371 replies to this topic

[maxwatt]

I wonder if you aren't reaching a level of expense and complexity with the muller'ing, strategies to reduce lost material, trying to make pastes, etc that the original magnetic stirrer approach becomes more attractive.

If you're in a hurry, a muller or mortar and pestle would be the fastest way to make C60-OO, with the fewest undissolved particles. The paint-making demonstrations were voluminous and messy, but having used the equipment (albeit for other purposes) I can grind and mix with far less waste than in the demos. I believe the muller will be more efficient than a mortar and pestle, and the flat surfaces easier to clean and recover material from.

[ClarkSims]

In an unsaturated solution, any nano particles of c60 should be unstable and dissolve. So if one were in a hurry one could just mix the c60 in olive oil, let it set for as long as possible, filter it through a coffee filter to remove all the macro particles, and the microparticles in the resulting fluid should dissolve pretty quickly after that, so long as the solution isn't saturated.

Does this make sense to people?

[niner]

In an unsaturated solution, any nano particles of c60 should be unstable and dissolve. So if one were in a hurry one could just mix the c60 in olive oil, let it set for as long as possible, filter it through a coffee filter to remove all the macro particles, and the microparticles in the resulting fluid should dissolve pretty quickly after that, so long as the solution isn't saturated.

Does this make sense to people?

If they are actually sub-micron particles, then yeah, they will dissolve pretty fast. The commercial C60 that I'm using has a large particle size, and they don't dissolve quickly at all. If one is in a hurry, I think the C60 should be ground first. Then it will dissolve rapidly.

[mpe]

Two days ago I received my gram of SES 99.95 C60.
Today I purchased 2 x 750ml bottles of Cobram Estate extra virgin olive oil, 2012 crushing.

I immediately wanted to divide the gram and load both bottles, but the problem was how to measure it.
Fortunately SES shipped the C60 in a opaque container, I held it to the light and could clearly the top level of the C60.
I used a marking pen and marked that point, then used a ruler and split the difference to the bottom.
I know it's not an exact measure, but when I poured the two halves out I couldn't tell the difference.

Without any further thought I opened the first bottle and tipped the C60 in, resealed the bottle as best I could and gave it a shake.
About 10 minutes later I inspected the bottle and noticed sediment on the bottom of the bottle which wasn't apparent before I opened the bottle. I gave the bottle another shake and put it to the side.

I remembered Niners earlier post about grinding the C60 before adding it to his olive oil. Niner had the correct grinding equipment, I have none, he had also mentioned the possible use of stainless steel in place of porcelain.
I went to the kitchen draw and took out a desert spoon and a tea spoon, put the C60 into the desert spoon then used the tea spoon to grind the C60 as best I could for the next 10 minutes whilst doing my best not to spill any in the process.

I tipped the "ground up" C60 into the second bottle and shook it for about 5 minutes.
I have let both bottles stand for the past hour and have just inspected both.
The bottle that was "ground" has no discernible sediment, the unground bottle once again has sediment.

Clearly grinding does make a difference, I just hope that regular shaking will make up for the lack of grinding on the first bottle.

One question though, how long should I shake the bottles for and how many times a day should I shake the bottles?


Mike

[niner]

The bottle that was "ground" has no discernible sediment, the unground bottle once again has sediment.

Clearly grinding does make a difference, I just hope that regular shaking will make up for the lack of grinding on the first bottle.

One question though, how long should I shake the bottles for and how many times a day should I shake the bottles?

This will be a nice experiment. My version of it was flawed because of the vitamin E that I had long ago added to the oil I used in the unground bottle, which I think may inhibit the reaction. You don't need to shake very long; just enough to thoroughly mix it up. If you shake it twice a day, that's probably enough. The two signs that I use to tell if it's working are the appearance of a deep purplish-red color and the disappearance of the c60 particles. If you start out with a strongly colored oil (my "good" oil is a deep green color, which complicates things), then it's harder to tell. For my second batch with the ground c60, I made a point of using a lighter colored oil.

[mpe]

It's been just over 1 day since mixing my bottles and I'm curious how its going.
The two bottles have both been shaken 3 times for 5 minutes or less ( spaced about 8 hours apart).

The bottles are a dark green colour and you really can't tell if the oil is changing colour just by looking through them.

I poured a shot glass from each bottle, placed another clear bottle of olive ( almost identical in colour to the untreated oil) next to them for easy reference.

The shot glass in the centre is the "ground oil", the darker shading on the side glass is printing on the glass itself.

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[mpe]

As you can see there has already been a significant change in both bottles of oil, but by far the greatest change has been in the oil which received the ground C60.

I apologise for the poor photo, I took it with my iPad.

Both bottles are stored side by side in a cupboard in my garage.
No light at about 10 degrees C.

[niner]

Both bottles are stored side by side in a cupboard in my garage.
No light at about 10 degrees C.

The reaction will go faster if you keep them at room temp or a little higher. 10 is a little on the cool side.

[HappyPhysicist]

Has anyone run a C60 olive oil reaction that was kept cool, sealed, and dark the entire time? If so, did it develop a deep reddish color?

I have on several occasions vacuum sealed the jar in which I mixed the c60. noticed no difference in color or left over c60 between those batches and the batches that were not vacuum sealed.

[tintinet]

As you can see there has already been a significant change in both bottles of oil, but by far the greatest change has been in the oil which received the ground C60.

I apologise for the poor photo, I took it with my iPad.

Both bottles are stored side by side in a cupboard in my garage.
No light at about 10 degrees C.

Pic looks fine to me, for the purpose. Which iPad? The '3' has a 5 megapixel camera no?

[trance]

 Image2.jpg   77.84KB   31 downloads

Samples from 500 ml bottle after 7 days of passive unstirred, no grinding of 400 mg of C60, on left.

Original Koroneiki olive oil sample on right.

[mpe]

Ok, I have just moved the bottles to our kitchen cupboard, it's warmer there but should still be dark for most of the time.

I used an iPad 2.

I checked and then shook both oils this morning, they both look very similar to yesterday.

[mpe]

Work commitments have prevented me from posting recently, I wish I could report that at least one bottle of olive oil had turned red, but its not the case.

I had both bottles in the kitchen cupboard for 3 days, only being removed for their twice daily shaking. The kitchen temperature varies throughout the day between 15 and 20 degrees and cooler of a night. On the third day I opened both bottles and inspected the oils. Both had become a darker shade, but really nothing much had changed.

I took both bottles upstairs, placing them on my bedside table.
The bottles are in the open but out of direct sunlight and the room is much warmer during he day with the daytime temperature varying between 20 and 26 degrees C. I continued to shake them twice daily and this morning checked their respective colours.

The "ground" oil has a brown tinge to it and is still noticeably darker than the unground oil, which still looks like a sooty olive oil.

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[Andey]

Work commitments have prevented me from posting recently, I wish I could report that at least one bottle of olive oil had turned red, but its not the case.

Look at it against light. When I did mine I received very dark oil that looks browny in bottle, but with definite red tint when fitted it glass and placed against sun light.

[mpe]

I have, but it still doesn't have any red colouring. I think the temperature has been too low and too variable for it to change colour quickly. I'm almost tempted to buy a heated magnetic stirrer, but I really wanted to do it without spending any more money than I absolutely had to.

[Freebytes]

What equipment are you guys using to measure your samples? As MPE said, he simply used half the container, but are any of you using scales, graduated cylinders, etc. for your measurements? I have ordered a milligram scale so I can have my measurements as accurate as possible, but I am curious about your options for measurements.

MPE, solubility increases with temperature and smaller solute particles so you should consider storing them at room temperature to increase the speed at which they dissolve. I am not purchasing a stirrer, but my amounts are going to be much smaller. I will likely keep it in my pocket. I work in an office and 'bounce' my leg all day so that should be sufficient for stirring it for two weeks. I plan to keep it out of the light when it is at home, though. I have received my sample of C60 but have not yet received my scale (which should be here by November 5.)

[tintinet]

Again, I'm curious about the emphasis on precise measurements of C60 when we have almost no idea about optimal dosage (if there is such a thing- we have such scant evidence for human benefit), and individuals taking hugely varying doses.

[niner]

Again, I'm curious about the emphasis on precise measurements of C60 when we have almost no idea about optimal dosage (if there is such a thing- we have such scant evidence for human benefit), and individuals taking hugely varying doses.

I can see your point, but I don't think it's a good reason to be sloppy. If we don't know how much we're taking, then we'll never know what to ascribe any effects to. I had pretty good results buying a gram, splitting it into two parts, and adding each to a 750ml bottle of oil. That was pretty low tech, but I have a reasonable idea of the concentration. I didn't use a milligram scale, but they're so cheap, people might as well get them if they want. They come in handy from time to time.

[Freebytes]

Tintinet, if someone has claims of some result from taking a substance, it is always good to know their measurements so the procedure can be precisely duplicated. If multiple people report the same phenomenon, it would likely be attributable to the substance. If we have some people taking micrograms, others taking 1 milligram, and still others taking 20 milligrams, it would be difficult to pinpoint the effects, and anecdotal reports would go unnoticed or tested. This applies to any substance. Plus, if three people died after taking C60, it would be nice to know if they were taking 10 grams a day and not 10mg so we do not repeat their mistakes!

I also notice that people on the board have a tendency (especially in the case of C60) to use similar doses to one another. 500mg dissolved in 750ml of oil seems to be a consistent theme so if we one out of twenty people reporting side effects at that dosage (headaches, back pain, etc.), we might be able to rule out C60 being the cause.

I am still not convinced that this will result in a human benefit, but I have not heard of anyone suffering from short term consequences so far so I am willing to try it as a guinea pig until we hear the results of the duplicated rat trial. (And in the case of the rat experiments, it is crucial that we maintain consistent measurements.)

[tintinet]

I agree, dosage may be important, but I fail to see much benefit with fine precision in this case. ISTM there's wide variation in participant dosing, BMIs, ages, and dosing schedules. Some posters have claimed striking benefit from small doses, while others note nothing from much larger amounts. Do you fine tune your aspirin dose?

Edited by tintinet, 28 October 2012 - 12:07 PM.

[sapentia]

I have, but it still doesn't have any red colouring. I think the temperature has been too low and too variable for it to change colour quickly. I'm almost tempted to buy a heated magnetic stirrer, but I really wanted to do it without spending any more money than I absolutely had to.

It should definitely be more red than brown. I have mixed two batches - unground and unfiltered - and they both quickly turned brown and then slowly to red. The first batch I was more rigorous with and probably shook 20+ times per day with the solution turning a reddish hue within the first week. The second batch I only shook a handful of times a day and it took considerably longer to change hue. Both batches are identical to the C60-OO that I purchased from one of the retailers. Once finished I simply allow any remaining sediment to stay at the bottom of the bottle and pour the C60-OO off the top. After finishing a bottle I simply added some extra OO to dissolve the remaining sediment so as not to waste the pricey C60.

[Turnbuckle]

The colors can vary all over the place, and I doubt if anyone here can say that it has anything to do with the efficacy. However, I take a lot of care with it, using only organic EVOO that I know has been deaerated, and now I first grind the powder, then magnetically stir it and filter at .22 micron. This takes about 3 days or less for C60 and about 1 day for C60/C70. Once prepared, I keep a small amount in the fridge and the bulk of it in the freezer. C60 prepared this way is red, and in the freezer it becomes a hazy strawberry (photo on the left) and eventually a light pink. On defrosting, it returns to its red color. C60/C70 is almost black in bulk, but in a test tube looks red (photo on the right). In the freezer it resembles caramel frappuccino.

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[ClarkSims]

When I have made c60 in olive oil, the same solution will appear, brown, red or purple viewed from different angles, and in different lighting. The color of the olive oil is often dark enough to overwhelm the purple of the dissolved c60.

[stephen_b]

People are using different olive oils too.

[maxwatt]

The study Clinical evaluation of fullerene-C60 dissolved in squalane for anti-wrinkle cosmetics. is interesting in that they used squalane derived from olive oil as a solvent/adduct rather than pure olive oil. they made a "

nearly saturated concentration of 278 ppm

".

Does this form an adduct, or merely act as a solvent? In either case, would this have the same effect as C60-olive-oil?

[ClarkSims]

If the c60 is helping get rid of the wrinkles, it seems to me that the logical choice would be to take a saturated solution of olive oil, which at .8 g / liter of olive oil, and olive oil having a density of about .9 g / cc, works out to be .8 / 1000 / .9 * 1000000 = 888 ppm, and then dilute it with dmso.

The popular ratio seems to be about 10% dmso by volume, to 90% other liquid, in this case C60 olive oil. The DMSO would carry the olive oil c60 mixture deep into the skin where it would be absorbed.

Here is a nice thread about olive oil / dmso

http://neurotalk.psy...p/t-161273.html

[ClarkSims]

or one could just put the olive oil c60 on the skin. It has a 3 times the concentration of c60, as squalane, so that should would better I would guess.

[ClarkSims]

And while we are on the subject of cosmetics, why not use c60 / olive oil / maybe dmso, to treat gray hair?
The C60 should react with the H2O2, or catalyze a reaction to neutralize the H2O2.


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19237503

Does anyone know how C60 reacts with H2O2 in vivo?
Is it a catalyst, or does it react directly with the H2O2?

[niner]

The study Clinical evaluation of fullerene-C60 dissolved in squalane for anti-wrinkle cosmetics. is interesting in that they used squalane derived from olive oil as a solvent/adduct rather than pure olive oil. they made a "nearly saturated concentration of 278 ppm".

Does this form an adduct, or merely act as a solvent? In either case, would this have the same effect as C60-olive-oil?

Squalane is a 30 carbon branched (terpenoid) alkane. 278 ppm sounds reasonable for solubility (as opposed to reactivity) of c60 in a large alkane, if you consider the alkanes in this series. 278ppm = 0.278mg/g * (0.810g/ml) = 0.225mg/ml [density of squalane = .810g/ml] If it did form an adduct, I don't think it would localize to membranes very effectively due to the lack of a polar head group. It would probably partition into fat, although I don't think it would be very bioavailable via the oral route. It would be more like eating vaseline; so it would probably be a very expensive laxative...

[PWAIN]

I am just wanting to get rid of the ighly visible grit at the bottom. Do you guys think I could get away with a regular coffeee filter? Will it take forever to come through the filter?