3585 replies to this topic

[motorcitykid]

Hi Mike. Sure I think it's possible that you experienced some increase in endurance-I'm just not completely convinced yet. It seems that most people who get the C60-oo cough(which I believe is genuine) are more likely to report increases in endurance, or other types of positve biological/physiological reactions. The reason could be that the C60-oo adduct is really working some magic, OR it could partially be the C60-00 adduct working some majic, mixed with a little placebo, OR it could be that some people who get the c60-oo cough have high expectations and WILL the added endurance to be there.

I take tocotrienols on occasion to support hair health and texture but not to prevent graying. If your hair got darker, that means that the tocotrienols or the c60-oo initiated some kind of hair color reversal. To my knowledge, there's no solid research out there that can back up that claim for tocotrienols. Even the LEF, a company always ready jump on a solid in-vitro study and launch a new product doesnt claim that their tocotrienols can prevent graying, let along reverse hair color to a natural state.

This NYU study seem to think graying has more to do with Wnt signalling and Melonocyte stem cells:
http://www.scienceda...10614115046.htm

If that's the case, I think that C60-oo would be a more likely candidate to return greying hair to its natural color than would tocotrienols. But I still think its very unlikely.

Here's something in development from L'oreal:
http://www.huffingto..._n_1210499.html

Here's a piece of the article:
"undisclosed fruit extract that mimics TRP-2 (also known as tyrosinase-related protein), which is an enzyme that protects your hair pigment. There's a catch, however: the pill only prevents grey hair -- if you're already sporting silver locks, it's too late. In fact, you'd need to take the pill regularly for 10 years prior to going grey to reap the benefits.

Well, it's not just me that saw that my hair has darkened.
I did a speaking event last summer in Albuquerque and someone who moved there and hadn't seen me in three years remarked that my hair was thicker and darker.

This without prompting.

There's no question that the tocotrienols were the only agent that could have made that happen.

Maybe you had a shorter haircut, or a different haircut. People say those things to me sometimes without prompting, sometimes when I gel my hair. funny thing is,my hair is probably less dark. People also comment from time to time that my body looks thinner, or maybe more muscular but the fact is I've been 170 lbs for a very long time, and what they are seeing is a different set of cloths that make my body appear thinner or more muscular. Again, theres not one shred of solid research that I know of that shows tocotrienols can reverse the color of a persons hair to a darker color. But maybe you're one in a million, who knows anything's possible.

Edited by motorcitykid, 14 March 2013 - 03:54 AM.

[motorcitykid]

Hi Mike. Sure I think it's possible that you experienced some increase in endurance-I'm just not completely convinced yet. It seems that most people who get the C60-oo cough(which I believe is genuine) are more likely to report increases in endurance, or other types of positve biological/physiological reactions. The reason could be that the C60-oo adduct is really working some magic, OR it could partially be the C60-00 adduct working some majic, mixed with a little placebo, OR it could be that some people who get the c60-oo cough have high expectations and WILL the added endurance to be there.

I take tocotrienols on occasion to support hair health and texture but not to prevent graying. If your hair got darker, that means that the tocotrienols or the c60-oo initiated some kind of hair color reversal. To my knowledge, there's no solid research out there that can back up that claim for tocotrienols. Even the LEF, a company always ready jump on a solid in-vitro study and launch a new product doesnt claim that their tocotrienols can prevent graying, let along reverse hair color to a natural state.

This NYU study seem to think graying has more to do with Wnt signalling and Melonocyte stem cells:
http://www.scienceda...10614115046.htm

If that's the case, I think that C60-oo would be a more likely candidate to return greying hair to its natural color than would tocotrienols. But I still think its very unlikely.

Here's something in development from L'oreal:
http://www.huffingto..._n_1210499.html

Here's a piece of the article:
"undisclosed fruit extract that mimics TRP-2 (also known as tyrosinase-related protein), which is an enzyme that protects your hair pigment. There's a catch, however: the pill only prevents grey hair -- if you're already sporting silver locks, it's too late. In fact, you'd need to take the pill regularly for 10 years prior to going grey to reap the benefits.

Well, it's not just me that saw that my hair has darkened.
I did a speaking event last summer in Albuquerque and someone who moved there and hadn't seen me in three years remarked that my hair was thicker and darker.

This without prompting.

There's no question that the tocotrienols were the only agent that could have made that happen.

Btw Mike, I really don't know what your hair looked like before the tocotrienols, but if there was some sort of defficiancy it would make sense that the tocotrienols could have improved your hair texture enough to be noticeable.

[free10]

Despite what many have said, I have to dose every day or the positive effects in regards to energy and exercise tolerance quickly fade by the third day for me.

I started late January with a 1/4 teaspoon a week. I have bad bad COPD and ankylosing spondylitis and was cautious, but have started taking more, and more often. Right now at a teaspoon twice a week but like you that seems to be not often enough to keep the added power/benefits going.

Sorry to hear about the COPD and AS, free. Are you getting any relief from c60 on either of those? I can't really explain some of the differences people are seeing in c60 activity. For some people, it seems to last forever. I was able to see the muscle fatigue effect fall off over a couple weeks after a 6mg dose, but for the other effects, I never stopped long enough to see them go away. At the moment, I'm about 6 weeks out from a 15mg dose. I can only speculate that differences in some aspect of xenobiotic metabolism are causing the compound to clear at very different rates in different people. I sure hope someone out there is doing some serious research on this; there are gaping holes in our knowledge.

It's OK I is tough LOL

What I am getting from the C60 is hard to say and one reason for that is my COPD is almost on a switch that turns on and off. It is really weird. Imagine if you will, as Rod Serling use to say that someone could have little air capacity left and then had no problems with it minutes or hours later, and can stay like this for months or years. I originally had the problem show up in my late 20s and then taking massive vitamins (Life Extension by Shaw and Pearson) it went right away in hours and stayed gone for the next 15 years. Ran into again and went to my doc who blamed it on smoke and said I had the lungs of an 80 year old man and prescribed an inhaler which didn't really help. I got this theory that maybe AGEs were the problem and started taking large amounts of lipoic acid and once again I returned to normal, and when my 6 month checkup came around he was shocked to see me with no problems what's so ever and told him I had worked for 12 hours straight without rest the day before painting the outside of my building with a spray gun, and never ran out of air or got tired even though I was moving pretty fast the whole time. I was not using the inhalers either. Then around 5 years later it started showing up again but slowly over time as in years and by 2002 I sold my business because I couldn't really do it anymore. By 2006 I was on SS disability for the COPD and such bad shape I got approved the first time I applied.

Now I got inhalers, home oxygen therapy, and a tea extract to clear the mucus out of my lungs. I also asked for and got some prednesone. The tea extract helped but nothing else except maybe the prednesone and a few years later I walk in for my next 6 months checkup with that doctor, and his nurse checked my finger O2 and blood pressure. My O2 was in the mid 90s where it was closer to mid 80s and my blood pressure had dropped back to 120/75 and I felt fine and the only thing I was taking was the prednesone about 5mg a day. No oxygen or tea extract or inhalers. This is not the way it normally works and he was at a loss for words for what he was seeing. OK a few years later I start going down hill again and the last few years have been limiting.

Tried some TA65 and that seem to help a lot but it made me sleepy and it is expensive for me. Run across the article late last year on the rats and think there might be the answer to cure things up and give me more energy and it was cheap.

January 5th 2013 I get my olive oil in and the 99.95 SES C60 and throw it in there. About the end of January I decided to take a 1/4 teaspoon and feel it a few hours later. The next day I needed to take a propane torch and do some soldering on a copper pipe and lost control to the torch and ran the flame across the palm of my right hand as it fell and I grabbed for it. Boy that hurt but kept working and stopped a few hours later. Two hours after stopping the intense pain just went away and there was no reddening or blistering. I am thinking that's not right. The next day was a repeat with the torch of losing control of it and this time burned one finger of my left hand. Same pattern again with bad bad pain that leaves 4 or 5 hours later and no reddening or blistering. A few days later I notice the skin on my right hand where the torch got it it looks more like plastic than skin. A few days later and I notice the plastic looking skin is coming up like a clear bandaid, and underneath is new skin. The same process then for the finger on the left hand days later. Wow I thought I may be burn proof

One week between the first 1/4 teaspoon goes by and I decided to take a second 1/4, that night I go to get groceries and notice I am doing fine on air after crossing the parking lot and even feel "powerful" I yank the cart out of the cart line and I have lots of power more like 15 years earlier. Start going through the mostly empty store and noticed no air problems still, and decided to really push it with long strides and moving fast. No problems the energy was almost boundless that night. Now in the days afterwards I still felt better but felt the power slowly fading. Tried every other day dosing but that seemed to not work well at the time. Now I am taking about a full teaspoon twice a week and think I am going for once every 2 or three days next and see if I can maintain energy better. The downside for me is it might make the immune system more active. Good for most but not with arthritis. The lungs seem fine one day but not so great on others, but I have only been playing with this for 5 or 6 weeks. One more thing I have notice is increased alertness and memory recall at times.

If someone has a problem give them a choice and don't worry about what people think. They will always think what they think, and how much worse can it do if they are already dying LOL

[Andey]

That's pretty amazing Niner. I'm trying to understand why there's such a big difference between people who are reporting these pro-health effects attributed to C6O-oo, and others such as myself who haven't experienced anything.

My bench press at 8 or 9 reps max is still at 8 or 9 reps max, unchanged after 15 years. I still have a hard time breaking a 6:30 mile The granuloma on my right hand is still there, unaffected by the C60-oo. I still get a major endorphin rush after my workout while others have reported feeling less of an endorphin rush after their workout. Maybe it has to do with the evo used to prep my C60-oo. I bought it from one of the recommended vendors here and it wasn't peppery at all. Maybe I'll have better luck on my next batch which I'm preparing at home. Still, based on the significant increase in endurance you and some others have experienced, I'd expect to experience at least a smidgen of increased endurance, regardless of the evo quality. The fact that I don't bugs me and makes me wonder.. why??

I also didnt notice any difference on reps count in single weight liftings attempt, but definitely notice improvement in aerobic excercise fatique limit. I can run or swim a little bit faster for a little bit longer, and I dont think that this a placebo effect because I simply cannot repeat this performance without C60 (I have tried do off period)
Aerobic and anaerobic excercise are completely different species in fatique limit aspect.

P.S. You can notice difference if you know your alcohol drinking limits, for my experience they expand significantly with C60. I dont know though is it a great thing or not, it can be dangerous for alcohol addicted people.

Edited by Andey, 14 March 2013 - 08:53 AM.

[mikeinnaples]

As pure anecdote, I don't 'feel' stronger or more durable at all since starting C60. I did however notice the endurance in the gym via tangible results rather than anecdote. My intent was to test muscle fatigue/endurance under a constant load rather than raw strength, this is why I wasn't pushing to see if I could max out higher or run a specific distance, say a 5k, at a faster time.

I too am curious why people are experiencing different things. It is a given that we will only be able to speculate about it due to the wide variety of dosages and EVOO we have take/used. Not only that, each of us have lived different lives that may effect outcome differently.

Could the fact that I was a smoker for over a decade when I was younger or took statins for several years have something to do with the results I am getting now? Possibly, given what I know about statin related muscle damage and smoking in general.

[mikeinnaples]

On another note, I am interested in what would be optimal for cycling C60. My initial plans are to base my cycling off of a post Niner made a while back, though at a larger dosage. It made sense to me given his thoughts about the half life of C60 in our bodies, among other things.

Basically I was going to take 45mg over 3 days, followed by a month off. Rinse/Repeat

I have seen discussion on the subject pop up several times and in several places, so I wonder if it is something worth splitting off into its own thread. Thoughts?

[Marty D]

I have some c60oo on the way from California. Dosing is a question still up in the air. The idea of total saturation all the time is appealing but the concern of stem cell depletion is a little frightening. And the idea of cycling has a good feel since the carbon is, what was the word, external to the natural process. 45mg over 3 days seems like some of the carbon may possibly go unused since the experiments said something about the c60 passing through in a few hours. Feels like a smaller saturation dose over several days and then some down time. 8mg a day seems high end. R/R.

So the question is how long to saturation for loading over how quickly the system takes up the dose and whether or not down time is necessary to process the quantity saturated.

[mikeinnaples]

Interesting. I recall the discussion, but I don't recall seeing that stem cell depletion was probable.

Also, is it even possible to reach saturation on even a gram of C60?

[pleb]

Stem cell depletion is a new one I've never seen that mentioned before

Edited by pleb, 14 March 2013 - 05:02 PM.

[Marty D]

Didn't Anthony Loera do a really high saturation run? Just trying to find those numbers and the search is being difficult. So if you are interested in the 45mg loading phase that, Anthony's posts, might be a good place to start.

If you go to Turnbuckles's profile, click on the avatar, you can find good information regarding stem cell considerations.

Edited by Marty D, 14 March 2013 - 05:02 PM.

[Marty D]

A layman's explanation of stem cell differentiation on this page
http://www.longecity...on/page__st__60

[pleb]

yes Anthony took large amounts, he copied the rat protocol but increased to a human level which if i remember correctly was about a cup of C60-oo a day for the first week then at the same intermittent periods that were reported for the rat trails,

[mikeinnaples]

Actually a few things in that very thread is what I was referring to.

Saturation comment by Niner. I guess one problem I have is the definition of saturation in context of C60. Are we talking total saturation of every membrane? Seems to me it would require more, but maybe I am just having difficulty wrapping my head around how such a small amount of something (under a gram) could accomplish total saturation in a human.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry555671

The other regarding clearance of C60...
http://www.longecity...post__p__555777

Thoughts on dosing...
http://www.longecity...post__p__555747

Stem Cell differentiation / Epigenetics / Thoughts on method of action
http://www.longecity...post__p__549125
http://www.longecity...post__p__549247
http://www.longecity...post__p__549247
http://www.longecity...post__p__554539


I should probably stop posting links to the same thread, but that is basically my basis for what I posted.

Speaking of Anthony ...he hasn't posted in over 2 months. Did the C60 take over his body?

[pleb]

Actually a few things in that very thread is what I was referring to.

Saturation comment by Niner. I guess one problem I have is the definition of saturation in context of C60. Are we talking total saturation of every membrane? Seems to me it would require more, but maybe I am just having difficulty wrapping my head around how such a small amount of something (under a gram) could accomplish total saturation in a human.
http://www.longecity..._90#entry555671

The other regarding clearance of C60...
http://www.longecity...post__p__555777

Thoughts on dosing...
http://www.longecity...post__p__555747

Stem Cell differentiation / Epigenetics / Thoughts on method of action
http://www.longecity...post__p__549125
http://www.longecity...post__p__549247
http://www.longecity...post__p__549247
http://www.longecity...post__p__554539


I should probably stop posting links to the same thread, but that is basically my basis for what I posted.

Speaking of Anthony ...he hasn't posted in over 2 months. Did the C60 take over his body?

LOL yes that crossed my mind i thought has he kicked the bucket, (local expression for died)

Edited by pleb, 14 March 2013 - 07:01 PM.

[mikeinnaples]

Well at least I wasn't the only person thinking that...... hahaha

[pleb]

he's probably still sat on the loo from all that olive oil hehehe

[mikeinnaples]

he's probably still sat on the loo from all that olive oil hehehe

Tell me about it. The 25ml I took all at once initially completely wrecked my stomach.

[anagram]

Oh really?

[mikeinnaples]

Yeah 25ml of oil at once was too much for me with what I had eaten. The next two days I split it out across a couple of meals and had no issues.

[pleb]

the most i have taken at any one time is about 2 tea spoons full, my original home brew used extra virgin but tasted so bitter (a bit like chewing private leaves), i gave it away and have used a mild oil since,

[Kevnzworld]

Well at least I wasn't the only person thinking that...... hahaha

Hopefully he will be back. I think he's a little burned out after the Sarah V fiasco . I don't think he even sells C60 anymore .

Well at least I wasn't the only person thinking that...... hahaha

Hopefully he will be back. I think he's a little burned out after the Sarah V fiasco . I don't think he even sells C60 anymore .

[GVA]

That's pretty amazing Niner. I'm trying to understand why there's such a big difference between people who are reporting these pro-health effects attributed to C6O-oo, and others such as myself who haven't experienced anything........

P.S. You can notice difference if you know your alcohol drinking limits, for my experience they expand significantly with C60. I dont know though is it a great thing or not, it can be dangerous for alcohol addicted people.

Andey! My congratulations with your interesting observations! But such, similar effects of C60HyFn are known for us a long time ago and that has been confirmed also on small rats (see for example, http://dx.doi.org/10...tox.2008.01.005)

[mikey]

As I said, the only way the government would go after it is by going after someone who sells it for making medical claims, which is not happening with the US vendors.

But that doesn't mean they would ban it. They'd just bust the claim-maker.

The other thing that would make them go after it is if it caused certain harm - "bodies in the street," is what the FDA agent said.
It does not, so everyone can quit worrying.

Yes - worrying ages you.

Well at least I wasn't the only person thinking that...... hahaha

Hopefully he will be back. I think he's a little burned out after the Sarah V fiasco . I don't think he even sells C60 anymore .

Well at least I wasn't the only person thinking that...... hahaha

Hopefully he will be back. I think he's a little burned out after the Sarah V fiasco . I don't think he even sells C60 anymore .

May I please ask - what is the Sarah V fiasco?"

[pleb]

it could best be described as a slight altercation lol

do a search through the C60 threads you should find it:>) i don't have a link so can't post it for you,

Edited by pleb, 15 March 2013 - 11:30 PM.

[hav]

On another note, I am interested in what would be optimal for cycling C60. My initial plans are to base my cycling off of a post Niner made a while back, though at a larger dosage. It made sense to me given his thoughts about the half life of C60 in our bodies, among other things.

Basically I was going to take 45mg over 3 days, followed by a month off. Rinse/Repeat

I have seen discussion on the subject pop up several times and in several places, so I wonder if it is something worth splitting off into its own thread. Thoughts?

I think Anthony mentioned taking 3/4 of a cup of .8 mg/ml doses. I tried to match that over a longer time period to lower the daily dosage by loading up with a 45 ml/day jigger (36 mg c60) for a month then went to weekly dosing for about 3 months... my current dosing schedule is now once every other week.

The only possible negative I've noticed with my high dosing is that my triglycerides spiked up to 189 around the time I was dosing daily. Probably due to the olive oil. Levels were around 145 just 6 months earlier. After 3 months of weekly c60/oo dosing it was down to 165. But some of the change could have been due to discontinuing statins (due to muscle and cognition issues) between the more recent 2 tests. But then again, I also dropped my c60/oo dosing frequency during that time. I'll be testing again in about 4 months.

Howard

Edited by hav, 16 March 2013 - 12:39 AM.

[niner]

I think Anthony mentioned taking 3/4 of a cup of .8 mg/ml doses. I tried to match that over a longer time period to lower the daily dosage by loading up with a 45 ml/day jigger (36 mg c60) for a month then went to weekly dosing for about 3 months... my current dosing schedule is now once every other week.

It's worth noting that Anthony represents the outer limit of c60 dosing that's been reported here. No one else has taken as large a dose as Anthony that I'm aware of. Anthony later backed off from his megadose protocol. Another thing to keep in mind is that there was no relationship between dose and reported effects for people in this forum. In other words, we had people on very low doses who saw immediate and obvious effects, and we had people on huge doses who saw nothing. I think this mainly gets down to the fact that in order to see an obvious effect, you have to have particular health conditions or engage in particular forms of exercise. Even at that, without quantitation of the sort that MikefromNaples has recently posted, you might miss the exercise effects. Young healthy people who aren't gym rats should expect to feel nothing. There also appears to be a smaller subset of people who might be categorized as non-responders- They meet the criteria for people who should notice something, but don't. There is yet another group that sees effects, but only if they dose at relatively short intervals.

The upshot of all this is that it will be hard to arrive at an ideal dose from the experience of most people here, and indeed, there may well not be an ideal dose for everyone. It might be necessary to individualize one's dose. My approach has been to take only as much as I needed in order to maintain the effects I wanted. While I don't necessarily want the muscle fatigue reduction, I think that represents a level where ROS are being significantly reduced. I'm taking enough to maintain that state. In my case, that's 15mg once every month.

[Kevnzworld]

May I please ask - what is the Sarah V fiasco?"

The thread that was probably the craziest I've seen on longecity.
http://www.longecity...c60net-content/

[d4shing]

May I please ask - what is the Sarah V fiasco?"

The thread that was probably the craziest I've seen on longecity.
http://www.longecity...c60net-content/

Wow - I had no awareness of this but it is pretty spectacular. I can't imagine what this guy must've been thinking - "If I throw enough of a fit in public, then surely this woman in another country will give me 7 million dollars based on a poorly-drafted EULA that I can't even prove she agreed to!" If I publicly self-immolated like that I'd maybe spend some time away from the forums, too.

Edited by d4shing, 16 March 2013 - 04:12 AM.

[mikey]

May I please ask - what is the Sarah V fiasco?"

The thread that was probably the craziest I've seen on longecity.
http://www.longecity...c60net-content/

Gosh. Absolutely the silliest.

[mikey]

As far as banning the substance goes. It depends on how effective C60oo truly is. If it really keeps people healthy, then the FDA will be certain to ban it or harshly regulate it (or at least try).

On what basis would this occur? Is there a law that says the FDA is supposed to keep the public sick? This sounds like the story of the secret cabal of pharmaceutical companies that is suppressing the cancer cure that already exists so they can get filthy rich selling toxic chemotherapeutics.

Well, the reality is not that black and white but it is somewhat like that.

For instance, in the case of DMSO. In the early 60's there were over 300 studies with over 10,000 patient records showing some amazing medical applications. I have two friends with migraines and one with sinus headaches. If they apply DMSO to their head where it hurts the pain is gone in a few minutes.

60 Minutes did three shows on DMSO, they thought it was so important.




I had three torn ligaments, the anterior talofibular, calcanealfibular, and posterior talofibula - and a 30% tear in my Achilles after doing two back-to-back 8-mile race walks through Central Park with no training for it. A friend who competes invited me to do them and I knew my heart and lungs could handle it, so I did, resulting in the tears.

I was too busy doing travel for work to have the surgery to correct them for four months.

I applied DMSO to the areas two or three times a day during that four months to reduce pain, not knowing what was going to happen.

A week before surgery the surgeon had me do MRIs of the areas.

On viewing the MRIs, he said, "It's considered to be medically impossible, but without immobilization the ligaments and your Achilles healed perfectly, and you can quote me on that." He's Dr. Robert Joseph, West Hollywood, CA.

FDA banned further research on DMSO for specious reasons in 1965.

Studies on rabbits, dogs and pigs at extremely high doses - something like dozens of times what a human might ingest - showed that DMSO caused mild changes in the cornea that would cause, I think it was, slight near-sightedness.

Nothing like this had been seen in primates/humans - or at a reasonable dose, but FDA banned research on DMSO because it might harm the eyes.

Or is it because if everyone knew all the things that inexpensive DMSO helps/cures/improves it would save people billions of dollars - and cost big pharma big profits?

I've seen it shrink arthritic knuckles down to normal. It increases the rate of healing of soft tissue tremendously, as I experienced.

It reduces, pain, swelling and inflammation.

I know a 26-year old guy, Ph.D. in biochem, who was working for one of the big pharma companies that make HIV drugs.

He found out that they had much better HIV drugs in the pipeline, but weren't releasing them until they made all the money they could with the drugs that are on the market.

He quit, saying that this was not what he wanted to devote his life to and went for a Ph.D. in psychology the last time I spoke with him.

So, FDA is entirely complicit with big pharma - with a rotating door where some data showed that 52% of FDA administrative staff come from and go to drug company jobs that pay a lot more than they get paid at FDA.

For instance, Michael Taylor was a lawyer for Monsanto for $300k/year and wrote the papers to get FDA approval for bovine growth hormone.

Two years later, the papers arrived at his desk at FDA, where he was working for $75k/year.

A political group I worked with found this out and four Congresspeople jumped in and FDA moved him over to the Dept of Agriculture to cool things down.

It's a corrupt system.

And while I thought of creating a company to vend C60oo "For Research Purposes Only" just like Carbon did - before he did it - I don't want FDA to ever put a target on my forehead for any reason.

Suppressed cure for cancer? That does sound nutty.

However, Alzheimer's responds to coconut oil, but what doctor does anyone know who tells their patients about it?

Our medical system is corrupt because it's a profit-driven system.

A single payer "Medicare-For-All" would change this equation and likely remove a lot of the corruption, if not all.