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Equipment: mixing, centrifuging and filtering

mixer centrifuge filter

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#301 thedarkbobo

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:02 AM

 

I have a question. I am making my first batch of C60 in completely air-tight bottle and I have left very little unfilled area in the bottle. Now after 48h of stirring I see that dissolvement rate of C60 is quite a bit slower than usual. Should I open the bottle and let it "breathe" once over a 2 to 3 days or is it OK as it is by now. I am using 370ml of EVOO and 100mg of C60 in current mix.


(..)

I'm developing a concern that c60-oo is somewhat air-sensitive, and think it would be safer to store it with as little oxygen as is practical. I'd REALLY like to see some serious lab work done to characterize exactly what chemical species are in c60-oo, and to really nail down their sensitivity to heat, light, and O2.

 

 

Yup same here, I think of possible solution for making big batches (1,5L in my case):

fill 1,5L container leaving some air and mix C60 in it for a day or two and then pour it to ->

 2*0,5L containers to maximum, leaving nearly no air, and fill 10*50ml or 5*100ml bottles, then shake and leave them in dark place, and only after emptying all small bottles take 0,5L one and pour to small ones. That way 1L should have very little air and light contact before you use it.

 



#302 niner

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:49 AM

 

 

I have a question. I am making my first batch of C60 in completely air-tight bottle and I have left very little unfilled area in the bottle. Now after 48h of stirring I see that dissolvement rate of C60 is quite a bit slower than usual. Should I open the bottle and let it "breathe" once over a 2 to 3 days or is it OK as it is by now. I am using 370ml of EVOO and 100mg of C60 in current mix.

(..)
I'm developing a concern that c60-oo is somewhat air-sensitive, and think it would be safer to store it with as little oxygen as is practical. I'd REALLY like to see some serious lab work done to characterize exactly what chemical species are in c60-oo, and to really nail down their sensitivity to heat, light, and O2.

 

Yup same here [...]

 

I've now had a chance to try making a batch where I tried to keep oxygen exposure to a minimum, within reason.  I used 99.95% crystals from SES, and added them directly to olive oil without grinding.  I used a 500ml flask that was filled nearly to the top and stoppered, so there was very little air space.  This was stirred in the dark for a very long time.  I think it took about three weeks to fully react, although it was the first time I'd used that particular stirrer/flask setup, and I may have run it too slow for a while.  At any rate, it didn't react quickly, and that's consistent with what mait reported above.  I stored it in 60ml brown glass bottles with polyseal caps and no airspace.  I used one immediately, and froze the rest for later use. 

 

I've been using the low-oxygen batch for a couple months now, and it's different than other c60oo I've used.  In particular, it has lost the anti-eczema / anti-allergy effect that I've seen from other batches, both commercial and homemade.    I'd had an earlier experience with the tenuous nature of the anti-eczema effect- I was seeing it from my first batch, in which the c6O was ground in air, but after some months the effect faded.  I suspected that was due to the horrible way that I was storing it, stoppered with a cork in a large half-full clear glass bottle (not in bright light, but not dark) at room temperature.  I bought a new bottle of commercial c60oo, and my eczema cleared up again, so it wasn't a case of me becoming insensitive to the compound, rather the activity dropping off in my poorly-stored sample.   I should note that the other activities I've seen from c60oo (improved endurance, resistance to postural hypotension, change in response to alcohol) still seem to be present in the low-oxygen batch.

 

My current thinking is that oxygen is required for the formation of the anti-eczema activity, but that extended exposure to oxygen (possibly and/or light exposure and/or room temperture) causes "the activity" to be destroyed.   The most likely explanation is that there are two (or more) different compounds being formed, and that they have different biological properties, one of which is "the activity".  C6O surfaces form epoxides pretty easily when exposed to air, and these epoxides can react with other compounds.  There are other reactions that could occur between c6O and the fatty acid chains in vegetable oils, which don't necessarily involve oxygen, such as a Diels-Alder condensation.  Perhaps such reactions are slower, and they would almost certainly result in different products. 

 

I'm now finishing up a batch that used the same c6O and the same oil, but the c60 was ground in air (using a mortar and pestle) and the flask was half full, occasionally shaken.  If I find that this batch has the anti-eczema activity, then I'll be on the road to better understanding this.  If not, more experiments will be needed.  This batch reacted quickly, and has a nice deep red color.   One difference in this batch that I don't think is important, but that I note for completeness, is that the concentration is different.  The low-O2 batch was 0.5mg/ml, and this one will be 0.9 if it fully reacts.  My earlier high-O2 batch that had the activity was a lower concentration, approximately 0.6mg/ml.  I'll report my results with the new high-O2 batch in a couple weeks.

 

On a different topic, you might notice that I've written "C6O" with the letter O instead of the character zero.  I'm doing this to suppress those automatic links, which I find distracting. 


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#303 mait

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:07 AM

I have updated protocol a little. I use 187mg SES 99.95% C60 in 750ml of olive oil. This lower concentration mix solves in 5-7 days, so I do not have to mix it for weeks. I filter it with vacuum pump and Nalgene CN filter with 0.20um pore size. After which I put the filtrate in smaller airtight glass bottles and put surplus lot in freezer. lot in freezer.

 

My dosing sweet spot has settled on 5d on 2 days off schedule with dosage of 7.5mg of C60 per day on "on days".


Edited by mait, 27 July 2014 - 10:09 AM.

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#304 pampoenkop

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:30 PM

...

 

I've now had a chance to try making a batch where I tried to keep oxygen exposure to a minimum, within reason.  I used 99.95% crystals from SES, and added them directly to olive oil without grinding.  I used a 500ml flask that was filled nearly to the top and stoppered, so there was very little air space.  This was stirred in the dark for a very long time.  I think it took about three weeks to fully react, although it was the first time I'd used that particular stirrer/flask setup, and I may have run it too slow for a while.  At any rate, it didn't react quickly, and that's consistent with what mait reported above.  I stored it in 60ml brown glass bottles with polyseal caps and no airspace.  I used one immediately, and froze the rest for later use. 

 

...

 

Did you perform the filtering step on this batch?

 

I am currently busy getting the minimum list of equipment necessary to start making my own batch.



#305 niner

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:14 PM

 

...

 

I've now had a chance to try making a batch where I tried to keep oxygen exposure to a minimum, within reason.  I used 99.95% crystals from SES, and added them directly to olive oil without grinding.  I used a 500ml flask that was filled nearly to the top and stoppered, so there was very little air space.  This was stirred in the dark for a very long time.  I think it took about three weeks to fully react, although it was the first time I'd used that particular stirrer/flask setup, and I may have run it too slow for a while.  At any rate, it didn't react quickly, and that's consistent with what mait reported above.  I stored it in 60ml brown glass bottles with polyseal caps and no airspace.  I used one immediately, and froze the rest for later use. 

 

...

 

Did you perform the filtering step on this batch?

 

I am currently busy getting the minimum list of equipment necessary to start making my own batch.

 

Yes, I forgot to mention that.  I vacuum filtered using a 0.22 micron filter.  I didn't filter my earlier batches- they were completely low tech, which seemed to work fine.



#306 Thell

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 10:13 PM

niner,

Do you have an update on your post #302?

 

Great thread! Why did it die so suddenly?!?!

 



#307 niner

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 05:10 AM

niner,

Do you have an update on your post #302?

 

Great thread! Why did it die so suddenly?!?!

 

Yes, I do.  The higher-oxygen batch might have been a bit better at first, but didn't seem to be what I was looking for.  Later, I started taking it more frequently, and I think that might be the answer.  My eczema is completely gone again.  At the moment I'm using about 10 ml once a week.  For a long time I was a proponent of long dosing intervals (once a month), for hypothetical reasons that I now think were in error.  I was thrown off the track because so many of the other activities of c60oo were maintained just fine with monthly dosing, but apparently the anti-eczema activity needs to be dosed more often.  In retrospect, this makes some sense, since it's probably receptor-mediated, while most of the other effects depend on c60oo being resident in the mitochondrial membranes.  Once it gets incorporated in the membrane, it will stay for a long time, but the receptor-mediated effects probably need to be topped off more often.

 

If this is really nothing more than a dose-frequency problem, then my wild goose chase was quite the blunder learning experience.

 

Great threads never die.  They just go to sleep for a while.  Sometimes they go into cryo-stasis, but eventually someone will necro them.


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#308 mait

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 11:29 AM

Hello,

 

I may have hit the way to get my C60 in EVOO solution more in purplish colour than usual!

 

I mix 0.8mg of C60 per 1 ml of EVOO. Usually I use 500ml of EVOO and 400mg of C60. I put it into glass jar with volume of 2 litres. The key seems to not grind the C60 but instead use very high rpm settings on magnetic stirrer – I use 1000 rpm, which results vortex of olive oil almost touching the bottom of glass jar. I seal the jar with “semi” air tight silicone seal but open the jar 2-3 per week during the stirring period of 2 weeks. After 2 weeks I end up with no visible residue left at the bottom of the glass jar.

I use 99.95+ pure vacuum oven dried C60 from SES Research. 


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#309 niner

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 12:41 PM

I may have hit the way to get my C60 in EVOO solution more in purplish colour than usual!

 

I mix 0.8mg of C60 per 1 ml of EVOO. Usually I use 500ml of EVOO and 400mg of C60. I put it into glass jar with volume of 2 litres. The key seems to not grind the C60 but instead use very high rpm settings on magnetic stirrer – I use 1000 rpm, which results vortex of olive oil almost touching the bottom of glass jar. I seal the jar with “semi” air tight silicone seal but open the jar 2-3 per week during the stirring period of 2 weeks. After 2 weeks I end up with no visible residue left at the bottom of the glass jar.

I use 99.95+ pure vacuum oven dried C60 from SES Research. 

 

Very interesting, mait!  A different color being formed means that there is something chemically different in the mix.  In this case, I think that the fast stirring with a vortex in a large-volume container means that more air was getting into the mix.   The fullerene surface can react with oxygen to create epoxides, and the unsaturated fatty acids can react with oxygen to form peroxides.  These peroxy compounds can go on to react with the fullerene, forming one type of adduct.  There's probably more than one way for an unsaturated hydrocarbon to bind to c60.  It's been reported that dienes go through a peroxy intermediate, and while that seems unlikely for mono-ene (like oleic acid), we know that pure ethyl oleate will take up a substantially larger amount of c60 than olive oil will, based on experiments that our member hav (Howard) did.

 

At any rate, the amount of oxygen and the way that the fullerene and oil are exposed to it appear to be playing a significant role, resulting in a different spectrum of compounds with different activity.  With regards to that activity, I recently ran out of the batch I'd made with air exposure, in which I found the anti-eczema effect to be present, once I went back to weekly dosing.  I had some frozen bottles of the earlier batch, made under low-oxygen conditions, and started using that again, now using a weekly interval.  Results?  The eczema is back.  Thus the anti-eczema effect requires not only frequent dosing, but also oxygen exposure.  If high oxygen exposure leads to a more purple color, and my experience with a more purple commercial oil was that it had a better anti-inflammatory/anti-eczema effect than my own, it's starting to look like the anti-inflammatory activity lies in an oxo-compound that is purple.


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#310 Huckfinn

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 12:57 PM

I started making (the low tech way) C60OO 10 days ago.

0.8mg 99.95% grinded C60 from SES in a Lt of VOO.

The bottle is 1lt, so very little oxygen.

Shaking every day, twice a day.

It got amber in colour the following day and is still like that....

Too early??

 

Also, I was wondering: as I currently take C60OO from Vaughter Wellness: how come it's not purple but that too is amber?

..........Does anybody know?

 



#311 pleb

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 01:30 PM

Possibly not ground enough. I've had varying times changing from Amber to purple then red. All seemed to be down to how much I ground it at the time even though the texture felt the same and the granular feeling seemed to have gone the time to change still varied.
with the SV mix your only looking at a small amount in the Pipete so the colour your seeing is correct for just a small amount. It's all down to light refraction through the mix the deeper the amount your looking through the different the colour that the eye sees.

#312 Huckfinn

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 01:34 PM

Right, thanks.

So the pipette principle applies to the bottle?

Because my mixture seems amber at the neck but reddish down at the "fat" end...



#313 pleb

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 01:43 PM

Yes the neck is a smaller depth that your looking through compared to lower down in the bottle.

#314 Huckfinn

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 01:47 PM

Ok,

I was just wondering how to know when it's all diluted and ready, as the C60 particles seem to be very difficult to find within my glass bottle........



#315 pleb

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 01:58 PM

If it hasn't all mixed after it has stood for a few hours you will see the unmixed C60 settling in the bottom. if you can't see any or only a tiny amount you can be sure it's okay. Once it's mixed fully you won't see it in the bottle as the particles are to small to see with the naked eye.
I turn the bottle upside down to shake it especially in the first few days because of it settling in the bottom.

#316 Huckfinn

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 02:01 PM

Well, that means mine did get ready quite quickly then!

...I remember reading here somewhere that the one you prepared was also ready in just a week or two, if I'm not wrong..



#317 pleb

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 02:12 PM

Yes I've made about five litres in total over about 2-1/2 years using a small electronic scale .4 of a gram in half litre bottles. The oil turned Amber or light brown straight away then with the better ground stuff purple in about 12 hours and red after about 4 days.
If I've been a bit idle grinding. turning purple and then red can take twice as long as the Times mentioned.

Edited by pleb, 25 March 2015 - 02:13 PM.


#318 Heisenburger

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 10:52 PM

I’m getting ready to whip up a fresh 1.250 liter batch sometime today or tomorrow. In the past, I haven’t filtered it. But I’m seeing visible sediment at the bottom of my bottles every time I make it, which is somewhat alarming. So I went ahead and bought the equipment necessary to filter it. I obtained everything I need (an SEOH filtration kit and a 100-pack of 22-micron quantitative filter paper), but I can’t afford an automatic pump right now. Would hooking up the flask to a FoodSaver canister vacuum work? The fittings on the FoodSaver unit and the fitting on the Erlenmeyer flask are all quarter-inch, so it would be easy to do. Would the FoodSaver be powerful enough to produce a sufficiently vacuous vacuum, or should I go to Pep Boys and pick up a hand pump?



#319 niner

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 02:00 AM

It doesn't take a super-powerful vacuum.  I use a hand pump, which works.  I use it around 400mm vacuum (I guess that's 360 torr absolute pressure), and could go lower but I'd run the risk of cracking the thin plastic flasks that I'm using.  I looked around on the net and it looks like foodsavers can pull a pretty decent vacuum-- it should be fine.



#320 Heisenburger

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 09:20 PM

I looked around on the net and it looks like foodsavers can pull a pretty decent vacuum

 

Where did you find this information? I Googled it for almost an hour and came up with nothing. 



#321 niner

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 03:14 AM

 

I looked around on the net and it looks like foodsavers can pull a pretty decent vacuum

 

Where did you find this information? I Googled it for almost an hour and came up with nothing. 

 

Of all places, YouTube.  There are several videos where guys put a vacuum gauge on a foodsaver.  I googled "how many mm hg from foodsaver" (without quotes) and got a bunch of valid hits, the very first one being a youtube vid.



#322 Heisenburger

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 10:27 PM

Of all places, YouTube.  There are several videos where guys put a vacuum gauge on a foodsaver.  I googled "how many mm hg from foodsaver" (without quotes) and got a bunch of valid hits, the very first one being a youtube vid.

 

I’ve hit the 15-day mark on the magnetic stirrer, so I’m going to filter it sometime today or tomorrow. I’ve only taken one laboratory chemistry course in my entire life, so I’ve never done this before. What is the best way to proceed? If I just lay the paper on the bottom of the Buchner funnel and start pouring the stuff in, is the paper going to float to the top and allow the oil to just fall through the holes unfiltered? Should I wet the paper with OO first to make sure that it adheres to the bottom of the filter? Should I start the suction before I start decanting the oil as a means of “locking” the paper into place? Anybody know of a particularly good YouTube video that could walk me through the process before I start?

 



#323 niner

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 10:50 PM

Wetting the filter paper with a small amount of olive oil should do it.  It wouldn't hurt to put a little suction on it before you start to decant, but it's probably not necessary.    Good luck!



#324 Heisenburger

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 07:14 AM

Good luck!

 

Well, it worked for the most part, as you can see from the video. It pulled 200 milliliters through just fine in about half a minute. There’s a couple of tweaks that I think I’ll make on the next batch, though. Instead of saturating the filter by submersing it completely in olive oil, I sprayed it with a can my roomie happened to have in the cupboard. This caused the filter to curl up at the edges like a potato chip, sort of giving the opposite effect of the one I was after. Instead of laying flat on the bottom of the Buchner funnel, the oil was allowed to partially slide under the curled portions of the filter and fall straight through the holes. So next time I’ll try completely saturating the filter and see if that changes anything. I’d also feel more comfortable if the filter lined the entire inside of the funnel like a coffee filter, as opposed to being just a flat disc which rests on the bottom of the funnel. I’m going to see if I can find some sort of miniature coffee filter that will fit the inside of the Buchner funnel and sit on top of the disc. This would have the advantage that there would be no question that all of the oil passes through a filter, and it would also double-filter the oil.



#325 Turnbuckle

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 11:58 AM

 

Well, it worked for the most part, as you can see from the video. It pulled 200 milliliters through just fine in about half a minute. 

 

 

It's fast because you are using a 22 micron filter, while the rat paper used a 0.22 micron filter, which will remove particles one million times smaller (by volume).



#326 Heisenburger

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 07:10 PM

Oh. Shit. You’re right. As the old expression goes, “it’s back to the drawing board.” Maybe I can get a job at NASA crash-landing rovers on distant planets or something. :unsure:



#327 Heisenburger

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Posted 07 January 2016 - 07:37 AM

OK, let’s try this one again, from the top. Now filtering using a 0.20-micron filter instead of a 22-micron filter. This stuff has been spinning continuously for almost five weeks now. Those Benchmark stirrers really cut the mustard. As you can see, it’s basically a trickle. That’s a one-liter bottle, and it took about an hour to fill. I thought for sure that I was going to blow up the Foodsaver pump. At one point I could smell the motor overheating, so I gave it a rest and resumed later. Definitely going to have to invest in a heavier-duty pump if I plan to do this again.

 


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#328 bixbyte

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 07:53 AM

OK, let’s try this one again, from the top. Now filtering using a 0.20-micron filter instead of a 22-micron filter. This stuff has been spinning continuously for almost five weeks now. Those Benchmark stirrers really cut the mustard. As you can see, it’s basically a trickle. That’s a one-liter bottle, and it took about an hour to fill. I thought for sure that I was going to blow up the Foodsaver pump. At one point I could smell the motor overheating, so I gave it a rest and resumed later. Definitely going to have to invest in a heavier-duty pump if I plan to do this again.

 

 

 

 

Attached File  Screenshot from 2016-01-09 02:46:24.png   340.6KB   5 downloads

 

I use this pump and it takes 1-1/2 hours to filter 250 ML 



#329 niner

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 02:52 AM

I use a hand pump like bixbyte, but mine is a different brand, the Actron CP7830.  It's worked well for me.   You can pump it down to a reasonable vacuum then just leave it for a while while the oil slowly runs through the filter.  Last time I looked it was $35 at Amazo n. 



#330 Victorino

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 09:34 AM

Does anyone have any insights or opinion on using macadamia oil rather than EVOO?

It’s hard to be sure that store-bought EVOO is not rancid, whereas macadamia is much more stable and one would not have to worry about such. Being mostly monounsaturated, macadamia is the most stable of liquid-at-room-temperature oils.

 

I wonder if this stability might make it less efficient at dissolving the C60, or if there might be other problems with its use. 







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