1725 replies to this topic

[ScienceGuy]

For those who are interested here is the FULL TEXT for the published clinical study on PRL-8-53 (DOWNLOADABLE)

Attached Files

•  PRL-8-53 Enhanced Learning and Subsequent Retention in Humans as a Result of Low Oral Doses of New Psychotropic Agent.pdf   363.49KB   94 downloads

[Adaptogen]

This is great, I am very excited to see everyone's results from this.

I found this quote from the study interesting: "the subgroup of high achievers fails to show significant improvement across the board. It must be kept in mind, however, that it is near impossible to obtain significant improvement figures when the control performance is near perfect to begin with."

[Reformed-Redan]

Still I would sure like to have a working memory able to manipulate 22 digits. I'm a math major so just the possibility of this is worth exploring.

[ScienceGuy]

And HERE is the FULL TEXT for the published clinical study on PRL-8-53, for those who can't DOWNLOAD IT for some reason or other:

NOTE: Click a page to enlarge it

Edited by ScienceGuy, 12 April 2013 - 07:09 PM.

[banderlog]

The study does look very promising, but why has there not (seemingly) been a followup? Has the compound been given another ID?

Please excuse my scepticism - I am very intrigued by the results in the article but there is literally no other information to be found.

[alecnevsky]

The study does look very promising, but why has there not (seemingly) been a followup? Has the compound been given another ID?

Please excuse my scepticism - I am very intrigued by the results in the article but there is literally no other information to be found.

Yeah I can't imagine scholarly Alzheimer's researchers miss something like this. Either that, or they tested it, said it was bs and started going AMPAkine research.

[Adam90]

Aren't many negative or 'unimpressive' results withheld from publishing? Especially in those days..

[alecnevsky]

Aren't many negative or 'unimpressive' results withheld from publishing? Especially in those days..

If publication bias is the case, then that just strengthens the argument. Meaning, the first study had a sign effect (which is quite common on meta-analysis) and the subsequent studies showed little to no effect which dampened the research and people moved on to other paradigms like AMPAs.

Edited by alecnevsky, 12 April 2013 - 07:56 PM.

[hadora]

I get my paycheck today, can I still squeeze in?

Regarding NSI-189 the compound does not work orally. They (Neurostem) are looking for an oral solution. Until that happens I say wait with it. IDRA-21 is not that hard to synth and should provide amazing nootropic qualities.

what are you saying guy ? NSI 189 work perfectly orally, they are using NSI 189 phosphate in the clinical trial

where did you read that lol ?

NSI-189 has been shown to stimulate neurogenesis of human hippocampus-derived neural stem cells in-vitro and in vivo. In
healthy normal adult mice, NSI-189 stimulated neurogenesis in the hippocampus and significantly increased its volume, apparently
by increasing its synaptic network after 28 days of daily oral administration. In mouse models of depression, NSI-189 significantly
improved behavioral responses associated with depression. In humans, NSI-189 may reverse the human hippocampal atrophy
seen in MDD and other disorders and reverse their symptoms. This program has received significant support from both the
Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA)and the National Institutes of Health (NIH).

Edited by hadora, 12 April 2013 - 08:38 PM.

[sunshinefrost]

Just a side not but I wont be cashing checks till all are received and all can be accounted for (persons) which should be well before the end of next week.

ok we are all there, can the order be placed ? why do we need to wait untill end of next week ? it takes 6 to 8 weeks to be produced, won't we have enough time to sort it out ?

[megatron]

Just a side not but I wont be cashing checks till all are received and all can be accounted for (persons) which should be well before the end of next week.

ok we are all there, can the order be placed ? why do we need to wait untill end of next week ? it takes 6 to 8 weeks to be produced, won't we have enough time to sort it out ?

Second that!

Also, I read through the trials you supplied ScienceGuy. The results seem waaaaaaay too good to be true. If PRL 8-53 only turns out to have a fraction of the claimed results in that study, I'll be more than pleased. Let's hope for something like 10% increase.

Edited by Megatrone, 12 April 2013 - 08:40 PM.

[sparkk51]

After looking it over I think the best option for group buys for the future would be to use Chase quick pay.
https://www.chase.co...e/quickpay_faqs

This way money is taken directly from the bank account of the sender and deposited into the recipients. And similar to PayPal you can attach a note (address and user name) to provide ease with keeping/tracking who has paid there address, user name and such all in one place.

I asked you if I could do this, but you replied that I would need to send a $12 transfer fee. Have you found out no such fee is required?

Also, this only works with accounts in the U.S.

[mait]

After looking it over I think the best option for group buys for the future would be to use Chase quick pay.
https://www.chase.co...e/quickpay_faqs

This way money is taken directly from the bank account of the sender and deposited into the recipients. And similar to PayPal you can attach a note (address and user name) to provide ease with keeping/tracking who has paid there address, user name and such all in one place.

Am I getting it right that if I am from EU it wont work for me??? I mean Chase Quick pay - because as I tried to register myself the USA based address was required.

[telight]

I wonder if PRL-8-53 gets "interesting" at higher doses. According to the study it "causes partial inhibition of serotonin", maybe it is slightly psychedelic at higher doses. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can help? It has a low LD50. so a higher dose could be viable.

Though most psychedelic's do seem to have the inverse effect on working memory compared to PRL-8-53.

Edited by telight, 12 April 2013 - 09:21 PM.

[Cuttlefish33]

After looking it over I think the best option for group buys for the future would be to use Chase quick pay.
https://www.chase.co...e/quickpay_faqs

This way money is taken directly from the bank account of the sender and deposited into the recipients. And similar to PayPal you can attach a note (address and user name) to provide ease with keeping/tracking who has paid there address, user name and such all in one place.

Am I getting it right that if I am from EU it wont work for me??? I mean Chase Quick pay - because as I tried to register myself the USA based address was required.

Indeed, you are right, it only works for people living in the US apparently. Also, ONE of the parties MUST have a Chase account to use QuickPay; it doesn't matter whether it's the receiver or sender though.

[dare2winit]

What about something like this. It seems to fit the bill, I don't know if they have the same app for iOS though.

https://play.google.....cloveros&hl=en

Edit: Found this one too

https://play.google....mNvbS52ZW5tbyJd

And Amazon.com has a service too

https://payments.ama.../personal/money

Edited by dare2winit, 12 April 2013 - 09:33 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

nvm,

Edited by redan, 12 April 2013 - 09:48 PM.

[megatron]

I hope everyone here understands that when we find the groundbreaking nootropic(s), it's something that never can be released to the public. After all the hard work and dedication we've put down studying various drugs, why should the public get a free ride to ingeniousness? Also, the sole purpose of becoming more intelligent is that you get more intelligent than the people around you, right? I hope everyone understands this and doesn't go tell their friends first thing...

Edited by Megatrone, 13 April 2013 - 10:11 AM.

[renfr]

I hope everyone here understands that when we find the groundbreaking nootropic(s), it's something that never can be released to the public. After all the hard work and dedication we've put down studying various drugs, why should the public get a free ride to ingeniousness? Also, the sole purpose of becoming more intelligent is that you get more intelligent than the people around you, right? I hope everyone understands this and doesn't go tell their friends first thing...

Then in that case you should do a private research and patent it.
If everyone gets to know the effects of such molecules it's better for everyone as it will be even more known and prices will drop significantly, that's supply and demand.
Not everyone will get to know this, who knows piracetam really? Even piracetam is unknown to most of people.

Sadly we're not going to know much about the compound before someone gives it a try, one of the researchers (Nikolau R. Hansl) is now deceased : http://www.legacy.co...325#fbLoggedOut
His wife is called Adele which corresponds to the third researcher called Adele R. Hansl.
However the other one (Beverley T Mead) seems to be still alive but has retired :
http://www.healthgra...rley-mead-wc44n
They're both from Omaha so it's probably them who worked on that stuff, maybe someone in the US can contact Beverley T. Mead, we might get precious information from him.

Edited by renfr, 13 April 2013 - 10:50 AM.

[megatron]

So, you really don't care that everyone in your local town gets to know the revolutionizing compound? You only care about the price? Then why are you even here? The purpose of increasing ones intelligence is to become more intelligent than everyone else, but you obviously don't care about that. What good is it that everyone becomes more intelligent? Everything will stay the same then. Getting jobs, getting rich, stipends, doctorates will be just as hard then, because everyone is smarter!

[mait]

So, you really don't care that everyone in your local town gets to know the revolutionizing compound? You only care about the price? Then why are you even here? The purpose of increasing ones intelligence is to become more intelligent than everyone else, but you obviously don't care about that. What good is it that everyone becomes more intelligent? Everything will stay the same then. Getting jobs, getting rich, stipends, doctorates will be just as hard then, because everyone is smarter!

Look at the original study on PRL-8-53. It seems that the ones with lower baseline results were the ones who gained the most form taking this pharmacological agent. Yes, it may be related to the ceiling effect of the tests used in study as speculated by authors - ie the high achieving ones were already near max levels and there was not much room left to improve upon. But this may be also interpreted other way. The ones with high scoring ability in those tests were already operating at their optimum biochemical levels - so not much room to improve here and those who benefited the most were the ones who had been functioning out of the window of biochemical optimum. If the last hypothesis is correct the PRL-8-53 will be the great equalizer our modern society needs - the low skill jobs are scarcer by the day and new jobs are being created in new complex field that have high entrance barriers for "average Joe" because of high requirements of human intelligence related to complex tasks in those new jobs. If You can achieve the optimum biochemical functioning of Your brain without winning the gene lottery but instead by external pharmacological means it would be most welcoming change of all. Because You are no longer the victim and slave of Your genes and all You can set high goals as long as You have determination and drive to achieve them. That equates the ultimate self control and freedom in life to me. And I think that this freedom of heritable limitations is the essential part of being fee human being, which is undeniable right of every human walking on this planet. So I dont think the breakthroughs in field of nootropics should be kept hidden.

I myself have IQ around 100 and very very poor working memory (my max level at dual n back is 2 and I cant achieve the full score at level 3 even after training) and I really hope that this compound will help somewhat here.

Edited by mait, 13 April 2013 - 11:55 AM.

[megatron]

Well, testing these upcoming drugs with scarce information, we're potentially messing up our neurochemistry. Who knows about the long-term effects? We could possibly develop cancer, experience neurotoxicity and brain damage in the long run. And when we finally find a safe nootropic greatly enhancing cognitive skills, we should just give it to the public without further thinking? Apparently, we have a very different view on things... Also, the researchers in the study thought that the tests used were too easy for the more intelligent individuals, not that they in any way had achieved optimal neurochemistry.

Quoted from the study: "Only the subgroup of high achievers fails to show significant improvement across the board. It must be kept in mind, however, that it is near impossible to obtain significant improvement figures when the control performance is near perfect to begin with. To evaluate meaningfully the effect of PRL-8-53 for this subgroup, a more difficult test instrument will have to be used."

[mait]

Apparently, we have a very different view on things... Also, the researchers in the study thought that the tests used were too easy for the more intelligent individuals, not that they in any way had achieved optimal neurochemistry.

Quoted from the study: "Only the subgroup of high achievers fails to show significant improvement across the board. It must be kept in mind, however, that it is near impossible to obtain significant improvement figures when the control performance is near perfect to begin with. To evaluate meaningfully the effect of PRL-8-53 for this subgroup, a more difficult test instrument will have to be used."

Hei, I am totally agreeing with You here. I was trying to communicate the same idea before by describing the ceiling effect of the difficulty of tasks used. But I just went a little bit further to offer my own interpretation or hypothesis. And it was just idea or hypothesis - I have no experimental proof of that.

[dogshitwebsite]

IF everyone all around would get smarter suddenly by some chemical like this, which I can't see happening for a very very long time.
Wouldn't it just be good? just think about what the scientist could come up with next! working memory of 50 digits instead of the rumoured 22?? It's been said that we will reach a point where the evolution won't be the deciding factor of our development and "mutation" but rather WE, controlling our own evolution.

[Nattzor]

Well, testing these upcoming drugs with scarce information, we're potentially messing up our neurochemistry. Who knows about the long-term effects? We could possibly develop cancer, experience neurotoxicity and brain damage in the long run. And when we finally find a safe nootropic greatly enhancing cognitive skills, we should just give it to the public without further thinking? Apparently, we have a very different view on things... Also, the researchers in the study thought that the tests used were too easy for the more intelligent individuals, not that they in any way had achieved optimal neurochemistry.

Quoted from the study: "Only the subgroup of high achievers fails to show significant improvement across the board. It must be kept in mind, however, that it is near impossible to obtain significant improvement figures when the control performance is near perfect to begin with. To evaluate meaningfully the effect of PRL-8-53 for this subgroup, a more difficult test instrument will have to be used."

Realisticly, it wont have a bad-ass effect and even if it did, people would not take it. The only one who was going to take it was the already high-performers or those close to it. What you're suggesting is creating a new "elite" and making a bigger intellectual gap than what there is now.
I'd rather suggest that "we" would promote it and let more people use it, thus creating something much more fair and creating now possabilities for research on new noots and maybe helping researcher perform better (doubt it'll have that effect).

[Q did it!]

After looking it over I think the best option for group buys for the future would be to use Chase quick pay.
https://www.chase.co...e/quickpay_faqs

This way money is taken directly from the bank account of the sender and deposited into the recipients. And similar to PayPal you can attach a note (address and user name) to provide ease with keeping/tracking who has paid there address, user name and such all in one place.

I asked you if I could do this, but you replied that I would need to send a $12 transfer fee. Have you found out no such fee is required?

Also, this only works with accounts in the U.S.

Yes I looked around and found that there is no fee
But it will only work for US based participants. So paypal might have to be used in part or we would need to find something better.

[lostfalco]

So, I live in the Los Angeles area and I'm interested in buying from Novochemy as long as there is somebody near me to check for purity and to verify that we actually bought prl 8-53. I would be willing to give them some of the chemical in exchange for testing. Anybody live near me? Any takers? I think this would give us a good comparison with the group who is buying from other sources and it would be faster since I could place the order myself today.

[Reformed-Redan]

So, I live in the Los Angeles area and I'm interested in buying from Novochemy as long as there is somebody near me to check for purity and to verify that we actually bought prl 8-53. I would be willing to give them some of the chemical in exchange for testing. Anybody live near me? Any takers? I think this would give us a good comparison with the group who is buying from other sources and it would be faster since I could place the order myself today.

I live near you; but, don't have the means to test the compound. You can send the compound to user "Erebus", he said he would do a free testing of the compound. Although he needed 300mg to test it. He is located in Hong Kong.

[mait]

One question about our EU distributor. It was previously mentioned that the packages from USA will be sent out as l-cysteine. Is it the case also for our EU distributor? I have very wary customs at my home country and if the UK package marked PRL-8-53 would turn up it would be confiscated. I am asking this just to be sure.

[renfr]

If both you and the distributot are in the EU your package won't be checked.

If both you and the distributor are in the EU your package won't be checked.