3585 replies to this topic

[niner]

Niner, as to grinding it, doesn't that just break the molecule into useless carbon? 

We have carbon arranged in a molecule with a specific configuration (12 pentagons, 20 hexagons) that has extraordinary characteristics. 

Wouldn't grinding it break up the molecule into simple carbon, which would have then lost all of those extraordinary characteristics?

 

No, grinding it just breaks the crystals (containing zillions of c60s) into smaller crystals containing sub-zillions of c60s.   To actually break the bonds between carbon atoms would take a lot of energy.   Getting it hot enough would do it.  (it would have to be pretty hot)

[Kalliste]

It isn't water soluble, so if it got in the lungs it would likely just sit there and do nothing or take some incredibly long amount of time to be broken down.

 

Niner, as to grinding it, doesn't that just break the molecule into useless carbon? 

 

We have carbon arranged in a molecule with a specific configuration (12 pentagons, 20 hexagons) that has extraordinary characteristics. 

 

Wouldn't grinding it break up the molecule into simple carbon, which would have then lost all of those extraordinary characteristics?

 

Break the molecules by hand? 

I'm pretty sure you don't need to worry about that unless you are using industrial strength pressing machinery or a heavy truckbomb to grind the stuff.

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 12 September 2014 - 05:31 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

Have no worries about the fragility of C60. It's been shot against a steel plate at 15,000 mph and survived. And calculations show that it becomes harder as you compress it, eventually becoming twice as hard as diamond.

 

Behaviour of a Bucky-ball under Internal and External Pressures

[resveratrol_guy]

It isn't water soluble, so if it got in the lungs it would likely just sit there and do nothing or take some incredibly long amount of time to be broken down.

 

Niner, as to grinding it, doesn't that just break the molecule into useless carbon? 

 

We have carbon arranged in a molecule with a specific configuration (12 pentagons, 20 hexagons) that has extraordinary characteristics. 

 

Wouldn't grinding it break up the molecule into simple carbon, which would have then lost all of those extraordinary characteristics?

 

So while I'm happy to hear niner's comments on how difficult C60 is to actually atomize, I'm also wary of the fact that aggregates might "sit there and do nothing" in the lungs. "Doing nothing" in the lungs means blocking the alveoli. So while it sounds like it's not easy to inhale accidentally, once it has been inhaled, it might take an indefinitely long period of time to dissolve into the blood stream and be excreted. Fortunately, taking c60oo will alleviate the negative effects of this problem.

 

"doesn't that just break the molecule into useless carbon?" -- In theory, no, because we should not expect a chemical change to occur from mechanical grinding. But it's much more complicated than that, in the sense that the mortar and pestel meet one another at various angles and velocities and with varying material composition. At some of those intersections, temperatures could briefly spike into the domain where C60 would react with something in its environment, or perhaps spontaneously dissociate. How likely is this to occur? What new compounds might form? Are these carcinogenic? I have no idea and never will. So in my ignorance I've concluded that I prefer to pay someone else to use a centrifuge.

 

And the idea of C60 aggregates getting stopped by a HEPA filter is somewhat disconcerting. On the one hand, it would be expected to reduce the cation population in the air, which is probably a good thing. On the other, such trapped C60 is basically a high-surface-area reaction substrate, thus effecting some degree of physical catalysis. Catalysis of what, exactly, depends on what's in the air (paint, cleaning solvents, mold, etc.) or leaching out of the AC condensing coils. Hopefully the reaction products would remain trapped in the HEPA, but who knows. Again, I'll pay someone for their centrifugation.

[niner]

So while I'm happy to hear niner's comments on how difficult C60 is to actually atomize, I'm also wary of the fact that aggregates might "sit there and do nothing" in the lungs. "Doing nothing" in the lungs means blocking the alveoli. So while it sounds like it's not easy to inhale accidentally, once it has been inhaled, it might take an indefinitely long period of time to dissolve into the blood stream and be excreted. Fortunately, taking c60oo will alleviate the negative effects of this problem.

 

"doesn't that just break the molecule into useless carbon?" -- In theory, no, because we should not expect a chemical change to occur from mechanical grinding. But it's much more complicated than that, in the sense that the mortar and pestel meet one another at various angles and velocities and with varying material composition. At some of those intersections, temperatures could briefly spike into the domain where C60 would react with something in its environment, or perhaps spontaneously dissociate. How likely is this to occur? What new compounds might form? Are these carcinogenic? I have no idea and never will. So in my ignorance I've concluded that I prefer to pay someone else to use a centrifuge.

 

And the idea of C60 aggregates getting stopped by a HEPA filter is somewhat disconcerting. On the one hand, it would be expected to reduce the cation population in the air, which is probably a good thing. On the other, such trapped C60 is basically a high-surface-area reaction substrate, thus effecting some degree of physical catalysis. Catalysis of what, exactly, depends on what's in the air (paint, cleaning solvents, mold, etc.) or leaching out of the AC condensing coils. Hopefully the reaction products would remain trapped in the HEPA, but who knows. Again, I'll pay someone for their centrifugation.

 

You're way over-analyzing this.  You are in more danger when you're walking down the street and a diesel truck drives by, or you are in the vicinity of a wood burning fireplace, stove, or campfire.  Submicron particulates are very unhealthy.  They are also all around us, to varying degrees.  In places that have bad air quality, they are the worst offenders.   I'm very much in favor of reducing our exposure to them, which is why I support transitioning away from coal burning and old-style diesel engines.  I engage in a lot of construction, remodeling, and woodworking as an avocation, all of which generate huge amounts of dangerous particulates.  I own a large collection of power tools, and the most expensive of all of them is my powered air-purifying respirator.   All this is to say that I'm very aware of the dangers of particulates and know something about them.   In the distant past I was an amateur pyrotechnician.  I ground various forms of black powder, fountain charges and rocket fuels using a mortar and pestle, as well as hammering them for hours in a ball mill.  They did not ignite from these processes.  A mortar and pestle is really a quite benign grinding tool- you aren't doing any significant chemistry with it.  (you wouldn't want to grind something that was shock-sensitive, of course.)    With all this as background, I can assure you that mild grinding (honestly, it's kind of like squishing Feta cheese) of c60 in a mortar is not harmful to the c60 nor does it create dangerous particulates.  It's fine to pay someone to make it.  You're paying for a variety of things, but centrifugation isn't one of them, or shouldn't be.  Once the material is filtered to 220 nanometers, there is no point in centrifuging it.  There is nothing left that any normal lab centrifuge would be capable of removing. 

[sthira]

With all this as background, I can assure you that mild grinding (honestly, it's kind of like squishing Feta cheese) of c60 in a mortar is not harmful to the c60 nor does it create dangerous particulates.

What grinding may do, however, is waste the c60. When I've ground it with a mortar and pestle a lot if residue remains and is then unused in the olive oil. So I've stopped grinding and just pour it in and now wait longer for the c60 to dissolve in the oil.

Has anyone tried mixing it into castor oil for skin or hair care applications?

[niner]

 

With all this as background, I can assure you that mild grinding (honestly, it's kind of like squishing Feta cheese) of c60 in a mortar is not harmful to the c60 nor does it create dangerous particulates.

What grinding may do, however, is waste the c60. When I've ground it with a mortar and pestle a lot if residue remains and is then unused in the olive oil. So I've stopped grinding and just pour it in and now wait longer for the c60 to dissolve in the oil.

Has anyone tried mixing it into castor oil for skin or hair care applications?

 

Yeah, I stressed out over the wastage for a while, but I don't think the amount that you lose is really that much, if you're careful.   A gram of c60 is over two and a half years worth, at the rate I use it, something like 13 cents a day if you use a high purity grade.   The cost of the whole procedure is dominated by the expense of a good stirrer, filters, olive oil, and your time.  That's my rationalization...

 

I don't know if anyone has used castor oil, but compared to other vegetable oils, it has some very unusual chemistry.  The fatty acid component is ~90%  ricinoleic acid, which is like oleic acid with a hydroxyl beta to the double bond.  It would probably react with c60, but it would be a chemistry experiment, and if used in humans, a Guinea pig scenario.

[resveratrol_guy]

You're way over-analyzing this.  You are in more danger when you're walking down the street and a diesel truck drives by, or you are in the vicinity of a wood burning fireplace, stove, or campfire.  Submicron particulates are very unhealthy.  They are also all around us, to varying degrees.  In places that have bad air quality, they are the worst offenders.   I'm very much in favor of reducing our exposure to them, which is why I support transitioning away from coal burning and old-style diesel engines.  I engage in a lot of construction, remodeling, and woodworking as an avocation, all of which generate huge amounts of dangerous particulates.  I own a large collection of power tools, and the most expensive of all of them is my powered air-purifying respirator.   All this is to say that I'm very aware of the dangers of particulates and know something about them.   In the distant past I was an amateur pyrotechnician.  I ground various forms of black powder, fountain charges and rocket fuels using a mortar and pestle, as well as hammering them for hours in a ball mill.  They did not ignite from these processes.  A mortar and pestle is really a quite benign grinding tool- you aren't doing any significant chemistry with it.  (you wouldn't want to grind something that was shock-sensitive, of course.)    With all this as background, I can assure you that mild grinding (honestly, it's kind of like squishing Feta cheese) of c60 in a mortar is not harmful to the c60 nor does it create dangerous particulates.  It's fine to pay someone to make it.  You're paying for a variety of things, but centrifugation isn't one of them, or shouldn't be.  Once the material is filtered to 220 nanometers, there is no point in centrifuging it.  There is nothing left that any normal lab centrifuge would be capable of removing. 

 

 

Very good answer. I had forgotten that C60 was not really "new" in the sense that it appears naturally in soot. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a good video of how to manufacture c60oo properly, apart from this one. It would be useful to know what people think of his techniques (aeration, materials, equipment, stirring time, etc.). If anyone wants to post another video of their own setup, that would be even better.
 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 14 September 2014 - 08:45 PM.

[sthira]

A gram of c60 is over two and a half years worth, at the rate I use it, something like 13 cents a day if you use a high purity grade.

Geez, I wonder if I'm overdoing it. I go through 0.5g of c60 into 750ml of one of Amphora's super-duper high polyphenolic olive oil bottles in about six months. I've gone through four bottles in two years. I use a tablespoon a few times per week. I'm not conscious of any noticeable effects -- positive or negative -- that this experimental, untested, unknown substance is having on my biology. I'm rolling the dice with c60 -- like we all are rolling the dice with c60oo -- and we hope we're not doing any long term damage to our futures. I consider it gambling. I admit sometimes I feel stupid and reckless. But I have at least been testing my blood for abnormalities (kidney and liver function, thyroid function, blood sugar, blood counts, cholesterol, testosterone, and all my numbers "look fantastic", direct quote from my doctor. My blood levels have essentially remained stable in my two years of gambling with c60 in olive oil). I just ordered another gram. But.... I'm still uneasy about it.

I don't know if anyone has used castor oil, but compared to other vegetable oils, it has some very unusual chemistry. The fatty acid component is ~90% ricinoleic acid, which is like oleic acid with a hydroxyl beta to the double bond. It would probably react with c60, but it would be a chemistry experiment, and if used in humans, a Guinea pig scenario.

If I mixed castor oil with c60 would the c60 penetrate the skin?

[niner]

 

A gram of c60 is over two and a half years worth, at the rate I use it, something like 13 cents a day if you use a high purity grade.

Geez, I wonder if I'm overdoing it. I go through 0.5g of c60 into 750ml of one of Amphora's super-duper high polyphenolic olive oil bottles in about six months. I've gone through four bottles in two years. I use a tablespoon a few times per week. I'm not conscious of any noticeable effects -- positive or negative -- that this experimental, untested, unknown substance is having on my biology. I'm rolling the dice with c60 -- like we all are rolling the dice with c60oo -- and we hope we're not doing any long term damage to our futures. I consider it gambling. I admit sometimes I feel stupid and reckless. But I have at least been testing my blood for abnormalities (kidney and liver function, thyroid function, blood sugar, blood counts, cholesterol, testosterone, and all my numbers "look fantastic", direct quote from my doctor. My blood levels have essentially remained stable in my two years of gambling with c60 in olive oil). I just ordered another gram. But.... I'm still uneasy about it.

I don't know if anyone has used castor oil, but compared to other vegetable oils, it has some very unusual chemistry. The fatty acid component is ~90% ricinoleic acid, which is like oleic acid with a hydroxyl beta to the double bond. It would probably react with c60, but it would be a chemistry experiment, and if used in humans, a Guinea pig scenario.

If I mixed castor oil with c60 would the c60 penetrate the skin?

 

I don't know that you're overdoing it, but without noticeable effects, you don't have much of a guide.  C60 is fixing a variety of brokenness in me, and it really doesn't take much to accomplish it.   The one effect of c60oo that I seem to have the most difficulty with is the anti-eczema effect.  It's sensitive to how I make the c60oo- If I don't allow oxygen exposure as part of the process, I don't get the activity.  It's also sensitive to storage conditions in ways that I don't fully understand.  C60oo that sits around at room temperature and with some oxygen exposure seems to lose the effect over a few months.  Chasing this particular effect has led me to increase my doses, but if it wasn't for that, I'd probably be taking about 15-20mg/month.   As it is, I'm using more like 30-35mg/month.   I think that the effects that suggest improved mitochondrial function are the ones that will have the most impact on longevity, and they are the ones that don't require a large dose.  If you feel reckless at your current dose, you could cut it down, probably by a factor of four, and still get a significant benefit, IMO.  If there's a dark side to c60oo, you'll be in less danger with a lower dose, and there are plenty of Guinea pigs out there taking more. 

 

I'm not crazy about the castor oil idea, on a risk/reward basis.  Olive oil by itself doesn't penetrate skin very well, and this probably applies to other similar vegetable oils.  Coconut oil, with its shorter chain fatty acids, may or may not be different.  It might be possible to improve the absorption of olive oil by mixing it with some sort of emulsifier.  You'd probably be better off using something like a homemade version of Skinceuticals C/E ferrulic and/or retinoids and sunscreen.  That's all stuff with known behaviors.  Topical c60 raises yet another question about photochemistry.  You don't want it creating radicals when hit by UV.

[Clacksberg]

When people talk about things getting stuck in the lungs - what ever happened to good old Cilia action??

[niner]

When people talk about things getting stuck in the lungs - what ever happened to good old Cilia action??

 

If the particles are fine enough, they can get deep into the alveoli, and cilia are unable to remove them.  The start of the dangerous size is around 10 micrometers, and the smaller they get, the more dangerous they become if they get past the cilia.

[Kalliste]

I noticed two small bumps on my middle toes a few days ago.

I only mention it because something similar was noticed on the joints of the rats that are kept on C60 by our local rat lover.

Since they look much the same and don't hurt I doubt it's anything bad. Two years ago I had a similar growth on my left ear that solidified and was harmless according to the doctors.

I have been taking ice baths recently and I take MitoQ, but that's the only "new" stuff I do aside from C60.

 

(3-5ml once every week currently)

[niner]

I noticed two small bumps on my middle toes a few days ago.

I only mention it because something similar was noticed on the joints of the rats that are kept on C60 by our local rat lover.

Since they look much the same and don't hurt I doubt it's anything bad. Two years ago I had a similar growth on my left ear that solidified and was harmless according to the doctors.

I have been taking ice baths recently and I take MitoQ, but that's the only "new" stuff I do aside from C60.

 

(3-5ml once every week currently)

 

Are they on the skin, or are they something underneath that you can feel through the skin?   I have a wart on the side of one of my toes at the moment.   It's growing very slowly compared to other warts I've had prior to the use of c60.  I've been meaning to get some salicylic acid to get rid of it, but it's really tiny- not very noticeable. 

[Kalliste]

Here is a picture of my filthy foot. It's the two middle toes. Palpating carefully I think they are underneath and very close to the joints in the toe. But I'm an amateur and as I said before this happened in the past but not at a joint. They feel pretty solid. I'm pretty sure they are not from any shoe, I've spent the summer walking barefoot or with sandals that don't touch the toe.

 

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 19 September 2014 - 07:16 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

Here is a picture of my filthy foot. It's the two middle toes. Palpating carefully I think they are underneath and very close to the joints in the toe. But I'm an amateur and as I said before this happened in the past but not at a joint. They feel pretty solid. I'm pretty sure they are not from any shoe, I've spent the summer walking barefoot or with sandals that don't touch the toe.

 

Normally I wouldn't think twice about this, because we all have various skin pathologies which won't magically disappear because we're taking c60oo. But because you mentioned the similarity to rat results, I'd say it's worth a trip to the dermatologist in order to have them excised (and what about the similar spot in the middle of your foot, between the vessels, and the other spot at the base of your small toe?). In most offices, it's standard operating procedure to send excised tissue for biopsy in order to look for cancer. If you could make a special note that you want maximum possible details (e.g. fibrosis, vascular damage, etc.) then perhaps you can learn more about what this thing might be.

 

While it doesn't look like cancer to me, I think it's worth at least knowing what these things are, because perhaps humans will have more problems with them than rats. That said, I don't recall any other posts mentioning these, and I have none myself. Granted, they might have nothing at all to do with c60oo. The joint association makes me think of an autoimmune flare up, which might actually be a good thing if it means that your white cells are going on a rampage.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 19 September 2014 - 02:47 PM.

[niner]

I don't know what they are, but I'd be pretty surprised if they were cancerous.  They don't look at all like cancer to me.   I doubt that a dermatologist would excise them unless you're paying out of pocket.  They look pretty benign.  They probably aren't related to c60.

[Kalliste]

I'll update if anything weird happens. I'm out of C60 now and will be sticking to MitoQ for a while. Since they are "Bilateral" I also doubt it's anything malicious. More likely some weird growth of fibrous tissue like the pea that grew in my ear.

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 20 September 2014 - 06:08 AM.

[tintinet]

"Knuckle pads" perhaps?

 

 

[niner]

Meant to upvote tintinet for a good find, and hit the down arrow by accident.  Would someone upvote him to correct the error?  Thanks.  Why does this brain damaged voting system not let you change your vote???

[Kalliste]

Good find. It's probably unrelated to C60 but since the rat guy noticed something similar I felt compelled to report it.

I forgot to add I've also been using colloidal gold and a litte colloidal silver.

I've been cramming my toes against the end of the bathtub when I take cold baths too, will stop with that.

Lets hope it stays benign and don't touch my fingers :O

 

When I perform dental examinations I often see this inside the mouth of people who are bruxists or who chew a lot of gum. It's called Tori Mandibulae, some people need surgery after a few years, when it begins to interfer with mastication.

[Kalliste]

Come to think about it I crack the knuckles of my toe quite a lot.

[sofaking]

I have tori and it's not because I grind or clench or chew gum, which is what dentists all insist. It's because I had braces which made my teeth beautifully straight but totally disregarded my bite. There is constant tension in my jaw joint because the lower jaw sits further back than it is was naturally meant to, and this tension/trauma seems to send an epigenetic signal to build more bone which is all out of whack. Some people with tori do grind their teeth, but that is usually a stress reaction to an uncomfortable bite. It is the stress of the poor bite that drives the tori and also the grinding, it is not the grinding itself. Lots of people with tori do not grind/clench; however they are all told to use mouth guards and bite plates, which inevitably lead to grinding and clenching as there is a new foreign stressor in the mouth (not to mention the toxins leached from the plastics in the guard). 

 

/end of dental rant

[Kalliste]

Tori are a forgotten part of the dental health, many dentists don't even notice them. The general population is even less aware, most only notice them when they forcibly obstruct mastication. Anyway, that is seriously OT by now.

 

Back to C60.

For what it's worth I've mailed some local researchers who are in the area of toxicology and nano and asked them if I could be of use for science. Will report back if anything comes out of this.

[Astroid]

Quick update, started on bottle #3. Nothing remarkable to report...feel fine. I am trying it on a nail fungus on a finger as well...see how that goes. So far...I *think* I might see an improvement...been fighting it for 3 years or so...hopeful.

 

Consider Gallium Nitrate.. from www.galliumnitrate.com 

 

It kills fungus and bacteria. One can drink it also.. diluted to 1CC / 100 lb body weight.. I use it in my nasal Neti pot.. along with Alkalol and the salt.

[Kenbar]

 

Quick update, started on bottle #3. Nothing remarkable to report...feel fine. I am trying it on a nail fungus on a finger as well...see how that goes. So far...I *think* I might see an improvement...been fighting it for 3 years or so...hopeful.

 

Consider Gallium Nitrate.. from www.galliumnitrate.com 

 

It kills fungus and bacteria. One can drink it also.. diluted to 1CC / 100 lb body weight.. I use it in my nasal Neti pot.. along with Alkalol and the salt.

 

Thanks, it is looking more like I will need to consider other ways to solve the nail issue. C60 does not look like it is working after all...but, it looks to me like the problem might be more a split nail at this point...one part seems to grow over the lower part. I have cut and filed it back several times now with no good results..

 

In other news...I have no news...Still taking C60 daily with nothing good/bad to report. Still feel fine...look the same..ish.

 

I have been playing with DMSO...diluted way down with water (maybe 5~10% DMSO) and applying it to my face (5~6 time each day). Seems to help keep my face clear and...seems to have reduced wrinkles/crows feet. Even looks to have soften wrinkles on my forehead. Also it seems to have reduced the size of pores on my nose some. I have also been adding a few drops of bird vitamins (sold at Walmart) to the mix as well...can`t say if it does anything more than DMSO and water. But anyways, beauty is not my goal at all...need a head/body transplant for that...only time will tell if anything I'm doing will effect life span. That, or better rat/animal studies. None the less the DMSO does seem to make me appear younger...but probably a fake out younger...inside the clock is likely ticking away like normal...the devil hunting for me.

 

I have also been drinking a very diluted amount of DMSO (same, more less 5~10%) with my normal supplements...morning and evening. Most often mixed in carrot juice. My thinking was/is that it might cause more of the vitamins/supplements to be absorbed. No ill effects to report...I feel relaxed...perhaps more than normal...but it could be other factors.

[Astroid]

Check my introduction post as I attached some health tips I've researched.. MSM-Sulfur comes from DMSO.. it is the 5th most important element in your body.. it is in every cell membrane.. and allows water and O2 to penetrate the cells.. for chemical exchanges.. everyone is deficient.. one needs 4,000 mg a day normally.  It helps reduce inflammation and pain.  They give it to race horses.. so that is a good source.. I take 1 rounded teaspoon 2 x day.. for pain.. and give it to my German Shepherd.. she has no problem eating it in her food.

 

To fight ageing.. I think you have to figure out what to fight first.. specifically.  Sugar and Inflammation are two of the big issues.. especially for heart attacks, strokes, diabetes.  

 

I focus on deficiencies first.. that is the root cause of most issues.. it is not just age.  

[niner]

Let's try to keep this thread on topic- it's supposed to be about c60.  Gallium nitrate and DMSO discussions should be in their own thread.

[Kalliste]

Agree.I think some users are writing a lot about a little here lately.

[SIRT1]

... C60 is fixing a variety of brokenness in me...

 

 

 

 

like?

 

 

... It might be possible to improve the absorption of olive oil by mixing it with some sort of emulsifier...

 

 

good idea..

 

Monoolein would probably be suitable ( the body makes it digesting olive oil).

 

Another way to have less risk of aggregation is to take it with some extra olive oil.

 

 

the thing is, i doubt the oil binds to the C60, so as it travels thru the body it separates from the oil...

 

 

 

Edited by SIRT1, 25 November 2014 - 09:47 AM.