371 replies to this topic

[niner]

I am just wanting to get rid of the ighly visible grit at the bottom. Do you guys think I could get away with a regular coffeee filter? Will it take forever to come through the filter?

If the grit is sitting at the bottom, you can probably pour off most of the clean oil into another container without disturbing the grit, if you're careful. Then go ahead and pour the rest into a coffee filter. It will probably be slow (maybe take a day?), but I'd expect it to work pretty well. Another possibility would be to try to crush the grains and let them react longer. Large particles of c60 take forever to react without constant agitation.

[Freebytes]

To avoid light and to keep 'stirring' my solution, I have been carrying the solution in my pocket. I have a habit of 'jittering my leg' so I suspect this will have a positive impact. I have made four vials of C60oo with a concentration of 100mg in 20ml which is 5mg/ml. I was going to use this as a skin treatment to observe the results. I put one vial in my pocket for a couple days, but I also wanted to use an oral dosage so I made a new vial that was 30mg/30ml (1mg/ml).

The vial that was 100mg/20ml was kept in my pocket for about two days, but it has now been sitting in a dark box for about 5 days. I am now carrying around the 30mg/30ml vial. Anyway, the main reason I switched was because I was concerned about it taking FOREVER for any changes to appear to take place so I thought I would start with a lower concentration first. However, an interesting observation: The vial that I carried that was high concentration is crimson red. Whereas, the other three high concentration vials that I carried around show almost no change from their original color. Therefore, any kind of disturbance of the solution is certainly beneficial, and you should be sure to stir the contents of the vial whenever possible.

[mpe]

To avoid light and to keep 'stirring' my solution, I have been carrying the solution in my pocket. I have a habit of 'jittering my leg' so I suspect this will have a positive impact. I have made four vials of C60oo with a concentration of 100mg in 20ml which is 5mg/ml. I was going to use this as a skin treatment to observe the results. I put one vial in my pocket for a couple days, but I also wanted to use an oral dosage so I made a new vial that was 30mg/30ml (1mg/ml).

The vial that was 100mg/20ml was kept in my pocket for about two days, but it has now been sitting in a dark box for about 5 days. I am now carrying around the 30mg/30ml vial. Anyway, the main reason I switched was because I was concerned about it taking FOREVER for any changes to appear to take place so I thought I would start with a lower concentration first. However, an interesting observation: The vial that I carried that was high concentration is crimson red. Whereas, the other three high concentration vials that I carried around show almost no change from their original color. Therefore, any kind of disturbance of the solution is certainly beneficial, and you should be sure to stir the contents of the vial whenever possible.

I tried carrying 100 ml of my mixture around for a couple of days as well, it became a darker brown but not red.
Today I placed 3 100ml bottles of C60oo into a saucepan of water and set the temperature on the stove to its lowest level. The water became hot but not boiling and I left it on for 6 hours then allowed it to cool to room temperature before checking again.
The colour has finally changed from dirty brown to whiskey.
I gave it a taste test, the mixture has a much stronger and sharper taste than Carbon's C60, which by comparison is rather woody ( not a criticism ).
I think I'll treat the rest of my mixture the same way, freeze one bottle and keep the rest in the fridge until its needed.

[Freebytes]

None of my combinations is ready for consumption yet. I can still see the C60 floating around in it. If it is not ready within a month, I am going to try something much different.

[somecallmetim]

Freebytes,

You mentioned that you were going to try a vial of C60oo on your skin; do you have a certain skin condition that you are going to apply the C60oo on? If so, were you planning on doing the topical doses first, or are you going to do both topical and oral dosing at the same time? It would be interesting if you did just the topical first, to see if it has any benefit on its own. I plan on trying this myself when my batch is finally ready.

[niner]

To avoid light and to keep 'stirring' my solution, I have been carrying the solution in my pocket. I have a habit of 'jittering my leg' so I suspect this will have a positive impact. I have made four vials of C60oo with a concentration of 100mg in 20ml which is 5mg/ml. I was going to use this as a skin treatment to observe the results. I put one vial in my pocket for a couple days, but I also wanted to use an oral dosage so I made a new vial that was 30mg/30ml (1mg/ml).

The vial that was 100mg/20ml was kept in my pocket for about two days, but it has now been sitting in a dark box for about 5 days. I am now carrying around the 30mg/30ml vial. Anyway, the main reason I switched was because I was concerned about it taking FOREVER for any changes to appear to take place so I thought I would start with a lower concentration first. However, an interesting observation: The vial that I carried that was high concentration is crimson red. Whereas, the other three high concentration vials that I carried around show almost no change from their original color. Therefore, any kind of disturbance of the solution is certainly beneficial, and you should be sure to stir the contents of the vial whenever possible.

I tried carrying 100 ml of my mixture around for a couple of days as well, it became a darker brown but not red.
Today I placed 3 100ml bottles of C60oo into a saucepan of water and set the temperature on the stove to its lowest level. The water became hot but not boiling and I left it on for 6 hours then allowed it to cool to room temperature before checking again.
The colour has finally changed from dirty brown to whiskey.
I gave it a taste test, the mixture has a much stronger and sharper taste than Carbon's C60, which by comparison is rather woody ( not a criticism ).
I think I'll treat the rest of my mixture the same way, freeze one bottle and keep the rest in the fridge until its needed.

These are some of the classic ways to increase reaction rates- heating and agitation. Thanks for trying heat, mpe- I think you're the first person to try it. I guess carrying a vial in your pocket also provides a little heat. The rate determining step of this reaction seems to be the dissolution of the c60 crystal. The c60 crystal is not very strong (imagine a "crystal" made of marbles, with just the barest of attractive forces between them), so it's very easy to grind or crush. If you crush it before you mix it with the olive oil, the reaction rate is radically increased.

[Anthony_Loera]

Mpe,

Try it at 60c or 80c per the Russian study:

http://c60.net/c60-o...oil-solubility/

Cheers
A

[Freebytes]

Freebytes,

You mentioned that you were going to try a vial of C60oo on your skin; do you have a certain skin condition that you are going to apply the C60oo on? If so, were you planning on doing the topical doses first, or are you going to do both topical and oral dosing at the same time? It would be interesting if you did just the topical first, to see if it has any benefit on its own. I plan on trying this myself when my batch is finally ready.

Somecallmetim, I was going to do oral first and then topical, but if you guys think it would be in the best interest of people here to try it on my skin, I will do that. Last year, the first wrinkles appeared on my forehead. I am 33 years old and will be 34 in January. I was planning to use the solution on my skin to see if it had any impact on the wrinkles and possibly hair growth. I do not have much of a receeding hairline, but my hair is less full than I would like it to be so I considered trying both of these. However, it is taking a really long time because I am using a very high concentration. (My solution might be oversaturated so I will likely be adding more olive oil to make it slightly less potent.) I am going to wait until I have had these mixed for a month, though, before I try filtering it. I can then try to weigh the filtered amount to see how much remained within the solution.

Would coffee filters be good for filtering?

[stephen_b]

Do we know how many milligrams of C60 can be dissolved into a milliliter of olive oil?

[Freebytes]

Stephen_b, I was actually wondering that myself. This article from 1993 does seem interesting, though: http://www.nature.co...html According to this, if olive oil fits the same criteria, if you were to measure the temperature (starting at room temperature), the temperature of the solution should decrease as the C60 dissolves. However, I am not sure if this change is actually noticeable enough to even result in a temperature change of 1 degree in such small amounts. "We observe a solubility maximum near room temperature (around 280 K) for all three solvents." I am not sure if this is applicable to olive oil itself, but it seems likely. This means that heating it up should not have as much of an impact as dissolving other substances (e.g. heating water to dissolve sugar.)

However, at http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21137794 it was found that "Highly purified and organic solvent-free fullerene-C60 was dissolved, at nearly saturated concentration of 278 ppm, in squalane prepared from olive oil, which is designated as LipoFullerene (LF-SQ) and was examined for usage as a cosmetic ingredient with antioxidant ability." Which means that it could be higher than 278 ppm, but this is in pure squalane.

Turnbuckle offered the recommendation to use a green laser pointer to find whether there are remaining particles of C60 within the C60oo solution. This apparently works because the C60 will appear black after absorbing the green light. However, this is also likely because an absence of green light should produce a pink or purple color, and a fully saturated substance should appear this pink or purple color. Interestingly, many olive oils seem to reflect green light. This means that if you have too much olive oil, it should not be as purple, but if you are very saturated, it should appear purple as far as I understand. It will go from the yellowish/greenish to brown to red to purple. I have not yet proceeded past a crimson red color with my pocket shaken C60oo. However, there are still numerous visible grains of C60.

Oh, and Somecallmetim, I was going to also see if I noticed any changes in any 'moles' I have on my body. I have taken a picture of all of them in preparation of this. I was going to take pictures again afterwards. All such skin lesions are small, though. I considered purchasing calipers to measure it, but if it is not sufficient to see through images, then the changes are likely not significant enough to document. My initial objective was to examine the changes in skin appearance due to oral consumption of C60oo so I was going to take pictures of all flaws of my skin, including the wrinkles.

Edited by Freebytes, 26 November 2012 - 09:38 PM.

[Freebytes]

Oh, I found this http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19371265 which seems to indicate to me that the concerns about UV on C60oo when used on the skin are not as significant as when consumed orally.

[somecallmetim]

Oh, and Somecallmetim, I was going to also see if I noticed any changes in any 'moles' I have on my body. I have taken a picture of all of them in preparation of this. I was going to take pictures again afterwards. All such skin lesions are small, though. I considered purchasing calipers to measure it, but if it is not sufficient to see through images, then the changes are likely not significant enough to document. My initial objective was to examine the changes in skin appearance due to oral consumption of C60oo so I was going to take pictures of all flaws of my skin, including the wrinkles.

Sounds good. It will be interesting to see what kind of results you get.

[niner]

Stephen_b, I was actually wondering that myself. This article from 1993 does seem interesting, though: http://www.nature.co...html According to this, if olive oil fits the same criteria, if you were to measure the temperature (starting at room temperature), the temperature of the solution should decrease as the C60 dissolves. However, I am not sure if this change is actually noticeable enough to even result in a temperature change of 1 degree in such small amounts. "We observe a solubility maximum near room temperature (around 280 K) for all three solvents." I am not sure if this is applicable to olive oil itself, but it seems likely. This means that heating it up should not have as much of an impact as dissolving other substances (e.g. heating water to dissolve sugar.)

Yes, that weird behavior, where solubility goes down as temperature goes up, has been seen for a variety of solvents. I saw an explanation for it somewhere, but I've forgotten exactly what it was. It made sense at the time..

However, when c60 is combined with vegetable oils, the main effect is not dissolution but rather a chemical reaction between the c60 and the oil. The reaction rate will be enhanced exponentially with increasing temperature, so the c60 goes in much faster if heated.

It's not entirely clear to me what the limit of solubility of the reacted product is. Sarah Vaughter claims that her product is 0.9mg/ml, while Carbon says his is 0.8mg/ml. I think that's what Baati found, too. It's a pretty good bet that it's somewhere around .8 or .9mg/ml, though I'm not sure how hard anyone has tried to get a saturated solution.

However, at http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21137794 it was found that "Highly purified and organic solvent-free fullerene-C60 was dissolved, at nearly saturated concentration of 278 ppm, in squalane prepared from olive oil, which is designated as LipoFullerene (LF-SQ) and was examined for usage as a cosmetic ingredient with antioxidant ability." Which means that it could be higher than 278 ppm, but this is in pure squalane.

This is simple solution rather than reaction. If 278ppm is nearly saturated, then it isn't going to go much higher, since saturation is, by definition, the most solute that the solution can hold. 1ppm = 1 mcg/gm = 1mg/kg. 1ml olive oil ~= 0.92g.

Edited by niner, 27 November 2012 - 02:29 AM.

[Freebytes]

Niner, mine is 30mg/30ml so if mine can fully dissolve, we will know it is higher than .9mg/ml. I am going to give it a full month and observe it afterwards. At the moment, it has made good progress but has stalled with only a small amount of visible C60. I still have over a week to wait, though. If, after a month, it is still not fully dissolved, we should probably accept .9mg/ml as a reasonable maximum for home concoctions. (No one wants to wait months, after all.) I could simply add more olive oil to make it .75mg/ml, and I am sure that would dissolve much faster. However, it must be noted that I did not try to crush the powder, and it is something that I would certainly do if I had another attempt.

My 100mg/20ml mixtures are far from being complete, and I will likely need to add more olive oil to even have it dissolve fully.

[Fred_CALICO]

Hello

I mixed 250mg of C60 (99.9% purity) in 500 ml of olive oil.
Put the mixture in a dark piece which is locate the "hot water supply".
I shake twice a day during the first 5 days.
Since yesterday, I put the bottle on the "washing machine" when it goes into spin.
The color change works well for two days.
This is observed after 5 washings.
The "aggregates" of C60, as large pieces of KMnO4 (potassium permanganate) become much thinner.
I think continuing with this method.
I could use the magnetic stirrer of the lab, but the idea here is to develop methods usable by all people.

[Freebytes]

It has been a month. There are still some almost unnoticeable clumps in my 30mg/30ml solution so I have mixed an additional 30ml of olive oil with it. I then split that between two 30ml bottles, and the specks are no longer noticeable. I left it overnight, and I am going to try it for the first time today. It is basically .5mg/ml now. It appears that 1mg/ml of the brand of olive oil I am using with C60 is the maximum solubility. I would not try going past .9mg/ml with regular olive oil for your solutions based on what I have found or else you might need to dilute it. My 5mg/ml solutions have made so little progress after a month that the attempt is pretty much a failure. I am pretty sure it is max solubility so I was thinking about skimming the C60oo off the top of these and simply using them for a skin lotion. I am not going to be using this because it might interfere with my oral dosing, though. I will be taking pictures of my skin lesions (moles), scars, and appearance and then observing changes. I plan on taking it twice a week for a month.

I will let everyone see all of the details a month from now when I am done.

[rashlan]

What rpm are people using with their magnetic stirrers?

[hav]

Hi, rashlan. Not sure what rpm I get, but when I mix a liter oil I set my Benchmark stirrer to around 7.5 ... the knob has markings going from 1 to a max of 9. I like to see a little bit of a funnel but found that if I spin it too fast, the capsule has a tendency after a while to start bouncing around in the beaker instead of spinning. When you first put it in, the grains of c60 are pretty clearly visible in the oil. As long as you see good movement and circulation of the grains, I think you're fine. If you mix smaller amounts of oil, spinning is allot easier. I think 1 liter is probably the upper limit.

Howard

[rashlan]

Hi, rashlan. Not sure what rpm I get, but when I mix a liter oil I set my Benchmark stirrer to around 7.5 ... the knob has markings going from 1 to a max of 9. I like to see a little bit of a funnel but found that if I spin it too fast, the capsule has a tendency after a while to start bouncing around in the beaker instead of spinning. When you first put it in, the grains of c60 are pretty clearly visible in the oil. As long as you see good movement and circulation of the grains, I think you're fine. If you mix smaller amounts of oil, spinning is allot easier. I think 1 liter is probably the upper limit.

Howard

Thanks,
Does anyone know what the draw backs would be of getting the C60 purified 99.9%? The reason I ask is that its half the price of the Ultra pure, vacuum dried C60.

[Krell]

How do folks determine when the C60 is fully dissolved?

I have been using a green laser pointer (I think I stole this idea from Turnbuckle)
and there are still some sparkles after stirring 1L oo with 0.8mg 99.5% C60 for a month.

[Turnbuckle]

How do folks determine when the C60 is fully dissolved?

I have been using a green laser pointer (I think I stole this idea from Turnbuckle)
and there are still some sparkles after stirring 1L oo with 0.8mg 99.5% C60 for a month.

I usually grind, magnetically stir for three days, and filter. The laser detects nothing in the filtrate.

[rashlan]

Ok, so after waiting for two weeks, I decided to try to speed the process up by putting the c60 olive oil in a blender. Is it possible that this would of damaged the C60 molecule? what would the draw backs be of putting it in a blender apart from oxidation of the oil?
Thanks Ash

[stephen_b]

Ash, to me that points out the benefit of using a mortar and pestle on just the C60. It speeds up the process without oxidizing the oil.

[rashlan]

I know, unfortunately I'm stuck with three litters of olive oil/c60 pre mixed . I was hoping that it would suffice as a stop gap until I can start a new batch, and start using the mortar and pestle technique.

[niner]

I know, unfortunately I'm stuck with three litters of olive oil/c60 pre mixed . I was hoping that it would suffice as a stop gap until I can start a new batch, and start using the mortar and pestle technique.

It would probably be better than nothing. If you could figure out a way to exclude oxygen, it might work great. That might range from an argon bath to something as simple as filling the blender all the way to the top with the olive oil mix. I have 750ml of olive oil with some very large c60 particles sitting in it, from back in the day before I discovered the miracle of the mortar and pestle. The stuff has been sitting around for about three months. I should go take a look at it and see if it ever dissolved. The second batch I made, in which I ground the C60, will probably last me for a couple years at the rate I'm using it. Maybe by then the first batch will be ready...

[rashlan]

Just thought I'd update. Since using the blender, the transition in colour seems to have been kicked into overdrive. I initially tried heating the oil but that seemed to have little effect.

[niner]

Just thought I'd update. Since using the blender, the transition in colour seems to have been kicked into overdrive. I initially tried heating the oil but that seemed to have little effect.

Wow, that was fast. It's consistent with what I saw with the mortar and pestle, where the process went from a timescale of "approximately never" to being finished in a couple days. I'll have to try that with my stalled batch. Thanks for the idea!

[ClarkSims]

Just thought I'd update. Since using the blender, the transition in colour seems to have been kicked into overdrive. I initially tried heating the oil but that seemed to have little effect.

When you blend the olive oil, how long do you leave on the blender?
Did you figure out a way to exclude oxygen?

I seem to remember that as a kid, my mom left a blender on for too long, and it overheated, and had to be replaced.

[rashlan]

I just left it on for a few minutes, turned it off for a bit and then repeated a couple of times. If I tried it again I'd probably just fill it completely, hoping that that was sufficient.

[free10]

OK, here is my idea from reading this. The unmixed stuff settles to the bottom mostly, so why not pour off most of it, and then just pour the last part with the junk in there into the blender and turn it on for a few minutes. This way those bottom particles get whacked but very little of the oil actually gets any additional oxygen since it was not in the blender. Now pour the little you just blended back into the main oil batch so the whacked mixed up particles can now mix into all that oil.

This by the way is my first post but I have been reading the post for a few months. I think the blender for those who did not crush the C60 first before adding it to the oil is a great idea. I started my first batch around Jan 10 2013 and didn't crush first. Its changing but slowly with a few shakes every day.