3585 replies to this topic

[pone11]

Thanks Niner, I spoke with her yesterday and she said she is doing great. She has done more around the house in the past 2 weeks than she has in a year. Baking and cleaning stuff that she has struggled with in the past no longer exhaust her. She is able to go to the store on her own with out assistance loading and unloading groceries. She says it takes her awhile yet she is able to do it on her own. She also states that she goes to bed at night sleeps straight though wakes feeling rested.

 

She still uses the oxygen however she is not as reliant and she is more active and seems to have more energy. If it is a placebo effect to heck with it she is happy and her quality of life is greatly improved. In april she goes to see the dr for routine test will let you know what the results are.

 

She is sending me fudge for the holidays woo hoo!!!  

 

Just curious have any of you doing these anecdotal reports thought to get an oxidative stress panel before and after C60 therapy?   

 

The point is to see if there are explicit effects on the antioxidants that are key in these systems, like glutathione (and associated enzymes), super oxide dismutase, catalase, etc.

 

Just observing the levels of glutathione might be extremely interesting by itself.     If you show highly depleted glutathione before C60, and then a few months into C60 your glutathione returns to normal levels, that certainly suggests that some stress has been taken off the systems that are fighting oxidative stress.   Pairing that hard data together with the subjective symptoms would be MUCH more powerful self-experimentation than just reporting how you feel.

 

This is an area with very little clinical research yet.   We have one animal study, and what's strange about that study is that the rats fed just olive oil (without C60) lived almost twice as long as well.   So if you want to be on the bleeding edge and use yourself as a study participant, measurement of metabolites before and after the C60 challenge would just be basic common sense use of the scientific method.

Edited by pone11, 25 December 2014 - 03:24 AM.

[pone11]

 

 

They are all being created by small companies. This is a niche product being produced by a cottage industry. Even SES is as far as I can tell a small company even the best grades of oil and fullerenes are open to interpretation as to what is the best.
Even the stuff used in the Baati rat trails was probably off the local supermarket shelf.
How much quality control do you need with two ingredients ?

 

What about a virus, bacteria, or carcinogen that might hide inside the C60 structure?   It might make a nice delivery system.

 

 

 

Nope. Apart from the difficulty of getting anything inside the cage, there is very little room. A large ion, or a few hydrogen atoms, maybe, whereas the average virus might have a billion atoms. You'd have more luck putting C60 in a virus than putting a virus in C60.

 

 

I really made the wrong point, and sorry for throwing out a silly random idea.   The real point is that when a very small company (with a handful of employees and not very deep pockets) creates a food, vitamin, or other substance that will be ingested, you don't have any real guarantees that they are testing the substance at many different points in their process to find out if they introduced something harmful.   That means testing the inputs, testing the manufactured outputs, and then sacrificing some of the final product periodically to see if anything bad happened while in storage.   Big companies test for bacteria, decline in strength of the primary ingredient, heavy metals, etc etc.   Who can afford to spend $10K on these tests every few weeks when the company is only generating maybe $100K of profits on $1M of sales?

 

As a case in point, remember in 1989 when there was a scare where bad manufacturing processes contaminated L-Tryptophan in the US, resulting in 37 deaths and 1500 permanent disabilities from an outbreak of eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS).  And that was done with a large Japanese manufacturer who probably did have good quality controls.   The same kind of disaster could easily happen with a small company producing leading edge supplements.   No one would ever figure out the source because there are too few people who would come down with the disease.

[Logic]

Would you consider someone with COPD to be under oxidative stress? The reason I ask is I gave some to my mom she has COPD and has been taking it since Thanksgiving.

 
Although giving your mom with COPD C60oo only, provides a valuable data point on C60oo, I feel its more important to actualy try and 'cure' her?
 
That said; I suggest you look into GHK and GHK-Cu as this substance looks as if it can undo the epigenetic changes seen in COPD and results in the growth of normal, functional cells, as well as fixing many other age associated ailments.
The evidence is somewhat thin atm, but very interesting:
http://www.longecity...c-regeneration/

Another substance that may be a great help, but not a cure is ITPP and perhaps IP6:
http://www.longecity...y-to-tis/page-2

Edited by Logic, 25 December 2014 - 11:09 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

 

They are all being created by small companies. This is a niche product being produced by a cottage industry. Even SES is as far as I can tell a small company even the best grades of oil and fullerenes are open to interpretation as to what is the best.
Even the stuff used in the Baati rat trails was probably off the local supermarket shelf.
How much quality control do you need with two ingredients ?

 

What about a virus, bacteria, or carcinogen that might hide inside the C60 structure?   It might make a nice delivery system.

 

 

 

Nope. Apart from the difficulty of getting anything inside the cage, there is very little room. A large ion, or a few hydrogen atoms, maybe, whereas the average virus might have a billion atoms. You'd have more luck putting C60 in a virus than putting a virus in C60.

 

 

I really made the wrong point, and sorry for throwing out a silly random idea.   The real point is that when a very small company (with a handful of employees and not very deep pockets) creates a food, vitamin, or other substance that will be ingested, you don't have any real guarantees that they are testing the substance at many different points in their process to find out if they introduced something harmful.   That means testing the inputs, testing the manufactured outputs, and then sacrificing some of the final product periodically to see if anything bad happened while in storage.   Big companies test for bacteria, decline in strength of the primary ingredient, heavy metals, etc etc.   Who can afford to spend $10K on these tests every few weeks when the company is only generating maybe $100K of profits on $1M of sales?

 

As a case in point, remember in 1989 when there was a scare where bad manufacturing processes contaminated L-Tryptophan in the US, resulting in 37 deaths and 1500 permanent disabilities from an outbreak of eosinophilia-myalgia syndrome (EMS).  And that was done with a large Japanese manufacturer who probably did have good quality controls.   The same kind of disaster could easily happen with a small company producing leading edge supplements.   No one would ever figure out the source because there are too few people who would come down with the disease.

 

 

Oh, it's worse than that. People are taking C60/EVOO for longevity based on a 6 month treatment where 6 rats lived longer. And now some anecdotal reports from just a few dozen users suggests that it's good for various things and not particularly dangerous. Which is all pretty minimal. So if you have concerns about QC, you should certainly wait for a big company to get into the act. In fact, the principles in the rat experiment filed a patent application and negotiated a deal with a Japanese company, so it might not take that long. Of course, it was also a Japanese company responsible for that tryptophan scare you mentioned, so that might not be too comforting.

 

In addition, you might not want to buy C60 from a certain Russian company.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 25 December 2014 - 12:05 PM.

[pleb]

Hi Pone11 .
A couple of points on this. The rats fed OO lived 18 per cent longer not nearly twice as long. That was the C60-OO rats.
I understand your concern but even the companies that are selling this are using exactly the same ingredients as those that produce it at home. all of us are useing two commercially produced items not mixing a number of different or refined chemicals. Other than perhaps that the company producing the C60 are filtering correctly at that stage. And we are dealing with a mineral here not an organic substance. I would think that SES do get there process and filtration right and grade the C60 accurately.
The other is A commercially produced olive oil available from almost any shop or super market. and there doesn't appear to be a absolute measure either in amount taken or exact mixing percentages. a wide variation appears to give similar results for those using it.
I also have a small amount of COPD. and suspect logic is correct in that it is not cured but an increase in oxygenation and reduction in ros are making up for the problem.and effecting the symptoms.

Edited by pleb, 25 December 2014 - 12:25 PM.

[pleb]

Hey turnbuckle. You forgot to mention the Japanese. Biochemist who recently resigned and the other who committed suicide over the stem cell fiasco. :>)

Edited by pleb, 25 December 2014 - 12:44 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Hey turnbuckle. You forgot to mention the Japanese. Biochemist who recently resigned and the other who committed suicide over the stem cell fiasco. :>)

 

That's no more relevant than the tryptophan incident, but still, my own experiment with treating my skin with vinegar suggests there is something to the Japanese research. I have no way of determining if it is creating stem cells out of somatic cells, but if C60 is causing the differentiation of stem cells, then the two should be synergistic. The most interesting result--a couple of weeks after I began an increased weekly dosage of C60 and a biweekly vinegar treatment, the back pain that had bothered me for months suddenly vanished. A coincidence perhaps, and if not, perhaps it was entirely the higher dose of C60. But I will continue with the vinegar as the effect on my skin is remarkable.

[pleb]

I know it isn't that's why I posted it and put a smiley on at the end.

One of the treatments for scarring is related to the acid in lemons applied as a gell it may be your getting similar results from the acid in vinegar.

[pone11]

Hi Pone11 .
A couple of points on this. The rats fed OO lived 18 per cent longer not nearly twice as long. That was the C60-OO rats.
I understand your concern but even the companies that are selling this are using exactly the same ingredients as those that produce it at home. all of us are useing two commercially produced items not mixing a number of different or refined chemicals. Other than perhaps that the company producing the C60 are filtering correctly at that stage. And we are dealing with a mineral here not an organic substance. I would think that SES do get there process and filtration right and grade the C60 accurately.
The other is A commercially produced olive oil available from almost any shop or super market. and there doesn't appear to be a absolute measure either in amount taken or exact mixing percentages. a wide variation appears to give similar results for those using it.
I also have a small amount of COPD. and suspect logic is correct in that it is not cured but an increase in oxygenation and reduction in ros are making up for the problem.and effecting the symptoms.

 

Sorry, I was using the maximum lived rat in each group.   By end of month 38 all of the water fed rats died.   By end of month 58 all of the olive oil rats died.   The rats fed C60 + OO lived up to 66 months (but that might have been longer had they not terminated experiment).    

 

What were the average numbers for the three groups?

 

Is there a full copy of the study up somewhere without paying $40 for it?

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

Is there a full copy of the study up somewhere without paying $40 for it?

 

 

I posted it in response to your comment on another thread. Here it is again--

 

http://extremelongev...0-Fullerene.pdf

[pone11]

 

 

 

Is there a full copy of the study up somewhere without paying $40 for it?

 

 

I posted it in response to your comment on another thread. Here it is again--

 

http://extremelongev...0-Fullerene.pdf

 

 

Thanks.   The week 58 rat I was using was obviously a freak.   The chat showing all of the rat deaths is pretty impressive in favor of C60+OO.

[mikey]

 

Would you consider someone with COPD to be under oxidative stress? The reason I ask is I gave some to my mom she has COPD and has been taking it since Thanksgiving. 

 

 

Indirectly maybe yes.   COPD is usually physical damage to the air sacs that do the O2 <-> CO2 gas exchange to blood.   But in thinking about what that implies, you are delivering less oxygen to blood, which means less oxygen to the cell, which means you underpower the electron transport chain.   That in turn results in less conversion of NADH to NAD+, and probably that does drive free radicals.

 

Of course given this cause, your best-case outcome is to neutralize more free radicals.   It's not like you are ever going to fix what's broken here because you are not getting more oxygen to the system.

 

Just a wild idea and thinking out loud here:   have you investigated ozone therapy for her?   Dr Frank Shallenberger in Nevada is the biggest advocate of this.  He takes blood out into a sterile container, injects pure ozone there, and after some metabolism then re-infuses the blood back to the patient.  Supposedly this results in an explosion of NAD+ and days or weeks of much higher energy.    A less-energetic version of the same idea is rectal insufflation of ozone.   I haven't tried either of these but after reading Shallenberger's (expensive) book on the subject, I'm extremely interested in trying it.

 

You do NOT get this effect by breathing ozone.   Breathing ozone will damage the linings of the lungs, and for someone like your mom might be a quick death sentence.  

 

Here is a link to Shallenberger's book, and if you contacted his clinic he might give you a read on whether ozone ever works for a COPD patient:

http://www.amazon.co...duct/145641335X

 

 

Absolutely correct. Do NOT breath ozone as it burns the lungs. However, my experience is that ozone has incredible value, used correctly, as below.

 

Dr. Shallenberger is a controversial figure because he is quite simply, in my view, the "Einstein" of functional medicine, and so he's been attacked by the conventional American "disease-care" money-driven medical establishment, of course.

 

However, Dr. Shallenberger's invention of Prolozone re-grew cartilage in my ailing knee, confirmed with my knee doctor's before and after MRIs.

And the proof is in the pudding - the return of the full, pain-free function of my knee. It took a total of four Prolozone injections, spaced about two weeks apart. 

 

However, this occurred for me, my step-mother and several friends. I document it in this article - 

http://michaelmooney.../Prolozone.html

 

As to ozonation of blood, called major autohemotherapy, I've had it done a about 8 times and it works.

 

The 100 ml of blood that is drawn out of my arm becomes bright red when ozone is introduced into it. Then it is dripped back into my arm.

 

I have an infection that results in tiny blisters in the gum above my upper rear molar.

 

This is likely the cost of having had root canals, which allow infections to occur in the miles of capillaries under the teeth.

 

After I'd have my blood ozonated, the infections, seen as blisters and slight pain in the gum disappear for a month or so.

 

I also "feel" more bright and energetic, as you mentioned.

 

From what I understand, this is because my entire system is loaded with oxygen and the infection hides away in the capillaries inside my mouth until my circulatory system doesn't have so much oxygen, which fuels immune response.

 

It also improves energy production and delivery inside all the cells of my body, thus feeling "clearer" and more energetic, overall.

 

I'm having it done again in a couple weeks.

 

Being skeptical of it, I asked the most science-based traditional naturopath I know, David Getoff what he thought of major autohemotherapy, thinking that he would poo-poo it, and was surprised to hear him rave about it, saying that he has a series of 6-10 of them, once a week, every year.

Edited by mikey, 25 December 2014 - 07:24 PM.

[sensei]

For me, the simple fact that C60OO treated rats showed apparently survived C-CL4 (carbon tetrachloride) challenge that killed the control rats; and necropsy after sacrifice showed almost total liver protection -- was good enough evidence for me to conclude that study dosages were beneficial to mammals.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Empirical evidence per complete blood panels , electrolytes, thyroid, etc taken prior to my C60 dosing and then a few weeks ago show no change -- perfect health over a 6 month period of what almost all on this board consider very high dosages.

 

(thirty-six) bottles of 45mg/50ml C60OO in 6 months -- highest single daily dose 135mg (3 bottles)

 

although I can vouch that at such doses the effect of diazepam is severely curtailed, much like people describe alcohol [ i don't consume alcohol] (as both affect the GABA receptor system -- it is not unexpected)

 

For the instance of record; on the night of a full bottle dose, instead of the usual 4 mg to combat some stress related insomnia -- it took 14mg to provide the same level of sleep induction and sleep time

[sthira]

However, Dr. Shallenberger's invention of Prolozone re-grew cartilage in my ailing knee, confirmed with my knee doctor's before and after MRIs.
And the proof is in the pudding - the return of the full, pain-free function of my knee. It took a total of four Prolozone injections, spaced about two weeks apart.

However, this occurred for me, my step-mother and several friends. I document it in this article -
http://michaelmooney.../Prolozone.html

Thanks, I read your article but you didn't mention an official diagnosis of your injured knee. What cartilage damage did you sustain in your knee, and what cartilege regrew as a result of prolozone injections? I'd be interested to see your before and after MRIs.

[mikey]

 

However, Dr. Shallenberger's invention of Prolozone re-grew cartilage in my ailing knee, confirmed with my knee doctor's before and after MRIs.
And the proof is in the pudding - the return of the full, pain-free function of my knee. It took a total of four Prolozone injections, spaced about two weeks apart.

However, this occurred for me, my step-mother and several friends. I document it in this article -
http://michaelmooney.../Prolozone.html
 

Thanks, I read your article but you didn't mention an official diagnosis of your injured knee. What cartilage damage did you sustain in your knee, and what cartilege regrew as a result of prolozone injections? I'd be interested to see your before and after MRIs.

 

 

 

Good question. I don't have a way to read or send the disc scans, but I attach the before and after reports, which aren't perfect. They were done at different labs and during the "after" MRI they had problems with movement. However, what's most interesting is that my very conventional knee doctor, knowing me, fudged the "after" prescription because he wanted to see if what I was telling him was true. I had no pain in that knee after four Prolozone treatments, so there was no legitimate reason to do the MRI.

 

After the "after" MRI was done, he called me and said, "Michael, it appears that there is new cartilage where you had some erosion before. Now MRI's aren't perfect, but this is interesting."

 

There was also new erosion on the other side of the knee, but I haven't addressed that with Prolozone because I experience no pain there.

As I said, the proof is in the pudding. Where I had regular pain in the inside left mid-knee, after four Prolozone injections it has been pain-free for a few years now. 

 

[sthira]

However, Dr. Shallenberger's invention of Prolozone re-grew cartilage in my ailing knee, confirmed with my knee doctor's before and after MRIs.
And the proof is in the pudding - the return of the full, pain-free function of my knee. It took a total of four Prolozone injections, spaced about two weeks apart.

However, this occurred for me, my step-mother and several friends. I document it in this article -
http://michaelmooney.../Prolozone.html

Thanks, I read your article but you didn't mention an official diagnosis of your injured knee. What cartilage damage did you sustain in your knee, and what cartilege regrew as a result of prolozone injections? I'd be interested to see your before and after MRIs.

Good question. I don't have a way to read or send the disc scans, but I attach the before and after reports, which aren't perfect. They were done at different labs and during the "after" MRI they had problems with movement. However, what's most interesting is that my very conventional knee doctor, knowing me, fudged the "after" prescription because he wanted to see if what I was telling him was true. I had no pain in that knee after four Prolozone treatments, so there was no legitimate reason to do the MRI.

After the "after" MRI was done, he called me and said, "Michael, it appears that there is new cartilage where you had some erosion before. Now MRI's aren't perfect, but this is interesting."

There was also new erosion on the other side of the knee, but I haven't addressed that with Prolozone because I experience no pain there.

As I said, the proof is in the pudding. Where I had regular pain in the inside left mid-knee, after four Prolozone injections it has been pain-free for a few years now.

Thanks for your clarification. MRI imagery is certainly limited. You've not mentioned a diagnosis but you do mention "erosion." So you think you had arthritis in the knee and prolozone helped with arthritis? Cartilege regeneration remains an unsolved mystery in orthopedics, and to regrow cartilege is a pretty big deal even in vascular areas. Regrowth is slow even for healthy 14-year olds. How long after your prolozone did regrowth become visible on your MRI images?

[smithx]

Which are the best commercial preparations of C60 Olive Oil available?   I noticed that many of these are being created by very small companies, so you really have no idea what the manufacturing process and quality control is.   I noticed that SES Research now has their own Olive Oil C60.

 

Take a look at this thread: http://www.longecity...e-oil-supplier/

 

I am suspicious of the SES C60OO preparation because they use sonication to make the C60 dissolve into the olive oil, and we have no way of knowing if that produces the same adducts as the slower mixing process used by Baati.

[pone11]

 

However, Dr. Shallenberger's invention of Prolozone re-grew cartilage in my ailing knee, confirmed with my knee doctor's before and after MRIs.
And the proof is in the pudding - the return of the full, pain-free function of my knee. It took a total of four Prolozone injections, spaced about two weeks apart.

However, this occurred for me, my step-mother and several friends. I document it in this article -
http://michaelmooney.../Prolozone.html
 

Thanks, I read your article but you didn't mention an official diagnosis of your injured knee. What cartilage damage did you sustain in your knee, and what cartilege regrew as a result of prolozone injections? I'd be interested to see your before and after MRIs.

 

 

Guys, this is a very important topic, and it deserves a separate thread.   I think this is an extended discussion and we could end up spoiling the C60 thread.   So please someone take initiative to create the new thread and point us there.

 

sthira, injected ozone works by creating a metabolic cascade that results in massive amounts of NAD+.   Since NAD+ is the rate-limiting favor for a lot of the aerobic metabolism machinery (i.e., glycolysis and krebs cycle), having so much NAD+ probably just increases the *rate* of aerobic metabolism, with the side effect that ATP get created more quickly.  My guess would be that no one really understands why the cartilage healing takes place so rapidly, but the general thought would be that you are supplying massive amounts of energy to all kinds of cellular processes involved with healing, so you are simply speeding up a natural process that might occur over time.

 

Since ozone cannot be patented, good luck getting anyone to pay for double blind studies.

[mikey]

 

 

 

However, Dr. Shallenberger's invention of Prolozone re-grew cartilage in my ailing knee, confirmed with my knee doctor's before and after MRIs.
And the proof is in the pudding - the return of the full, pain-free function of my knee. It took a total of four Prolozone injections, spaced about two weeks apart.

However, this occurred for me, my step-mother and several friends. I document it in this article -
http://michaelmooney.../Prolozone.html

Thanks, I read your article but you didn't mention an official diagnosis of your injured knee. What cartilage damage did you sustain in your knee, and what cartilege regrew as a result of prolozone injections? I'd be interested to see your before and after MRIs.

Good question. I don't have a way to read or send the disc scans, but I attach the before and after reports, which aren't perfect. They were done at different labs and during the "after" MRI they had problems with movement. However, what's most interesting is that my very conventional knee doctor, knowing me, fudged the "after" prescription because he wanted to see if what I was telling him was true. I had no pain in that knee after four Prolozone treatments, so there was no legitimate reason to do the MRI.

After the "after" MRI was done, he called me and said, "Michael, it appears that there is new cartilage where you had some erosion before. Now MRI's aren't perfect, but this is interesting."

There was also new erosion on the other side of the knee, but I haven't addressed that with Prolozone because I experience no pain there.

As I said, the proof is in the pudding. Where I had regular pain in the inside left mid-knee, after four Prolozone injections it has been pain-free for a few years now.

Thanks for your clarification. MRI imagery is certainly limited. You've not mentioned a diagnosis but you do mention "erosion." So you think you had arthritis in the knee and prolozone helped with arthritis? Cartilege regeneration remains an unsolved mystery in orthopedics, and to regrow cartilege is a pretty big deal even in vascular areas. Regrowth is slow even for healthy 14-year olds. How long after your prolozone did regrowth become visible on your MRI images?

 

 

I don't have an exact timetable on that. I had one MRI that showed decreased cartilage in the inside of the right knee. (I said left, but it is the right knee.) Then I had four prolozone injections in that area spaced a couple weeks apart.

 

Then the doctor fudged a prescription to get another MRI about a year after the first, he knowing me and what I do, and being curious to see for himself why I was experiencing no pain.

 

This is only one of the times that I have experienced something that conventional medicine thinks is "impossible," but it happened and I have third party confirmation that my lack of pain is happening because the cartilage was renewed. 

 

Prolozone (ozone) can unleash tremendous energy, as was said above.

Also, there is too little profit in using Prolozone, so the powers that be don't want people to know about it.

 

There is a lot more profit in knee replacements, right?

And I will create a new thread.

 

[mikey]

Here's the new thread - http://www.longecity...-new-cartilage/

[sensei]

 

 

Thanks for your clarification. MRI imagery is certainly limited. You've not mentioned a diagnosis but you do mention "erosion." So you think you had arthritis in the knee and prolozone helped with arthritis? Cartilege regeneration remains an unsolved mystery in orthopedics, and to regrow cartilege is a pretty big deal even in vascular areas. Regrowth is slow even for healthy 14-year olds. How long after your prolozone did regrowth become visible on your MRI images?

 

 

I recently posted on another thread that C60 causes differentiation of Adipocyte Derived Stem Cells (from fat) into osteoblasts

 

Antioxidative fullerol promotes osteogenesis of human adipose-derived stem cells.

 

http://www.pubfacts....ived-stem-cells.

[TRUGAN]

It looks like my cat has Lymphoma in the intestines but wont know for sure til the biopsie comes back Friday but the vet felt pretty confident thars what it is. Any thoughts on what C60 would do for her? I dont want to do anything to make her worse and I dont want to give her c60 if you guys think it probably wont help her any. I gave her a MitoQ cap every day for the last 3 days just to see if that would make her feel better but I dont think it did. They gave her a steroid shot after the biopsie today so she feels good for now but it wont last. Anyway, I appreciate any thoughts on the c60.

[niner]

It looks like my cat has Lymphoma in the intestines but wont know for sure til the biopsie comes back Friday but the vet felt pretty confident thars what it is. Any thoughts on what C60 would do for her? I dont want to do anything to make her worse and I dont want to give her c60 if you guys think it probably wont help her any. I gave her a MitoQ cap every day for the last 3 days just to see if that would make her feel better but I dont think it did. They gave her a steroid shot after the biopsie today so she feels good for now but it wont last. Anyway, I appreciate any thoughts on the c60.

 

MitoQ, and probably c60 as well may suppress metastasis of solid tumors.  I don't know exactly how that would apply to lymphoma, but I doubt that either would be harmful.  A lot of people have given c60 to pets.  Sometimes the results are remarkable, other times not, depending on the condition.  I don't recall any adverse effects.

[pone11]

It looks like my cat has Lymphoma in the intestines but wont know for sure til the biopsie comes back Friday but the vet felt pretty confident thars what it is. Any thoughts on what C60 would do for her? I dont want to do anything to make her worse and I dont want to give her c60 if you guys think it probably wont help her any. I gave her a MitoQ cap every day for the last 3 days just to see if that would make her feel better but I dont think it did. They gave her a steroid shot after the biopsie today so she feels good for now but it wont last. Anyway, I appreciate any thoughts on the c60.

 

Your lucky day, because I had just bookmarked some summary of a recent study that claims to be able to stop metastasis of tumors with a research antioxidant known as MitoTEMPO:

 

http://www.cell.com/...(14)00527-0.pdf

http://www.science20..._horizon-142136

 

You really need to dig to figure out therapeutic doses for a cat.  You are on the leading edge here, because what is good for a mouse might either underdose a cat or kill a cat.   The odds you find a cat study are slim.   But read the literature on this substance and see if you can find a cat study.  Contact authors (they probably won't respond).

 

At the end of the day, this just addresses metastasis, and you need to treat the primary tumor.   But if you can stop metastasis that is HUGE.   It at least extends life and gives you a non zero chance of extending life.

 

I have no idea if you can buy MitoTEMPO.   It might require you to get someone to buy on your behalf who has access to wholesale research chemical outlets.  If you ever tell a chemical reseller that you are going to either ingest the substance yourself, use in a human trial, or give it to your cat for its benefit, they will probably blacklist you.   They sell things like this for research purposes only.

 

I started a separate thread on MitoTEMPO, but no one responded so far:

http://www.longecity...n-of-mitotempo/

 

Please move this discussion into that thread and keep us updated on progress.

Edited by pone11, 06 January 2015 - 03:18 AM.

[niner]

The paper in Cell Reports (Porporato et al.) that used MitoTEMPO to suppress metastasis also mentioned that MitoQ worked too.  The metastatic "switch" involved overproduction of superoxide in the mitochondria, which leads me to believe that C60oo will be as good, and perhaps even better than MitoTEMPO/Q.  Frankly, I wouldn't bother trying to track down mitoTEMPO, I'd use c60oo or mitoQ, with c60 having a distinct cost advantage, and possible cat-dosing advantage as well.   I'm still unsure about how metastasis applies to a blood cancer, since the cells are already mobile.  However, there are other factors to consider besides mobility, like invasiveness and clonogenicity that are part of the superoxide dependent state, so this approach deserves a shot.

[sensei]

The paper in Cell Reports (Porporato et al.) that used MitoTEMPO to suppress metastasis also mentioned that MitoQ worked too.  The metastatic "switch" involved overproduction of superoxide in the mitochondria, which leads me to believe that C60oo will be as good, and perhaps even better than MitoTEMPO/Q.  Frankly, I wouldn't bother trying to track down mitoTEMPO, I'd use c60oo or mitoQ, with c60 having a distinct cost advantage, and possible cat-dosing advantage as well.   I'm still unsure about how metastasis applies to a blood cancer, since the cells are already mobile.  However, there are other factors to consider besides mobility, like invasiveness and clonogenicity that are part of the superoxide dependent state, so this approach deserves a shot.

 

Apparently metastasis also has to do with the 'stickiness' of the cancer cells:

 

"One of the genes that they identified was of particular interest because of a known role it plays in enabling metastatic cancer cells to stick to secondary tissues and seed new tumours.  The gene in question, called ‘ST6GalNAc2’ codes for a protein that alters the characteristic features of the cell surface.  The outer surface of a cell is embedded with molecules that dot the landscape like mountains and forests on the Earth’s surface.  The ST6GalNAc2 protein chops off a specific molecule from the surface of the cell and as a result, the cell is no longer able to pick up a second molecule called ‘galectin-3’, which is present in the fluid surrounding our cells.  With the ST6GalNac2 gene switched off, the cancer cells pick up lots of galectin-3 and become more likely to stick to areas like the lungs."

 

http://westernsloth....-breast-cancer/

 

http://cancerdiscove...7f-c689fc48a69d -- link to paper

[ambivalent]

It looks like my cat has Lymphoma in the intestines but wont know for sure til the biopsie comes back Friday but the vet felt pretty confident thars what it is. Any thoughts on what C60 would do for her? I dont want to do anything to make her worse and I dont want to give her c60 if you guys think it probably wont help her any. I gave her a MitoQ cap every day for the last 3 days just to see if that would make her feel better but I dont think it did. They gave her a steroid shot after the biopsie today so she feels good for now but it wont last. Anyway, I appreciate any thoughts on the c60.

 

Hi MrWhitee

 

I'm sorry to hear about your cat's troubles.

 

It might be worth looking at bicarbonate of soda:

 

http://www.canceract...ink.aspx?n=3181

 

http://moffitt.org/h...r-acidity-study

 

Also, there was a long thread on longecity of a successful attempt to treat a dog with bowel cancer:

 

http://www.longecity...-cancer-in-dog/

 

Good luck and best wishes.

[sensei]

It looks like my cat has Lymphoma in the intestines but wont know for sure til the biopsie comes back Friday but the vet felt pretty confident thars what it is. Any thoughts on what C60 would do for her? I dont want to do anything to make her worse and I dont want to give her c60 if you guys think it probably wont help her any. I gave her a MitoQ cap every day for the last 3 days just to see if that would make her feel better but I dont think it did. They gave her a steroid shot after the biopsie today so she feels good for now but it wont last. Anyway, I appreciate any thoughts on the c60.

 

You could try liposomal vitamin c -- 

 

Studies have shown that IV ascorbate has caused apoptosis of cancer and increased survival in vivo in humans.

 

http://www.cmaj.ca/c.../7/937.abstract

 

Liposomal vitamin c can overcome the issue of intestinal absorption and lead to blood levels seen in IV administration.

 

Cats manufacture ascorbic acid like all animals except us and the great apes, so it likely couldn't hurt.

[SteveF]

It looks like my cat has Lymphoma in the intestines but wont know for sure til the biopsie comes back Friday but the vet felt pretty confident thars what it is. Any thoughts on what C60 would do for her? I dont want to do anything to make her worse and I dont want to give her c60 if you guys think it probably wont help her any. I gave her a MitoQ cap every day for the last 3 days just to see if that would make her feel better but I dont think it did. They gave her a steroid shot after the biopsie today so she feels good for now but it wont last. Anyway, I appreciate any thoughts on the c60.

 

Please check research raw food for cats. Cats were made as raw carnivours. If given the right raw corganic food they heal themselves, google "pottenger's cats".  Also see, http://naturalpetrec...ecipe-for-cats/

 

God Luck

[pone11]

It looks like my cat has Lymphoma in the intestines but wont know for sure til the biopsie comes back Friday but the vet felt pretty confident thars what it is. Any thoughts on what C60 would do for her? I dont want to do anything to make her worse and I dont want to give her c60 if you guys think it probably wont help her any. I gave her a MitoQ cap every day for the last 3 days just to see if that would make her feel better but I dont think it did. They gave her a steroid shot after the biopsie today so she feels good for now but it wont last. Anyway, I appreciate any thoughts on the c60.

 

Think about starting a new thread.   You'll probably want to have a wide ranging discussion on your cat that goes beyond C60.