3585 replies to this topic

[mikeinnaples]

I've been micromanaging my workout routine for years. I've taken 5, 15ml doses of c60-oo over the past 2 1/4 months and have observed no noticeable changes in strength or endurance .

Like you, I too micromanage my workouts. I also made it a point to log a few works outs systematically prior to beginning C60, making sure to include normal 'post recovery' period workouts. Take a look at my log from the post c60 test, keep in mind I am a skeptic, and see if you think the results are placebo. Did I get drastic results? No. I did get 'enough' to convince me something is going on in regards to endurance rather than strength.

[Mind]

For the strength-endurance reports, what would be great is to get tested on VO-Max both before and after supplementing with C60oo. Otherwise, with some reporting dramatic results and others not, I am afraid the evil and powerful placebo effect could be at work. The one effect of C60oo that seems legit (at this point) is the hair re-growth. I am fairly certain that the placebo effect would not affect hair growth much at all.

As far as banning the substance goes. It depends on how effective C60oo truly is. If it really keeps people healthy, then the FDA will be certain to ban it or harshly regulate it (or at least try). If it increases strength as well, then there is even a higher likelihood it will be banned world-wide. The tyrants in the U.S. congress are uniquely fixated on making sure no one ever breaks the baseball home run record - health and longevity be damned.

[motorcitykid]

Hi Mike. Sure I think it's possible that you experienced some increase in endurance-I'm just not completely convinced yet. It seems that most people who get the C60-oo cough(which I believe is genuine) are more likely to report increases in endurance, or other types of positve biological/physiological reactions. The reason could be that the C60-oo adduct is really working some magic, OR it could partially be the C60-00 adduct working some majic, mixed with a little placebo, OR it could be that some people who get the c60-oo cough have high expectations and WILL the added endurance to be there.

I take tocotrienols on occasion to support hair health and texture but not to prevent graying. If your hair got darker, that means that the tocotrienols or the c60-oo initiated some kind of hair color reversal. To my knowledge, there's no solid research out there that can back up that claim for tocotrienols. Even the LEF, a company always ready jump on a solid in-vitro study and launch a new product doesnt claim that their tocotrienols can prevent graying, let along reverse hair color to a natural state.

This NYU study seem to think graying has more to do with Wnt signalling and Melonocyte stem cells:
http://www.scienceda...10614115046.htm

If that's the case, I think that C60-oo would be a more likely candidate to return greying hair to its natural color than would tocotrienols. But I still think its very unlikely.

Here's something in development from L'oreal:
http://www.huffingto..._n_1210499.html

Here's a piece of the article:
"undisclosed fruit extract that mimics TRP-2 (also known as tyrosinase-related protein), which is an enzyme that protects your hair pigment. There's a catch, however: the pill only prevents grey hair -- if you're already sporting silver locks, it's too late. In fact, you'd need to take the pill regularly for 10 years prior to going grey to reap the benefits.

[mikeinnaples]

For the strength-endurance reports, what would be great is to get tested on VO-Max both before and after supplementing with C60oo. Otherwise, with some reporting dramatic results and others not, I am afraid the evil and powerful placebo effect could be at work. The one effect of C60oo that seems legit (at this point) is the hair re-growth. I am fairly certain that the placebo effect would not affect hair growth much at all.

As far as banning the substance goes. It depends on how effective C60oo truly is. If it really keeps people healthy, then the FDA will be certain to ban it or harshly regulate it (or at least try). If it increases strength as well, then there is even a higher likelihood it will be banned world-wide. The tyrants in the U.S. congress are uniquely fixated on making sure no one ever breaks the baseball home run record - health and longevity be damned.

I wonder if there has been any research on placebo effect vs. skepticism. My rationalization is that a skeptic would be less prone to placebo than someone who is expecting a result. Of course, even having the seed of an expected result planted in your thoughts may counter the skepticism. Hmm... Could placebo effect cause me to crank out 3-4 more reps before failure than I was ever able to previously do before? Or in the case of the ab exercise I logged, 15 reps. Could the placebo affect cause my heart to beat slower under specific load that it ever has before? Placebo *is* powerful.

I do find my initial results interesting because I was expecting nothing. In fact, I was expecting to be able to make a smug report that it did nothing for me as a counterpoint to all the claims that it did. It wasn't a strength increase that I really noticed though, it was an increase in endurance under load. My first exercise in the muscle group didn't really show anything special that couldn't easily be explained away as a normal gain. Different story though with the second and third exercise. Anyone that has been lifting weights for a long time knows that 4 rep gains in an experienced lifter just don't happen between one lifting session and the next. Don't get me wrong it 'can' happen in a one off scenario if the baseline was performed during injury, stress, sickness, lack of sleep, etc. I made a point of ruling this out by logging several sessions worth, including normal post recovery 'gains' if any.

Anyways my 'endurance' result so far was reinforced by my heart rate under load. Sure, heart rate can vary under load due to a lot of different things. I am just not so sure 6-8 bpm is within the 'normal' variance as this is outside of my area of expertise or knowledge at the moment. It sure would play right into some of the theory crafting that has been going on about C60 and lung function or oxygen utilization though, or to the endurance increase reports in general regardless of actual cause.

Hi Mike. Sure I think it's possible that you experienced some increase in endurance-I'm just not completely convinced yet. It seems that most people who get the C60-oo cough(which I believe is genuine) are more likely to report increases in endurance, or other types of positve biological/physiological reactions.

By C60 cough, are you referring to a general feeling of malaise as a whole that some people are reporting?

[stephen_b]

For the strength-endurance reports, what would be great is to get tested on VO-Max both before and after supplementing with C60oo.

In endurance sports VO2 max isn't as strongly correlated with winning as you might think. It is the percentage of VO2max the athlete can use that turns out to be more important in predicting performance.

[Turnbuckle]

It seems that most people who get the C60-oo cough(which I believe is genuine) are more likely to report increases in endurance, or other types of positve biological/physiological reactions. The reason could be that the C60-oo adduct is really working some magic, OR it could partially be the C60-00 adduct working some majic, mixed with a little placebo, OR it could be that some people who get the c60-oo cough have high expectations and WILL the added endurance to be there.

The cough (which I've never experienced) is due to the oleocanthal in the EVOO, not to the C60.

http://www.npr.org/b...u-want-to-cough

Edited by Turnbuckle, 13 March 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[motorcitykid]

If I'm not mistaken, people seem to be referimg to a mild cough that lingers for sometime, similar to the effects of coming down with a cold. That's different than the cough from peppery evoo.

[mikeinnaples]

Oh ok, never experienced that myself. Neither did my dog, who is also a lab rat.

[Kevnzworld]

If I'm not mistaken, people seem to be referimg to a mild cough that lingers for sometime, similar to the effects of coming down with a cold. That's different than the cough from peppery evoo.

Ok, I can finally say that I've experienced one of the effects that others have reported after taking C60OO.
The cough. It has been lingering on and off for a few months. I figured that it was just an allergic reaction until now.

[motorcitykid]

Hey Mike, thanks for posting a more detailed description of your skeptical attitude and how you came to your conclusions. From your description it sounds like your endurance and stamina have increased, and it could surely be due to the c60-00. However, I'm still on the fence about those conclusions, partially because I haven't experienced anything close to what you and some others are reporting.

[Andey]

Anyways my 'endurance' result so far was reinforced by my heart rate under load. Sure, heart rate can vary under load due to a lot of different things. I am just not so sure 6-8 bpm is within the 'normal' variance as this is outside of my area of expertise or knowledge at the moment. It sure would play right into some of the theory crafting that has been going on about C60 and lung function or oxygen utilization though, or to the endurance increase reports in general regardless of actual cause.

I had quite scare recently when my HR dropped to 45. But no arrhythmia signs, blood pressure was normal and overall body feelings is as usual.
My usual HR before C60 was about 65 in untrained periods of my life and about 60 in trained. Dont sure what is the cause, continious training or C60oo, but this numbers are going down last months and now my resting HR is about 50-55 and even lesser while fasting days.

Edited by Andey, 13 March 2013 - 06:55 PM.

[Marty D]

xEva reported breathing rates having gone way down after starting c60oo. Heart rate and breathing rate kind of go hand and in hand? http://www.longecity..._60#entry568649 And concluded that a lot of the endurance enhancements were due to " improved lung function."

Also reviewing the Baati experiment I found a lot of mention of Wistar Rats dying of pneumonia and the interesting result that the lab study survivors did not.

Having COPD the idea of a cough is something that sounds familiar, maybe a kind of a tickle? (Thinking out loud don't know why )

[niner]

What is up with this alleged c60 cough? I've been following this forum like a hawk since the day it was created, and this is the first time it's come up that I can recall. This has been a bad winter for upper respiratory infections- That's probably the best explanation.

[niner]

Regarding skepticism and placebo effects: I suffered from postural hypotension that caused light-headedness if I stood up too fast; this has been a problem for several years, maybe more. It was all but eliminated from my first dose of c60. If that's a placebo effect, I'll take it. I had eczema on my hands for a decade. I could never get rid of it, but could keep it under control with topical steroids. Now it's gone. Placebo? Again, I'll take it. I saw the muscle fatigue effect, just like Mike did. I'd been at a constant level of 8 reps max on the second set of a chest press, and it instantly jumped to 12, with plenty left in reserve. I only stopped out of a sense of caution, although it turned out that I wasn't cautious enough, because I eventually injured myself. Placebo? Pretty potent effect, if so.

Now lets consider the areas where placebo effects usually show up: Did I feel "better"? No. Did I feel stronger or more energetic? No. Did I feel more awesome? Was the grass greener and the sky bluer? No, No, and No. Placebo effects usually show up in the fuzzier endpoints, but people are seeing effects in harder endpoints. Something to bear in mind is that you won't "feel" anything from C60 unless you start out with any of a number of health conditions characterized by hypoxia or chronic inflammation. The hypoxia effects show up overnight, but the chronic inflammation effects take a lot longer. The other way you will feel c60 is if you work a trained muscle to the point of fatigue. (Untrained muscles have other failure modes that occur sooner.) You need to be acquainted with your limits in order to see it. Mike's quantification of his heart rate at the end of a defined cardio program showed a distinct effect, but without quantification, I think it might be hard to "feel" that it was happening.

[Jehyst]

Thought I might chime in and say that I have experienced the burning/tickle from the 3rd SV batch I have. The first 2 didn't burn or make me cough, and the third batch looked and tasted different, and is quite peppery.

[niner]

As far as banning the substance goes. It depends on how effective C60oo truly is. If it really keeps people healthy, then the FDA will be certain to ban it or harshly regulate it (or at least try).

On what basis would this occur? Is there a law that says the FDA is supposed to keep the public sick? This sounds like the story of the secret cabal of pharmaceutical companies that is suppressing the cancer cure that already exists so they can get filthy rich selling toxic chemotherapeutics.

[Kevnzworld]

As far as banning the substance goes. It depends on how effective C60oo truly is. If it really keeps people healthy, then the FDA will be certain to ban it or harshly regulate it (or at least try).

On what basis would this occur? Is there a law that says the FDA is supposed to keep the public sick? This sounds like the story of the secret cabal of pharmaceutical companies that is suppressing the cancer cure that already exists so they can get filthy rich selling toxic chemotherapeutics.

If C60 proves to truly have transformative biological effects in humans, the pharmaceutical companies will pressure the FDA to restrict or ban its sale and distribution so that they can have the opportunity to make patented products. Not unlike what we saw with Pyridoxamine a few years ago.

[niner]

As far as banning the substance goes. It depends on how effective C60oo truly is. If it really keeps people healthy, then the FDA will be certain to ban it or harshly regulate it (or at least try).

On what basis would this occur? Is there a law that says the FDA is supposed to keep the public sick? This sounds like the story of the secret cabal of pharmaceutical companies that is suppressing the cancer cure that already exists so they can get filthy rich selling toxic chemotherapeutics.

If C60 proves to truly have transformative biological effects in humans, the pharmaceutical companies will pressure the FDA to restrict or ban its sale and distribution so that they can have the opportunity to make patented products. Not unlike what we saw with Pyridoxamine a few years ago.

In the pyridoxamine case, there was an IND application by Biostratum in 1999. This was prior to any sales of pyridoxamine as a supplement, giving precedence to the company. This was the FDA's rationale for preventing its sale. In the case of c60-oo, it's already being marketed as "something", although not explicitly as a food or dietary supplement. There aren't any IND filings for c60-oo that I'm aware of. I suppose a drug company could do a filing, then petition the FDA to stop sales of the ready-made products, but this would be a different legal matter than pyridoxamine, because Biostratum had precedence. It would presumably hinge on the issue of whether or not c60-oo met the definition of "supplement". I could make a tenuous case that it does, but only tenuous. I don't think they could plug the hole of people buying C60 and mixing it with olive oil. That would require a statutory change, as I understand it. As long as you aren't selling it, I think you'd be in the clear, but there may be some law covering self-experimentation that I'm not aware of.

[anagram]

unfortunately Anxiety is regarded now as declining one's health and a reason for serious aging. Unfortunately as 5 longecity people post ridiculous statements about how C60 will be banned, it frightens me that perhaps the anti-aging jihads are not honestly putting in the faith in C60 that was initially there. C60 is antioxidant, anti-aging, and beautiful of course If you have tried it properly you will have noticed a few mild but supplemental effects. Check what you say because it is entirely to soon to be nice to your doubts, it has not been 10 years since C60 has come out which means we absolutely don't know what will happen later on but all we have hope. If you are afraid that the Gov't will take away C60 then aging is the least of your concerns, namely your lack in trust is a problem in conjunction with your inseparable fear of death are going to cause C60 to legitimately be taken away for all of us because the Gov't is going to believe there is something behind all this. Remember please, we are all researchers whom are here to eliminate the externalization of life, drop all negatively influential issues, and change history by living past 100.

Edited by anagram, 14 March 2013 - 12:53 AM.

[motorcitykid]

Regarding skepticism and placebo effects: I suffered from postural hypotension that caused light-headedness if I stood up too fast; this has been a problem for several years, maybe more. It was all but eliminated from my first dose of c60. If that's a placebo effect, I'll take it. I had eczema on my hands for a decade. I could never get rid of it, but could keep it under control with topical steroids. Now it's gone. Placebo? Again, I'll take it. I saw the muscle fatigue effect, just like Mike did. I'd been at a constant level of 8 reps max on the second set of a chest press, and it instantly jumped to 12, with plenty left in reserve. I only stopped out of a sense of caution, although it turned out that I wasn't cautious enough, because I eventually injured myself. Placebo? Pretty potent effect, if so.

Now lets consider the areas where placebo effects usually show up: Did I feel "better"? No. Did I feel stronger or more energetic? No. Did I feel more awesome? Was the grass greener and the sky bluer? No, No, and No. Placebo effects usually show up in the fuzzier endpoints, but people are seeing effects in harder endpoints. Something to bear in mind is that you won't "feel" anything from C60 unless you start out with any of a number of health conditions characterized by hypoxia or chronic inflammation. The hypoxia effects show up overnight, but the chronic inflammation effects take a lot longer. The other way you will feel c60 is if you work a trained muscle to the point of fatigue. (Untrained muscles have other failure modes that occur sooner.) You need to be acquainted with your limits in order to see it. Mike's quantification of his heart rate at the end of a defined cardio program showed a distinct effect, but without quantification, I think it might be hard to "feel" that it was happening.

That's pretty amazing Niner. I'm trying to understand why there's such a big difference between people who are reporting these pro-health effects attributed to C6O-oo, and others such as myself who haven't experienced anything.

My bench press at 8 or 9 reps max is still at 8 or 9 reps max, unchanged after 15 years. I still have a hard time breaking a 6:30 mile The granuloma on my right hand is still there, unaffected by the C60-oo. I still get a major endorphin rush after my workout while others have reported feeling less of an endorphin rush after their workout. Maybe it has to do with the evo used to prep my C60-oo. I bought it from one of the recommended vendors here and it wasn't peppery at all. Maybe I'll have better luck on my next batch which I'm preparing at home. Still, based on the significant increase in endurance you and some others have experienced, I'd expect to experience at least a smidgen of increased endurance, regardless of the evo quality. The fact that I don't bugs me and makes me wonder.. why??

[free10]

As far as banning the substance goes. It depends on how effective C60oo truly is. If it really keeps people healthy, then the FDA will be certain to ban it or harshly regulate it (or at least try).

On what basis would this occur? Is there a law that says the FDA is supposed to keep the public sick? This sounds like the story of the secret cabal of pharmaceutical companies that is suppressing the cancer cure that already exists so they can get filthy rich selling toxic chemotherapeutics.

If C60 proves to truly have transformative biological effects in humans, the pharmaceutical companies will pressure the FDA to restrict or ban its sale and distribution so that they can have the opportunity to make patented products. Not unlike what we saw with Pyridoxamine a few years ago.

They don't have to go through the FDA to do it though that is one possibility. All they have to do is restrict it so much that it might as well be banned. They can claim it is a "possible dangerous ecological toxin" for example and available to only limited sources and require ridicules storage and transport rules for "safety" of the public.

Let's not forget the strange tale of the banning of tryptophan in 1991. For those that don't know tryptophan is an amino acid and found in turkey and some other foods. It was taken for years by millions to go to sleep, or to calm their minds which also helped with anger issues. Tryptophan makes serotonin with some help from some B vitamins and serotonin is an "inhibitor" neurotransmitter. In 1991 suddenly there is a rare blood condition showing up killing some people and according to FDA traced back to them taking tryptophan supplements and it was splashed throughout the media that tryptophan kills with big public warnings not to take it. This of course made no sense, since it was in food like turkey, in large amounts. They ban it, but investigation continues and months later they claim it was all coming from just one plant that was creating accidentally another chemical they thought was tryptophan and that was what poisoned so many.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Tryptophan

Even though they knew tryptophan was safe and it wasn't the cause now they continued the ban until the last few years. Sounds fishy doesn't it?? Well at the same time frame Eli Lilly received final approval to market the Prozac in December 1987. Fluoxetine went off-patent in August 2001. It works off once again through serotonian but in a different way and was quite dangerous causing murderous rages and suicides but it was big big money for Eli and the doctors and psychiatrists.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Fluoxetine

People prescribed it were quickly learning and turning to the safe and much cheaper alternative tryptophan, as they learned of the Prozac dangers. Now 4 years into the marketing of the golden goose for medical tryptophan was hot and Prozac was not and bam we have dead people from poisonous supposed tryptophan hitting the market. Like I said even though they knew it wasn't tryptophan it remained banned until after the Prozac patent expired. Make of it what you will.

They have whacked many products or things under the guise of safety that never was true. Hey remember R12 LOL We to this day are the only ones to have banned it. Sold a lot of less efficient, but new compressors and systems and new types of refrigerants and certain people profited. Scare campaigns is usually the way they justify what they do.

Do not be surprised if it becomes illegal to buy, make, or even own C60 in the future, but these are my observations. For fun you could watch the 1988 movie Tucker: The Man and His Dream.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096316/

Regarding skepticism and placebo effects: I suffered from postural hypotension that caused light-headedness if I stood up too fast; this has been a problem for several years, maybe more. It was all but eliminated from my first dose of c60. If that's a placebo effect, I'll take it. I had eczema on my hands for a decade. I could never get rid of it, but could keep it under control with topical steroids. Now it's gone. Placebo? Again, I'll take it. I saw the muscle fatigue effect, just like Mike did. I'd been at a constant level of 8 reps max on the second set of a chest press, and it instantly jumped to 12, with plenty left in reserve. I only stopped out of a sense of caution, although it turned out that I wasn't cautious enough, because I eventually injured myself. Placebo? Pretty potent effect, if so.

Now lets consider the areas where placebo effects usually show up: Did I feel "better"? No. Did I feel stronger or more energetic? No. Did I feel more awesome? Was the grass greener and the sky bluer? No, No, and No. Placebo effects usually show up in the fuzzier endpoints, but people are seeing effects in harder endpoints. Something to bear in mind is that you won't "feel" anything from C60 unless you start out with any of a number of health conditions characterized by hypoxia or chronic inflammation. The hypoxia effects show up overnight, but the chronic inflammation effects take a lot longer. The other way you will feel c60 is if you work a trained muscle to the point of fatigue. (Untrained muscles have other failure modes that occur sooner.) You need to be acquainted with your limits in order to see it. Mike's quantification of his heart rate at the end of a defined cardio program showed a distinct effect, but without quantification, I think it might be hard to "feel" that it was happening.

That's pretty amazing Niner. I'm trying to understand why there's such a big difference between people who are reporting these pro-health effects attributed to C6O-oo, and others such as myself who haven't experienced anything.

My bench press at 8 or 9 reps max is still at 8 or 9 reps max, unchanged after 15 years. I still have a hard time breaking a 6:30 mile The granuloma on my right hand is still there, unaffected by the C60-oo. I still get a major endorphin rush after my workout while others have reported feeling less of an endorphin rush after their workout. Maybe it has to do with the evo used to prep my C60-oo. I bought it from one of the recommended vendors here and it wasn't peppery at all. Maybe I'll have better luck on my next batch which I'm preparing at home. Still, based on the significant increase in endurance you and some others have experienced, I'd expect to experience at least a smidgen of increased endurance, regardless of the evo quality. The fact that I don't bugs me and makes me wonder.. why??

If I remember right you said you took 15mg 3 times over 45 days. Maybe 15mg a day for 3 days or longer would work better.

[motorcitykid]

As far as banning the substance goes. It depends on how effective C60oo truly is. If it really keeps people healthy, then the FDA will be certain to ban it or harshly regulate it (or at least try).

On what basis would this occur? Is there a law that says the FDA is supposed to keep the public sick? This sounds like the story of the secret cabal of pharmaceutical companies that is suppressing the cancer cure that already exists so they can get filthy rich selling toxic chemotherapeutics.

If C60 proves to truly have transformative biological effects in humans, the pharmaceutical companies will pressure the FDA to restrict or ban its sale and distribution so that they can have the opportunity to make patented products. Not unlike what we saw with Pyridoxamine a few years ago.

They don't have to go through the FDA to do it though that is one possibility. All they have to do is restrict it so much that it might as well be banned. They can claim it is a "possible dangerous ecological toxin" for example and available to only limited sources and require ridicules storage and transport rules for "safety" of the public.

Let's not forget the strange tale of the banning of tryptophan in 1991. For those that don't know tryptophan is an amino acid and found in turkey and some other foods. It was taken for years by millions to go to sleep, or to calm their minds which also helped with anger issues. Tryptophan makes serotonin with some help from some B vitamins and serotonin is an "inhibitor" neurotransmitter. In 1991 suddenly there is a rare blood condition showing up killing some people and according to FDA traced back to them taking tryptophan supplements and it was splashed throughout the media that tryptophan kills with big public warnings not to take it. This of course made no sense, since it was in food like turkey, in large amounts. They ban it, but investigation continues and months later they claim it was all coming from just one plant that was creating accidentally another chemical they thought was tryptophan and that was what poisoned so many.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Tryptophan

Even though they knew tryptophan was safe and it wasn't the cause now they continued the ban until the last few years. Sounds fishy doesn't it?? Well at the same time frame Eli Lilly received final approval to market the Prozac in December 1987. Fluoxetine went off-patent in August 2001. It works off once again through serotonian but in a different way and was quite dangerous causing murderous rages and suicides but it was big big money for Eli and the doctors and psychiatrists.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Fluoxetine

People prescribed it were quickly learning and turning to the safe and much cheaper alternative tryptophan, as they learned of the Prozac dangers. Now 4 years into the marketing of the golden goose for medical tryptophan was hot and Prozac was not and bam we have dead people from poisonous supposed tryptophan hitting the market. Like I said even though they knew it wasn't tryptophan it remained banned until after the Prozac patent expired. Make of it what you will.

They have whacked many products or things under the guise of safety that never was true. Hey remember R12 LOL We to this day are the only ones to have banned it. Sold a lot of less efficient, but new compressors and systems and new types of refrigerants and certain people profited. Scare campaigns is usually the way they justify what they do.

Do not be surprised if it becomes illegal to buy, make, or even own C60 in the future, but these are my observations. For fun you could watch the 1988 movie Tucker: The Man and His Dream.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096316/

Regarding skepticism and placebo effects: I suffered from postural hypotension that caused light-headedness if I stood up too fast; this has been a problem for several years, maybe more. It was all but eliminated from my first dose of c60. If that's a placebo effect, I'll take it. I had eczema on my hands for a decade. I could never get rid of it, but could keep it under control with topical steroids. Now it's gone. Placebo? Again, I'll take it. I saw the muscle fatigue effect, just like Mike did. I'd been at a constant level of 8 reps max on the second set of a chest press, and it instantly jumped to 12, with plenty left in reserve. I only stopped out of a sense of caution, although it turned out that I wasn't cautious enough, because I eventually injured myself. Placebo? Pretty potent effect, if so.

Now lets consider the areas where placebo effects usually show up: Did I feel "better"? No. Did I feel stronger or more energetic? No. Did I feel more awesome? Was the grass greener and the sky bluer? No, No, and No. Placebo effects usually show up in the fuzzier endpoints, but people are seeing effects in harder endpoints. Something to bear in mind is that you won't "feel" anything from C60 unless you start out with any of a number of health conditions characterized by hypoxia or chronic inflammation. The hypoxia effects show up overnight, but the chronic inflammation effects take a lot longer. The other way you will feel c60 is if you work a trained muscle to the point of fatigue. (Untrained muscles have other failure modes that occur sooner.) You need to be acquainted with your limits in order to see it. Mike's quantification of his heart rate at the end of a defined cardio program showed a distinct effect, but without quantification, I think it might be hard to "feel" that it was happening.

That's pretty amazing Niner. I'm trying to understand why there's such a big difference between people who are reporting these pro-health effects attributed to C6O-oo, and others such as myself who haven't experienced anything.

My bench press at 8 or 9 reps max is still at 8 or 9 reps max, unchanged after 15 years. I still have a hard time breaking a 6:30 mile The granuloma on my right hand is still there, unaffected by the C60-oo. I still get a major endorphin rush after my workout while others have reported feeling less of an endorphin rush after their workout. Maybe it has to do with the evo used to prep my C60-oo. I bought it from one of the recommended vendors here and it wasn't peppery at all. Maybe I'll have better luck on my next batch which I'm preparing at home. Still, based on the significant increase in endurance you and some others have experienced, I'd expect to experience at least a smidgen of increased endurance, regardless of the evo quality. The fact that I don't bugs me and makes me wonder.. why??

If I remember right you said you took 15mg 3 times over 45 days. Maybe 15mg a day for 3 days or longer would work better.

I've thought about dosing more frequently and I'm still considering it. But according to what I've read on this forum, my cells should already be pretty saturated. Thanks for the suggestion, Free.

Edited by motorcitykid, 14 March 2013 - 02:21 AM.

[Hebbeh]

Despite what many have said, I have to dose every day or the positive effects in regards to energy and exercise tolerance quickly fade by the third day for me.

[free10]

Despite what many have said, I have to dose every day or the positive effects in regards to energy and exercise tolerance quickly fade by the third day for me.

I started late January with a 1/4 teaspoon a week. I have bad bad COPD and ankylosing spondylitis and was cautious, but have started taking more, and more often. Right now at a teaspoon twice a week but like you that seems to be not often enough to keep the added power/benefits going.

[niner]

My bench press at 8 or 9 reps max is still at 8 or 9 reps max, unchanged after 15 years. I still have a hard time breaking a 6:30 mile The granuloma on my right hand is still there, unaffected by the C60-oo. I still get a major endorphin rush after my workout while others have reported feeling less of an endorphin rush after their workout. Maybe it has to do with the evo used to prep my C60-oo. I bought it from one of the recommended vendors here and it wasn't peppery at all. Maybe I'll have better luck on my next batch which I'm preparing at home. Still, based on the significant increase in endurance you and some others have experienced, I'd expect to experience at least a smidgen of increased endurance, regardless of the evo quality. The fact that I don't bugs me and makes me wonder.. why??

Is that 8 or 9 reps total in a single set? If so, and I'm just speculating here, maybe very heavy lifts have a different failure mode that doesn't involve ROS? I think most people who've seen it are doing multi-set routines with more reps. Distance running is a place where it at least seems reasonable to see an effect. Markymark had a new personal best, as I recall, but more than one other person has reported no change in their long distance times. The granuloma not resolving makes sense, since it's not a typical chronic inflammation. It's more like scar tissue, at a microscopic level. You're lucky that you're still getting the endorphin rush; that getting damped down is one of the negative side effects of c60. Still, it suggests that you aren't seeing the normal effects, and I can't really explain that. Have you noticed any difference in the effects of alcohol? (if you're a drinker) That's another thing that a lot of people notice. I don't think that the polyphenol level of the olive oil is really a factor. By all accounts, both vendors have used good quality olive oil, so I doubt that's an issue. How long have you taken it, and at what dose?

[NanoDoom]

It may or may not hurt, but it's highly unlikely to help things. I'd recommend making two batches of olive oil- one with the herb infusion, which you could use more like food, and another that just has c60, which you would use more like a supplement/drug. I really don't think there would be any sort of synergy between herbs and c60, but there is the possibility that you could get the formation of a compound that you really don't want.

You think it would be less 'risky' the other way around? Dissolving the fullerenes in the EVOO, and then infusing the herbs into what now is c60-OO ?

I get what you are saying.
But I'm trying to create an oil for topical application to the scalp (thinning/bald spots).
I cannot apply several layers of oils/other topicals over each other. The skin will be too saturated, and the topicals won't absorb.
The topical needs to be as concentrated as possible. This is why came up with the idea to infuse the c60-OO. There's plenty of 'room' for herbals extracts in to c60-OO.
But the question is if I risk altering the c60 adducts.

[niner]

Despite what many have said, I have to dose every day or the positive effects in regards to energy and exercise tolerance quickly fade by the third day for me.

I started late January with a 1/4 teaspoon a week. I have bad bad COPD and ankylosing spondylitis and was cautious, but have started taking more, and more often. Right now at a teaspoon twice a week but like you that seems to be not often enough to keep the added power/benefits going.

Sorry to hear about the COPD and AS, free. Are you getting any relief from c60 on either of those? I can't really explain some of the differences people are seeing in c60 activity. For some people, it seems to last forever. I was able to see the muscle fatigue effect fall off over a couple weeks after a 6mg dose, but for the other effects, I never stopped long enough to see them go away. At the moment, I'm about 6 weeks out from a 15mg dose. I can only speculate that differences in some aspect of xenobiotic metabolism are causing the compound to clear at very different rates in different people. I sure hope someone out there is doing some serious research on this; there are gaping holes in our knowledge.

[mikey]

Hi Mike. Sure I think it's possible that you experienced some increase in endurance-I'm just not completely convinced yet. It seems that most people who get the C60-oo cough(which I believe is genuine) are more likely to report increases in endurance, or other types of positve biological/physiological reactions. The reason could be that the C60-oo adduct is really working some magic, OR it could partially be the C60-00 adduct working some majic, mixed with a little placebo, OR it could be that some people who get the c60-oo cough have high expectations and WILL the added endurance to be there.

I take tocotrienols on occasion to support hair health and texture but not to prevent graying. If your hair got darker, that means that the tocotrienols or the c60-oo initiated some kind of hair color reversal. To my knowledge, there's no solid research out there that can back up that claim for tocotrienols. Even the LEF, a company always ready jump on a solid in-vitro study and launch a new product doesnt claim that their tocotrienols can prevent graying, let along reverse hair color to a natural state.

This NYU study seem to think graying has more to do with Wnt signalling and Melonocyte stem cells:
http://www.scienceda...10614115046.htm

If that's the case, I think that C60-oo would be a more likely candidate to return greying hair to its natural color than would tocotrienols. But I still think its very unlikely.

Here's something in development from L'oreal:
http://www.huffingto..._n_1210499.html

Here's a piece of the article:
"undisclosed fruit extract that mimics TRP-2 (also known as tyrosinase-related protein), which is an enzyme that protects your hair pigment. There's a catch, however: the pill only prevents grey hair -- if you're already sporting silver locks, it's too late. In fact, you'd need to take the pill regularly for 10 years prior to going grey to reap the benefits.

Well, it's not just me that saw that my hair has darkened.
I did a speaking event last summer in Albuquerque and someone who moved there and hadn't seen me in three years remarked that my hair was thicker and darker.

This without prompting.

There's no question that the tocotrienols were the only agent that could have made that happen.

[motorcitykid]

My bench press at 8 or 9 reps max is still at 8 or 9 reps max, unchanged after 15 years. I still have a hard time breaking a 6:30 mile The granuloma on my right hand is still there, unaffected by the C60-oo. I still get a major endorphin rush after my workout while others have reported feeling less of an endorphin rush after their workout. Maybe it has to do with the evo used to prep my C60-oo. I bought it from one of the recommended vendors here and it wasn't peppery at all. Maybe I'll have better luck on my next batch which I'm preparing at home. Still, based on the significant increase in endurance you and some others have experienced, I'd expect to experience at least a smidgen of increased endurance, regardless of the evo quality. The fact that I don't bugs me and makes me wonder.. why??

Is that 8 or 9 reps total in a single set? If so, and I'm just speculating here, maybe very heavy lifts have a different failure mode that doesn't involve ROS? I think most people who've seen it are doing multi-set routines with more reps. Distance running is a place where it at least seems reasonable to see an effect. Markymark had a new personal best, as I recall, but more than one other person has reported no change in their long distance times. The granuloma not resolving makes sense, since it's not a typical chronic inflammation. It's more like scar tissue, at a microscopic level. You're lucky that you're still getting the endorphin rush; that getting damped down is one of the negative side effects of c60. Still, it suggests that you aren't seeing the normal effects, and I can't really explain that. Have you noticed any difference in the effects of alcohol? (if you're a drinker) That's another thing that a lot of people notice. I don't think that the polyphenol level of the olive oil is really a factor. By all accounts, both vendors have used good quality olive oil, so I doubt that's an issue. How long have you taken it, and at what dose?

Yes, it's 8 or 9 reps in a single set, usually my 4th set.
I've taken 5, 15ml doses over the past 2 1/4 months. 15ml Jan 4th, followed by another 15ml dose one week later. Next 15ml dose was begining of Feb, another mid Feb, and another begining of March.

The granuloma appeared on both hands approx 3 years ago. After discovering my blood levels of dhea and pregnenalone were low, I sought out a doc and got a script for a transdermal dhea/pregnenalone cream. After applying the cream(not directly to the granuloma) for several months, the granuloma on my left hand completely dissappeard. The granuloma on my right hand improved significantly, but is still noticeable. I thought that C6o-oo might give it the knockout punch, but there's still no change in appearance.

I'm a lightweight when it comes to alcohol. Every once in a while I have a drink or 2 on Saturday night and I'm pretty looped. My alcohol tolerance hasn't changed. One glass of wine last Saturday and I was already heavily buzzing.

[maxwatt]

Latest round: 20 to 30 ml at .8 mg/ ml. several days in a row. Then cut back to same dose weekly.

Basically nothing's changed. I think my exercise tolerance is better than it should be with the amount of training I do. but it;s not spectacular.

.