3585 replies to this topic

[mpe]

Totally agree that an episodic dosing trial would be very interesting. IMO any anti-oxidant should be taken episodically. If you take two grams of vitamin C after a weight workout, or hard aerobic training, you reduce the compensatory adaptation that occurs, and as a result do not get as much benefit.

There's a fine line between stress inducing positive adaptation and overtraining.

And yet animals that make gram amounts each day seem to have no problem sprinting past any humans that might be around...
I look forward to this:
http://www.lewrockwe...di/sardi91.html

You and me both

[smithx]

I am still concerned about the possible deleterious effects of C60 concentration in organs, and also of the likelihood that whatever someone produces and offers will still contain clumps.

I will offer to inspect C60 solution under an 800,000x scanning electron microscope, which has a resolution high enough to detect even small clumps of C60, in exchange for some of the C60 solution, and assuming that I can get access to the scope.

This scope has a limit of resolution of 0.6nm and C60 is about 1nm, so it should be possible to visualize clumps of as little as 2-4 molecules. It will be a small random sample, but if there's a lot of clumping, it should be quite obvious.

Anyone who is interested can PM me. Or if a potential commercial manufacturer is reading this and wants to differentiate their product, I suggest they do a similar microscopic study and publish the results.

[Turnbuckle]

I am still concerned about the possible deleterious effects of C60 concentration in organs, and also of the likelihood that whatever someone produces and offers will still contain clumps.

I will offer to inspect C60 solution under an 800,000x scanning electron microscope, which has a resolution high enough to detect even small clumps of C60, in exchange for some of the C60 solution, and assuming that I can get access to the scope.

This scope has a limit of resolution of 0.6nm and C60 is about 1nm, so it should be possible to visualize clumps of as little as 2-4 molecules. It will be a small random sample, but if there's a lot of clumping, it should be quite obvious.

Anyone who is interested can PM me. Or if a potential commercial manufacturer is reading this and wants to differentiate their product, I suggest they do a similar microscopic study and publish the results.

It seems that clumps are the ultimate fate of the C60. See Fig. 2-d of the rat study, which shows "C60 crystals containing macrophages."

Edited by Turnbuckle, 11 May 2012 - 11:24 AM.

[AdamI]

Is there a effective way to make clumps? If soo maybe the first mice study on C60 should be on clumps?

[Turnbuckle]

As long as it remains on the fringe, I think it will slip under the radar. If the rat experiments are replicated, then look out.

Exactly. Drug dogs will be trained to sniff it out. Anyone over a hundred will be a suspected user. Children will call them "oldies" and throw stones.

[HappyPhysicist]

Wondering how others are faring with the centrifuge. Mine is a cheap one that probably produces about 1000 g's and can only fit about 6 10 mL test tubes. I lose about 2 ml per test tube by the time I take out the top 9 mL and then filter it. So it is a lot of work for very little yield. Unless I spring for a bigger faster centrifuge I am considering skipping the centrifuge process altogether and just filtering. At least with filtering although it takes a long time I can probably filter 500 mL in a day with little effort.

[HappyPhysicist]

There are almost no studies on lipofullerene - which is what we are dealing with here. Lipofullerene gives the solution its ruby red colour.

In the rat paper the authors describe the color as 'purple'. My solution is coming out ruby red/ brown.

The resulting C60-olive oil solution is purple and contains 0.80 ` 0.02 mg/ml (n 6) as determined by HPLC [30] after appropriate dilution in the mobile phase. The chromatographic profile and the extracted spectra of these solutions are similar to those obtained with a control C60-toluene equimolar solution.

The difference might be due to the original color of the olive oil or perhaps the 5,000 g centrifuge is settling the 'green' componenets of the olive oil. Hopefully someone with a 5K g centrifuge will let us know soon what theirs looks like.

[HappyPhysicist]

So now the question is how long should one take C60 to approximate the duration it was given the rats? I presume the schedule would be scaled up to be relative to a human life span?

[revenant]

I know this may sound weird, but because of differences in relative mitochondrial densities, it many be possible that dosages may differ depending on altitude. As down-regulation of mitochondrial biogenesis has been observed at higher altitudes, perhaps those living in elevated ares would need less C60.

[HappyPhysicist]

So perhaps it would be good to store the C60/Olive oil in vacuum tight plastic containers.

[niner]

So perhaps it would be good to store the C60/Olive oil in vacuum tight plastic containers.

I'd use glass, metal, or ceramic. I'd be afraid that the C60 would migrate into the plastic, and I'd lose some, or that plasticizers would migrate out of the plastic and into the oil. Actually, it's not obvious how much you'd want to protect it. In order for the reaction to occur, Cataldo says you need some UV or heat or oxygen. If the environment was too protective, you might not get enough reaction. This is no more than an educated guess, though. I hope that someone figures out what the optimal chemical species is, and how to make it.

Edited by niner, 12 May 2012 - 07:01 PM.

[testerer]

The main japanese fullerene-producing company seems to be "VitaminC60 BioResarch Corporation", which have been using both water-soluble (since 2005) and oil-soluble (squalane-based, since April 2009) C60 for a long time now. It's wholly owned by Mitsubishi.
The two solutions (water and oil based) have been used extensively by many japanese cosmetics companies.

An example of oil-based cosmetic product, advised for use on anything from face to nails and hair: http://www.dr-produc.../derma/lf5.html
You can find many more by searching for "フラーレン　化粧品" (fullerene cosmetics) in google. Most use the solutions from VC60 corp.

[zorba990]

The main japanese fullerene-producing company seems to be "VitaminC60 BioResarch Corporation", which have been using both water-soluble (since 2005) and oil-soluble (squalane-based, since April 2009) C60 for a long time now. It's wholly owned by Mitsubishi.
The two solutions (water and oil based) have been used extensively by many japanese cosmetics companies.

An example of oil-based cosmetic product, advised for use on anything from face to nails and hair: http://www.dr-produc.../derma/lf5.html
You can find many more by searching for "フラーレン　化粧品" (fullerene cosmetics) in google. Most use the solutions from VC60 corp.

Some pictures:

http://www.vc60.com/...duct/index.html

[Anthony_Loera]

Hey HP,

There is a centrifuge i have seen that can do 1000ml per bucket, and compared to the Sigma ones, it is very cheap in pricing.

I am tempted to purchase it, and simply charge for the 1 hour centrifuge service, to folks aiming to have a liter or more of olive oil spun. Let me know if this interests the group, as it may help push me off the fence.

The filtering apparatus for 5 liiter batches is proving to be difficult, although i have been talking to a few folks that may have a resolution to it soon.

As far as i know, the taste does not change... when i compared Olive oil with carbon against Olive oil with C60... then again, maybe my taste buds are wrecked... but i doubt it.

Cheers
A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197

[rwac]

The main japanese fullerene-producing company seems to be "VitaminC60 BioResarch Corporation", which have been using both water-soluble (since 2005) and oil-soluble (squalane-based, since April 2009) C60 for a long time now. It's wholly owned by Mitsubishi.
The two solutions (water and oil based) have been used extensively by many japanese cosmetics companies.

An example of oil-based cosmetic product, advised for use on anything from face to nails and hair: http://www.dr-produc.../derma/lf5.html
You can find many more by searching for "フラーレン　化粧品" (fullerene cosmetics) in google. Most use the solutions from VC60 corp.

Some pictures:

http://www.vc60.com/...duct/index.html

But isn't squalene somewhat problematic in that it can cause allergies and such?

[niner]

But isn't squalene somewhat problematic in that it can cause allergies and such?

SqualEne is the unsaturated version, while squalAne is fully saturated. Both are produced in the skin, and at the concentrations they're used at in cosmetics, don't seem to be a problem with any sort of tox. I'd expect squalene to be more of a problem than squalane, if only because it would be oxidation-prone, but at any rate the Japanese products are using squlane.

[mpe]

Sounds good, hope your right.

[HappyPhysicist]

Just out of curiosity I added some C60 to MCT Oil. Thanks for the idea Hebbeh.

Within an hour it was noticeably purple. I still don't quite understand how Moussa got olive oil to be purple unless the centrifuge process precipitates the particulates that make olive oil green/yellow.

The prolongation of the lifespan of rats by repeated oral administration of [60] fullerene
Tarek Baati a, b, Fanchon Bourasset c, Najla Gharbi d, Leila Njim b, Manef Abderrabba e, Abdelhamid Kerkeni b, Henri Szwarc d, Fathi Moussa d, *

The resulting C60-olive oil solution is purple and contains 0.80 +/- 0.02 mg/ml (n 6) as determined by HPLC [30] after appropriate dilution in the mobile phase. The chromatographic profile and the extracted spectra of these solutions are similar to those obtained with a control C60-toluene equimolar solution.

It is well known that C60 and derivatives are prone to aggregate even in their best solvents [37]. The C60-olive oil solution used in this study can be considered as free of C60 aggregates because: 1- its colour is purple that is characteristic of C60 solutions while the colour of C60 aggregate-containing solutions are rather brown, which is true even for water-soluble derivatives [3]; 2 - it is freely and instantaneously soluble in toluene in contrast to C60 aggregate- containing solutions, which slowly dissolve even in the best solvents of C60. Besides, the concentrations of C60 in olive oil as determined by HPLC agree with those previously published by other authors [22].

The second paragraph is what started to get me a little worried. I am pretty sure the reason my olive oil is brown is because of its original green color. If you mix purple and green you will get brown. My 1000g centrifuge does not change the color of the solution.

Attached Files

•  MCT oil after one hour.jpg   79.05KB   6 downloads

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 14 May 2012 - 07:39 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Just out of curiosity I added some C60 to MCT Oil. Thanks for the idea Hebbeh.

Within an hour it was noticeably purple. I still don't quite understand how Moussa got olive oil to be purple unless the centrifuge process precipitates the particulates that make olive oil green/yellow.

The resulting C60-olive oil solution is purple and contains 0.80 ` 0.02 mg/ml (n 6) as determined by HPLC [30] after appropriate dilution in the mobile phase.

I've tried three oils:

Extra virgin turned a whiskey color.
Extra light turned magenta.
Almond oil ended up somewhere between these two. It started off a light magenta, then turned whiskey colored over two weeks, then got some of its magenta back after diluting it by half and putting it on a magnetic stirrer for two days. So it seems that some nC60 is being formed with time and concentration, which is at least partially reversible.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 14 May 2012 - 07:33 PM.

[Junk Master]

Just love the translation from the Japanese site--

"...fullerene has excellent penetration horny, protecting your skin firmly..."

Has anyone out there used a fullerene facial cream?

[revenant]

Here is a pdf that discusses the use of a temperature graident imposed by a dewar flask with liquid nitrogen to draw impurities out of the plasma-arc chamber resulting in a much higher yield of C60 per rod.

http://freepdfhostin.../4debaafe6e.pdf

We demonstrate remarkably enhanced yield of C_{60 fullerenes in an aerosol discharge chamber due to the additional presence of a strong spatial temperature gradient.}

[tintinet]

Hey HP,

There is a centrifuge i have seen that can do 1000ml per bucket, and compared to the Sigma ones, it is very cheap in pricing.

I am tempted to purchase it, and simply charge for the 1 hour centrifuge service, to folks aiming to have a liter or more of olive oil spun. Let me know if this interests the group, as it may help push me off the fence.

The filtering apparatus for 5 liiter batches is proving to be difficult, although i have been talking to a few folks that may have a resolution to it soon.

As far as i know, the taste does not change... when i compared Olive oil with carbon against Olive oil with C60... then again, maybe my taste buds are wrecked... but i doubt it.

Cheers
A

Circle me: https://profiles.goo...236572014252197

I'd rather not have to buy a centrifuge, so I'd be interested in using yours, Anthony.

[HappyPhysicist]

Anthony,

I'll pitch in to help purchase your centrifuge in exchange for discounted centrifuged solution. I can mix and ship the solution to you but the problem is that you are going to have to filter it also, which will add work on your end.

HP

[HappyPhysicist]

MCT solution is getting a little darker purple. After I am done spinning my latest batch of C60/Olive oil I will spin this.

Attached Files

•  Screen Shot 2012-05-15 at 10.37.08 AM.png   457.67KB   12 downloads

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 15 May 2012 - 02:39 PM.

[hav]

Anthony, I'd also be interested in a liter or two.

Got my Chemlali Olive Oil in over the weekend on Saturday. Prefiltered 100 ml and started spinning with 150 mg of C60. After about a half hour it looked pretty dark brown... like used crankcase oil. It's on day 4 now spinning in a beaker inside a ziplock bag with a cardboard box over it. I'll centrifuge and refilter this weekend. My unit holds six 15ml tubes and goes to 4,000 rpm. Thinking of letting it go 4 hours to make up for its lack of g's.

The Chemlai was a little lighter and smoother than the CA oil I already have but tasted almost identical on 1st impression. The aftertaste was a little on the sour side, however, compared to the CA. Also have some store-bought Celio we use for frying which is flat and thin tasting in comparison.

Howard

[Junk Master]

I'd be interested in two weeks worth, for sure.

[HappyPhysicist]

Anthony,

That might be a legal way to make money off of this endeavor. You could offer a mixing, spinning and filtering service. People can send you the C60 and Olive oil, all you do mix, spin, filter and send back. That way people won't have to invest in all the equipment and you are not selling anything, other than a service. Therefore the FDA has to keep their mitts off of you.

Heck, why am I giving this idea away? Why don't I do it?

HP

[niner]

There is a centrifuge i have seen that can do 1000ml per bucket, and compared to the Sigma ones, it is very cheap in pricing.

I am tempted to purchase it, and simply charge for the 1 hour centrifuge service, to folks aiming to have a liter or more of olive oil spun. Let me know if this interests the group, as it may help push me off the fence.

Anthony, how many g's can this thing do? It's going to take a lot of g's to pull out fullerene aggregates that are small enough to make it past a 0.2 micron filter. Olive oil is pretty viscous, and these particles are small. Just as a comparison, people use 7-9000 g's to purify mitochondria; they're on the order of 1-2 microns in size, and are in an aqueous solution. The smaller the particles get, the more thermal (Brownian) motion is going to dominate their behavior. Fullerene aggregates do have the advantage of fairly high density, though.

I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has ever seen a precipitate of any kind after prolonged ultracentrifugation of a 0.2 micron filtered fullerene oil solution. I think that centrifugation is probably overkill and that submicron fullerene aggregates will just be eliminated in the feces, but if you're going to do it, I think you will need a lot more than 1000 g's. They used 5K g's in the rat paper, FWIW.

[Turnbuckle]

I suspect the average centrifuge won't do much except for the big particles that won't be absorbed anyway, and even the filter might not do what you want if the particles start clumping up with time. Clumping may be a function of the oil, even if the concentration is low. The Bertolli Extra Light olive oil I used went to purple at .65 mg/ml and has stayed that way for weeks now. Almond oil at half the concentration tends to brown when it sits, and regains a more purplish hue when put on the stirrer.

[HappyPhysicist]

I agree, it is very unlikely that C60 will extend our lives, but likelihood is not the motivator. If that is what drives you then I suggest accounting for a career.

If possibilities excite you, then you are in the right place.

Moreover, given the toxicology studies performed so far, it is even more unlikely that this will harm us.