3585 replies to this topic

[senso42]

ben, anyway we don' thave much time

you' re great!

[AgeVivo]

Hi Mind. Sorry I was out recently. Yes, I currently have 3 mice aged 18 month (+-1 month; need to check) at home. I could give them the mixture and see if they live up to age 2 (normal -), 2.5 (normal +), 3 (++) or more (+++).

Does anyone already have the right mixture (same as in the paper, as much as possible!!)?? Please PM me as I don't follow everything currenly. If you can send me the mixture that would be great. I could take some pictures from time to time and post them here such that you can be informed.

Best, AV.

How much more money would you need to increase your number of pet rats to 10 or 20 and maintain them for a few years (5 years presumably, if the C60 is a miracle substance, which I doubt)? We might be able to scrape together some money either here at Longecity, or maybe through Kickstarter, or petri-dish. In contrast to raising money for anti-aging and rejuvenation (which everyone should support, but they don't), this project might be a winner in the crowd-sourced funding scene because it gives people the hope of "popping a pill" for health and longevity, which seems to appeal to the mass psychology of humans.

Hi Mind,

I would do it in mice, not in rats; it is not the same, but is it an issue for you?

Solution a: testing it on my 3 [mid-] aged mice at home with no control -- I think it is perfect to have an idea of whether it works. If they live up to age 3 years, I would be very convinced that it works in mice and rats. If they don't, I would not be convinced that it is a big thing. With this solution, you just need to send the *right* mixture to give and I can readily start.
Solution b: find a normal lab to do it. You may try Stephen Spindler (although he is probably too busy with his many tests already) or find another lab that is correctly equiped and that does it on C57BL6 mice.
Solution c: developing DYI garages with other LongeCity members - I have a garage next to a large air conduct. I could *potentially* organize it to have many mice (I really prefer mice to rats, they consume less, take less space, etc, and I like mice even if they are not very intelligent). It would take me a good six months to organize is (need to adjust light and room temerature, have the "lab" delimited by plastic tissue and some pumps with filters to exchange the air sufficiently rapidly (I have done that in a lab a few years ago) -- quite tempting. If I was doing so, it would cost a little to organize of that, buy the mice and the food. I would do that solution if other well established persons [really] want to do the same: we could start representing a large power of lifespan tests.
Solution d: Mprize at home - we need say 20 persons (less if the effect is incredibly obvious as reported here) to have 2 cages at home (one control, one with C60). The difficulty is that it is a lot of participants who need to take care of them during several years; students who will move places in one or two years can not apply.

I suggest to start with solution a) now, due to the exceptional results reported, and to take a little time to think of an additional solution or not. Perhas that after a few weeks of solution a) I'll have an idea of wether the mice seem to do well or not, to suggest smthg else or not.

PS: I have seen email exchanges with the authors of the article about the errors identified in the article. They recognize having done some errors in the text/images, but they are serious authors and up to now there has never been difficulties in reproducing their published results. Due to the impressive results I would have expected the article to be fine-tuned so I must say I am still a little skeptical, but if we can replace nonscientific judgements by a test (in mice, in my case) we should not hesitate.

Best,
AV.

Edited by AgeVivo, 08 May 2012 - 09:53 PM.

[hav]

wasn' t it 5000 g in the study ?

I think you're right. It said "5.000 g". Probably meant 5,000 g. Mine goes from 1,000 to 4,000 rpm with a max rpc of 1,790. It will have to do.

Howard

[HappyPhysicist]

Ah, you are right. They must have meant 5,000 g. I would bet a 5 g centrifuge would be pretty expensive. Also, I can only fit 10 mL test tubes in centrifuge so if I start drinking larger quantities it is going to be quite a process.

Perhaps they went through all this trouble (spinning and filtering) just to make sure the were accurate with the dose. To do that they needed to 'over -aturate' the oil so to speak and then filter out all the undissolved C60 via the centrifuge and filter. I think in our case exact dosage in not overly critical so we can 'under-saturate' the oil and hope there is no undissolved C60 as Turnbuckle suggests.

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 09 May 2012 - 12:21 AM.

[HappyPhysicist]

AveVivo,

I think for as little as $300 or 25o euros you could make enough for lots of mice. I doubt you would have to make the batch exactly how it was done in the original paper. All I would suggest buying is a magnetic stirrer and 1 gram of 99.95% pure C60 fullerene.

If you can't afford it I would be happy to send you some or perhaps some one who is in France making it can send you some.

I would get some mice but chances are they are going to outlive me.

HP

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 09 May 2012 - 02:24 AM.

[revenant]

I've been looking around for a non toxic food grade deflocculant that can be used in oil with C60. I think I found something that may be useful, Carboxymethyl cellulose. http://en.wikipedia....ethyl_cellulose

I'm lost. What are you trying to achieve?

Oh, I was of the mind -erroneously- that a C60/water emulsion would be safe and expedient if the C60 was first dispersed into the water using carboxymethylcullulose to prevent aggregation into nC60. I did not realize that a lilpofullerene solution was critical.

Edited by revenant, 09 May 2012 - 01:10 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

HP,

Looks like you are definitely up and running with it.

Just a quick FYI for others who consider skipping the filter... i believe the filter will help prevent bacteria that can be introduced into the oil through condensation ... from getting into the final product.

I suggest not to consider skipping this step.

Cheers
A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197

[HappyPhysicist]

But wouldn't bacteria be present in the olive oil on everyone's kitchen shelves? I have always put tons of olive oil on my salads in the past.

[Anthony_Loera]

Very possible, however stirring olive oil for days on end, in an unprotected environment can contribute to bacterial growth which will not be found in sealed bottles being stored on cool shelves.

Its a precautionary step, specially if some folks here keep their magnetic stirrers on for long periods of time.

Cheers
A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197

[HappyPhysicist]

With water doesn't stirring inhibit bacterial growth? Is it different with oil?

Update: So I have spun my solution for an hour and I see no separation whatsoever. Moreover, I am using regular test tubes and when I pour then sample into the filter cup I am not sure If I am leaving the solution at the bottom behind or just pouring it in with the rest. Perhaps I need to suck it out of the test tube with a syringe.

My centrifuge is probably only producing around IK g's. I will try to find a lab in town that has a high speed centrifuge to see if it can produce anything different. If it can then I will upgrade my centrifuge. If not I am thinking of skipping this step. I can only spin about 50 mL at a time.

Has anyone else spun their samples? If so are you seeing any kind of separation?

I think my filter setup is working. The oil does seem to be going through the filter itself. At least most of it is.

[Krell]

I think my filter setup is working. The oil does seem to be going through the filter itself. At least most of it is.

Do you think a nylon syringe filter would work?

http://www.amazon.co...m=APLTX8IIKQ3DF

[HappyPhysicist]

It 'should'. I tried a PVDF filter and the oil would not budge. Get the largest diameter you can find. I might give these a try to. Someone on the steroid discussion board suggested using a calk gun with some modification to apply the pressure. The oil passes through my 90 mm cup filter at about one drop per second so you won't be able to do this by hand you will need something to apply the pressure. It would certainly be the cheapest way to go.

[Junk Master]

Did you guys see this?

http://owndoc.com/an...ral-anti-aging/

With a quote from this forum, our own Turnbuckle!

[HappyPhysicist]

Interesting. Sounds like they got the idea from this forum. I say the more power to them. Will the FDA allow this to be sold?

[Turnbuckle]

http://articlesandbl...anote-n162.html



Ukraine is about to launch the world's first nanotechnology water health drink with hydrated fullerenes or C60-HyFnsTOP


"Fullerene Water Solution" or "FWS" (formerly Omnium Water or "OW") on basis of aqueous solutions of hydrated fullerenes


DOSAGE:
The recommended scheme of single administration course of "FWS"
A portion of 20-50 ml (1-2 tablespoons), sip as follows:
- in the first 3-4 days - 3 times a day;
- in the next 3-4 days - 2 times a day; and,
- afterwards finish the balance of "FWS" - 1-2 tablespoons once a day.

I think this Ukrainian approach to dosing is a good idea. Start at the maximum and taper off. The rat study did this too, but the tapering off was by stretching out the interval. I went the other way and felt the drop off when I stopped.

[stephen_b]

Interesting. Sounds like they got the idea from this forum. I say the more power to them. Will the FDA allow this to be sold?

They could have attributed it properly.

[zorba990]

Interesting. Sounds like they got the idea from this forum. I say the more power to them. Will the FDA allow this to be sold?

Is this quote from the site true?

it is not “used up” by performing its antioxidant action because it can capture high-energy electrons all the way up to Beta-radiation level, reduce their energy in the C60 matrix and drain them by electrical instead of chemical means.

Might be some people in japan interested in that....

[Junk Master]

I'll be ordering and have a decent aerobic base to measure improvements against. Up to an hour plus per day running. Also, I've used Reservatrol at 3 Grams per day plus for a month before racing. Plus, CoQ10. Haven't used PQQ yet, but will do that after the C60.

I guess you could call me an amateur "mitchondriac." Just fascinated with them.

Will be reporting here first, of course.

[Junk Master]

BTW any thoughts on this company's rep?

[zorba990]

Interesting. Sounds like they got the idea from this forum. I say the more power to them. Will the FDA allow this to be sold?

Is this quote from the site true?

it is not “used up” by performing its antioxidant action because it can capture high-energy electrons all the way up to Beta-radiation level, reduce their energy in the C60 matrix and drain them by electrical instead of chemical means.

Might be some people in japan interested in that....

I did find this... http://www.sciencedi...041008X0900475X

[HappyPhysicist]

Is anyone here bidding on a centrifuge on ebay right now? I see one I like which would be an improvement over the one I have now but I don't want to get in a bidding war with anyone on this forum and raise the price needlessly.

[senso42]

Maybe my question is stupid but can we use this sort of centrifuge?

http://shop.ebay.fr/...&LH_TitleDesc=0

I know it' s for cooking but why not for our mixture?

[HappyPhysicist]

I am not sure how you would use that to separate your sample. These 'centrifuges' look like they are designed to mix things up, we want the opposite. Also, I doubt they rotate fast enough.

[zorba990]

Totally agree that an episodic dosing trial would be very interesting. IMO any anti-oxidant should be taken episodically. If you take two grams of vitamin C after a weight workout, or hard aerobic training, you reduce the compensatory adaptation that occurs, and as a result do not get as much benefit.

There's a fine line between stress inducing positive adaptation and overtraining.

And yet animals that make gram amounts each day seem to have no problem sprinting past any humans that might be around...
I look forward to this:
http://www.lewrockwe...di/sardi91.html

[malbecman]

I don't know the centrifugal force or volumes you are planning to spin but have you considered a benchtop centrifuge like one of these:

http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/B003WOKPF6

This one will hold 8 x 15ml test tubes and spins at over 1,300 G. There are a lot of similar products out there, even used ones at Labx.com

[Mind]

Interesting. Sounds like they got the idea from this forum. I say the more power to them. Will the FDA allow this to be sold?

IMO, the FDA will crush this, especially if it proves to be beneficial to human health.

[hav]

Regarding sources for C60, I tried enquiring on the fullerenesforless site that niner posted but never got a response back. Their online ordering consists of an online form that generates an e-mail request for quote.

Noticed that the fish study mentioned getting their C60 as a donation from SES Research. Price was pretty similar (slightly less) and online shopping cart order got 10 gms of 99.95% C60 to me in 4 days. Although this will be fun the 1st time through, hope we can eventually get it by the liter or pint premixed.

Btw, also got a bottle of Tunesian Chemlali on the way, which I think is what they probably used in the study. Curious how it compares to the Califiornia Bariani I usually use. I decided to go with the Tunesian for this seeing as it's lightly filtered compared to the Bariani I have on hand which is labled as unfiltered.

Howard

[HappyPhysicist]

Can you give a link for the Tunesian Chemlali oil? I could not find it. Right now I am using the olive oil I had in the kitchen. I just ordered some Tunisian oil form here:

http://www.zetouna.com/products.html

I got my 99.95 from SES also. Very straightforward and fast delivery.

[hav]

Sure. Ordered it from Alfonso Olive Oil in AZ:

http://alfonsooliveo...ls-tunisia.aspx

Probably a little over the top but it happens to be my middle name but no relation and I really like olive oil.

Howard

Edited by hav, 10 May 2012 - 10:17 PM.

[HappyPhysicist]

Well, you are going to be drinking a lot of it so it better be good. I am now drinking 20 mL a day of what should be about ~0.4 mg/mL. I am getting used to it. I have a syringe at my desk and as I work I take about 1 mL at a time throughout the day. I think by the end of this we are all going to be olive oil connoisseurs.