been taking SV's product for 5 days now.

2 variables:
Upped my LDN dose to 3 mg about 2 weeks ago
Started transitioning from Zoloft to lexapro about 3 weeks ago.

Tonight I noticed I can flex my calve muscles without them seizing up and cramping on me. I feel strong, like I want to go play tackle football. Damn I wish I had been better to my body and mind over the years.

Edit: dup.

Edited by rwac, 24 September 2012 - 05:13 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

The reaction of C60 with olive oil is exactly what we want, however, so maybe heating isn't such a bad idea.

You want the reaction why? It certainly would not reproduce the product of the rat paper.

The reaction is the formation of the C60-olive oil adduct. You wouldn't get Baati's results without it. The solubility of unreacted C60 in olive oil is about two orders of magnitude lower than we get with adduct formation. The red color is an indication that an addition reaction has occurred. That's the characteristic color of a C60 addition product.

I get the color by dissolving it at room temperature. So did Baati, right? So if you cook it at 75C you'll get something different.

Not necessarily different. You probably get the same thing faster. Reaction rates usually increase exponentially with temperature, and this is a slow reaction at room temp. I've been running it at room temp for a week now, and heating is starting to look attractive. I'll grant that you could get a new product showing up at an increased temp. Not guaranteed, but I can't rule it out. Olive oil is pretty heat stable at 75; we cook with it at temperatures a lot higher than that, and then eat it.

You just have this in a bottle, right? You really need to put it in a magnetic stirrer. With C60 it took days, not weeks, and with mixed fullerenes, hours, not days. And with d-limonene as the solvent (not recommended), the solution process began instantly. So I think the room temp process is a function of viscosity and crystallinity, not reactivity. Oil has difficulty getting between the molecules of the relatively pure C60 crystals.

[niner]

I've been running it at room temp for a week now, and heating is starting to look attractive.

You just have this in a bottle, right? You really need to put it in a magnetic stirrer. With C60 it took days, not weeks, and with mixed fullerenes, hours, not days. And with d-limonene as the solvent (not recommended), the solution process began instantly. So I think the room temp process is a function of viscosity and crystallinity, not reactivity. Oil has difficulty getting between the molecules of the relatively pure C60 crystals.

You might be right about the importance of dissolution vs. reaction. Limonene is highly reactive, so that probably helped, but it's also a much better solvent than vegetable oils. The mixed fullerenes are a good example though- same reactivity, unless the C70 has spuriously high reactivity that we don't know about, but because the crystal lattice is destabilized by the oblong C70, it falls apart much easier. I'm just running it in a bottle and shaking it a couple times a day, so I do expect it to take a month. It probably would have helped a lot if I had milled the C60; some of the granules were pretty large. I think they're getting smaller though, to the extent I can tell by looking at it. This batch has an added complexity: Last year, I bought ten liters of a really great olive oil, which came in a giant polyethylene bottle. This is the oil that I used, and seconds after I poured it into the bottle with the C60, I remembered that last year, I had added vitamin E to it in order to reduce oxidation. My immediate thought was "oh crap, I'll have to dump this and start fresh", but in doing some reading on it, I found that olive oil has vitamin E in it, at a level of ~12mg/100g. I decided to go ahead with it and see how it looked, but I'm still worried that the added vitamin E may suppress the adduct formation. I still have enough C60 to start another batch with clean oil, so that's a possibility too.

[Turnbuckle]

You might be right about the importance of dissolution vs. reaction. Limonene is highly reactive, so that probably helped, but it's also a much better solvent than vegetable oils.

Limonene is certainly a good solvent for CoQ10, but with C60, not so much. While it went in fast due to its very low viscosity (100 times less than OO), the ultimate solubility seemed to be about the same. And the effect seemed not as good, but I finally decided it was the limonene itself as I had the same feeling from CoQ10 in limonene.

(As for CoQ10, I think limonene really helps the availability, but it's important to minimize the solvent as was done in the patent.)

Edited by Turnbuckle, 23 September 2012 - 12:45 PM.

[Logan]

I think I should have posted on another thread.

"c60 surprises"???

[tintinet]

I think I should have posted on another thread.

"c60 surprises"???

Thanks, Logan. Did you mention the dose of C60 you're taking?

[Logan]

I think I should have posted on another thread.

"c60 surprises"???

Thanks, Logan. Did you mention the dose of C60 you're taking?

I've been taking about 3 mg a day.

Man, I don't know what's going on; it could be the LDN. All I do know is my muscles and tendons feel better and function better than they have in years. I also have this "good" soreness that I used to experience. It would be cool if this is C60. If it isn't, I'm not complaining.

I'm going to lower the dose down to 1.5 and see if things continue as they are. I need to try to save the money.

I'm going to lower the dose down to 1.5 and see if things continue as they are. I need to try to save the money.

[niner]

I'm going to lower the dose down to 1.5 and see if things continue as they are. I need to try to save the money.

It probably will, based on the dose-responses that people are reporting, but be sure to let us know if it doesn't. If we can find an effect that will go away if you stop taking C60, and return if you resume C60, that would be really helpful. It would give us a way to know how long it takes for a given dose to clear. I think Lister was using 1.5, and saw effects fade after about a week. You could stop taking it for a week or two to see what happens. That would be a useful experiment.

Regarding the cost of this stuff, A gram of the highest grade that SES sells will set you back about $130 with shipping. A lot of people are using cheaper grades as well. A gram is enough to make over a liter, which will last you close to a year at 3 mg/day. If you use the low tech method (put the C60 in a bottle with oo, shake daily for a month) the only other cost will be 20 to 40 bucks for the oil.

[kenj]

Regarding the cost of this stuff, A gram of the highest grade that SES sells will set you back about $130 with shipping. A lot of people are using cheaper grades as well. A gram is enough to make over a liter, which will last you close to a year at 3 mg/day. If you use the low tech method (put the C60 in a bottle with oo, shake daily for a month) the only other cost will be 20 to 40 bucks for the oil.

Sorry, I'm not up to speed on the DIY method, can you point me to a post where the procedure/'recipe' is being explained (I haven't read this huge thread throughout)? Or, briefly explain here.

Thanks!

[BobSeitz]

Regarding the cost of this stuff, A gram of the highest grade that SES sells will set you back about $130 with shipping. A lot of people are using cheaper grades as well. A gram is enough to make over a liter, which will last you close to a year at 3 mg/day. If you use the low tech method (put the C60 in a bottle with oo, shake daily for a month) the only other cost will be 20 to 40 bucks for the oil.

Sorry, I'm not up to speed on the DIY method, can you point me to a post where the procedure/'recipe' is being explained (I haven't read this huge thread throughout)? Or, briefly explain here.

Thanks!

Kenj, I'm glad you asked. The two-page thread that describes this is here: Equipment- mixing, centrifuging and filtering - started 01 August 2012 - 10-07 AM.

I've been thinking that there should be a do-it-yourself cookbook summary. As soon as I can (hopefully within the next hour or two), I'll try to provide this, and will post it on the above-linked thread.

[Logan]

The DIY sounds pretty simple and easy.

Niner, does it really take month? I thought some only needed a few weeks. Im assuming this method works just as well as using a centrifuge, only it takes much longer.

I have to plan for this.

I will stay at 3 for another 4 or 5 days, then go to 1.5 for a week, then nothing for a week, and see what happens.

The DIY sounds pretty simple and easy.

Niner, does it really take month? I thought some only needed a few weeks. Im assuming this method works just as well as using a centrifuge, only it takes much longer.

I have to plan for this.

I will stay at 3 for another 4 or 5 days, then go to 1.5 for a week, then nothing for a week, and see what happens.

[niner]

Niner, does it really take month? I thought some only needed a few weeks. Im assuming this method works just as well as using a centrifuge, only it takes much longer.

A mechanical stirrer of some sort (magnetic or overhead) makes it go faster. If you're just shaking it a couple times a day, then it looks like you should plan on a month. The general consensus seems to be that nobody has a powerful enough centrifuge to remove particles that aren't trapped by a filter. I'm not planning on even filtering mine; I'll just decant the liquid off the top and store it in a dropper bottle or something similar. The stirrer and centrifuge are the most expensive equipment, so if you skipped those but you got the 0.22 micron filters and a hand pump, you would get as good a product as anyone else here is getting; it would just take a few weeks longer. The filters and hand pump setup are pretty cheap. I might even do that...

[Logan]

I'm assuming I can purchase the stirrer and pump filter online.

Btw, thanks Niner

[niner]

I'm assuming I can purchase the stirrer and pump filter online.

Btw, thanks Niner

No problem; glad to help.

Yeah, it's all online. Several people have had one kind of stirrer burn out on them. I think it was a Hana(?) or something like that, but don't quote me on it. Since olive oil is pretty viscous, it needs to be a robust stirrer. Someone here might know a brand that works.

[Logan]

Cool, thanks again

[mpe]

Instead of a stirrer, how about an old paint shop paint can shaker?

[tintinet]

Instead of a stirrer, how about an old paint shop paint can shaker?

I can't imagine why not. I'm using the low tech bottle hand shake method, but I'm at one month and still appear to have some way to go before it's done.

[niner]

Instead of a stirrer, how about an old paint shop paint can shaker?

I can't imagine why not. I'm using the low tech bottle hand shake method, but I'm at one month and still appear to have some way to go before it's done.

Paint shakers are pretty violent. I would worry that it might generate a foam if there was any air in the container. I think you actually need to have oxygen present to get the reaction to go at a decent rate, so if there wasn't any air, it might go slower.

Maybe a drill press set on its lowest speed? There's also the issue of asking any motor to run for two weeks straight- you'd want it to be made for that kind of use.

With the low tech method, I would look for a deep red color as evidence for done-ness. There will probably still be visible particles of unreacted C60. I think I will probably just start to draw a few cc off the top and begin taking it when the color looks good, but I'll keep on shaking it periodically until I can't see any more particles.