50 replies to this topic

[mikey]

A warning

I suffer from generalized tendon and ligament damages all over my body after an adverse reaction to fluoroquinolones antibiotics. The worst of my articular issues though (because it is not healing but just steadily getting worse and worse even after a year) is patello-femoral cartilage damage. After reading this thread I started reseaching a little about DMSO... and a "cartilage DMSO" search yielded this study :

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9749514

Effect of dimethylsulfoxide on articular cartilage proteoglycan synthesis and degradation, chondrocyte viability, and matrix water content.


CONCLUSIONS:

DMSO, in relatively low concentration, is detrimental to articular cartilage PG synthesis in a time-dependent manner. Dehydration of the cartilage and chondrocyte death also occur with increasing time of DMSO exposure. Significant PG degradation occurs on the third day of culture with daily DMSO exposure.
CLINICAL RELEVANCE:

As a joint lavage solution, DMSO has potentially deleterious effects on the metabolism of chondrocytes.

Needless to say, Im not going to apply DMSO on my pre-arthitic knees...

That's completely the opposite effect that was documented by MRI to have happened to my Achilles tendon and three ligaments in my foot. Four months of two-to-three times daily application of DMSO and they healed without immobilization, which my surgeon, Dr. Robert Joseph in LA said was considered to be medically impossible. He said, "But the MRI shows that they are healed and you can quote me on that."

Sounds like they need to do a longer term study. Perhaps there is a rebound effect that causes tendon and ligament recovery. Although I loathe the smell effect from DMSO, a powerlifter friend recently referred my to this site:
http://www.dmso-use....z_solution.html
Telling me that it produces no odor because it is so pure. I bought some and stuck it in the fridge for emergencies, but I have yet to try it out so I can't really vouch for his claim. (Honestly, the website looks a little 1990's - ish)

No. There have been hundreds of DMSO studies conducted. You might read http://www.dmso.org/...ation/jacob.htm

DMSO is well documented to heal connective tissue injuries. Go to any race horse stable in the world and ask them what they do when a million-dollar horse starts limping.

DMSO is widely used to treat tendinitis where race horses are cared for. And horses don't respond to placebos.

Vets know it works and saves animals from euthanasia.

To read about DMSO's use with race horses, see "[url="http://It%20is%20widely%20used%20to%20treat%20tendinitis%20where%20multi-million%20dollar%20race%20horses%20are%20cared%20for.%20And%20horses%20don't%20respond%20to%20placebos.%20Vets%20know%20it%20works%20and%20saves%20animals%20from%20euthanasia,%20which%20saves%20money.%20To%20read%20about%20DMSO's%20use%20with%20race%20horses,%20Google%20"Western%20Horseman%20magazine%20April,%201996%20DMSO.""]Western Horseman magazine April, 1996 DMSO[/url]."

The two best (cheapest) places to buy DMSO are DMSO.net - I buy their 99.9% liquid and their 70/30 (30% aloe) gel for milder problems.

...and then from DMSO.com - I buy their 90% gel for acute problems. Their prices for the 99.9% liquid are higher than .net's.

I didn't know there were gels when I treated the torn ligaments and Achilles, so I just rubbed the liquid on with cotton swabs.

The gels are way easier to work with.

I've had friends who had migraines rub DMSO where it hurts and the migraine is gone in a few minutes.

[zorba990]

Telling me that it produces no odor because it is so pure. I bought some and stuck it in the fridge for emergencies, but I have yet to try it out so I can't really vouch for his claim. (Honestly, the website looks a little 1990's - ish)

I bought Jacobs DMSO from Swansons VItamins. Very pure and it doesn't smell as bad as I remember from the '80's. But, I still got a bad breath problem that I cured with a mL of limonene poured on a small piece of bread. Limonene is a strong cleaning agent. I cleaned wax from my skis with it. I had bad luck dyeing my leather couch, when industrial alcohol failed to remove all the oils causing the dye to cover unevenly. I cleaned the couch with limonene. Because limonene is a little oily, I then used Kamchatka vodka to remove the slightly oily trace of limonene. The 25 year old leather couch looks very good now. I am a little off subject, but I got a good EBay price on a quart of food grade organic limonene, enough for over a year's worth of cleaning around the house. Breath freshener and amazing cleaner - all in one.

I have a gallon of limonene. I've used it for lots of things including killing ants and fleas. I've used it as a solvent to make liposomal TRes but I haven't used it for that in a while.

I seriously doubt drinking it is going to stop the DMSO armpit odor. What would be the mechanism of action?

[david ellis]

I have a gallon of limonene. I've used it for lots of things including killing ants and fleas. I've used it as a solvent to make liposomal TRes but I haven't used it for that in a while.

I seriously doubt drinking it is going to stop the DMSO armpit odor. What would be the mechanism of action?

I have never had DMSO armpit odor, so I don't know if it stops body odor. My wife has a very sensitive nose and is not shy about telling me what needs to be corrected. I don't know the cause of action. There is a previous post in this thread recommending limonene in this thread with links. The poster complained about not getting enough attention, but he did get mine. I thought I would try it and he was right.and it did work . My wife noticed every time I forgot to use the limonene.

I should have been more clear about how to use it. Drinking it would be a big mistake. D'limonene is very strong. And I was careless about dose. 1 mL is a lot, Now that I think about i I think it was about 20% of a mL. Soaked into a piece of bread the limonene did not cause me any distress.

[zorba990]

I have a gallon of limonene. I've used it for lots of things including killing ants and fleas. I've used it as a solvent to make liposomal TRes but I haven't used it for that in a while.

I seriously doubt drinking it is going to stop the DMSO armpit odor. What would be the mechanism of action?

I have never had DMSO armpit odor, so I don't know if it stops body odor. My wife has a very sensitive nose and is not shy about telling me what needs to be corrected. I don't know the cause of action. There is a previous post in this thread recommending limonene in this thread with links. The poster complained about not getting enough attention, but he did get mine. I thought I would try it and he was right.and it did work . My wife noticed every time I forgot to use the limonene.

I should have been more clear about how to use it. Drinking it would be a big mistake. D'limonene is very strong. And I was careless about dose. 1 mL is a lot, Now that I think about i I think it was about 20% of a mL. Soaked into a piece of bread the limonene did not cause me any distress.

I've ingested a dropper full (about 25ml I think) several times with 1000mg resveratrol and 1T Lecithin that has been sonicated. Other than mild orange burping there were no side effects. I think limonene is fairly benign, but since it is such a strong solvent there may be a cumulative effect of ingesting it regularly. Although Life Extension Foundation seems ot think it's safe enough to recommend as a reflux treatment and method of consuming CoQ10 regularly.

[david ellis]

I've ingested a dropper full (about 25ml I think) several times with 1000mg resveratrol and 1T Lecithin that has been sonicated. Other than mild orange burping there were no side effects. I think limonene is fairly benign, but since it is such a strong solvent there may be a cumulative effect of ingesting it regularly. Although Life Extension Foundation seems ot think it's safe enough to recommend as a reflux treatment and method of consuming CoQ10 regularly.

If you mixed the limonene with the resveratrol and lecithin - I am not surprised. That would be the same thing as my suggestion to use bread to buffer the limonene. A medical dropper is 1mL(20 drops). I measured 20% of a mL (there are 4 marks between the mL marks) on the 3 mL syringe. The high purity limonene was like 190 proof alcohol except being orangey, I regretted it immediately.

[mikey]

I am curious to know if there are any studies showing that DMSO works, or if there are some papers explaining how it would work.

But we are now well off topic for this thread. Can we create a new thread for this, move all the DMSO messages there, and perhaps someone will also answer my queries above?

The book, DMSO: Nature's Healer, by Walker, has an extensive reference section.

[Logic]

I have a gallon of limonene. I've used it for lots of things including killing ants and fleas. I've used it as a solvent to make liposomal TRes but I haven't used it for that in a while.

I seriously doubt drinking it is going to stop the DMSO armpit odor. What would be the mechanism of action?

I have never had DMSO armpit odor, so I don't know if it stops body odor. My wife has a very sensitive nose and is not shy about telling me what needs to be corrected. I don't know the cause of action. There is a previous post in this thread recommending limonene in this thread with links. The poster complained about not getting enough attention, but he did get mine. I thought I would try it and he was right.and it did work . My wife noticed every time I forgot to use the limonene.

That would be me.

Im glad the recomendation worked; It certainly seemed worth trying. It seems I was just impatient to see the idea tried.
I dont have tendon issues and have only just found a local suppler here in SA.

I'm sure DMSO will become more popular now.
So far it looks to be damn good stuff!

[ceridwen]

Is it found in Orange oil?

[ironfistx]

A while back I bought some DMSO for tendonitis but didn't use it because I was afraid.  I have googled it but never found any studies suggesting that it worked.  My finger has been hurting and I was wondering if I should use some.

[Turnbuckle]

A while back I bought some DMSO for tendonitis but didn't use it because I was afraid.  I have googled it but never found any studies suggesting that it worked.  My finger has been hurting and I was wondering if I should use some.

 

In my experience, DMSO helps in the acute phase of an injury, where quenching free radicals will help. Wait too long, though, and it's useless as the damage has been done.

[Yon Mok]

I read in one of the dsmo forums that adding peppermint oil had worked, also storing it in the fridge had a diminishing effect on the smell.

[aconita]

Add urea and no more garlic smell plus better absorption plus less skin irritation.

[mikey]

 

A while back I bought some DMSO for tendonitis but didn't use it because I was afraid.  I have googled it but never found any studies suggesting that it worked.  My finger has been hurting and I was wondering if I should use some.

 

In my experience, DMSO helps in the acute phase of an injury, where quenching free radicals will help. Wait too long, though, and it's useless as the damage has been done.

 

 

That is the opposite of my experience, Turnbuckle.

 

My Achilles tendon and ligaments were torn for 3 years.

 

I tried everything and was about to allow surgery when DMSO healed them.

[mikey]

Add urea and no more garlic smell plus better absorption plus less skin irritation.

 

Thank you, aconita. I will try that, as I continue to use DMSO regularly. 

 

It is a "magical" part of my healing arsenal, as well as being the same for a number of the young guys that I've done MMA with - that I turned on to DMSO.

Add urea and no more garlic smell plus better absorption plus less skin irritation.

 

Where do you the urea?

[aconita]

Where do you the urea?

 

Do you mean where to buy urea?

 

On eBay you'll find quite a lot of options, avoid fertilizer grade and aim for cosmetic or pharma grade.

 

It is dirty cheap and quite useful for skin care too.

 

You can search for "DMSO urea patent" and find some interesting things, this is just an example:

 

http://www.dmsorollo.../uspatent1.html

 

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

A while back I bought some DMSO for tendonitis but didn't use it because I was afraid.  I have googled it but never found any studies suggesting that it worked.  My finger has been hurting and I was wondering if I should use some.

 

In my experience, DMSO helps in the acute phase of an injury, where quenching free radicals will help. Wait too long, though, and it's useless as the damage has been done.

 

 

That is the opposite of my experience, Turnbuckle.

 

My Achilles tendon and ligaments were torn for 3 years.

 

I tried everything and was about to allow surgery when DMSO healed them.

 

 

 

All right then. It's been quite effective for me for minor injuries such as smashed fingers, but if I wait too long, my finger looks bruised and the healing is much slower, while if I apply it immediately--within a few minutes--it's generally good as new the next day. The number of incidents is low, but my wife has seen the same pattern over the years. As for the Achilles tendon, I have no personal experience with that so I can't speak to it. It's possible that the injury is continually ongoing and thus is always part acute and thus DMSO promotes healing by eliminating swelling, thus allowing the self-repair to proceed. However, studies in mice suggests that one should be careful when using it, as it at least temporarily weakens the tendon--

 

 

Dimethyl sulfoxide. Biomechanical effects on tendons.

 

Abstract

Forty-eight mice were treated for 12 time periods from 0 days through 28 days at 24-hour intervals by rinsing the skin area of the Achilles tendon of each hindleg with 100 microliters of a solution of 70% drug grade dimethyl sulfoxide in 30% sterile water. After the treatment period the mice were killed and the Achilles tendons were subjected to separation force analysis to determine tensile strength. The mean separation force was shown to be a function of the treatment period (P = 0.0294) with a significant linear component (P = 0.0049), a significant quadratic component (P = 0.0036), and a significant cubic component (P = 0.0049). The model identified an initial area of decreasing mean separation force (0 to 7 days), an area of increasing mean separation force (7 to 22 days), and a subsequent area of decreasing mean separation force (22 to 28 days). The maximum decrease in the group mean separation force was 20.2% and was observed in the 7-day treatment group. The clinical significance of the results of this study was that the topical application of dimethyl sulfoxide was associated with periods of decreased mean separation forces in tendons. The avoidance of vigorous muscular activity is recommended during therapy with dimethyl sulfoxide.

 

the http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7114353

 

[mikey]

'daouda', on 25 Sept 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

A warning

I suffer from generalized tendon and ligament damages all over my body after an adverse reaction to fluoroquinolones antibiotics. The worst of my articular issues though (because it is not healing but just steadily getting worse and worse even after a year) is patello-femoral cartilage damage. After reading this thread I started reseaching a little about DMSO... and a "cartilage DMSO" search yielded this study :

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9749514

 

Effect of dimethylsulfoxide on articular cartilage proteoglycan synthesis and degradation, chondrocyte viability, and matrix water content.


CONCLUSIONS:

DMSO, in relatively low concentration, is detrimental to articular cartilage PG synthesis in a time-dependent manner. Dehydration of the cartilage and chondrocyte death also occur with increasing time of DMSO exposure. Significant PG degradation occurs on the third day of culture with daily DMSO exposure.
CLINICAL RELEVANCE:

As a joint lavage solution, DMSO has potentially deleterious effects on the metabolism of chondrocytes.

 

That study was an in vitro study. There have been many in vivo studies that showed safety.

[mikey]

 

Where do you the urea?

 

Do you mean where to buy urea?

 

On eBay you'll find quite a lot of options, avoid fertilizer grade and aim for cosmetic or pharma grade.

 

It is dirty cheap and quite useful for skin care too.

 

You can search for "DMSO urea patent" and find some interesting things, this is just an example:

 

http://www.dmsorollo.../uspatent1.html

 

 

All I found on EBAY was 

Urea Ultra-Pure (99.9%) Fine Prills 3 Oz SHIPS FAST from USA for $6.95, not cheap.
 

Do you know a direct URL of dirt cheap  cosmetic or pharma grade and thank you?

[aconita]

3OZ goes a long way since you don't need much of it in your DMSO and DMSO itself doesn't need to be used in big amounts.

 

Consider that DMSO with urea is quite more effective than DMSO alone therefore treatments require less of it and for less time.

 

Since I am in Europe my suppliers are probably not going to be very economically for you because of shipping costs.

 

The urea you linked is OK as far as quality is concerned.

 

 

[mikey]

3OZ goes a long way since you don't need much of it in your DMSO and DMSO itself doesn't need to be used in big amounts.

 

Consider that DMSO with urea is quite more effective than DMSO alone therefore treatments require less of it and for less time.

 

Since I am in Europe my suppliers are probably not going to be very economically for you because of shipping costs.

 

The urea you linked is OK as far as quality is concerned.

 

Thank you, again, aconita!

 

What ratio of DMSO to urea do you find to be optimal?

[aconita]

This patent gives you many different formulations for different goals:

 

https://www.google.c...tents/US4296104

 

I found that urea percentage is not very critical, the only thing is when urea is too much it will not dissolve completely, just add a bit more DMSO until fully dissolved.

 

A trick is to add water last since adding water to DMSO develops heat which will help to speed up urea to dissolve.

 

One formulation I personally enjoy for general purposes is something like:

 

62g DMSO

16g urea

8g water

8g MSM

3g NaCl (table salt)

3g panthenol

 

As you certainly know already 90% DMSO penetrates better than 100% (the 8g of water yields about 90%DMSO).

 

I like this too as a gel (more as hyaluronic acid gel than DMSO):

 

200g water

60g DMSO

16g urea

8g MSM

3g salt

3g panthenol

3g hyaluronic acid about 400KDa (or a mix of 400KDa and 1000KDa)

8 drops SSKI

 

By the way, did you know that a paste of DMSO and a crushed aspirin applied to warts is effective in removal?

 

I would certainly recommend the first formulation instead of pure DMSO since I bet it would be even more effective (probably salicylic acid instead of aspirin would be better too... maybe a bit too strong).