371 replies to this topic

[Freebytes]

To mix it I accidentally got it up to 120C when I wanted to get it to 80C.

I do not think it would be a problem at this temperature. If you increase the temperature to certain levels, though, the olive oil will denature. This temperature is really high for high quality oils, though.*

* http://www.oliveoils...ating-olive-oil

[ClarkSims]

https://www.google.c...iw=1536&bih=688

I thought I did this same search. I must have done a slightly different search. I don't know how I missed it.
Thanks,
Clark

[niner]

To mix it I accidentally got it up to 120C when I wanted to get it to 80C.

I do not think it would be a problem at this temperature. If you increase the temperature to certain levels, though, the olive oil will denature. This temperature is really high for high quality oils, though.*

* http://www.oliveoils...ating-olive-oil

In their experiment they found a high quality olive oil starting to smoke at 193C. The problem is that when it starts to smoke, it's completely going to hell, chemically. I worry about subtler damage that might occur at lower temps. For example, oxidation might get ramped up a lot, since reaction rates increase exponentially with temperature. There are probably papers on the temperature dependence of olive oil stability, somewhere.

[NanoDoom]

Would it be possible to extract the substances that require heating first, and then add the c60? That might be a little safer.
If you can heat it in a water bath without getting water in the oil, that will ensure that it stays at 100C, as long as it doesn't dry out. Three hours is a long time, and you might need to refill it.

Thanks for getting back to me on this.

Yes, absolutely, could the other compounds be extracted first.

And thinking about it, I don't need to heat it to 100c after all.
I could just do it @ 55-65c - but instead of hours for extraction,several days of slow heating.

I'm thinking of extracting curcumin, Fo-Ti, nettle root, saw palmetto etc in EVOO @ 60 celsius, or so, for, say, 6 days. Then strain through coffee filter.
Then add the above oil to a glass container, add the c60 fullerenes, put it in a cupboard @ room temperature, and let it dissolve for 3-5 weeks (or however long it will take),
Then filter again with a standard coffee filter.


What do you think? Good or bad idea?

[niner]

I'm thinking of extracting curcumin, Fo-Ti, nettle root, saw palmetto etc in EVOO @ 60 celsius, or so, for, say, 6 days. Then strain through coffee filter.
Then add the above oil to a glass container, add the c60 fullerenes, put it in a cupboard @ room temperature, and let it dissolve for 3-5 weeks (or however long it will take),
Then filter again with a standard coffee filter.

What do you think? Good or bad idea?

As I think about it some more, I'm going to say that it's at least a mildly bad idea to combine the other herbs with c60. There's no benefit that I can see from it, but something in the herbs might react with the c60 to produce a product that you'd rather not have. I think it would be better to separate the herb extract and the c60-oo. The dosing protocols are probably different, for one thing. You would probably want to take the herb extract 1-4 times a day, while c60-oo can be dosed at very long intervals. I take it 12 times a year, for example.

[NanoDoom]

As I think about it some more, I'm going to say that it's at least a mildly bad idea to combine the other herbs with c60. There's no benefit that I can see from it, but something in the herbs might react with the c60 to produce a product that you'd rather not have. I think it would be better to separate the herb extract and the c60-oo. The dosing protocols are probably different, for one thing. You would probably want to take the herb extract 1-4 times a day, while c60-oo can be dosed at very long intervals. I take it 12 times a year, for example.

Thanks.
But what I'm trying to create is a topical (to combat hair loss).
A creme/oil that will be applied directly to the hairline and thinning areas.

This is why I want to concentrate all active compounds as much as possible.
The skin can only take in so much.
Applying one one topical oil/creme, and then applying c60-oo on top of that will mean very bad absorption of the second oil (in this case c60-oo) as the skin is now already saturated by the first topical.

I'm already taking c60-oo orally.

[Turnbuckle]

But what I'm trying to create is a topical (to combat hair loss).
A creme/oil that will be applied directly to the hairline and thinning areas.

This is why I want to concentrate all active compounds as much as possible.

You might be interested in Luna's patent application--

[hav]

I also have a little battery powered aerolatte overhead stirrer that sells for about $20 or so. Really excels in quickly dissolving resveratrol in alcohol. Probably not so good for long mixes like c60 in oo but they do make a $75 stainless steel hot/cold jug mixer that runs on ac.

Howard

[NanoDoom]

But what I'm trying to create is a topical (to combat hair loss).
A creme/oil that will be applied directly to the hairline and thinning areas.

This is why I want to concentrate all active compounds as much as possible.

You might be interested in Luna's patent application--

Thanks.

They seem to be using pure c60 (no olive oil)
Should I be using pure c60 fullerene powder, you think?

Won't they react, once they get in contact with whatever vehicle I end up using?
I thought about DMSO... but I guess that playing with fire.

[Turnbuckle]

But what I'm trying to create is a topical (to combat hair loss).
A creme/oil that will be applied directly to the hairline and thinning areas.

This is why I want to concentrate all active compounds as much as possible.

You might be interested in Luna's patent application--

Thanks.

They seem to be using pure c60 (no olive oil)
Should I be using pure c60 fullerene powder, you think?

Won't they react, once they get in contact with whatever vehicle I end up using?
I thought about DMSO... but I guess that playing with fire.

No, they're using solvents as the particular functional groups they added are water (or oil) soluble.

If you go to the co-pending application they referenced--

[0041] In one embodiment, the fullerenes are water soluble, meaning the fullerenes distribute more or less uniformly in an aqueous solution and do not significantly precipitate. Water soluble fullerenes are known in the art as described above, and can be synthesized for example by attaching one or more hydrophilic chemical groups to the surface of the carbon cage. Suitable hydrophilic chemical groups include hydroxyl or polyhydroxyl groups and N-palyaminoethyl groups. Non-limiting examples of water soluble fullerenes include C.sub.60(OH).sub.n, C.sub.60(NH--CH.sub.2--CH.sub.3).sub.n, and compounds 7 10 and 12. Many other examples of water-soluble fullerenes are known and can involve the addition of one or more polar groups such as phosphates, sulfates, ammonium, carboxylates, or other charged groups; hydroxyl and polyhydroxyl groups; and carbohydrates, peptides, proteins, and DNA.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 09 April 2013 - 11:59 PM.

[niner]

They seem to be using pure c60 (no olive oil)
Should I be using pure c60 fullerene powder, you think?

Won't they react, once they get in contact with whatever vehicle I end up using?
I thought about DMSO... but I guess that playing with fire.

I don't think they use pure "pristine" c60. It's a substituted c60; that is, it has some other groups attached to it. I think it would be safest to go with olive oil. That way you'll end up with something that's at least in the ballpark of the compounds they're talking about. C60 will not necessarily react with everything it touches.

[ClarkSims]

I just bought the Martha Stewart mortar and pestle. It can easily hold a full litter of olive oil. I am grinding the c60 residue every day with the pestle, and covering it with cellophane when I am done.

It has a pour spout, so hopefully I won't end up with everything covered in olive oil, like I have in the past with the grind, and regrind method.

I just ordered a magnetic stirrer from http://www.mansionsc...hot-plates.html

I am hoping I will be able to put the mortar filled with OO, and covered with cellophane, and have it stir 24 hours per day.

[niner]

After I ground my c60 in a porcelain mortar, it was smeared all over, so I tried both scraping it off the porous surface, and eventually adding some evoo and grinding it. However, I only used a tablespoon or two of oil, certainly not a liter. Aside from the issue of getting it all out of the mortar, I found that grinding the c60 resulted in such rapid reaction that stirring just wasn't needed. (I didn't have a problem waiting a week or two.) I just put it all in a sealed bottle and shook it a couple times a day.

[Turnbuckle]

I just bought the Martha Stewart mortar and pestle. It can easily hold a full litter of olive oil. I am grinding the c60 residue every day with the pestle, and covering it with cellophane when I am done.

Best to grind it dry and add oil drop-wise at the very end of the grinding. More oil can be added to wash out the residual C60. A stainless mortar is definitely best for this purpose.

[hav]

I just bought the Martha Stewart mortar and pestle. It can easily hold a full litter of olive oil. I am grinding the c60 residue every day with the pestle, and covering it with cellophane when I am done.

Best to grind it dry and add oil drop-wise at the very end of the grinding. More oil can be added to wash out the residual C60. A stainless mortar is definitely best for this purpose.

That's the technique I used when I tried it. I used a porcelain full contact mortar and pestle and continued washing adding oil until most of the liter of oil I was working with was in and out of the mortar. It never totally cleaned the porcelain, however, so I agree that stainless steel would be way better. Afterwards, I mixed with a magnetic stirrer anyway and noticed a faster color change to the oil... less than an hour to get the color and lack of visible c60 grains spinning around that I usually didn't see until after a couple of days. But in the end, after the usual 2 weeks of mixing, my filter showed the same amount of residue as without the grinding. So I've opted to just stick with the 2 weeks of magnetic stirring and skip the grinding. Mainly because I don't have time or production pressures, mixing only for myself, and I'm not sure that if I cut the mixing time down too much, how I'd be able to tell whether there was micronized c60 in suspension eluding the filter.

Howard

[Turnbuckle]

...But in the end, after the usual 2 weeks of mixing, my filter showed the same amount of residue as without the grinding. So I've opted to just stick with the 2 weeks of magnetic stirring and skip the grinding. Mainly because I don't have time or production pressures, mixing only for myself, and I'm not sure that if I cut the mixing time down too much, how I'd be able to tell whether there was micronized c60 in suspension eluding the filter.

Howard

What concentration are you shooting for? With .7mg/ml, I see very little residue after three days stirring.

[hav]

Slightly higher, .8 mg/ml. The residue is barely visible on the filter but if I take a piece of paper towel and wipe the top of the filter its pretty evident. Guess that's actually not bad after starting with 800 mg of c60.

Howard

[Raza]

I'm wondering if my C60-mixes are still busy reacting, and whether they'll finish at all at this rate.

We mixed them well over a month ago. For the first while, the oil was rapidly getting redder... but for the past three, four weeks, I'm having difficulty spotting any differences. The oil is clearly redder than it was, but also still yellowish when you only look through a little of it near the edges of the bottle. The remaining C60 particles at the bottom aren't clearly getting any fewer.

We mixed 500gs into 750mls each. I'm thinking of buying another bottle of oil and filling them up to 1l again, hoping that'll speed things up.

Experiences, insights, anyone?

[niner]

Slightly higher, .8 mg/ml. The residue is barely visible on the filter but if I take a piece of paper towel and wipe the top of the filter its pretty evident. Guess that's actually not bad after starting with 800 mg of c60.

Sounds pretty good. I wonder if the non-dissolving component is non-fullerene carbon? It sounds like there's very little of it, so the quantity is reasonable. I don't think it's necessary to go up to 0.8mg/ml. All that really matters is that you consume it, regardless of concentration. It's easier to make the lower concentration mixtures.

I'm wondering if my C60-mixes are still busy reacting, and whether they'll finish at all at this rate.

We mixed them well over a month ago. For the first while, the oil was rapidly getting redder... but for the past three, four weeks, I'm having difficulty spotting any differences. The oil is clearly redder than it was, but also still yellowish when you only look through a little of it near the edges of the bottle. The remaining C60 particles at the bottom aren't clearly getting any fewer.

We mixed 500gs into 750mls each. I'm thinking of buying another bottle of oil and filling them up to 1l again, hoping that'll speed things up.

Experiences, insights, anyone?

If you have any large particles, they take forever to react if you aren't using a stirrer. They do eventually react, on the order of months. If it doesn't seem to be getting any darker, it's probably done enough to use, even if there are some particles left in the bottom. Just draw some off the top if you want to start using it. The lower concentrations just don't look very dark when you aren't looking through a lot of material. In a tablespoon measure, for example, mine looks kind of whiskey-colored. If I look through a clear glass 750ml bottle of it with a bright light behind it, it has the characteristic deep magenta-red color.

You mentioned that you only got 300mg back out of the porcelain mortar. Did you use less oil with it, or was the idea to try to react it out of the mortar using olive oil, and make 750ml of a hopefully close to 500mg amount? My experience was similar, with getting the shiny metallic smear in a porcelain mortar. After scraping, I ground with some olive oil, but I don't know how much I ended up with. Next time I'll probably crush it on a sheet of glass using something very non-porous, then scrape it up with a razor blade. My first half gram batch wasn't ground at all; I just dumped it in the oil. It was going nowhere after a few weeks of daily shaking, so I ground the other half gram and made another batch. It reacted in short order, but I don't think I worried if there were a few particles on the bottom. The first batch has just been sitting on a shelf, undisturbed for 5 or 6 months now. I looked at it recently, and it looks like it's done now. So I guess if you wait looooong enough, the big crystals will eventually dissolve.

[mikela]

I just bought the Martha Stewart mortar and pestle. It can easily hold a full litter of olive oil. I am grinding the c60 residue every day with the pestle, and covering it with cellophane when I am done.

Best to grind it dry and add oil drop-wise at the very end of the grinding. More oil can be added to wash out the residual C60. A stainless mortar is definitely best for this purpose.

I had good success with this approach. I just ground .25 g of 99.95 SES until it was smeared into the sides of the stainless steel...no real way to dump any powder out. I then just added about an ounce of Trader Joe's California Estates EVOO and ground some more until it picked up a significant amount of the C60. I poured it into a mason jar and repeated the procedure about 5 or 6 times until the EVOO showed no more residue. I then poured the rest of the EVOO in for a total of 500 ml. This worked really well compared to my prior attempt with spoons. The mixture has been settling for awhile and there is practically no residue in the bottom of the mason jar.

[Raza]

If you have any large particles, they take forever to react if you aren't using a stirrer. They do eventually react, on the order of months. If it doesn't seem to be getting any darker, it's probably done enough to use, even if there are some particles left in the bottom. Just draw some off the top if you want to start using it. The lower concentrations just don't look very dark when you aren't looking through a lot of material. In a tablespoon measure, for example, mine looks kind of whiskey-colored. If I look through a clear glass 750ml bottle of it with a bright light behind it, it has the characteristic deep magenta-red color.

You mentioned that you only got 300mg back out of the porcelain mortar. Did you use less oil with it, or was the idea to try to react it out of the mortar using olive oil, and make 750ml of a hopefully close to 500mg amount? My experience was similar, with getting the shiny metallic smear in a porcelain mortar. After scraping, I ground with some olive oil, but I don't know how much I ended up with. Next time I'll probably crush it on a sheet of glass using something very non-porous, then scrape it up with a razor blade. My first half gram batch wasn't ground at all; I just dumped it in the oil. It was going nowhere after a few weeks of daily shaking, so I ground the other half gram and made another batch. It reacted in short order, but I don't think I worried if there were a few particles on the bottom. The first batch has just been sitting on a shelf, undisturbed for 5 or 6 months now. I looked at it recently, and it looks like it's done now. So I guess if you wait looooong enough, the big crystals will eventually dissolve.

The particles shouldn't be very big. Both batches were crushed, one of them very finely in the mortar, but I see no obvious difference in reaction rate.

The bottle with the finely crushed 300mg contains roughly 450mls of olive oil; the remaining 300mls are in the mortar, so the C60/OO ratio is roughly the same everywhere, and we do hope to eventually pour the mortar-oil into the mortar-bottle for a complete-ish batch

Both of my bottles sound similar to your finished one color wise - it's not quite magenta, but a pretty sound red if you look through the whole bottle against a white light - but the remaining C60 is definitely more than a little residue.

I'm not sure what to make of it. From your descriptions, the reaction of fine C60 should've been a bit quicker than this. Unreacted OO probably hasn't run out, potential things dissolved in my brand of olive oil shouldn't even matter if we're talking reaction rather than dissolution (I think?)... is it a reversible reaction, the balance of which might shift under different conditions?

Anyway, I've got two options; add more oil or wait longer. Either will probably work out, so I'm still optimistic. =)

[ClarkSims]

I need to buy a scale, and some beakers. I like the 1 litter beakers, though a 2 litter beaker might be good also.
I want to do some solubility studies. I want to measure the solubility of COQ10, resveratrol, Curcumin and R-alpha lipoic acid in olive oil, and flax seed oil.

Does anyone have a suggestion where is a good place to buy a scale?

I just ordered bulk powder for those 4 chemicals from purebulk.com. They sell scales, but I forgot to add it to the cart. Then I thought I should probably get a recommendation before I buy anything.

Thanks,

Clark

[mpe]

To avoid light and to keep 'stirring' my solution, I have been carrying the solution in my pocket. I have a habit of 'jittering my leg' so I suspect this will have a positive impact. I have made four vials of C60oo with a concentration of 100mg in 20ml which is 5mg/ml. I was going to use this as a skin treatment to observe the results. I put one vial in my pocket for a couple days, but I also wanted to use an oral dosage so I made a new vial that was 30mg/30ml (1mg/ml).

The vial that was 100mg/20ml was kept in my pocket for about two days, but it has now been sitting in a dark box for about 5 days. I am now carrying around the 30mg/30ml vial. Anyway, the main reason I switched was because I was concerned about it taking FOREVER for any changes to appear to take place so I thought I would start with a lower concentration first. However, an interesting observation: The vial that I carried that was high concentration is crimson red. Whereas, the other three high concentration vials that I carried around show almost no change from their original color. Therefore, any kind of disturbance of the solution is certainly beneficial, and you should be sure to stir the contents of the vial whenever possible.

I tried carrying 100 ml of my mixture around for a couple of days as well, it became a darker brown but not red.
Today I placed 3 100ml bottles of C60oo into a saucepan of water and set the temperature on the stove to its lowest level. The water became hot but not boiling and I left it on for 6 hours then allowed it to cool to room temperature before checking again.
The colour has finally changed from dirty brown to whiskey.
I gave it a taste test, the mixture has a much stronger and sharper taste than Carbon's C60, which by comparison is rather woody ( not a criticism ).
I think I'll treat the rest of my mixture the same way, freeze one bottle and keep the rest in the fridge until its needed.

Between myself, wife, family and some friends, I have now used up my first 1.5 litres of C60oo, but rather than spend so much time and effort shaking I have purchased a heated magnetic stirrer.

I have also purchased 2 litres of olive oil and 5 grams of C60 and am currently mixing up a new 1 litre batch.
Like the first batch this will have 650mg per litre, I've even purchased some digital scales to ensure correct measurement.Once again I crushed the C60 with 2 spoons to help speed the process.

The process is going well, but I only have the supplied stirring bar and i feel I am having to run the machine at too high a speed to achieve a clearly visible rotating mixture. Tonight I have ordered a 3.5" mixing bar on EBay, then I think i can turn the machine down to a more acceptable speed. The machine only came with a 1" mixing bar.
The magnetic stirrer whilst heated doesn't come with a temp probe so i have set it so its warm but not hot to the touch.
I have sealed the beaker with cling wrap to prevent bugs, dirt etc from getting in, and have set up everything in my garage where light can be kept to a minimum.

This time round I have purchased 99.9 not 99.95 C60 from SES, not for the price so much as the extra mixing time involved, as we have all but run out of the first batch.

I can honestly say that my families experience with the C60oo have been completely positive, as have those of friends who I have gotten to try the concoction, in fact they are the reason I have to make up the new batch so soon.

Mike

[hav]

Tonight I have ordered a 3.5" mixing bar on EBay, then I think i can turn the machine down to a more acceptable speed. The machine only came with a 1" mixing bar.
The magnetic stirrer whilst heated doesn't come with a temp probe so i have set it so its warm but not hot to the touch.

Curious how you make out with that mixing bar. I've has the best luck mixing 1 liter batches with a slightly thicker and longer than stock bar. It's 1-1/2 inches long and slightly more than 3/8 inch thick. The stock one was 1 inch long and barely 1/4 inch think. I tried some 2 x 1/4 inch ones but they tended to end up bouncing around after a while.

I think you are the only one who has mentioned using a heated mixer. Curious what the temperature is. At some point you might want to stick a thermometer in the solution and measure it.

Howard

[tintinet]

I'm into liter 4, all by myself, but I really haven't noticed much effect. I've used 99.95% C60 from SES. Maybe I'll try the 99.5% purity version for the next batch.

[niner]

... but rather than spend so much time and effort shaking I have purchased a heated magnetic stirrer.

[...]

This time round I have purchased 99.9 not 99.95 C60 from SES, not for the price so much as the extra mixing time involved, as we have all but run out of the first batch.

I don't recommend using any heat. You really want to keep the oxidation of both the oil and the c60 to a minimum, and heat will speed up the process exponentially. You can get a substantial speed-up in creating c60-oo if you use a very finely ground c60. Sarah Vaughter bought an expensive micronizing machine just for that purpose.

While the 99.9% dissolves faster than the 99.95, if you both grind it and use a mechanical stirrer, the 99.95 should react pretty quickly, if you want to be on the safe side, contaminant-wise.

[mpe]

Tonight I have ordered a 3.5" mixing bar on EBay, then I think i can turn the machine down to a more acceptable speed. The machine only came with a 1" mixing bar.
The magnetic stirrer whilst heated doesn't come with a temp probe so i have set it so its warm but not hot to the touch.

Curious how you make out with that mixing bar. I've has the best luck mixing 1 liter batches with a slightly thicker and longer than stock bar. It's 1-1/2 inches long and slightly more than 3/8 inch thick. The stock one was 1 inch long and barely 1/4 inch think. I tried some 2 x 1/4 inch ones but they tended to end up bouncing around after a while.

I think you are the only one who has mentioned using a heated mixer. Curious what the temperature is. At some point you might want to stick a thermometer in the solution and measure it.

Howard

Thanks for your advice, I'll look for some shorter bars and see which one gives the best result.

Mike

[mpe]

... but rather than spend so much time and effort shaking I have purchased a heated magnetic stirrer.

[...]

This time round I have purchased 99.9 not 99.95 C60 from SES, not for the price so much as the extra mixing time involved, as we have all but run out of the first batch.

I don't recommend using any heat. You really want to keep the oxidation of both the oil and the c60 to a minimum, and heat will speed up the process exponentially. You can get a substantial speed-up in creating c60-oo if you use a very finely ground c60. Sarah Vaughter bought an expensive micronizing machine just for that purpose.

While the 99.9% dissolves faster than the 99.95, if you both grind it and use a mechanical stirrer, the 99.95 should react pretty quickly, if you want to be on the safe side, contaminant-wise.

When I made my first batch, it was early Spring, my garage was about 10 deg C and i eventually had to move the mixture to my upstairs bedroom to get a consistent temp in the low 20s. In the end after about 2 months of shaking at these low temperatures I heated it on my stove to get the colour change to happen and the visible particles to disappear. Its now winter and the garage is cooler still and i dont want to hear the whining noise the stirrer makes.

This time around after spooning the C60 (crushing it between 2 spoons) and using a warm heated magnetic stirrer I have a mixture which wa turning red within a day, in a colder enviroment than my previous effort.
Clearly finding the best way to dissolve the C60 in my home environment is a work in progress and I only post about it for the benefit of those who may be considering doing the same.

Thanks for your comments guys, I do read and consider them, I do value them.

Mike

PS

I'll get a temp probe to to measure it with, what temp would you think I should try?

Edited by mpe, 21 June 2013 - 11:37 PM.

[mait]

Hello,

I have question about the filtering of C60 solution. What is the best filter material to use in this kind of application: NYLON, PTFE (polytetrafluoroethylene) or MCE(mixed cellulose ester)? I plan to use use 25mm syringe filters.

[pleb]

from most of the earlier posts on here from those that have been using it for some time, most don't bother filtering it, the small amount of impurities in even the lowest grade of C60 ( SES 99.5 ) have not found any trouble the body passes impurities out easily